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View Full Version : Thinking of outclimbing a Spitfire25 in your Bf-109K4? Think again!



DKoor
05-27-2008, 07:08 PM
You may fail the contest! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
I checked some stuff and run across this chart I made long time ago.

http://i26.tinypic.com/2uz9i.jpg

Best climbing speed values used for Bf-109K4 266km/h, for Spit25 248km/h IAS.
Starting from runway. Y axis are seconds.

DKoor
05-27-2008, 07:08 PM
You may fail the contest! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
I checked some stuff and run across this chart I made long time ago.

http://i26.tinypic.com/2uz9i.jpg

Best climbing speed values used for Bf-109K4 266km/h, for Spit25 248km/h IAS.
Starting from runway. Y axis are seconds.

M_Gunz
05-27-2008, 08:06 PM
Try with both doing 400kph IAS or whatever speed you would use in combat.

Capt.LoneRanger
05-28-2008, 01:31 AM
109s are faster with fully opened rads? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

DKoor
05-28-2008, 01:50 AM
No mate, lower value on the chart is better! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Bar value represents time in seconds that a particular airplane used to get to specific altitude at the best IAS climbing speed... therefore Bf-109K4 with closed rads for instance is faster than a Spitfire 17 seconds up to 5,000m, and 125 seconds up to 10,000m.

Capt.LoneRanger
05-28-2008, 02:21 AM
Ahaaaa =)

It rather looked like topspeeds on the first glance. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blush.gif

Klemm.co
05-28-2008, 03:39 AM
But of course you can't climb the Bf-109K with closed rads for 610 seconds or 10 minutes and 10 seconds on maximum output... or can you?

DKoor
05-28-2008, 04:34 AM
<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
TYPE ALTITUDE (m) LOADOUT MAX. OVERHEAT TIME (sec)
Bf-109E4 SL default 286
Bf-109E7Z SL default 285
Bf-109F2 SL default 284
Bf-109G2 SL default 286
Bf-109G6AS SL default 407
Bf-109G10 SL default 305
Bf-109G14 SL default 406
Bf-109K4 SL default 406
Bf-109K4-C3 SL default 403
Bf-110C4/B SL default 285
</pre>

These are Bf-109 series max values of time in overheat (in sec.) in level flight. Tolerance of figures are few seconds max.

DKoor
05-28-2008, 04:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Klemm.co:
But of course you can't climb the Bf-109K with closed rads for 610 seconds or 10 minutes and 10 seconds on maximum output... or can you? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>So in a way you are right. 109 can climb safely with closed rads somewhere up to 6,500m.

I'm also pointing out the fact that you gain nothing by opening the rads in Bf-109K4... to support this I offer a simple fact - Bf-109K4 engine with open rads in level flight @ SL dies in 405 sec. and achieves the speed of 566km/h. With closed rads it achieves 587km/h.
Math is simple http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .

Klemm.co
05-28-2008, 04:59 AM
DKoor, thanks for the info and the overheat table.
I think i'm gonna print that out.

And do you mean that the 109K-4 engine starts to creak after 405 seconds or that it stops dead then? And after what time does the engine die with closed rads at SL and at best speed alt?
Of course i could test it myself, but right now my comp is a bit buggy, so i'll have to upgrade it a bit before doing any IL-2 again.

And i remember that you or someone else did such an overheat table on all A/C some time ago, do you have a link to that?

TgD Thunderbolt56
05-28-2008, 06:45 AM
If that data is from a long time ago, you might want to recheck it. The Spit25lb isn't the ride it used to be. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

DKoor
05-28-2008, 06:50 AM
V4.08.
All above info http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif .

mortoma
05-28-2008, 08:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DKoor:
<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
TYPE ALT ORDNANCE MAX OVERHEAT TIME
Bf-109E4 SL default 286
Bf-109E4* 5000 default 286
Bf-109E7Z SL default 285
Bf-109E7Z* 6000 default 284
Bf-109G10 SL default 305
Bf-109G10* 7500 default 305
Bf-109G14 SL default 406
Bf-109G14* 6000 default 405
Bf-109G2 SL default 286
Bf-109G2* 7000 default 288
Bf-109G6AS SL default 407
Bf-109G6AS* 6000 default 405
Bf-109K4 SL default 406
Bf-109K4* 6700 default 403
Bf-109K4-C3 SL default 403
Bf-109K4-C3 5900 default 404
</pre>

These are Bf-109 series max values of time in overheat (in sec.) in level flight. Tolerance of figures are few seconds max. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Where are the F models? Did we forget something?

PF_Coastie
05-28-2008, 10:08 AM
I don't get the title. The K4 obviously outclasses the Spit25lb in climb. So you open the Rad and chop the throttle for 5 seconds and start the overheat timer over. You lose almost nothing.

DKoor
05-28-2008, 11:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mortoma:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DKoor:
<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
TYPE ALT ORDNANCE MAX OVERHEAT TIME
Bf-109E4 SL default 286
Bf-109E4* 5000 default 286
Bf-109E7Z SL default 285
Bf-109E7Z* 6000 default 284
Bf-109G10 SL default 305
Bf-109G10* 7500 default 305
Bf-109G14 SL default 406
Bf-109G14* 6000 default 405
Bf-109G2 SL default 286
Bf-109G2* 7000 default 288
Bf-109G6AS SL default 407
Bf-109G6AS* 6000 default 405
Bf-109K4 SL default 406
Bf-109K4* 6700 default 403
Bf-109K4-C3 SL default 403
Bf-109K4-C3 5900 default 404
</pre>

These are Bf-109 series max values of time in overheat (in sec.) in level flight. Tolerance of figures are few seconds max. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Where are the F models? Did we forget something? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>It's simple. I haven't tested them http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif .

stalkervision
05-28-2008, 12:45 PM
Dkoor a one time 'chart monkey" Who'd a thought? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Glad to see long ago in a galaxy far far away that you came over to the silly side of the force buddy. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Hence forth you shall be called "Darth Silly-ist" DKoor" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

DKoor
05-31-2008, 01:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stalkervision:
Dkoor a one time 'chart monkey" Who'd a thought? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Glad to see long ago in a galaxy far far away that you came over to the silly side of the force buddy. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Hence forth you shall be called "Darth Silly-ist" DKoor" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE> http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

And yes... I tested Bf-109F2, it seems to have 284sec in overheat, the usual Emil figure... I have no reason to believe that F4 is anything different in this regard (in spite of having different engine).
I'll eventually test the F4 too http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .

Pirschjaeger
05-31-2008, 07:06 AM
DKoor,

nice charts. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Which map did you use? Would the results be different if you used a summer or winter map? I'm curious if environmental conditions, such as temperature, would have any effect on the results.

DKoor
05-31-2008, 12:46 PM
Crimea map.
All other things in that recommended 'testy' environments... 12oc, weather clear, default armament, 100% fuel, 'realistic' physic conditions http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif .

Yes if you conduct the tests under other maps you'd get other results, but apparently Crimea map is some kind of IL2 test etalon.

Choctaw111
05-31-2008, 12:59 PM
This thread has some good info.

Pirschjaeger
06-01-2008, 02:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DKoor:
Crimea map.
All other things in that recommended 'testy' environments... 12oc, weather clear, default armament, 100% fuel, 'realistic' physic conditions http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif .

Yes if you conduct the tests under other maps you'd get other results, but apparently Crimea map is some kind of IL2 test etalon. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cool http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

I usually fly the 109 so I like the Moscow map (offline). It doesn't seem to overheat as much as if I use other maps.

You've confirmed my idea. Thanks.

DKoor
06-01-2008, 03:19 AM
No prob http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ... for instance if you fly on Moscow map, you could actually expect better results regarding overheat, while flying on desert map have exactly the opposite effect.
Although I never really tried, speeds are probably the same on all maps, and even if not the same I believe they are under low tolerance from default Crimea ones.

Pirschjaeger
06-01-2008, 03:28 AM
Tropi maps are my worst nightmare. Not only does my built-for-arctic-exploration 109 overheat, but the palm trees kill my vid-card. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I wish I didn't have these problems since my fav skin for the 109 is the Tropi. Somehow it just looks out of place over the Moscow as if I made a wrong turn in Libya.

"What the hell! Stay on leader's course!" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Moscow is always my first choice.

DKoor
06-01-2008, 03:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
"What the hell! Stay on leader's course!" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE> http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif