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View Full Version : Fix the tempest!



EiZ0N
06-23-2006, 10:28 AM
Very provocative thread title http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

It's not right, I'm sure.

I just got out dived from 3500m by a 109, despite having height advantage. It was even faster than me on the flat.

That can't be right, surely? If the Tempest can't outrun things, it's pretty useless, no?

I think the fact that hardly anyone flies them on-line, yet plenty of people fly other BnZ planes, shows that maybe it's just plain under modelled?

Who's with me?! Or perhaps I'm an idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about? You tell me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

EiZ0N
06-23-2006, 10:28 AM
Very provocative thread title http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

It's not right, I'm sure.

I just got out dived from 3500m by a 109, despite having height advantage. It was even faster than me on the flat.

That can't be right, surely? If the Tempest can't outrun things, it's pretty useless, no?

I think the fact that hardly anyone flies them on-line, yet plenty of people fly other BnZ planes, shows that maybe it's just plain under modelled?

Who's with me?! Or perhaps I'm an idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about? You tell me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Sillius_Sodus
06-23-2006, 11:08 AM
You're not alone in your complaints about the Tempest, there have been several threads on it. Whether or not it will be fixed is another matter, perhaps in one of the upcoming add-ons.

Good hunitng,
Sillius_Sodus

mortoma1958
06-23-2006, 11:34 AM
Was it an AI that out-dived you?? That matters tremendously!! I was in a shallow dive flying a D0-335 and going 850-900Kph and an AI controlled LA-5FN was stuck to my tail like it was glued to it the whole way down. If a human flies a LA, it will disintegrate at a far lower speed than that. Oleg decided to give AI advantages like that a long time ago to compensate for other weaknesses they have. And he admitted it freely. The AI dive ability is one area in which they were strongly and purposely over-modeled. The AI Japanese Zero diving ability is pronounced to say the least, negates the traditional Allied advantage substantially and is very unfortunate.

EiZ0N
06-23-2006, 12:46 PM
Interesting, and I can understand why the AI are given such advantages, but no this was online.

BFawlty
06-23-2006, 02:21 PM
If I'm not mistaken isn't the dive advantage one of the things P-40 pilots relied on against the Japanese a/c? I mean they sure can't outturn a Zero.

BF

BFawlty
06-23-2006, 02:23 PM
Just reread my post, wanted to follow up, that I was offline flying a P-40 against Zero's and had one dive away from me. I just thought that was weird and then I see this thread today.

BF

FritzGryphon
06-23-2006, 03:44 PM
Be more specific in your whines. Find one specificc perfomance spec that you think is wrong, and accurately test it. If the test proves a discrepancy, send the info to the bug email (pf.1c.ru).

Vague forum whines accomplish nothing, though I'm sure we all appreciate a heads-up about proven inaccuracies.

VW-IceFire
06-23-2006, 04:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by EiZ0N:
Very provocative thread title http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

It's not right, I'm sure.

I just got out dived from 3500m by a 109, despite having height advantage. It was even faster than me on the flat.

That can't be right, surely? If the Tempest can't outrun things, it's pretty useless, no?

I think the fact that hardly anyone flies them on-line, yet plenty of people fly other BnZ planes, shows that maybe it's just plain under modelled?

Who's with me?! Or perhaps I'm an idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about? You tell me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Details please...his height and relative speed vs your height and relative speed and your engine settings as well as what angle you dived at and what manuevers you used.

He could have cut you off at the bottom of the dive, he may have been too close to you when you started the dive, any number of things could have happened.

Also keep in mind that a Bf109K-4 will probably outrun the current Tempest above 3000m and is only a few KPH slower below that. The reason being that the K-4 is a late 1944/1945 machine and the Tempest as represented is an April 1944 machine. The Tempest is slower than it would have been during its high time between September 1944 and May of 1945. Particularly between January and May 45 the Tempest was definately faster than it is here. This is because we have an earlier Sabre IIA with +9 pounds of boost. The more typical Tempest Mark V model and the one more widely used was the Sabre IIB with +11 pounds of boost pressure.

If you compare the Tempest we have with planes such as the FW190A-8 or the Bf109G-6 Late it totally outstrips them in every way...but against the very late war stuff from the Luftwaffe its not as good in present configuration. This is mostly because it cannot leverage its low altitude performance against them in any significant way. That said, you can usually give them a run for their money with its excellent handling and relatively close high speed.

Its not broken...it performs the way its supposed to...but I'm guessing you were chased by a late war Bf109 and its no surprise that he was able to keep up with you. The thing you should have done was build speed to 500 and then started manuevering and used his poor high speed control against him. The Tempest retains full control authority through virtually all combat speeds which is impressive but part of its design.

EiZ0N
06-23-2006, 05:11 PM
IceFire, thanks for that.

I think it may well have been a 109K, which totally makes sense now.

So what I should have been doing was out-turning in the dive?

Gryphon, sorry I know it's a bit whiney. It hasn't accomplished nothing though, as I know more than I did when I made this thread :P

Infact, I'll just add that I'm incredibly grateful that Oleg and co even gave us a Tempest, so I really should just shut my gob.

AFJ_Locust
06-23-2006, 07:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by EiZ0N:


Who's with me?! Or perhaps I'm an idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about? You tell me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Im with you either way m8 it should be one kick *** plane, rember we live in olegs world

VW-IceFire
06-23-2006, 08:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by EiZ0N:
IceFire, thanks for that.

I think it may well have been a 109K, which totally makes sense now.

So what I should have been doing was out-turning in the dive?

Gryphon, sorry I know it's a bit whiney. It hasn't accomplished nothing though, as I know more than I did when I made this thread :P

Infact, I'll just add that I'm incredibly grateful that Oleg and co even gave us a Tempest, so I really should just shut my gob. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yeah...what you want to do against that 109K pilot is take him somewhere fast. That dive was a great idea but you didn't completely capitalize on it given the current situation. Start to use something that the Tempest has other than speed and that is controllability. Like the FW190 and Mustang, the Tempest was meant to be flown fast and its infact QUITE happy to be fast. The 109K is fast but its not happy being there. He has to slow down to manuever...meanwhile you have full authority. What you should do in a situation like that is dive, keep the dive shallow so you're focused on speed but without sacrificing altitude too quickly. Start to initiate scissors, or a split S, or a number of spirals. Spirals were infact a favourite gettaway tactic in the Tempest because not many planes could follow a Tempest spiral diving away. Whatever you do...keep moving, keep rolling, try and force him to gain so much speed that he risks becoming a lawn dart. Soon his priorities will change and you can either escape or maybe even turn the tides on him.

The Tempest IS faster on the deck but only if you have WEP on. Manage that with prop pitch and keep the radiator open when necessary and you'll do fine. ITs VERY fast...but not as fast as it could be. Depends on the time period.

We are gathering some information to see if we can convince Oleg to give us a Tempest Mark V, 1945 with +11lb boost and a Sabre IIB engine. That'll give us some historical parity with the types of battles fought in 1945.

EiZ0N
06-23-2006, 09:11 PM
Ah, good stuff. I never considered doing high speed maneuvers I'm so used to trying to keep as much speed/energy as possible.

VW-IceFire
06-23-2006, 09:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by EiZ0N:
Ah, good stuff. I never considered doing high speed maneuvers I'm so used to trying to keep as much speed/energy as possible. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Its admittedly a tricky balance...if the opponent was a FW190 you wouldn't want to use the same technique in quite the same way. Against a FW190 I'd want to try and leverage (in that situation) the Tempests bigger wings and lower wingloading to force the FW190 into manuevers requiring large angles of attack. The Tempest will bleed speed very fast but the FW190 will too and even quicker because of higher loading.

Its all dependant on the situation. And sometimes you're just lucky http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif