PDA

View Full Version : force feedback joysticks - opinions?



bubba4386
04-23-2005, 09:09 AM
Currently I'm using the X-45 (and happy with it),but,I'm considering the Saitek Evo Force
- every now and then I'll read a thread where someone says they'd never fly without FF - being able to feel the nibble of a stall before it happens, gun hits, etc., the reality factor is so great.
However, most joystick replacement discussions focus on CH, Cougar, X-52, etc. Are FF sticks the best kept secret in the sim world, or junk?

bubba4386
04-23-2005, 09:09 AM
Currently I'm using the X-45 (and happy with it),but,I'm considering the Saitek Evo Force
- every now and then I'll read a thread where someone says they'd never fly without FF - being able to feel the nibble of a stall before it happens, gun hits, etc., the reality factor is so great.
However, most joystick replacement discussions focus on CH, Cougar, X-52, etc. Are FF sticks the best kept secret in the sim world, or junk?

EiZ0N
04-23-2005, 09:32 AM
X45, isn't that a very good stick?

I use force-feedback, and I love it. You can feel plane in your hand, the shudders, every single hit...

Some might say that having to "fight the stick" makes it harder, but I doubt it makes any difference to your performance. Since you can control how much the stick throws itself around (I set this to the max).

I'm no pro at the game or an expert at how planes should feel and such, but I can't go back to a regular stick now. It feels so dead...

edit: I definately don't think they're junk. People who say that have probably never sat down to play with one for long ehough. My stick felt very strange in the game at first, so I simply turned up the default amount of springing (otherwise the stick doesnt pull to the middle and feels very limp).

Most people say how they dont like FF, infact pretty much everyone I've spoken to about it who doesn't have an FF stick...usually these people have only ever tried really old FF sticks, or bad ones, or ones that just rumble...

I have a 2 year old Saitek Force Feedback stick. The stick has it's disadvantages - only 1 hat, not the best button quality, infact not that many buttons (although enough for me), and a little throttle that sits on the back as opposed to a full fit-your-hand throttle (unneccesary?). It might not be the most comfortable stick either if you move from a right handed one, but I'm left handed so I can't complain since they won't ever make a lefty joystick

Slick750
04-23-2005, 10:21 AM
My other comp doesnt have a force feedback stick...and I suck everytime I use it, my main rig has a microsoft force feedback ..its pretty old but still in perfect shape. I know exactly when i'm about to stall and really feel the plane...I hope it still last a while...I will miss it when (if) it dies.

airdale1960
04-23-2005, 10:34 AM
I have a AVB Top Shot Pegasus and a Logitec Wingman Force 3D. The AVB is huge with strong input sometimes and light on trigger effects. It can take alot of force after a dive and trying to pull out or turn, good for compresibility feel. The Logitec wingman Force 3D is a great stick for the size but it is small and light, doesn't take much space. Good trigger effect though. They were both under $50. $48 fir the AVB, $36 the Logitec.

lucas_valentine
04-23-2005, 11:17 AM
Force feedback is great. It will improve your skill noticeably. You can fly right on the limit and feel it with your hand! I use a Microsoft SW FFB2, which is a fantastic stick, the best in my opinion. Although these are now unobtainable in shops, you will usually find a few on Ebay...but be warned they sell secondhand at the same price as new and they are not cheap!

Bearcat99
04-23-2005, 06:54 PM
The MSFFB2 is by far the best of the FFB sticks. I still have my original one from 2001 and it still works. I dont care for the gun shake but as far as flying goes it beats springs hands down. Since this sim supports multiple controllers I would advise anyone with an X-45 to get a FFB stick... from what I hear the FFB Evo is not bad... or if you already have a FFB stick I recommend and X-45. I use a FFB/X-45/CH Pedal setup that is absolutely great. The X-45 stick I use solely as a button bay. I use the X-45 throttle and te MSFFB to fly with... I have just about every programmable command you can think of on my sticks from drop tanks to comms.. and all points in between. I only touch my keyboard when I have to type.

canucksledge
04-23-2005, 07:19 PM
I've got a MSFFB2, traded up from an original metal based Thrustmaster from back in the early 90's. Won it flying in a sponsored contest for Falcon 3.0 years back, came out 2nd place. Some guy in Ontario Canada came out 1st. Lotta American Nat Guard pilots were pretty ticked, but that's another hour long rant. Got the whole shazam, the stick, the big solid aluminum rudder pedals and the programmable hotas stick, and a game card. Back then about 800USD worth of gear.

Long story short (if that's still possible) I was pretty attached to it. I was really impressed with the FFB2 and have never regretted giving up my old gear. It's a great stick. I'd really say it's a top choice for someone upgrading. Yeah, though...thge gun shake is pretty harsh, throws your aim all over the place, and sometimes makes your view change by shiggling the mouse. I think they are all like that though...I've used the Logitech one and it was the same sort of annoyance. Maybe the programmed movements for that motion were a little "enthusiastic".

EiZ0N
04-24-2005, 07:04 AM
Gunshake doesnt exactly make your life easier but it's not really a problem if you have a steady hand

JarheadEd
04-24-2005, 01:16 PM
I just picked up a MS FFB Pro for $5.00 at a thrift shop, and hope it works with my X-45. I have to get a sound card for the game port, since I have integrated sound on the MoBo. My internet research so far has shown that it will not work using a USB adapter. Anyone have any input on that?

canucksledge
04-24-2005, 05:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JarheadEd:
I just picked up a MS FFB Pro for $5.00 at a thrift shop, and hope it works with my X-45. I have to get a sound card for the game port, since I have integrated sound on the MoBo. My internet research so far has shown that it will not work using a USB adapter. Anyone have any input on that? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm almost positive I saw a joystick port that plugs into USB, for laptops....just can't remember who made it or where I saw it. It said it was 100% compatable with joystic/midi and had software/drivers as well. I'll do some research and pm you if I find it.

Or...if you gotta buy a sound card, think of it as an upgrade. Almost anything is better than on-board in most cases.

signalnorth
05-10-2005, 02:18 PM
I downloaded a patch that would make the force feedback function on my saitek work with XP. I then got the message on completion of dl that this may damage the function of the computer as it wasnt a Windows tested product or some such message! Is this astandard avoiding liabilty warning or is there a real danger I could mess my computer up if I install it? Needless to say I bottled it and didnt install. Any advice anyone?

Dew-Claw
05-10-2005, 03:25 PM
I run a Saitek FF gamepad on XP
Gave me the same message but works fine so go for it.


I dont have a ff stick, so I just throw the gamepad in my lap or next to my leg in the chair.
I still get the full effect, maybe even more real because I feel it in my whole body instead of my hands and it doesn't throw off my aim (like it matters anyway)

DuxCorvan
05-10-2005, 04:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by signalnorth:
I downloaded a patch that would make the force feedback function on my saitek work with XP. I then got the message on completion of dl that this may damage the function of the computer as it wasnt a Windows tested product or some such message! Is this astandard avoiding liabilty warning or is there a real danger I could mess my computer up if I install it? Needless to say I bottled it and didnt install. Any advice anyone? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Install it. That message just adverts you that the driver is not guaranteed by Microsoft and that you install it without Microsoft support, but Saitek is a reliable mark, so don't worry too much. Just don't install anything you don't know who's behind. This is not the case.

signalnorth
05-16-2005, 08:04 AM
Thanks for your replies. I will install it then! Very impressed with the amount of help and good manners on this site.

PriK
05-16-2005, 09:19 AM
If you don't like the shaking throwing off your aim or turbulence it's pretty easy to get rid of by renaming/deleting the appropriate files in your game directory. Personally, I'm more about the immersion so I don't care if I miss a few shots.

Last night the trigger went to he11 on me so it looks like I'll be soldering in one of the replacement switches I bought for that purpose last time it went.

leitmotiv
05-18-2005, 06:38 AM
I just junked my old Logitech Wingman Strike Force 3d F Feedback stick for a brand new Logitech Force 3D F Feedback stick. The former was my first stick when I commenced using flight sims. It was terrible! From the beginning it seemed double jointed in the fore and aft axis. This caused constant oscillation in some aircraft, particularly the Hurricane I and I-16.
In my ignorance, I thought this was due to the aircraft design. I tried to fix this with downward elevator trim on the Hurricane, but it never worked. The old stick required constant recalibration and fiddling. As it declined precipitately into senility, all trim was lost fore and aft and, at last, all lateral control was gone. The new stick is WONDERFUL. Smooth as glass for control and delivers all the wonderful force feedback effects for imminent stalls, stalls, airframe damage, and kick when some aircraft fire their guns (the earliest LaGG-3 with five guns concentrated on the nose has a noticeable kick when all are fired). I would not play without it. I understand there is a school of perfection which dislikes intensely the interference of FF in control, and treasures the smooth control of the high-end sticks which are all non-FF. All's fair. I prefer the "immersive" effect of FF. When my Yak-1 receives 20mm from a 109, I want my stick to go berserk like a moray eel on PCP. That's why FF is written into the sim's software---fighter vs fighter is not an airshow---it is a brutal form of flying---the judder tips you off that you are at the edge of the envelope. I can't imagine going without it.

F4U_Flyer
05-18-2005, 10:40 PM
Anyone have any experience with the thrustmaster topgun2 ffb? I'd like to get the separate throttle but that backside bar on the x-45 / x52 doesnt feel right.

Megafree
05-19-2005, 02:32 AM
the "good" topgun afterburner ffb:
i have that stick and i´m really upset about it!
bought it last year:
first stick i got, had an mechanical problem,
x-axis didn´t go to maximum (sofware side, but problem was an mechanical one)everything else worked fine. -&gt; went back to the shop and after an hour of speaking to the stupid guy there, explaining the problem and showing it, i got a new (second) stick.
went back home plugged it in and....
another problem:
when you pull the stick left (x-axis)the deadzone is about 2-3 times bigger then to the right but not enough, if you pull the stick left shortly after the stick comes out of the deadzone, there comes a point where the "software" goes back to center. if you pull harder it goes back to the former position an can now be pulled to max without "anymore" problems. Also the rudder on throttle (by the way it can´t be calibrated) is not correctly centered.
now i was to lazy to speak to the shop guys anymore learned to live with the prob, but it makes fliing much harder and especially precise shooting is quite hard.

if the stick would work as it should (maybe i had just bad luck with mine), it would be a great stick, ffb is fine, throttle is fine/smooth, and it has enough buttons (for me).

enemyace
05-19-2005, 04:57 PM
Well, I got to say my 6 year old Logitech Wingman Force is still the best. It's big, too bulky, and really feels solid and powerful. I have a newer Wingman Xtreme I bought a year and a half ago, tried it out for 2 days, then stuck it back in the box where it still is.