PDA

View Full Version : I think this is interesting....V-1710 for Flug Werk 190D



wayno7777
02-24-2006, 10:57 PM
Oh, the irony....


Allison Competition Engines (ACE) in Latrobe, PA is building a specially modified Allison V-1710 12 cylinder engine for Flug Werk's new-build long-nose Focke-Wulf FW 190D, currently under construction at Gammelsdorf in Germany.
A respected company in the warbird world, ACE is following design criteria provided by Flug Werk.The Allison has been selected as the most suitable engine in the absence of working examples of the D's original Junkers Jumo 213.
They redesigned the propshaft and reduction-gear housing to allow an extension of 30cm (12in), similar in shape to the Jumo 213. The redesign was necessary because they need to position the oil and coolant radiators between the propeller-disc and the engine block as on the original 190D. This quite radical task involved a substanial number of stress calculations.
They used the latest stae- of-the-art CAD-CAM processes in the design and manufacture of the new assemblies. Rigorous trials centered on the lubrication and cooling of the forward bearing are currently under way on ACE's unique test-stand, which monitors and analyses all engine parameters. Once the engine has been fitted to the fuselage of the FW 190 at Gammelsdorf, an exhaust system will be made which will allow the exhaust gases to exit in exactly the same location as on the orginal Jumo installation.

wayno7777
02-24-2006, 10:57 PM
Oh, the irony....


Allison Competition Engines (ACE) in Latrobe, PA is building a specially modified Allison V-1710 12 cylinder engine for Flug Werk's new-build long-nose Focke-Wulf FW 190D, currently under construction at Gammelsdorf in Germany.
A respected company in the warbird world, ACE is following design criteria provided by Flug Werk.The Allison has been selected as the most suitable engine in the absence of working examples of the D's original Junkers Jumo 213.
They redesigned the propshaft and reduction-gear housing to allow an extension of 30cm (12in), similar in shape to the Jumo 213. The redesign was necessary because they need to position the oil and coolant radiators between the propeller-disc and the engine block as on the original 190D. This quite radical task involved a substanial number of stress calculations.
They used the latest stae- of-the-art CAD-CAM processes in the design and manufacture of the new assemblies. Rigorous trials centered on the lubrication and cooling of the forward bearing are currently under way on ACE's unique test-stand, which monitors and analyses all engine parameters. Once the engine has been fitted to the fuselage of the FW 190 at Gammelsdorf, an exhaust system will be made which will allow the exhaust gases to exit in exactly the same location as on the orginal Jumo installation.

Badsight.
02-24-2006, 11:17 PM
just imagine , going out to your workshop to see this :

http://imgboot.com/images/badsight/dorad13restoredyellow10.jpg

get the 1200 res version at airliners.net - awesome

wayno7777
02-24-2006, 11:25 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Haigotron
02-24-2006, 11:38 PM
I fainted thrice when I saw that image, my god...imagine:

wife - "honey, let's have some morning fun in bed"...

you - "you're right hun, nothing like making love to the lady i love the most"

.....(gets up and gets ready)

you- "she's waiting for me in the workshop, cant keep her waiting...btw, whatcha cookin tonight?"

Gibbage1
02-24-2006, 11:58 PM
So. If there going through all this trouble to find a working engine for that thing, does it mean it will fly? 80

Sort if ironic that its getting an Allison http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

csThor
02-25-2006, 12:01 AM
No more ironic than the FlugWerk Anton having a chinese version of the Ash-82FN

Of course an original BMW 801 D-2 or Jumo-213 A would be better, but there was that unfortunate incident called end of WW2 with the total shutdown of both engine's production http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

marc_hawkins
02-25-2006, 12:04 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Its funny. Grew up on a farm surrounded by machinery: tractors, rotervators, chainsaws, bits and bobs, you name it. None of them appealed much to me (unlike my mechanically minded brother) never been bothered by cars, bikes or the like, but that FW makes me wanna dive in there with a spanner and adjust something!.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif (probably good idea i don't touch anything though!)

And as to the irony... well, afer seeing a spanish 109 with a merlin engine, how can we be suprised ever again?! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

CUJO_1970
02-25-2006, 07:33 AM
It's a real shame there is no machine shop out there with the resources to do new-build Jumo-213s, BMW 801s and DB 603/605 powerplants.

Still, powerplants like the Allison and the Ash-82 are good stand-ins until a better alternative can be developed.(If that would ever be possible)

There are a couple of Antons in the US and Great Britain that are being restored to fly with real BMW 801s, but that glorious Dora-9 pictured with a real Jumo-213 is simply to valuable to fly.

From a technical enthusiast standpoint, to see these German powerplants have the care and resources/materials invested in them that they were deprived during the war would be awesome.

Chuck_Older
02-25-2006, 08:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CUJO_1970:
It's a real shame there is no machine shop out there with the resources to do new-build Jumo-213s, BMW 801s and DB 603/605 powerplants.

Still, powerplants like the Allison and the Ash-82 are good stand-ins until a better alternative can be developed.(If that would ever be possible)

There are a couple of Antons in the US and Great Britain that are being restored to fly with real BMW 801s, but that glorious Dora-9 pictured with a real Jumo-213 is simply to valuable to fly.

From a technical enthusiast standpoint, to see these German powerplants have the care and resources/materials invested in them that they were deprived during the war would be awesome. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif There's no technical aspect a proper machine shop couldn't tackle. But a machine shop is not a foundry or a metallurgical lab

For example: ACE specialises in Allison engines that have many (maybe all) problems of the original design fixed or re-engineered. Bud Wheeler makes these Allisons bulletproof and powerful engines, much more relaible and powerful than they were in WWII

But he's not in the habit of *making* crankcases and crankshafts from scratch in his shop, for instance, or he wasn't when I "talked" to him (he actually replied to an e-mail I sent to him about 5 years ago when I had a question about Allison engines experiencing a lot of blow-by. He fixes that problem right up. Nice guy, too) He needs something to work with. You'd need vast resources to fabricate a Jumo from nothing

Badsight.
02-25-2006, 09:08 AM
indeed

in fact its eaiser to go about making up the engine yourself than it is to backwards engineer an old one

to do it is entirely possible , eaisly within modern mettalurgy ability's - its just that its more work than starting anew

CUJO_1970
02-25-2006, 09:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chuck_Older:

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif There's no technical aspect a proper machine shop couldn't tackle. But a machine shop is not a foundry or a metallurgical lab

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>



I was thinking more from an economic standpoint.

AFAIK it would be extremely expensive to set up machinery, mill and manufacture these powerplants from scratch.

Would be awesome to see though.

Viper2005_
02-25-2006, 09:33 AM
At the end of the day, if you've got the <span class="ev_code_green">$</span> you can generally get stuff done.

It wouldn't be especially challenging to make new-build 213s or 801, in that all of the actual engineering has already been done.

It would just be expensive.

<span class="ev_code_RED">Where there's a Will (and a Wallet), there's a Way.</span>

Corsair_Fanatic
02-25-2006, 09:34 AM
Ah, so he does to the Allison engines much like what Jack Rouche's company does for Merlins. Nifty.

The Me-262 project was using US built engines for their production models as well. General Electric J-85s were used one the first one, and I'm not sure what they used for the second one they've completed.

danjama
02-25-2006, 01:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Badsight.:
just imagine , going out to your workshop to see this :

http://imgboot.com/images/badsight/dorad13restoredyellow10.jpg

get the 1200 res version at airliners.net - awesome </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Man that is so beautiful. I enjoyed the article on this restoration in Flypast a few months ago, it is really something to take your breath away!

Stackhouse25th
02-25-2006, 01:57 PM
cool