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View Full Version : Will be Do335 banned online ?



alert_1
08-24-2005, 07:47 AM
With cruising speed 680 km/h and axis mounted Mk103 sniper gun I afraid so...fortunatelly enough the Red will get P47 "Almost as good as P47M" monster for little balance.

alert_1
08-24-2005, 07:47 AM
With cruising speed 680 km/h and axis mounted Mk103 sniper gun I afraid so...fortunatelly enough the Red will get P47 "Almost as good as P47M" monster for little balance.

SeaNorris
08-24-2005, 07:49 AM
No matter, we have Tempest, P-47D'M' and P-38L_Late http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

MEGILE
08-24-2005, 07:54 AM
No it won't be. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

bazzaah2
08-24-2005, 07:56 AM
I have a feeling it may well be compulsory.

Hristo_
08-24-2005, 08:13 AM
Cool plane, but in most part non-historical.

It would be nice to have in some rare missions, but too much of it would take away from 190 vs Tempests etc.

I'd rather have 262 regularly available.

SeaFireLIV
08-24-2005, 08:20 AM
As part of `what-if` campaigns, great. If FMs are well thought out good.

But if I see it flying in droves like some tubular cigar blowing everything outtta the sky, i`ll puke.

Much as I did with the 109Z.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Tvrdi
08-24-2005, 08:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hristo_:
Cool plane, but in most part non-historical.

It would be nice to have in some rare missions, but too much of it would take away from 190 vs Tempests etc.

I'd rather have 262 regularly available. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


me too...at least me262 saw combat and had a significant sucess in last months/years of the conflict....its only a pitty we cant moderate dog servers to allow only few of them in one dog....of course it would be great if we could limit numbers of all types considering their numbers in RL....thats a feature for which Oleg said, it would be included one day...but then, BoB would be on the shelves

Tully__
08-24-2005, 08:38 AM
Like quite a few other "super" planes, it will only be available in a few servers or "what if" coops. Also somewhat like quite a few of the early war "under achievers" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Ankanor
08-24-2005, 09:16 AM
Well, I will puke if I see everybody riding Johnson's boosted P-47, so so much for throwing out of body fluids and food http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif And Yes I believe it wil be banned from the more realistic servers. I have no idea if the kite flew operationally, much less if it actually managed to shoot anything down. And honestly I don't mind the P-47 late THAT much and I welcome the Mosquito and the Tempest. But on one condition: historical speeds, accelerations and climbrates of the LW birdies achievable on auto. btw, can anyone forward a link on how did the Tempest perform against the late LW, particularly the ta-152 and the dora. thanks

Kuna15
08-24-2005, 09:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tully__:
Like quite a few other "super" planes, it will only be available in a few servers or "what if" coops. Also somewhat like quite a few of the early war "under achievers" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif

F19_Ob
08-24-2005, 10:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by alert_1:
With cruising speed 680 km/h and axis mounted Mk103 sniper gun I afraid so...fortunatelly enough the Red will get P47 "Almost as good as P47M" monster for little balance. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I don't think the do335 will feature in many missions online, but heck , a session or two with crazyplanes can be fun aswell.

I don't think u have to worry about the p47 either. Even the M was not up to the 109 anyway, although the disadvantage is less and the possibility to escape will be present. Bounces and teamtactics will still be the way to go for p47's. That never changed until the luftwaffe was virtually gone.

Remember also what was thought about Ki-100 before it came? High expectations on überness but turned out to be marginally better than a zero.

No worries...
----------------------------

Although I'm not so interrested in the prototype planes and personally think the time could be used on related stuff, no one can say we don't have enough interesting planes to fly.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

alert_1
08-24-2005, 11:23 AM
As for above mentioned Me262: on AH_dedicate is Me262 regularly in pneset (the U version with 50mm gun) and guess what, only 3-4 players out of &gt;30 are flying it. So fear that *everyone* gonna be flying the uberbird are exaggerated...

Von_Zero
08-24-2005, 11:48 AM
And the fact that is that certain version doesn't have anything to do with it?

LEXX_Luthor
08-24-2005, 12:43 PM
Cool plane, and very historical for World War 2. Apparently it carried a good bombload too (forgot how much). I hope some air-ground weapons are included. This will make a great addition to potential Offline Dynamic Campaigns if the dynamic war extends far enough.

Banning 335 (or any plane) won't help create "realism" in the arcade Online FPS shooter servers. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

carguy_
08-24-2005, 12:44 PM
First off nobody said it will be included for sure.Its finished,that is all.

According to my information it blows any LW prop plane away and most other props in the game.But it actually served!In very small numbers but the existance of it DURING COMBAT is confirmed unlike those 150octan superboosted Yankee planes!

Zyzbot
08-24-2005, 01:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by carguy_:
First off nobody said it will be included for sure.Its finished,that is all.

According to my information it blows any LW prop plane away and most other props in the game.But it actually served!In very small numbers but the existance of it DURING COMBAT is confirmed unlike those 150octan superboosted Yankee planes! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Please provide a source for this. Everything I ever read stated that the DO-335 never saw combat. It has always been one of my favorite planes so I'd love to read about it if true.

lrrp22
08-24-2005, 01:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by carguy_:
First off nobody said it will be included for sure.Its finished,that is all.

According to my information it blows any LW prop plane away and most other props in the game.But it actually served!In very small numbers but the existance of it DURING COMBAT is confirmed unlike those 150octan superboosted Yankee planes! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you seriously claiming that the Do 335 has a longer combat record than 100/150 grade Mustangs or P-47's? Well over a thousand P-51/Mustang III/IV's operated on 100/150 grade fuel and hundreds of P-47's used it as well. From July to October '44 four P-47 groups, with more than 300 aircraft assigned, were using 100/150 grade fuel.

I would love to see examples of the 335's extensive combat history. IIRC, if it had any combat record at all, it never met aerial opposition.

Hristo_
08-24-2005, 01:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by lrrp22:

I would love to see examples of the 335's extensive combat history. IIRC, if it had any combat record at all, it never met aerial opposition. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Much like our P-38L Late, don't you think ? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Those two seem very similar in that regard. Let's include them both.

lrrp22
08-24-2005, 01:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hristo_:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by lrrp22:

I would love to see examples of the 335's extensive combat history. IIRC, if it had any combat record at all, it never met aerial opposition. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Much like our P-38L Late, don't you think ? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Those two seem very similar in that regard. Let's include them both. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe, but probably not. Don't forget that the 475 FG definitely flew the 'P-38J_Late' from July to the end of September of '44. The J_late would have had the same 1700+ HP levels as the P-38L_late.

Besides, the P-38L may have been able to run 66-70" Hg on 100/130 grade.

p1ngu666
08-24-2005, 01:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by lrrp22:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by carguy_:
First off nobody said it will be included for sure.Its finished,that is all.

According to my information it blows any LW prop plane away and most other props in the game.But it actually served!In very small numbers but the existance of it DURING COMBAT is confirmed unlike those 150octan superboosted Yankee planes! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you seriously claiming that the Do 335 has a longer combat record than 100/150 grade Mustangs or P-47's? Well over a thousand P-51/Mustang III/IV's operated on 100/150 grade fuel and hundreds of P-47's used it as well. From July to October '44 four P-47 groups, with more than 300 aircraft assigned, were using 100/150 grade fuel.

I would love to see examples of the 335's extensive combat history. IIRC, if it had any combat record at all, it never met aerial opposition. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

to the best of my knowledge, its combat career was entirely based on running away.

dont think it actully got into a fight.

wonder if the rotational stuff will be like the old p38, bet it would be popular if it was http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

RedDeth
08-24-2005, 01:41 PM
if the DO335 is equipped with the mk103 it will be next to useless. in b an z or dogfights. that gun wont do well.

not online. and the ammo loadout will be very very very small i would think.

now id rather have a P47-M with 150 octane fuel any day

RedDeth
08-24-2005, 01:43 PM
oh and what would be the fuel consumption at full power on the do335? i bet that bird weighed a lot

Christos_swc
08-24-2005, 01:43 PM
Actually much as I like German a/c , I don't think fighting in a Ta 152 is historical either.
It saw very little combat.
So what if the 'Pfeil' actually shot at something?
I have no problem with Doras or 262s, those birds took part in the war, but a couple of missions from the Komet and a 'what if' from the He 162 won't cut it for me.
They should be included in some servers and would be good fun offline but WWII wasn't about them and I think that means something to most people around here.

RedDeth
08-24-2005, 01:47 PM
christos your thoughts dont make sense in online combat. you cant compare the do335 or ta152s performance to the 262.

offline do whatever you want but online the DO and TA wont and dont unbalance the game. the jet does.

alert_1
08-24-2005, 02:13 PM
Do335 was heavy, max. 9600 kg take off, but reportedly was "very maneuvrable for its size" (it was as big as F15!). Mk103 had 70 rounds, 2xMg151/15 had 200 rounds each.Pierre Clostermann chased one of them, till the "Pfeil" started second engine and said "bye Pierre"

NorrisMcWhirter
08-24-2005, 02:14 PM
And what if P47-D(M)/P38L-Late unbalance the server? Will they be removed also? I doubt it.

262 is an historically suitable aircraft blighted entirely by lack of aircraft quotas and, frankly, because it's untouchable in the right hands.

Do355 will not feature much as it will inevitably cause too much lag. Ahem.

I've not seen too many accounts of Do55s in combat but they did fly on the front line;Clostermann saw a Do335 once. Or at least he thought he did - he couldn't catch it to say one way or the other.

Ta,
Norris

Zyzbot
08-24-2005, 02:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by alert_1:
Do335 was heavy, max. 9600 kg take off, but reportedly was "very maneuvrable for its size" (it was as big as F15!). Mk103 had 70 rounds, 2xMg151/15 had 200 rounds each.Pierre Clostermann chased one of them, till the "Pfeil" started second engine and said "bye Pierre" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's not how Clostermann told the story. He reported:

" The two grey trails in his slipstream showed he was using a supercharger, and the thread of white escaping from his exhausts showed he was using GM-1."

Closterman did mention that he did NOT engage his own supercharger in his own Tempest because the Do-335 was already moving close to 500mph and he would not be able to overtake it.

I guess that this would count as a combat encounter since Clostermann's wingman did fire some shots at "extreme range" at the Do-335 as it escaped.

No mention at all of starting a second engine.

Christos_swc
08-24-2005, 02:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RedDeth:
christos your thoughts dont make sense in online combat. you cant compare the do335 or ta152s performance to the 262.

offline do whatever you want but online the DO and TA wont and dont unbalance the game. the jet does. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not talking about balance.
I'm talking about historical accuracy.
To me it makes sense to be fighting somebody in a 262.
I've read a lot about WWII and so have most people around here.
Fighting in uber prototypes and super polished production ac that never saw any combat spoils it for me.
And I do not have AEP but I do know that 109Z was just a prototype and was canceled due to wing flutter probs that needed investigation but there was no time.
The 335 saw no action etc.

Kuna15
08-24-2005, 02:34 PM
OK after all that wasn't 'fantasy' plane. It apparently saw some combat service. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

But yes, if it will perform like I think it will, it will be banned on many servers. Because most servers are not about historicall accuracy as possible, but instead planeset balance.

Besides, any other approach on DukeNukem hyperlobby dogfight servers ain't right.

faustnik
08-24-2005, 02:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Christos_swc:
I don't think fighting in a Ta 152 is historical either. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why? It was used in combat, by a regular unit.

VMF-214_HaVoK
08-24-2005, 02:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by carguy_:
First off nobody said it will be included for sure.Its finished,that is all.

According to my information it blows any LW prop plane away and most other props in the game.But it actually served!In very small numbers but the existance of it DURING COMBAT is confirmed unlike those 150octan superboosted Yankee planes! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There are many confirmed instances where the P-47D was boosted. Many of these was done by the ground crew. If you would take the time to look you would find such information. And since Oleg can not add any new US models the best we get is lates.

VW-IceFire
08-24-2005, 03:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Zyzbot:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by alert_1:
Do335 was heavy, max. 9600 kg take off, but reportedly was "very maneuvrable for its size" (it was as big as F15!). Mk103 had 70 rounds, 2xMg151/15 had 200 rounds each.Pierre Clostermann chased one of them, till the "Pfeil" started second engine and said "bye Pierre" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's not how Clostermann told the story. He reported:

" The two grey trails in his slipstream showed he was using a supercharger, and the thread of white escaping from his exhausts showed he was using GM-1."

Closterman did mention that he did NOT engage his own supercharger in his own Tempest because the Do-335 was already moving close to 500mph and he would not be able to overtake it.

I guess that this would count as a combat encounter since Clostermann's wingman did fire some shots at "extreme range" at the Do-335 as it escaped.

No mention at all of starting a second engine. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Sort of mostly right.

Closterman and a wingman saw the Do-335 on one of the missions they were flying. The 335 saw them, flashed past them (which allowed Closterman to catch a glimpse of what it actually was). They gave chase, his wingman fired off a few rounds at a distance but the Do-335 was too fast.

Mention of GM-1 was made...although I wonder if that was confused (this was written during the war) with MW50 as this wasn't an extreme high altitude encounter where GM-1 would be useful. Nonetheless, some sort of engine boost was engaged. Superchargers in these engines are essentially always running...so its more the engine boost thats the big deal.

Also, Pierre never engaged his own engine boost. I forget the chapter exactly but they may have been more worried about returning to base with enough fuel at that point. Its not clear if Closterman's Tempest V would have been able to catch the Do-335 or not...

What's for certain is that the Tempest we're getting is not as good as Pierre's (late model with revised propeller blade and higher engine boost than we've seen on the in-game versions). So its not likely that our Tempest V, should it reach that almightly flyable status, will be able to successfully chase a Do-335.

As for being involved in a dogfight server...I can see some fun scenarios made with jets and late war aircraft. The other consideration will be the planes performance...although fast, Oleg mentioned that it would not be a good turn fighter at all. I can't see the majority of the standard dogfight servers being inindated with Do-335s...most of those pilots are still going to prefer to have their La-7 and Yak-3. Frankly, a well flown La-7 is probably going to be very close to the Do-335.

WOLFMondo
08-24-2005, 03:54 PM
judging by what we have in the ai tempest department it could barely outrun an i153.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by p1ngu666:
to the best of my knowledge, its combat career was entirely based on running away.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

don't knock it pingu, thats my favorite defensive tactic http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

carguy_
08-24-2005, 03:59 PM
Do335 surpasses the La7 in both speed and climb,that`s for sure.If it makes it it will be something like a Me262.Too fast to be engaged by fighters present ingame.That is why I think it will be banned.

About P47 with overboosted engines I`m talking about purposes of historical servers.
I believe the same situation will be like no with P38Llate.There are no P38J or P38L in coops.People don`t want to fly them anymore.No one cares if those superboosted planes acutally served in a certain area.

Same with P47 - whoever needs the rest of them if you have the P47M?

mynameisroland
08-24-2005, 04:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VMF-214_HaVoK:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by carguy_:
First off nobody said it will be included for sure.Its finished,that is all.

According to my information it blows any LW prop plane away and most other props in the game.But it actually served!In very small numbers but the existance of it DURING COMBAT is confirmed unlike those 150octan superboosted Yankee planes! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There are many confirmed instances where the P-47D was boosted. Many of these was done by the ground crew. If you would take the time to look you would find such information. And since Oleg can not add any new US models the best we get is lates. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

German AC were overboosted by groundcrew regularly and it is documented yet where are they in the game? Or is the introduction of 'late' models reserved for US birds only ?

Ankanor
08-24-2005, 04:22 PM
I'm not sure who actually said it but suppose it was Heinz Knocke. He basically said his Me109 would gain some 20 to 30 kmh if washed properly. No overboosting, no waxing... But you have to believe the idea that the Germans were lacking... I don't want an overboosted airplane. I want it historical, witha working komandogeraet, with historical speeds achieved on auto. Is it THAT much? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

lrrp22
08-24-2005, 04:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mynameisroland:
German AC were overboosted by groundcrew regularly and it is documented yet where are they in the game? Or is the introduction of 'late' models reserved for US birds only ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Roland,

The P-47D_Late is NOT an 'unauthorized' field mod! It is a manufacturer and USAAF approved boost level for a very common serial service aircraft. It is not a "P-47M By Any Other Name", either. The reason Oleg used that description is because 70" Hg P-47D's did have a performance that was very close to the M's at altitudes below 25,000 ft, or so.

Ankanor
08-24-2005, 04:47 PM
and also if he had dubbed it P-47M, it wouldn't have any right to be in the ETO http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Quite lucky, I must admit

lrrp22
08-24-2005, 05:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ankanor:
and also if he had dubbed it P-47M, it wouldn't have any right to be in the ETO http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Quite lucky, I must admit </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ankanor,

You're thinking of the P-47N. The M saw (intermittent) service in the ETO, and only the ETO, from January '45 to VE-Day.

LeadSpitter_
08-24-2005, 06:19 PM
YESH!

Ankanor
08-24-2005, 06:58 PM
Yes, my mistake. Well, I thought I could learn something about the P-47M. And the only information more than "rushed to Europe in December" was here (http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p47_12.html)

The first P-47M was delivered in December 1944, and they were rushed to the 56th Fighter Group in Europe. However, engine problems delayed their use until the last few weeks of the war in Europe. Underwing racks were not fitted, as the P-47M was meant to be operated strictly as a fighter.

Performance of the P-47M-1-RE included a maximum speed of 400 mph at 10,000 feet, 453 mph at at 25,000 feet, and 470 mph at 30,000 feet. Initial climb rate was 3500 feet per minute at 5000 feet and 2650 feet per minute at 20,000 feet. Range (clean) was 560 miles at 10,000 feet. Armament was six or eight 0.50-inch machine guns with 267 or 425 rpg. Weights were 10,432 pounds empty, 13,275 pounds normal loaded, and 15,500 pounds maximum. Dimension were wingspan 40 feet 9 3/8 inches, length 36 feet 4 inches, height 14 feet 7 inches, and wing area 308 square feet.

Sources:

1. American Combat Planes, Ray Wagner, Third Enlarged Edition, Doubleday, 1982.

2. The American Fighter, Enzo Angelucci and Peter Bowers, Orion Books, 1987.

3. War Planes of the Second World War, Fighters, Volume Four, William Green, Doubleday 1964.

4. United States Military Aircraft since 1909, Gordon Swanborough and Peter M. Bowers, Smithsonian, 1989.

5. The Republic P-47D Thunderbolt, Aircraft in Profile, Edward Shacklady, Doubleday, 1969.

6. Famous Fighters of the Second World War, Volume I, William Green, 1967.

7. Thunderbolt: A Documentary History of the Republic P-47, Roger Freeman, Motorbooks, 1992.

Is that what you mean by "intermittently"? and no, I'm not acting like a wise-@ss, if I were, I would ask about the meaning of "last few weeks". I could say it was the final month of battles, since if it were more than that the author would have said "the last two months of battles" or something of the sort. Also, assuming that Zemke's Wolfpack received their P-47M as a new year present, what engine problems can cause a delay of almost 3 months? Weren't the mechanics already skilled in the P-47(after all, they had already been boosting and waxing and tuning their aircraft for quite a long time)I'm sorry but I find it quite strange.My 2 eurocent.

Zyzbot
08-24-2005, 07:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ankanor:
Yes, my mistake. Well, I thought I could learn something about the P-47M. And the only information more than "rushed to Europe in December" was here (http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p47_12.html)

The first P-47M was delivered in December 1944, and they were rushed to the 56th Fighter Group in Europe. However, engine problems delayed their use until the last few weeks of the war in Europe. Underwing racks were not fitted, as the P-47M was meant to be operated strictly as a fighter.

Performance of the P-47M-1-RE included a maximum speed of 400 mph at 10,000 feet, 453 mph at at 25,000 feet, and 470 mph at 30,000 feet. Initial climb rate was 3500 feet per minute at 5000 feet and 2650 feet per minute at 20,000 feet. Range (clean) was 560 miles at 10,000 feet. Armament was six or eight 0.50-inch machine guns with 267 or 425 rpg. Weights were 10,432 pounds empty, 13,275 pounds normal loaded, and 15,500 pounds maximum. Dimension were wingspan 40 feet 9 3/8 inches, length 36 feet 4 inches, height 14 feet 7 inches, and wing area 308 square feet.

Sources:

1. American Combat Planes, Ray Wagner, Third Enlarged Edition, Doubleday, 1982.

2. The American Fighter, Enzo Angelucci and Peter Bowers, Orion Books, 1987.

3. War Planes of the Second World War, Fighters, Volume Four, William Green, Doubleday 1964.

4. United States Military Aircraft since 1909, Gordon Swanborough and Peter M. Bowers, Smithsonian, 1989.

5. The Republic P-47D Thunderbolt, Aircraft in Profile, Edward Shacklady, Doubleday, 1969.

6. Famous Fighters of the Second World War, Volume I, William Green, 1967.

7. Thunderbolt: A Documentary History of the Republic P-47, Roger Freeman, Motorbooks, 1992.

Is that what you mean by "intermittently"? and no, I'm not acting like a wise-@ss, if I were, I would ask about the meaning of "last few weeks". I could say it was the final month of battles, since if it were more than that the author would have said "the last two months of battles" or something of the sort. Also, assuming that Zemke's Wolfpack received their P-47M as a new year present, what engine problems can cause a delay of almost 3 months? Weren't the mechanics already skilled in the P-47(after all, they had already been boosting and waxing and tuning their aircraft for quite a long time)I'm sorry but I find it quite strange.My 2 eurocent. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Found this for you:

"Lt Col Dade Jr. took command of the 56th on 27 January. While the only other remaining Thunderbolt Unit - the 78th, had just converted to the Mustang, the 56th still wanted nothing to do with them. The 56th Fighter Group was the first unit in the USAAF with the P-47 and it had proven its capability with the Thunderbolt. What saved the P-47€s acquaintance with the 56th, besides the Group€s spectacular performance, was that a new long-range aircraft was on the drawing board, the P-47N. The USAAF needed an experienced Unit to field test the new airframe. Until arrival of the P-47N, an interim P-47M was delivered (essentially a P-47N without the extra internal fuel tanks). The M-model offered a much higher performance than the P-47D models, but at a severe reduction in range and endurance. The M-model was also faster than the Mustang, but recurring engine malfunctions (usually burnt pistons) began to plague the aircraft. The problem was severe enough that in March the P-51 arrived in Boxted to replace the P-47M. The 56th pilots were instructed and had commenced training on the P-51, but still used the P-47 for operational missions however. Remarkably, the M-models troubles were soon solved (notably corrosion and faulty ignition leads) and thus the Mustangs quickly disappeared from the Boxted airfield. The advent of the P-47M in earlier in January also saw to the 56th adopting special paint schemes, camouflage and markings. "

Ankanor
08-24-2005, 07:37 PM
Thanks. WOW, burnt pistons... Looks like someone overboosted http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Sorry, couldn't resist http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Atzebrueck
08-24-2005, 07:44 PM
Some sites:

http://www.do335.de.vu/

Introduction:
http://mitglied.lycos.de/luftwaffe1/do335/do335_1.html
Weight:
http://mitglied.lycos.de/luftwaffe1/do335/do335_2.html
Performance (Please note, that the diagram shows "Steig- & Kampfleistung" (~100%)):
http://mitglied.lycos.de/luftwaffe1/do335/do335_3.html

How many have been produced:
http://xplanes.free.fr/do335/do335-2.htm

Sectional view:
http://www.luchtoorlog.be/do335ds.htm


Regarding its weapons:
I think it used MG151/20 instead of the 15mm version. The later ones are quoted because official sources often list MG151 without /15 or /20. That's why some authours may have thought a MG151 without /20 has to be the 15mm version.
But as far as I know all planes that were equipped with the MG151 could carry both, the 15mm and the 20mm cannon, because both guns were nearly identical. Apart from the caliber, the only really noticable difference was the longer barrel of the MG151/15. The ammunition needed the same space.
And despite of the Me109F2 I do not know any plane, especially late war designs, carrying the MG151/15. Even the F2 has been requipped with the MG151/20 later on.
That's why in my opinion maybe only early prototypes carried the MG151/15, whereas the A0/A1 used the 20mm cannon.

But maybe one of you has got more and definite information on this issue.

p1ngu666
08-24-2005, 07:52 PM
i heard they where damaged by salt during shipping (the engines)

and yes, running away is a good defensive tatic http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

somewhat tenious active service, closterman encounter and thats it, unless anyone else brings stuff forward http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

probably if its uber be banned alot, if its mearly verygood/good/ok then itll be on more servers

Grey_Mouser67
08-24-2005, 08:04 PM
Unfortunately we will have another late war Luftwaffe uber plane...I suspect we'll see it on all the servers today that you see Ta-152's, Bf109Z's, I-185's, and Ki-84C's...

It seems after being part of this community for a couple of years that there is a strong desire by what I would call a majority to fly late war planes...this is too bad because most of the truly interesting battles and planes occurred earlier.

Instead we get to hear the allied players wishing they had late war planes to combat the lufties...and the lufties in denial around overboosted allied planes...and the allies countering again pointing out how crummy the Luftwaffe did at the end of the war...and the lufties pointing out if they only had fuel and pilots the Luftwaffe really would have been good...and on and on and on...

Give me a Spitfire Mk I, a rounded rudder Spit Mk IX, P-38F,G,H, a Mustang Mk IA, a flyable avenger a map to fly on like the solomons, maybe a whirlwind a B-25gunship or two, a Ki 21,27,44 and 45 and we'd have all kinds of cool missions...instead of wondering if allies really used 150 octane fuel or the Pheil saw action...yuck http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

lrrp22
08-24-2005, 08:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by p1ngu666:
i heard they where damaged by salt during shipping (the engines)

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yup, that was the reason- improper corrosion protection when they were shipped to England.

The M's began operations in January but were grounded rather frequently until the engine problems were isolated in March. At that point, all engines with less than 50 hours on the clock were replaced, while those that were over 50 hours were retained.

mynameisroland
08-24-2005, 08:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by lrrp22:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mynameisroland:
German AC were overboosted by groundcrew regularly and it is documented yet where are they in the game? Or is the introduction of 'late' models reserved for US birds only ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Roland,

The P-47D_Late is NOT an 'unauthorized' field mod! It is a manufacturer and USAAF approved boost level for a very common serial service aircraft. It is not a "P-47M By Any Other Name", either. The reason Oleg used that description is because 70" Hg P-47D's did have a performance that was very close to the M's at altitudes below 25,000 ft, or so. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry you have me wrong pls reread my post. I didnt say unauthorised field mod, P47 is justified but I believe Luft ac that were officially cleared by RLM for higher boost settings and used for years ( see my post reg Fw 190 derating) during WW2 should be included in the game also if we go down this road.

My question is why have USAAF late and not LW uprated versions or RAF Spit IX 25lb for that matter.

lrrp22
08-24-2005, 08:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mynameisroland:
Sorry you have me wrong pls reread my post. I didnt say unauthorised field mod, P47 is justified but I believe Luft ac that were officially cleared by RLM for higher boost settings and used for years during WW2 should be included in the game also if we go down this road.

My question is why have USAAF late and not LW uprated versions or RAF Spit IX 25lb for that matter. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Okay, I got ya. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

I'm totally on-board with the 'Late' 1.42 ata Fw 190A-4, I think it needs to get done.

WOLFMondo
08-25-2005, 01:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by carguy_:
Do335 surpasses the La7 in both speed and climb,that`s for sure.If it makes it it will be something like a Me262.Too fast to be engaged by fighters present ingame.That is why I think it will be banned.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

it ain't that good http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif at low altitude the mustang iii and tempest v will stay with it except in sustained climb. at 17,000ft the stock tempest v series 1 is actually 8mph faster than the do335.

alert_1
08-25-2005, 01:14 AM
Main advantage of Do335 against Me262 should be fast acceleraion. You dont have to nursing throttles, it's possible to firewall them and unleash all 4000 hp at once http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Kocur_
08-25-2005, 02:15 AM
As a dedicated La-7 "fan", Im interested in SL top speed of coming Do-335. The question is what was its SL top speed with DB-603A at Notleistung, i.e. "110% throttle" as it looks like DB-603A is not equipped with MW-50.
On the other hand that means nothing probably because Do-335 will probably arrive in the same patch, that La-7R will too http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif

Frankly Im not really happy about Pfeil. I would much prefer using the same criteria for all the planes in terms of performance. I mean some are modelled with average performance and some other with absolute top or test performance.

Not to mention strange criteria of dating planes...

anarchy52
08-25-2005, 02:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
it ain't that good http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif at low altitude the mustang iii and tempest v will stay with it except in sustained climb. at 17,000ft the stock tempest v series 1 is actually 8mph faster than the do335. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Gesamtgewicht von 9,5 t folgende Flugleistungen errechnet:
I'm not sure what the above text says, but 9.5t weight is with 500kg bomb in internal bay...

Game 100% throttle settings:
Kampfleistung 2*1580 PS : Vmax (0 km) = 580 km/h, Steiggeschwindigkeit 11,5 m/s&gt;
Kampfleistung 2*1470 PS : Vmax (7,1 km) = 732 km/h
At 100% throttle Do-335 is as fast as FW-190A8/9 in game at firewall the throttle, manual pitch, closed rads burn the engine settings.
I guess this is 110% + boost in game
Sondernotleistung 2*2400 PS in H¶he = 0 km (auf 10 Minuten begrenzt)
Geschwindigkeit: 660 km/h
Steiggeschwindigkeit: 23,5 m/s
Sondernotleistung 2*2200 PS in H¶he = 7,2 km
Geschwindigkeit: 813 km/h
Steiggeschwindigkeit: 16,3 m/s



About future development potential: 2 x DB603N = 5600 HP. Although it probably wouldn't get much faster it would probably have unholy acceleration and climb.

Ankanor
08-25-2005, 04:13 AM
with gross(starting) weight were achieved the following results :
Interesting, climbspeed of 11.5 m/s http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif
WEP is 2400 hp? Climbrate of 23.4 m/s that's almost a La-7 climbrate http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Holy http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Kocur_
08-25-2005, 04:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I guess this is 110% + boost in game
Sondernotleistung 2*2400 PS in H¶he = 0 km (auf 10 Minuten begrenzt)
Geschwindigkeit: 660 km/h
Steiggeschwindigkeit: 23,5 m/s
Sondernotleistung 2*2200 PS in H¶he = 7,2 km
Geschwindigkeit: 813 km/h
Steiggeschwindigkeit: 16,3 m/s </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Would be nice http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif, but I dont think so http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif. Check engines table above: 2400ps is for DB603EC, not for DB603A, which Notleistung is 1750ps. There is hope though, because the lousy 580kmh@SL and 11m/s climb was achieved at DB603A's Kampfleistung, that is 1580ps. What happenes at 2 x 170ps more and without 500kg bomb (and with little fuel http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif)?

Philipscdrw
08-25-2005, 04:54 AM
Wait a minute. Is anyone certain that the Do-335 will actually make it into the game? It was on Oleg's list of nearly-finished projects, but that doesn't guarantee that it will be added!

Or have I missed something in the last 24 hours?

DangerForward
08-25-2005, 05:20 AM
Looks to me like the biggest problem with the DO335 will be the view to the rear. Most the current LW planes have a decent or very good six view, but the Pfiel looks like it has almost none without a mirror.

Kuna15
08-25-2005, 05:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by alert_1:
Main advantage of Do335 against Me262 should be fast acceleraion. You dont have to nursing throttles, it's possible to firewall them and unleash all 4000 hp at once http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cool. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Also Do-335 should dive like brick, and outdive almost anything, because of size/weight.

And I like 103s... I can snipe at considerable range with them. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif
IMO they are much more acceptable for high speed fights than 108s.

Hristo_
08-25-2005, 05:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DangerForward:
Looks to me like the biggest problem with the DO335 will be the view to the rear. Most the current LW planes have a decent or very good six view, but the Pfiel looks like it has almost none without a mirror. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

1. It has two mirrors in glass bulges.

2. With so much speed and acceleration, who needs to look behind ? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

3. Dornier took great care of aerodynamics. In fact too much sometimes, as evidenced by sacrificed rear view. I have a 1/48 scale model of the Do-335. It is by far aerodynamically the cleanest airframe I've ever modeled, almost to the point of being unrealistically flat http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Atzebrueck
08-25-2005, 06:28 AM
I didn't model the rear-view mirrors http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.
So, the view to the rear is nonexistent :P.

About the performance:
As already noted the diagram above shows Steig- & Kampfleistung/ climb- combat-power, which is supported by the top-speed at altitude of ~725 km/h / 745 km/h, whereas it was capable of running up to ~770 km/h. And 585 km/h on the deck is too low for Notleistung, as well.

That's also based on the following site:
http://world.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?...fdo335%2fdo335-1.htm (http://world.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?lp=fr_en&amp;trurl=http%3a%2f%2fxpla nes.free.fr%2fdo335%2fdo335-1.htm)
especially its pages
8: listing prototype V9, the predecessor of the A0, with 760 km/h
11: listing prototypes V14 and V17, representing the B2 with its wing mounted MK103 and the night fighter B6 at 760 and 763 km/h
12: listing prototype V14 with ~700 km/h @ ~1000-1500m


So, I'd say the following performance values could be used for Start- u. Notleistung (110%).

DB 603 A (1750 PS)

* sealevel: 620 km/h
* 7000m: 760 km/h


DB 603 EB (1800 PS)

* sealevel: 625 km/h
* 8000m: 775 km/h (compared to the DB 603 A, the Volldruckh¶he is ~1000m higher)


DB 603 EC (2000 PS)

* sealevel: 640 km/h
* 7000m: 780 km/h


With the characteristic as shown in the diagramm.