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Pirschjaeger
03-07-2006, 09:34 AM
LONDON (AFP) - The discovery of a Turkish family that walks on all fours could aid research into the evolution of humans.


Researchers believe the five brothers and sisters, who can walk naturally only on all fours, may provide new information on how humans evolved from four-legged hominids to walk upright.

Nicholas Humphrey, evolutionary psychologist at the London School of Economics, told The Times the discovery opened "an extraordinary window on our past".

"I do not think they were designed to be quadrupeds by their genes, but their unique genetic make-up allowed them to be," he said.

"It has produced an extraordinary window on our past. It is physically possible, which noone would have guessed from the [modern] human skeleton."

The siblings, the subject of a new BBC documentary to be aired on March 17, suffer from a genetic abnormality that may prevent them from walking upright.

Instead, they use their palms like heels with their fingers sticking up from the ground.

The BBC said the documentary would contribute to fierce scientific debate and raised profound questions about what it is to be human.

Humphrey, who has contributed to the documentary, believes the style of walking may be a throwback to a form of behaviour abandoned by humans more than three million years ago.

Two sisters and one son have only ever walked on two hands and two feet, while another daughter and son occasionally walk on two feet.

All five are mentally ******ed and have problems with language as a result of a form of underdevelopment of the brain known as cerebellar ataxia.

However Humphrey told the Times their behaviour may be partly the result of their parents tolerating the behaviour in childhood.

They are aged between 18 and 34 and live in southern Turkey, athough the makers of the documentary have not disclosed their exact location.

"They walk like animals and that's very disturbing at first. But we were also very moved by this family's tremendous warmth and humanity," Jemima Harrison of Passionate Productions told the Times.

Pirschjaeger
03-07-2006, 09:34 AM
LONDON (AFP) - The discovery of a Turkish family that walks on all fours could aid research into the evolution of humans.


Researchers believe the five brothers and sisters, who can walk naturally only on all fours, may provide new information on how humans evolved from four-legged hominids to walk upright.

Nicholas Humphrey, evolutionary psychologist at the London School of Economics, told The Times the discovery opened "an extraordinary window on our past".

"I do not think they were designed to be quadrupeds by their genes, but their unique genetic make-up allowed them to be," he said.

"It has produced an extraordinary window on our past. It is physically possible, which noone would have guessed from the [modern] human skeleton."

The siblings, the subject of a new BBC documentary to be aired on March 17, suffer from a genetic abnormality that may prevent them from walking upright.

Instead, they use their palms like heels with their fingers sticking up from the ground.

The BBC said the documentary would contribute to fierce scientific debate and raised profound questions about what it is to be human.

Humphrey, who has contributed to the documentary, believes the style of walking may be a throwback to a form of behaviour abandoned by humans more than three million years ago.

Two sisters and one son have only ever walked on two hands and two feet, while another daughter and son occasionally walk on two feet.

All five are mentally ******ed and have problems with language as a result of a form of underdevelopment of the brain known as cerebellar ataxia.

However Humphrey told the Times their behaviour may be partly the result of their parents tolerating the behaviour in childhood.

They are aged between 18 and 34 and live in southern Turkey, athough the makers of the documentary have not disclosed their exact location.

"They walk like animals and that's very disturbing at first. But we were also very moved by this family's tremendous warmth and humanity," Jemima Harrison of Passionate Productions told the Times.

russ.nl
03-07-2006, 12:53 PM
"an extraordinary window on our past" Perhaps it's a window into our future http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

I bed it's inbreeding.

Pirschjaeger
03-07-2006, 02:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by russ.nl:
I bed it's inbreeding. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ha ha ha, that was the first thought that came to mind but we´ll have to give the scientists some credit.

This is a documentary I´d really love to watch. It´s an interesting topic.

russ.nl
03-07-2006, 02:26 PM
It is an interesting topic, humans in general. But don't forget scientists are human to and they live in a world of there own.
I don't know if you've ever been on a university? The're great people but they need a reallity check some times http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

blakduk
03-07-2006, 05:26 PM
There are many examples of this type of genetic mutation causing all sorts of developmental problems for people. What is extraordinary about this one seems to be the consistency of the mutation among the siblings. My guess would be that inbreeding for a number of generations is to blame together with the local environment that allowed such behaviour to become firmly established (and it is a VERY uninformed guess with the little information available here).
I take issue with the idea that it's a genetic 'throwback'- that implies that evolution somehow follows a determined path of continual improvement. It is likely to be a corruption of a short sequence of genes involved in the control of the developing cerebrum (which controls coordination) or it may involve damage to the inner ear (which allows us to balance), or a combination of the two (with nerve pathways not connecting adequately between them).
Evolution doesnt work in reverse- a damaged human doesnt grow to become an australopithicine.
The basis for evolution is that random mutations occur in offspring, more offspring are born than are expected to survive to adulthood, the ones best adapted TO THEIR ENVIRONMENT are the ones most likely to successfully breed.
In some of the hospitals i've worked i've seen people using extraordinary means of locomotion- including a person who used their shoulder and nose/chin (congenital syphillis). We certainly didn't consider her to be evidence for how homo sapiens learned to move about in the primordial swamps.

KrashanTopolova
03-07-2006, 05:34 PM
don't believe a word of it...they are probably only looking for money on the ground...


I have found a lot of coins walking like that...

Pirschjaeger
03-11-2006, 07:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KrashanTopolova:
don't believe a word of it...they are probably only looking for money on the ground...


I have found a lot of coins walking like that... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ha ha ha, I´m sure you don´t live in France. The dogs will leave more than coins on the sidewalks. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Pirschjaeger
03-11-2006, 07:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by blakduk:
There are many examples of this type of genetic mutation causing all sorts of developmental problems for people. What is extraordinary about this one seems to be the consistency of the mutation among the siblings. My guess would be that inbreeding for a number of generations is to blame together with the local environment that allowed such behaviour to become firmly established (and it is a VERY uninformed guess with the little information available here).
I take issue with the idea that it's a genetic 'throwback'- that implies that evolution somehow follows a determined path of continual improvement. It is likely to be a corruption of a short sequence of genes involved in the control of the developing cerebrum (which controls coordination) or it may involve damage to the inner ear (which allows us to balance), or a combination of the two (with nerve pathways not connecting adequately between them).
Evolution doesnt work in reverse- a damaged human doesnt grow to become an australopithicine.
The basis for evolution is that random mutations occur in offspring, more offspring are born than are expected to survive to adulthood, the ones best adapted TO THEIR ENVIRONMENT are the ones most likely to successfully breed.
In some of the hospitals i've worked i've seen people using extraordinary means of locomotion- including a person who used their shoulder and nose/chin (congenital syphillis). We certainly didn't consider her to be evidence for how homo sapiens learned to move about in the primordial swamps. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi blakduk,

Yesterday, I saw a photo of three of the siblings walking on all fours. Something is wrong with the pic but I can´t place my finger on it.

Something I did notice, was the way they were positioned. Before seeing the pic, I had tried to imagine(mechanically) how they would have positioned themselves.

Firstly, we must consider the differences between the legs and the arms. If these people were had actually learnt to walk from infancy, on all fours, they would walk with their backs horizontally level. My point would be based on the fact that babies and small children are extremely flexible compared to adults. We lose our flexibility when we start walking upright.

Another thing I noticed was the positions of their heads while they were walking. You can see they have no more flexibility in their necks then what we have. Considering that they were supposed to be walking this way all their lives, they should have certain flexibilities that we don´t have.

In the pic, these people were walking with their feet and knees relatively close together. To add, they seemed stressed at keeping their heads up.

I´m guessing that they are either cons trying to cash in or genetically defect from inbreeding.

I will google and see if I can find the pic.

Pirschjaeger
03-11-2006, 07:48 AM
Here´s a link.

http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/4043481.asp?gid=74

Rickustyit
03-11-2006, 09:11 AM
That's quite disturbing...

As it is your signature http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

Pirsch, what exactly does your signature mean?
Using babel-fish I can only understand some words out of it.

http://www.vvs-regia-avions.com/Regia/MC205-001.jpg

Cheers,
Rick

elphifou
03-11-2006, 09:27 AM
Don't you worry, I'll get it translated in no time at all...

Whirlin_merlin
03-11-2006, 09:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by blakduk:
There are many examples of this type of genetic mutation causing all sorts of developmental problems for people. What is extraordinary about this one seems to be the consistency of the mutation among the siblings. My guess would be that inbreeding for a number of generations is to blame together with the local environment that allowed such behaviour to become firmly established (and it is a VERY uninformed guess with the little information available here).
I take issue with the idea that it's a genetic 'throwback'- that implies that evolution somehow follows a determined path of continual improvement. It is likely to be a corruption of a short sequence of genes involved in the control of the developing cerebrum (which controls coordination) or it may involve damage to the inner ear (which allows us to balance), or a combination of the two (with nerve pathways not connecting adequately between them).
Evolution doesnt work in reverse- a damaged human doesnt grow to become an australopithicine.
The basis for evolution is that random mutations occur in offspring, more offspring are born than are expected to survive to adulthood, the ones best adapted TO THEIR ENVIRONMENT are the ones most likely to successfully breed.
In some of the hospitals i've worked i've seen people using extraordinary means of locomotion- including a person who used their shoulder and nose/chin (congenital syphillis). We certainly didn't consider her to be evidence for how homo sapiens learned to move about in the primordial swamps. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What a nice sucicint (spelling?) explination of how evolution by natural selection works. Please now didicate you life to touring the bible belt spreading the word. The enlightenment needs you!

Pirschjaeger
03-11-2006, 09:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rickustyit:
Pirsch, what exactly does your signature mean?

Cheers,
Rick </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, it´s about identity. See, in Germany, because of history, Germans in general are ashamed to say they are German. In place of calling themselves German, they refer to themselves in regards to their regions. For example, someone from Franken will call themselves "Frankish" while someone from Dresden will say they are a "Saxon". Germans have a bit of an identity problem today. If a German stands up and says "I am German and proud" then others will call him a nazi.

The German government has started placing quotes such as the one in my sig everywhere. Germans need to regain their identity.

Rather than giving a direct transation that will lose the true meaning, I´ll translate the idea.

A German moves to Italy. Once he is there the Italians call him a "Tedesco". This simply means German. In Germany he is referred to by the area he comes from. Outside of German he is simply German. It has a nice meaning.

Breeze147
03-11-2006, 10:19 AM
Further study by the Breeze Institute revealed that the family had for generations lived in a house with 4' ceilings. After moving them to a house with 10' ceilings, the family miracuously began to walk upright.