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View Full Version : Keeeeeel F6..........



LEBillfish
07-28-2007, 02:11 AM
Heard the excuses, heard all the logic...Simply cannot be that hard to make either a new module or something to either get rid of F6 "server" side or make them selectable.

Without externals 80% would not be here....all the awesome skins and so on pointless, the great maps and objects. Yet the features of F2/6/7 alone absolutly make externals rediculous at times....Mostly F6....That feature alone if gone would make the external vs internal only alone debate a moot point as it's the "radar" capabilities that is mostly at issue.

I've heard the "external after eject or dead debate"....Heard the "Full switch *insert grunts and I'm an ace*" debates there......Fact of the matter is no one who flys full switch ever would of made it this far as far as staying in the sim if there were not externals...In fact the sim would of died long ago as cockpits alone only go so far. Yet the cycling through opponents via F6 simply at times makes externals arcade.....

I'd bet big bucks that if there was an option to just turn off F6 server side that by far would be the choice of most.

Kill F6! kill kill kill kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

LEBillfish
07-28-2007, 02:11 AM
Heard the excuses, heard all the logic...Simply cannot be that hard to make either a new module or something to either get rid of F6 "server" side or make them selectable.

Without externals 80% would not be here....all the awesome skins and so on pointless, the great maps and objects. Yet the features of F2/6/7 alone absolutly make externals rediculous at times....Mostly F6....That feature alone if gone would make the external vs internal only alone debate a moot point as it's the "radar" capabilities that is mostly at issue.

I've heard the "external after eject or dead debate"....Heard the "Full switch *insert grunts and I'm an ace*" debates there......Fact of the matter is no one who flys full switch ever would of made it this far as far as staying in the sim if there were not externals...In fact the sim would of died long ago as cockpits alone only go so far. Yet the cycling through opponents via F6 simply at times makes externals arcade.....

I'd bet big bucks that if there was an option to just turn off F6 server side that by far would be the choice of most.

Kill F6! kill kill kill kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6 kill f6
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

DmdSeeker
07-28-2007, 02:20 AM
Externals are for films.

I don't agree with your postulation that most wouldn't be here without externals.

No other online sim I've flown has ever had them, and I wouldn't fly on a server that did.

Feathered_IV
07-28-2007, 04:13 AM
Dosen't effect me much, but I can understand your frustration in not being able to select your preffered mode of play. For offline, I'm happy to use externals on occaision. But for online play, I like all my boxes ticked.

Sorry LB http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gif

neural_dream
07-28-2007, 04:37 AM
F6? I doubt I've ever pressed that on purpose. What does it do? I'd be happy enough if they remove externals from all servers with 20 players and more http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif. Yup, that's what I want.

stansdds
07-28-2007, 05:24 AM
I love F6, use it all the time, without it I could not see how cool I look while flying. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Seriously, I don't use it during combat, it confuses me and gets me disoriented. I prefer to stay firmly planted in the cockpit until my crate is completely shredded. I do use it for watching tracks and such.

Xiolablu3
07-28-2007, 10:12 AM
Billfish, you are right of course, it needs an option to remove padlock from the game and allow externals.

But expect all sorts of 'I never ever played with externals, I dont even know what it does' remarks from people who think it shows how good a pilot they are.


I dont mind it as much as some, if you dont have a track IR and are flying versus people with one, then you are at a major disadvantage, F6 padlock levels the playing field.

*You still have to be a good pilot to do well, even with F6 enabled servers. Its not like it shoots down the enemy for you, in fact its harder to bouce people as they see you coming every time.

*It keeps the action constant, no scanning the skies for enemies for an hour.


I fly mostly energy fighters, the planes that F6 padlock hinder the most (much harder to bounce) However, I can still do well, and I like it because the action is thick and fast. No boring 1 hour flights without seeing the enemy - my lifes too short.

CUt short - It would be great if we could disable F6 padlock and still have externals, my fav server is full real with externals and close friendly icons. However I dont think F6 is as bad as some make out.

I find CTRL F2 far worse, where lamers can cycle through every enemy plane on the map, find the most vulnerabale (usually a lone bomber) and fly to that point to shoot him down. FOr this reason, please allow servers to choose which padlocks they can allow and which they can remove.

You know it makes sense.

LEBillfish
07-28-2007, 11:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DmdSeeker:
Externals are for films.

I don't agree with your postulation that most wouldn't be here without externals.

No other online sim I've flown has ever had them, and I wouldn't fly on a server that did. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I don't buy that......If you came to this sim and all you saw were in pit views ever, most would give it a go then walk away.....Like it or not the eye candy in this sim has a great mass appeal. In fact, without it there is little use for the ultra detailed skins our community makes, ground objects could be much simpler and fewer, on and on.

Try something since "all" of you know what F6 does.....Run a quick mission against 8 enemy, using F6 you'll hammer them, and no matter how slight seem to always be able to skirt the ronds and set up easier........Now try flying it in F2 by just looking around, you'll quickly "stay in your pit" and fly, as being external with no padlock cycling through the enemy just makes it tougher........That is why to make F6 selectable.

Before this gets confused...."Padlock" or F4-F5 is in itself a seperate feature and different not contested.....It is that ability to instantly find and zero in on all in range enemy showing their relation to you which is at issue, not once finding them able to track them as one would naturally.

There are other aspects that make "externals" have value....When on a field you'd know the general area, and be guided around it....Starting out in a locked pit having no idea what obstacles you need to avaoid or where to go simply silly.



For myself?....I like externals yet as policy of most external servers from habit now stay "in the pit" just like full switch till free and clear AND heading home or out of action.......So why not just fly full switch? As then I miss getting to see action that makes the sim so much fun once out of the fight and as said above the eye candy here is awesome.

WHy say all this?..........Well, those of you here long enough know what I'm saying play as dumb or elitist as you want *shrugs*.....Yet it only takes 1 or two in a coop or dogfight server who use/abuse F2/F6/F7 to spoil a match and turn it arcade.

and I stick by my guns that if it could be disabled server side....by FAR would be the setup of choice. DIsabling/making switchable that feature alone the most important fix the sim could make.

MrMojok
07-28-2007, 12:18 PM
Oh, I agree with ya. But it sure seems like if they *could* change this, they would have done so long ago. Just like the AI gunner accuracy.

Hydra454
07-28-2007, 02:38 PM
I don't really think there is a "right" way to play this game.I'll play it how I want.

I'm all in favor of externals (although I still like there to be enclosed cockpits) for the simple fact that it levels the field.If someone doesn't want to use it,so be it.

F6 is the poor mans TrackIR.

neural_dream
07-28-2007, 02:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hydra454:
I don't really think there is a "right" way to play this game.I'll play it how I want.

I'm all in favor of externals (although I still like there to be enclosed cockpits) for the simple fact that it levels the field.If someone doesn't want to use it,so be it.

F6 is the poor mans TrackIR. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
F6 is not the poor man's trackIR. This honour goes to newview. F6 is something that makes the majority of the current servers unbearable to those of us who don't do the frantic switch between cameras game. I understand they cover the need for arcade gaming, but they are atm 80% of the servers http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif.

willyvic
07-28-2007, 03:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEBillfish:
...
I'd bet big bucks that if there was an option to just turn off F6 server side that by far would be the choice of most...

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You betcha.

I fly WC and ZvW. They offer what I like in a server.

It's a shame though that the only time I ever get to see my skins is on a local server or in the replay. If padlock was allowed to be disabled server side I believe most "full switch" servers would allow F2 and skin downloads.

WV

Grand_Armee
07-28-2007, 03:24 PM
My "F" keys don't work properly. If I go into 'controls' and try to make a change and select the f6 button, the text shows that my key selection is control-H. F8 is control-y. PC says my keyboard is fine. Someday I'll get a new one.

I use externals but limitedly. My biggest use of them is when I spawn on a field and cannot see where the taxiways or runways are. It really cheeses me off when I can't see the field and I bounce around to an embarrassing crash.

Hell, yesterday I took off from a field where the strip was behind me and was separated from my view by trees and netted a/c enclosures.

As far as I'm concerned, externals are almost a necessity until the view from the pit in the game is exactly as good as the view from the pit of the real aircraft.

As long as the view you have is the view given to a pilot who has fused vertebrae from his waist up to the top of his shoulders, you need something.

Sadly, this sim cannot reproduce everything that the WWII pilot would consider his normal environment.

We cannot feel the weight shift as we bank, roll, climb, dive etc,...because we'll always be upright. Headshake/turbulence...all those other effects are further negatives that can be somewhat alleviated in real flying because of the way we humans are. However, they can't be alleviated in the sim...just switched on or off.

Unless you have enough buddies flying at the same time as you...on Teamspeak, you'll have no wingmen able to look in the places you cannot. That's another reason fof the squadron and formations.

We're not doing real flying here. Anyone who thinks we are might as well go blindfolded into a zero-gravity space and try whacking at a pinata.

Radar...ok, I get your point.

I'll tell ya though...I'm here to have fun. Sometimes I fly the easier servers, sometimes I fly full switch. It looks to me as if there are enough servers to please everyone's tastes...even if they want Prime Rib (YUM!) at noon and sloppy-joes at one PM.


Cheers!

Xiolablu3
07-28-2007, 04:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by neural_dream:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hydra454:
I don't really think there is a "right" way to play this game.I'll play it how I want.

I'm all in favor of externals (although I still like there to be enclosed cockpits) for the simple fact that it levels the field.If someone doesn't want to use it,so be it.

F6 is the poor mans TrackIR. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
F6 is not the poor man's trackIR. This honour goes to newview. F6 is something that makes the majority of the current servers unbearable to those of us who don't do the frantic switch between cameras game. I understand they cover the need for arcade gaming, but they are atm 80% of the servers http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There are lots and lots of excellent Full real servers which are empty a lot of the time.
Hitsoria, Ukded3, Spits VS 109's, Zekes vs Wildcats and loads more. I have around 80 servers listed in ASE, you can bet lots of them are full real.

Ukdedicated3 opened a few months ago because of the call for a no externals UKded server, it has all the excellent crafted maps and planesets of UKded2 with even more, and is empty most of the time, by far the least popular settings of the 3 servers.

All playing of IL2 computer games is arcade flying, however its just some settings 'more arcade' than others.

There is no shortage of full real style servers, and you can always be sure of a place, I dont get what your problem is?

neural_dream
07-28-2007, 05:19 PM
I wasn't clear. When I said 80% of servers are arcade I meant that 80% of the servers who have a sufficient number of players to be interesting (say &gt;20) are arcade.

Nowadays, even Warclouds is empty. Luckily there's still 109s Vs Spits with 30+ players. The rest are gradually fading away.

UKded3 has my favourite settings, but is always empty.

Badsight-
07-28-2007, 05:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MrMojok:
Oh, I agree with ya. But it sure seems like if they *could* change this, they would have done so long ago. Just like the AI gunner accuracy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>yea , this has come up at this forum since before the first patch

its an option that makes so much sense - if it could be done they would have

jolly_magpie
07-28-2007, 05:33 PM
I have a boneheaded question I have been afraid to ask so far. What is "full switch"?

Xiolablu3
07-28-2007, 05:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jolly_magpie:
I have a boneheaded question I have been afraid to ask so far. What is "full switch"? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Means all settings on the most difficult.

DOnt be afraid to ask questions, I will answer if I see them.

jolly_magpie
07-28-2007, 05:49 PM
Thanks!!!

Xiolablu3
07-28-2007, 05:56 PM
WHat everyone should be seeing in this thread regardless of the settings they prefer :-

Options for externals with padlock On/Off = More Options = Better

BfHeFwMe
07-28-2007, 09:38 PM
It's already on the list, a bit under the gunners and 190 bar fixes.

flakwagen
07-28-2007, 11:58 PM
I'd settle for having the ability to see enemy external views killed. That's what makes it nearly impossible to sneak up on folks.

As for cockpit-only servers, I have tried them. I simply cannot orientate myself well enough to take off. The runway and ordinary rough ground looks the same at that angle. And flying alone, without the ability to sight see while climbing to altitude, is very boring.

And the cockpit view system is also not at all realistic. Your head acts like a ball in a cup that is situated against the headrest. At best it's like trying to fly a plane with nothing but a tank driver's slit of glass to see through.


Flak

msalama
07-29-2007, 01:29 AM
Externals? Well I like to have them on when I'm hosting - NOT for shooting and / or manouvering, but for checking out the general action after having died once AGAIN http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

M_Gunz
07-29-2007, 01:56 AM
You can sneak up when externals are enabled if only this F6 is disabled?
I would have thought that externals would allow players to watch their six occasionally just
by popping out and having a quick look. Blind spot? What blind spot?

Roblex
07-29-2007, 07:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:

But expect all sorts of 'I never ever played with externals, I dont even know what it does' remarks from people who think it shows how good a pilot they are.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I fully admit that despite playing multi-player online combat flight sims (not MS) for at least 15 years and IL2 for over 5 I am terrible at dogfighting and mostly fly bombers and ground attack but I can also echo Neural Dreams comment
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">F6? I doubt I've ever pressed that on purpose. What does it do? I'd be happy enough if they remove externals from all servers with 20 players and more . Yup, that's what I want. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I honestly don't know what F6 does and have never used it. After reading through this thread I guess it is an external padlock. I do use external views sometimes but would be happy if it was restricted to watching tracks only and 'After Death' when online. It can be frustrating to die in the middle of a long Co-Op and unable to follow the action. Ideally all the views should be configurable in the Difficulty settings ie you may want to allow Shift F2 (look at friendlies) but disable Ctl-F2 (look at enemies) and disable all padlock views.

Lurch1962
07-30-2007, 08:00 PM
It's been so long ago that I mapped my controls to my HOTAS that I don't remember any of the view control keys, or most any others for that matter. (I do my forum stuff from the shop, not home, and I don't keep the manual here at work.) Moreover, don't some folks change at least some of the default controls? I have.

Sooooo... may I kindly request, whenever possible, that some descriptor of a control be given in addition to its keyboard equivalent? Just to eliminate confusion.

That said, Billfish, are you asking that ALL padlock-type views be diasbleable (is that a valid word? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif)? To be sure, for the non-TrackIR crowd the internal padlock is a must. But I suspect you were concerned with the external padlock only, eh?

--Lurch--

Whirlin_merlin
07-31-2007, 04:20 AM
I agree that it would be better if there was more control over views and padlocks for servers, let's pray to the great SOWBOBGOD Oleg.
Have to say I much prefer externals enabled as I am the worlds worst taxier.
Also I do at times love my F6 it's the beer drinkers friend. It's also a great way to fly into the ground.

I fly online for fun, I don't really want to be a feal WW2 pilot, ruddy dangerous that, however fun for me comes from teamwork, compleating objectives, whislt drinking beer. So 'ext on' servers like UK2 suit me. I feel for those that prefer 'full-switch' but most busy servers are 'arcadey' what can you do, force everyone to play your way?