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View Full Version : Warclouds 1Death Kick=r0xx0rz



Fish6891
01-28-2005, 12:03 PM
Well from reading the reaction on these forums to the single deathkick you'd think the sky was falling. I think thats probably because the peeps who like it have nothing to complain about, this may or may not be but regardless I'd like to take the opportunity to say that ITS NOT THAT BAD, in fact its more good than bad.

Think about it, with the one deathkick everyone is changing the way they fly because now survival is priority#1. What does this mean Fish?
Well, for starters you'll find a reduction in deaths from stupidity, such as people running over each other on the runway, or 25 Bf109s chasing one bogey, with 21 of them crashing into each other before the bogey goes down and then the other 4 shooting each other down because of a so called "Kill-steal".
You'll find that base vulchers are becoming much smarter and instead of having one annoying spitfire come in and circle around over blue base making 21 Bf109s collide into each other, we'll have similar to what we had yesterday. An armada composed of two B25s with altitude, about 6 P38s, 2 P47s, and a P51 all attacked our base together, THAT is more than just a stupid suicidal niusance, THAT is a real threat.
You'll find that everyone flys more tactically and deck-fights are less common, and when they do appear they're something more than just aircraft circling around trying to shoot as much as they can b4 getting killed.
You'll find that high altitude fights, I mean HIGH altitude fights, are more common now(YES!).
You'll find that because the life of our teamates is now priority#2 ppl(at least ppl on comms) will be more aggressive when it comes to saving a teamates life, which results in ppl pushing their own skill to the limit because thats just what happens when your in a situation which involves putting yourself in danger to save another.
You'll find that as a side-effect to the previous, ppl work together more tactically, so yes teamwork is promoted.
You'll find that people bail more readily instead of fighting on fire.
You'll find that there is now more meaning to using survival tactics such as trying to drag a battle into your own territory, just in case. I can go on with the positive side-effects but my fingers will fall off.

Wow Fish! I know :]. But Fish, if its so great why are people so upset?
Well, they're probably just annoyed at the fact that if they get vulched, or have a runway accident, or get bounced and pked they have to wait 5 minutes.
You can counter all of this by just being situationally aware. Ask ur teamates if its safe to spawn somewhere, be careful on the runway, watch ur six. Even if this does happen to you, think about it, ITS JUST FIVE MINUTES! On the other hand if the reason someone is upset is that they aren't able to rack up a high score, there is one simple remedy to that. Fly smart, don't die. You can get shot down, just don't lose ur pilot.

Wow Fish, I think you're right! Of course :].

Honestly there are no real negatives, its just a bit tougher. People are just getting a bit annoyed because they've yet to adapt to a less careless flight style, pilots will just have to fly smarter.

Regards,
Fish

(Just thought I'd mention this cause I thought it was cool, just the other day I was in my Focke-Wulf at the apex of a loop, suddenly I look "up" and through the top of my canopy I see a P51 climbing right up at me pointing those .50s at my pilot. Usually I'd immediatley pull something evasive, however, knowing I had only 1 pilot life my reflex was to roll 180 degrees and face my belly at the P51 to protect my pilot, and THEN pull evasive immediately afterwards. It worked http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif So yes, this 1death kick is results in the natural developement of some nifty survival tactics)

JG7_Rall
01-28-2005, 12:15 PM
n00b.

Just kidding http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Couldn't have said it better myself. While I did like zooming down on all the noobs turnfighting right on the deck and getting easy kills, this 1 deathkick has made people start flying a lot more realistically. The high alt fights are a lot of fun too.

Personally I hope people get over it and sparx keeps the 1 deathkick in!

Stiglr
01-28-2005, 12:19 PM
Well... imagine that.

And the thing you forgot to mention... this smarter, more realistic, more historic flying... is actually FUN, too. That's the #1 charge the quake fliers fling at historic flying, the idea that somehow it isn't fun.

GAU-8
01-28-2005, 01:23 PM
i cant say enuff about the change! all good

WOLFMondo
01-28-2005, 01:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fish6891:

Honestly there are no real negatives, its just a bit tougher. People are just getting a bit annoyed because they've yet to adapt to a less careless flight style, pilots will just have to fly smarter.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You know I fly smart fishhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif but three times i've been kicked due to lag freezes and i've hit the ground and been kicked. This is really very frustrating despite my connection being set to Sparx's own recommendations. Thats something no real life pilot had to deal with...dodgy netcode.

Akronnick
01-28-2005, 01:35 PM
I love the one deathkick, even though it means I spend more time in the penalty box. last night at one point there were about 25 people on the Warclouds server, and there were 26 (counting me) who were on Teamspeak! Granted, some of those were probably sitting in the penalty box like I was. At one point, I got dragged over the opposing base while dogfighting, I saw some parked aircraft so I lined up and started strafing them. At least two of them despawned(?) before I could get them, which I think is the virtual equivalent of hopping out of the cockpit and finding a hole somewhere, perfectly valid.

Anyway, I think the one deathkick thing is working. While it's not perfect, and crashing on takeoff because of computer lag sucks, we don't have do deal with bad fuel, engines that have seen to many combat hours since their last overhaul, marginal weather, war weary airframes or any of the hundreds of things that RL pilots had to contend with.

Thanks SPaRX, keep up the good work. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gifS~

OldMan____
01-28-2005, 01:46 PM
Agree with Fish. I was there this morning (morning here) and saw you there. Best game I had on WC on long time. Dies twice.. waites twice teh 5 minutes.. no problems with that.


The only thing that would piss me would be to wait 5 min than come back as as soon as I hit fly someone else that is taxing tramples me.

VMF-214_HaVoK
01-28-2005, 01:57 PM
Finally dogfights happen where they should...out of the weeds at last.

notgoodknight
01-28-2005, 02:24 PM
I like the change, however there is a price to pay for everything.

Examples:

The server is rarely full now, even at the busiest times of HL.

When Im flying, the opposite team suffers a shortage of pilots and the teams are never even.

LStarosta
01-28-2005, 03:17 PM
I see that Ace Prefontaine has taught Ace Fish well in the way of the r0xx0rz.

May the r0xx0rz be with you.

PBNA-Boosher
01-28-2005, 04:47 PM
wooooh! CHANGE IS GOOD!

Stiglr
01-28-2005, 05:04 PM
The key thing here is to recognize the change as one for the better, and don't budge for the Quakers. The numbers will grow, and behavior will change. It just won't happen in an instant, the same way Quakers expect everything to happen.

Stay the course.

Extreme_One
01-28-2005, 05:18 PM
I've yet to fly online but I will soon - this setup sounds great to me.

Challenge = fun IMO!

Prop_Strike
01-28-2005, 06:51 PM
HI Guys...just had to say I didn't know if I was going to like the 1 life deathkick....but now I think it's great!! Last night I was flying with some great flyers(and great guys also)on comms...Xses, GAU-8, NickDanger to name a few.I'm Fairly 'noob' to online,and these guys really looked after me when I needed help.
Because of '1 life', I really felt a sense of DANGER when a 109 or 190 started firing on me...my heart rate went through the roof!!:-)
These guys would dive in and I'd look behind me to see GAU-8 or NickDanger there toasting 'em for me...Fantastic! At one point I was in real trouble when Stinger swooped in and told me to BRAKE LEFT NOW!!....I did and looked over my shoulder to see the enemy plane burst into flames! I know I rambling, but my point is that it felt REAL...with 1 life,comms,trackir and a great bunch of guys backing you up....doesn't get much better......don't change a thing.

P.S A thank-you and virtual beer to all who helped out a noob....Salute!

T_O_A_D
01-28-2005, 07:04 PM
I love it! I spent 2 hours on it the other night. Before I just up and quit, due to work schedules and sleep http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif Although I never got a kill it was alot of fun working against more realistic battle senarios. I always die quick if I chase the furballs. I'm a lead magnet http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif So I always try to fly more careful than most and end up with very low scores just so I can make my sortie and get home. Unless I'm in a Bomber then well its up to my cover to bring me home.

nickdanger3
01-28-2005, 07:32 PM
Thanks for the props (HA!) Prop_Strike...lots of really great teamwork last night.

That was my first time in the 1 deathkick WC and daaaaammnnnnnnnn booooyeeeeee....great time.

Good fun.

FatBoyHK
01-28-2005, 08:24 PM
I found the change very encouraging.... I no longer get easy kills on WarClouds (yes, I consider it easy in the past, when people just TnB regardless of the situation above them), and one mistake, boom, back to desktop.... very challenging, and you learn quicker in this harzard environment http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

VFS-22_SPaRX
01-28-2005, 08:46 PM
Glad you all are having a good time on the server. It seems to be working as intended http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. Here's a little story to kind of help understand the thoughts behind why we did this.
This if for the golfers out there.

You and your buddy are playing a friendly golf match for a couple of bucks per hole. You both agreed that you have 3 mulligans per 9 holes. So now you are on a par 5 with a water hazzard that you have to fly your drive 270 yards to clear it. You can do it if you hit the ball JUST right. Its a risk, but you have two mulligans, so might as well give it a shot. Two shots go in the water so now you pull out your 4 Iron to play it safe.

Well basically, you don't have two mulligans on Warclouds anymore http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. Welcome to the Pros!

This Mortal Coil
01-28-2005, 09:10 PM
Cool, now all we need is online wars where they don't keep "total pilot stats" anymore. If you get your pilot killed, you start over from scratch, no more keeping points from previous lives.

Now that might actually bring me back from retirement to try to beat my old 132 kill streak.

Fish6891
01-28-2005, 09:52 PM
.......Golf is boring....... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

OldMan____
01-29-2005, 02:29 AM
Rthing that I dont like In WC and makes me fly greter green a lot is the fixed plane set. That makes all round equal. I would love to see some 43 plane set maps mixed with the curent ones.

Yum_Yum
01-29-2005, 03:02 AM
I agree with what Fish6891 has wrote.

I like the new Death Kick and it has not changed the way I play or the fun I have on the server http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

It is unfortunate that so many players have been scared off for whatever reasons, and because of this there are fewer players using the server, player names may change and I think it will grow back to being full http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

I can only spend about an hour each evening playing, but I still prefer to play under the WC settings http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Cya!

p1ngu666
01-29-2005, 04:23 AM
u get like two people trying to do mission objectives http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

also u those who stay in for a long time either do a)nothing effectivly b)shoot ppl down, but to stay in that way, your limiting other ppls fun http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

OldMan____
01-29-2005, 05:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
u get like two people trying to do mission objectives http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

also u those who stay in for a long time either do a)nothing effectivly b)shoot ppl down, but to stay in that way, your limiting other ppls fun http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cant see why it limits fun? only if you like to die. Today I was in a bad day and died 5 or 6 times. No problem. Uses that 5 minutes each time to come here at forum.


The thing that I still think misses most is mission proper execution. And I credit that to the map/planeset style used in WC. Everytime the same planeset makes mission transparent between each other. The map change becomes a simple unconvinience.. since nothing really changes.. you only need to climb again.
I neer see anyone exclamating " We Won the mission!!" at WC but I do see this in other servers.

I see MUCH more proper mission execution in greater green.. even with no death kick. I like WC beacuse more people use TS and lower ping (for me), but I still feel people fly much more dogfight server than mission server at WC.

Da_Godfatha
01-29-2005, 05:56 AM
The idea is not bad if the FLAK is not set on "Radar-controlled, we will hit your pilot EVERYTIME and you die at 20 km from target" mode.

Just my 2 cents.

AWL_Spinner
01-29-2005, 06:11 AM
Flak's not been too much of a problem on any bomb run I've been on recently. Make sure you're high enough...

Enemy airfields, well, they're much better defended than other ground targets and I guess that's fair enough as a vulching deterrant.

x__CRASH__x
01-29-2005, 07:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VFS-22_SPaRX:
Blah blah a couple of bucks per game blah blah <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Holy s**t!! We have to pay to play on WarClouds now??? What next!!

jung0l
01-29-2005, 10:36 AM
well.....after putting my 2 pennies worth of opinion in the kettle..I decided to mosey on down there and just see for myself what to think of this and give it a real good effort....and well what do you know..I lasted 3 sorties and landed 2 full real kills in one of them...have to thank that brave P-38 driver for donating 200 points.....and to tell ya the truth...i really got into it a little bit. I think the main thing that's changed is now we have a more realistic view of our projectiles' path without the star wars muzzle blasts. And at least we still have map icons and speed bar..so it wasn't as bad as I thought.....

So I take back my jokes and opinions dissing it...there's a definate sense of urgency not to screw around i guess..but i can't say it's changed the way I've ever flown on there. But now there's an interesting alternative for my ususal servers..

LStarosta
01-29-2005, 11:59 AM
I really wish the flak didn't insist on shooting you out of your parachute after you bailed. Nothing worse than drifting towards the ground... and then 20 feet from the ground, pop goes your chute, splat goes your face, and crack goes your neck.

VFS-22_SPaRX
01-29-2005, 12:41 PM
jung0l,

I am glad you gave it a shot. I think that most players are going to come to the same conclusion if they just get in there and play. Some of these posts are making it sound like its the end all. There are a few annoying things that happen now and again, but the Pros FAR outway these cons. The dynamics on the server has changed greatly. Just listening in on the comms channels you will see how much more "team effort" there is now. Also, with the Plane/Pilot objectives set where they are, you are not going to see many maps won due to pilot or plane kills. If you want to win the mission, you will have to attack your targets.


LStarosta,

Personally, I do not bail out in enemy territory. It almost surely going to result in your death. Sometimes i cannot be avoided i know, but as alot of people are saying "war is hell". It amazes me the number of players that will bail out with an enemy on their six firing away and get mad because they get shot in their chute. Get clear from your enemy before you bail. You will have a greater chance of surviving http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

HeinzBar
01-29-2005, 01:14 PM
S!,
Personally, I haven't found a server that one can jump into and have more fun. For me, the icon settings are best compromise, and the death kick is the kicker which makes WC so great. Nothing against GG, but for me, there's no penalty for getting killed. No deathkick in GG makes it uneventful and does not create a since of satisfaction I find in WC. I have no fear of being shot down in GG because I just click refly w/o waiting.

Granted, GG has great maps and a wide varity of planesets. When I'm in the mood for variety and don't care about being shot down, I'll fly GG.

As to no one trying to complete the missions, I completely disagree. Both sides compete to win the map and many times, while on comms, the blue side vocally celebrates when they win. Ground pounding is very challenging w/ the intense ground fire, which is a good balance IMHO. Those that declare that ground-pounding is impossible just haven't figured out how to complete the mission w/o dying. Some of us dedicated jabo pilot are having a great time evading the fighter cover while completing our missions.

Which leads me to my point, fly the server you like and don't look back. There are tens of servers out there offering cookie cutter settings for folks to fly at and enjoy. If that's your cup of tea, enjoy it. However, WC offers a unique setting which I prefer....the merciless one-deathkick.

HB


LOL!! CRash

x__CRASH__x
01-29-2005, 01:19 PM
Heinz is a WC mod, so his opinion doesn't count. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Seriously, I'm getting used to it. But I still get pissed when I get killed, especially when it's for stupid stuff. Last time was when a 190 was getting to frisky on my kill. I was right on the P-51's six SHOOTING HIM WITH VISABLE HITS. They guy still went for it and ran into me, killing us both. It was his first time on WC, hopefully his last.

jung0l
01-29-2005, 02:20 PM
Yeah i hear ya crash....got 2 kills...then on the way back to base..tried to help a friendly..next thing you know..collision ...... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif..........

Stiglr
01-29-2005, 02:50 PM
That's the point, xCRASHx, you're supposed to care about getting killed, and it's supposed to p*ss you off when you die. It's much more immersive than just flying around in circles and hitting refly with no repercussions.

p1ngu666
01-29-2005, 06:12 PM
id like deathkick=2, tbh

x__CRASH__x
01-29-2005, 06:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stiglr:
That's the _point_, xCRASHx, you're _supposed_ to care about getting killed, and it's _supposed_ to p*ss you off when you die. It's much more immersive than just flying around in circles and hitting refly with no repercussions. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I care just as much if I have unlimited deaths, or just one. It's just that a single death upsets me, especially when i get vulched, or team killed, or run into.

I say 2 would have been a smarter way to go, but looks like not even a week went by before the decision was made.

Stiglr
01-29-2005, 06:40 PM
The point is, not everybody else cares if they die, and it cheapens the experience for everybody who wants a realistic experience.

Just a token inconvenience of 5 minutes (an ETERNITY for an attention-deficit quake flier!) seems to be enough to get a lot of folks to alter their flying, and to fly smarter. I'd say that's a huge success.