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View Full Version : Combat similar to the first Revelations trailer -- good or bad?



Rakudaton
12-20-2011, 08:52 AM
Howdy all!

I'm sure everyone remembers the epic E3 trailer of Revelations (and the epic Tobuscus literal, of course). Anyway, much of said epic-ness came from the combat, which was pretty awesome. Of course, the combat in the game didn't entirely reflect that -- I mean, it was good, but nowhere near THAT good.

So, my question is: For AC III (or any future AC game), would you want to see combat closer to what we saw in that trailer?

You've probably guessed that my answer is a resounding "yes" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif The fluidity, confidence, and speed of the attacks really took it a level above anything else I've seen. Being generally bored, I had a thought about a potential control scheme for this:

MAIN CONTROLS

Head Button: Attack with ranged weapon
Weapon Hand (tap): Attack with main weapon
Weapon Hand (hold): Throw main weapon
Empty Hand (tap): Attack with second hidden blade
Empty Hand (hold): Grab enemy
Legs (tap): Kick enemy
Legs (hold): Quick step

[WHILE IN HIGH PROFILE]

Head Button: Counter shoot (automatically target and shoot any enemy currently aiming at you)
Weapon Hand: Counter kill
Empty Hand: Counter Disarm (When grabbed: counter grab)
Legs Button: Dodge

[WHILE IN EXECUTION STREAK]

Head Button + direction: Disarm enemy (ranged weapon)
Weapon Hand + direction: Execute enemy
Empty Hand + direction: Disarm enemy (combat weapon)
Legs + direction: Move past enemy (e.g. roll over their back; kick them in the face etc)


^^^ Well this is just a thought, but it seems to me this could make combat a lot better and more fluid. Just imagine:

-- You attack an enemy with the short blade, before finishing them off with the hidden blade in your off hand
-- You then throw the short blade through an enemy
-- You vault over an enemy, kicking them in the face and knocking them down
-- You disarm another one, using their weapon to counter an incoming attack from behind
-- An enemy takes aim to shoot you; you quickly disarm another's ranged weapon and counter shoot
-- Etc

Thoughts? Suggestions? Deep philosophical observations about the human condition?

Assassin_M
12-20-2011, 08:55 AM
I just read the topic and i was like http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif
Then I remembered, so I was like http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

playassassins1
12-20-2011, 09:12 AM
I think the idea is very awesome. But i don't know what the Devs are gonna think about that.

ProdiGurl
12-20-2011, 09:40 AM
I love the Vaulting approach over their back & a face kick - (probably why I loved the hookblade's hook & run capability so much).

that Trailer combat was just beauty in motion
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Sarari
12-20-2011, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by ProdiGurl:
I love the Vaulting approach over their back & a face kick - (probably why I loved the hookblade's hook & run capability so much).

that Trailer combat was just beauty in motion
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif
I agree with you on the hook and run. I only liked it because it looked like the trailer lol.

If they made combat like that, I think I would crap my pants. It would be the best combat game ever.

xCr0wnedNorris
12-20-2011, 06:49 PM
Sounds good. I'd like it if they went this way with the combat. I've always liked games where the combat was very fluid.

agitatedchimp
12-20-2011, 07:27 PM
I actually think it would be better if the 'kick' and 'quick step' inputs would be swapped around (Hold/Tap) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Sarari
12-20-2011, 07:39 PM
I think it would be very complicated at first but I would still love it no matter what. And I agree with Norris, fluid combat (and fluid over all in everything) is great in games.

I think the best part of it though is the constant fighting that will keep you on your feet lol.

value_zero
12-20-2011, 08:15 PM
I just want to bind the keys for a specific action, im tired using one button for 40 things at once.

naran6142
12-20-2011, 10:15 PM
yes!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

im on board for this

being able to fight like in the ACR E3 trailer would be awesome, i want the next ancestor to be more fluid and able to do more acrobatic move in combat as well as free running

BK-110
12-21-2011, 02:29 AM
That sounds fantastic. It would make the combat so much more fluid and intuitive. But enemies would have to be that much more difficult. They should certainly be more aggressive. I doubt that they're gonna change combat that much, though...

ProdiGurl
12-21-2011, 03:00 AM
But enemies would have to be that much more difficult
Yep, back to this same issue - combat difficulty/ ease.

If you look at the Trailer, it's Easy for Ezio to take them down one by one... nobody was a problem for him, he just lost his focus when he saw Altair.
When AC allows that Trailer combat for us, fans will complain it's too easy. Similar to the Kill Streak - it's beautiful but... it made it easier.

So which is it, fluidity or difficulty. You might get one good move in (roll over their back) & attempt the rest of the chain, but a challenging guard would be able to stop the motion.

I don't know how Ubi is supposed to give us both?

Inorganic9_2
12-21-2011, 03:24 AM
Counter shoot is a great idea! I find it so irritating when a rifleman or crossbowman gets into the fight too; Ezio seems to have massive trouble attacking them with any other type of enemy around, whether it's with throwing knives, gun, sword, hidden blade, whatever. Counter shoot would solve this.

Edit:
Also, did anyone notice that, in the first gameplay trailer, Ezio was able to grab his enemies' attacks during fights and force their own weapons into their throats. What happened to this move?

InfectedNation
12-21-2011, 04:11 AM
Originally posted by Inorganic9_2:
Also, did anyone notice that, in the first gameplay trailer, Ezio was able to grab his enemies' attacks during fights and force their own weapons into their throats. What happened to this move?

I think that was just for Stalkers.

rob.davies2014
12-21-2011, 04:48 AM
I think it's an amazing idea. This would greatly improve combat but it may make combat to easy. So to counter this they should make the guards a lot more tactical and difficult to kill and they should make the time with which you have to press the buttons very short, so that you have to be very precise with your timings.

killzab
12-21-2011, 04:52 AM
You know, if they just copy & pasted Batman AC's fighting system, the fights could look exactly like the trailer...

Sarari
12-21-2011, 05:57 AM
@ProdiGurl They'll only say it's difficult if they only take on 4 guards using that combat mode. If they got an army and did it, it would be as entertaining as the trailer.

But here's the thing, (and this goes out to everybody who thought the combat was easy). The reason the combat looked easy was because in every kill streak (not counting the Janissaries) the guards would just lift their arms or do something stupid that would make themselves vulnerable.

But in the trailer, they all had their guard up and he still got them which made it actually look like you needed skill (which of course you do need).

ProdiGurl
12-21-2011, 06:08 AM
@ProdiGurl They'll only say it's difficult if they only take on 4 guards using that combat mode. If they got an army and did it, it would be as entertaining as the trailer.

Right, and that's where some of our wishes come into play - some of us just want a few areas of mass carnage with a horde. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

How fun is it to let loose like that & it would look really kool.
Plus, it's kinda like zombies - 4 or 5 zombies slowly coming at you isn't too big a problem to handle.
But the more there are, the harder it is (or should be anyway).

I'm really hoping Ubi offers choice of Difficulty & solves some of the issue.

SolidSage
12-21-2011, 02:29 PM
I'm a YES for this too http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif Dunno about the exact button configs, but the aporoach is solid. More depth and skill in combat, more fluidity for the Masters without making it easy across the board.
Good ideas.

Human Condition:
Humanity places too many expectations on one another. If I do not fullfill YOUR expectations of ME, surely the fail is in YOUR EXPECTATION.
Either way, I'ma do my thing. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Inorganic9_2
12-21-2011, 03:43 PM
I still think they need to extend the Cesare/janissary-style combat to lower-ranked guards. Kill streaks shouldn't always work for higher-ranked guards.

LightRey
12-21-2011, 05:01 PM
Originally posted by InfectedNation:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Inorganic9_2:
Also, did anyone notice that, in the first gameplay trailer, Ezio was able to grab his enemies' attacks during fights and force their own weapons into their throats. What happened to this move?

I think that was just for Stalkers. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yeah, that was a stalker-only move.

wolve67
12-21-2011, 05:18 PM
i was thinking great idea, but what would also be cool is if you used your left and right analog sticks to control the arms, then hit square (x) for left hand and circle (B) for right hand meh i don't know might bee cool like your idea a lot though, and would totally solve that issue of the jannisarries aiming at you while in a combo streak maybe when they block there can be a counter block keep counter blocking tell the target dies, would totally be awesome

Cornik22
12-22-2011, 06:30 AM
What killzab said. A combat system like the one in the E3 trailer does exist... it's called Batman: Arkham City, and it's my favorite ever. With a system like that, involving harder enemies and amazing moves like double and triple counter attacks simultaneously, the next AC would be a huge improvement in the series.

ProdiGurl
12-22-2011, 06:45 AM
I haven't played Ark City yet, only Ark Asylum -
but I think they semi achieved this with the Kill Streak (assassin style).
?

DavisP92
12-23-2011, 07:05 AM
i remember i was thinking about that a while back, I would love to see AC combat like that. I hope Ubisoft sees your post

InfectedNation
12-23-2011, 11:27 AM
If they added features from the Arkham games to combat and takedowns I think I'd enjoy it even more - but their combat system is far from perfect too.

But one thing I would love to see in AC3 with the new ancestor is silent takedowns similar to Batman games.

SolidSage
12-23-2011, 01:34 PM
BAC combat is a lot of fun but I wouldn't like to see AC combat go that route, it's just not organic enough. You tap a button and Bats goes into massive combos bouncing over great distances like, well, a cartoon/comic book character.
It's great fun but AC, in spite of ACR's OTT executions has always felt a bit more real than that.
BAC Combat requires skill but I can't help but liken it to Guitar Hero (from what I've seen), like, rythmically pressing button combinations. AC has always felt more fluid than that to me. I think the OP works tweaks into AC system, rather than overlaying it with one from another game....no matter how similar they are.

Again, BAC combat? Mad fun http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif But keeping them different is my vote, instead of two games with combat so similar that you would really only need to play one of them.

DavisP92
12-27-2011, 09:45 AM
this is really a good idea for combat, hopefully the dev. team will see it

NoirEvil
12-28-2011, 02:19 AM
This thread is what Assassin's Creed's combat should have evolved to ages ago. The cinematic trailers for AC are amazing and generate arguably the most hype for each game, but I have got to say that the in game combat has never really stacked up. What we need is instead of having killstreaks (I never knew that the key to sword-fighting in the renaissance was kicking someone in their genitals, killing them and then getting "genital power" allowing you to somehow kill each remaining guard in one hit) we need a more dynamic, fluid fighting system with varying, more aggressive enemy archetypes that turn the fight into a fluid Assassin ballet that still manages to look plausible (and awesome). http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

By making the enemies more aggressive and able to use the same moves you use against them, balancing out the weapons eg:
-Short blades do medium damage, are faster and are really effective with counters,
-Hidden blades are weak and have a small counter time but instant kill in counters and instant kill when the guards leave their guard down, are facing the opposite way, are on the ground, cover their face, are yelling or have their defense broken,
-Swords do more damage and have a big counter time but are slower...etc
and also by adding more features you could have the fluidity and excitement of the cinematic trailers.

Adding some features from AC1 such as the being able to interact in the counters (pressing the attack button again sometimes on a nonlethal counter turns it into a kill), combo kills (pressing the attack button at the right time kills enemies with a finishing animation almost immediately) and the defense break instead of the kick (which is done by quickstepping forward and pressing the attack button which hits the guard's weapon out of the way, which they can also dodge). Also ubisoft should make the animations more fluid so it doesn't look like the enemies are just standing their waiting for a sword through the neck (I'm looking at you brotherhood enemy killstreak animations). Fast different dodge moves would add to the experience as well such as the player character stepping out of the way of a sword strike or ducking under one.

If ubisoft incorporated all this you could all have scenes such as this:

You are surrounded by ten guards. You immediately do a quick step and break the defense of the first guard with your sword then in one single motion follow by pouncing on him while his guard is down and finishing them with your hidden blade. As you do this two other guards both attempt to attack you from opposite sides, you counter the first and stab him through the stomach then (still with your sword inside the other guard) counter the second and slash this throat with your hidden blade. You see a crossbowman as the two previous guards drop to the floor so you grab a nearby enemy and use him as a human shield, the crossbowman fires and kills the guard, you release him pulling his sword out of his scabbard as you let go and seamlessly counter an enemy who was just slashing at you. Dropping the weapon, you throw a throwing knife back at the crossbowman while ducking an axe slash from a brute, vaulting over the brute and unsheathing your sword. You attack the leader guard in his shiny armor but he counters and kicks you to the floor. A guard grabs you and holds you so the brute can attack you but you hold the thumbstick back and press attack which elbows the guard in the stomach causing him to release you, so you can then dodge out of the way of the brute and let the brute accidentally kill the guard. The leader guard screams for reinforcements and lets his guard down so you pounce on him with the hidden blade and directly after killing, spin and tackle the brute assassinating him with your hidden blade.

IMAGINE THE POSSIBILITIES http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

IeatTemplars
12-28-2011, 02:36 AM
problems I have with the combat system in ACB and ACR:

1.in assassins creed revelations, the slow mo part of the game was sexy. But Ubisoft didnt get the timing of the sound of the metal and weapons and stuff right, and this just makes it more prominent.

2.obviously, this is ALOT of peoples issues, apologies for repeating it again but...
ITS TOO EASY!

Yusuf: what you do yesterday Ezio?
Ezio: I sliced up 200 Janisaries, and 50 captains. Then I lit 5 Templar Den Beacons.
Yusuf: O_O'