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View Full Version : Was it a dream or is Desmonded doomed? (spoilers)



Neo_Age
11-29-2009, 05:27 PM
So when Desmond gets out of the animus 2.0 and before he does his acrobatics he says hes seeing things. Lucy asks if it was just a few seconds or longer then 30, Desmond says just a few seconds to which Lucy says hes fine then (indicating that 30 seconds or longer is very bad).

Anyway Desmond follows lucy up the stairs afterwards and when he gets into the hall way sees things again and then collapses. We then have the sequence where Altair and his lover meet in Acer and conceive one of their sons (assuming they didnít have a daughter). This whole scene takes about 5 minutes if your a good player. When Desmond wakes up hes in bed and writes it off as a dream.

My question is this, was it really a dream or another hallucination? It lasted longer then 30 seconds and when he wakes up he was in bed as opposed to back in the hallway so Lucy and the others clearly found him there. Lucy strikes me as the type that knows everything there is to about the animus so I would think that finding Desmond unconscious in the hallway would be something of a major redflag to her and wouldnít dismiss it as exhaustion (especially considering Desmond said he was seeing things) yet when he wakes up she doesnít say anything.

Does anyone think Lucy isnít as much of an ally as she initially lead Desmond to believe? Does anyone think Subject 16 experienced a similar thing?

Neo_Age
11-29-2009, 05:27 PM
So when Desmond gets out of the animus 2.0 and before he does his acrobatics he says hes seeing things. Lucy asks if it was just a few seconds or longer then 30, Desmond says just a few seconds to which Lucy says hes fine then (indicating that 30 seconds or longer is very bad).

Anyway Desmond follows lucy up the stairs afterwards and when he gets into the hall way sees things again and then collapses. We then have the sequence where Altair and his lover meet in Acer and conceive one of their sons (assuming they didnít have a daughter). This whole scene takes about 5 minutes if your a good player. When Desmond wakes up hes in bed and writes it off as a dream.

My question is this, was it really a dream or another hallucination? It lasted longer then 30 seconds and when he wakes up he was in bed as opposed to back in the hallway so Lucy and the others clearly found him there. Lucy strikes me as the type that knows everything there is to about the animus so I would think that finding Desmond unconscious in the hallway would be something of a major redflag to her and wouldnít dismiss it as exhaustion (especially considering Desmond said he was seeing things) yet when he wakes up she doesnít say anything.

Does anyone think Lucy isnít as much of an ally as she initially lead Desmond to believe? Does anyone think Subject 16 experienced a similar thing?

Captain Tomatoz
11-29-2009, 05:38 PM
i think it would be awsome in the third game that desmond, while fighting the templars, also struggling to control the bleeding effect.

Also this is what subject 16 suffered from. it tells you this in the emails at the end of ac1. Also its obvious from the glyth puzzle talking that he was since he randomly comes out with things and and one point he talks about many menories at the same time.

Neo_Age
11-29-2009, 05:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tony6593:
i think it would be awsome in the third game that desmond, while fighting the templars, also struggling to control the bleeding effect.

Also this is what subject 16 suffered from. it tells you this in the emails at the end of ac1. Also its obvious from the glyth puzzle talking that he was since he randomly comes out with things and and one point he talks about many menories at the same time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So yeah but does Lucy know what is happening and has already writen him off but wont tell him? "Sorry Desmond your past the point of no return but can you keep going in to the machine for us?"

Captain Tomatoz
11-29-2009, 05:46 PM
hmmm that would be an interesting twist to the story. But by what lucy says to desmond it seems she has feeling for him http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

gsosolid
11-29-2009, 05:56 PM
Actually, I never thought of this but now that you've put it in my head it would make sense...
Remember how many times Subject Sixteen said

"She sees me lift the knife"

Does he mean Lucy?

Neo_Age
11-29-2009, 05:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tony6593:
hmmm that would be an interesting twist to the story. But by what lucy says to desmond it seems she has feeling for him http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is likely just paranoid thinking but I wonder if Lucy is a double agent for the templars. I mean for her background in the first game to check out with the fact that shes an assassin would mean she was in deep cover for years.

1. She tells Desmond this sob story about how Vivic saved her when Abstergo wanted to kill her.

2. She has a missing ring finger like Altair yet in AC2 we find that wasnt needed and later viewed as a bad thing by Altair as it was like a calling card to the templars.

3. She "helps" desmond out of his cell and all he finds are emails that cast her in a light that shes a friend.

4. During the twos escape from abstergo they dont use lethal means (and lethal means arnt used on them).

I could just be reading too much into it as well and seeing convenient coincidences where there arenít any but if the templar needed Desmond to be cooperative making Desmond believe he has a friend on the inside would be quite an effective thing for them.

Captain Tomatoz
11-29-2009, 06:02 PM
she is not missing her ring finger. she just bent it back to show she was an assassin http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Neo_Age
11-29-2009, 06:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tony6593:
she is not missing her ring finger. she just bent it back to show she was an assassin http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wouldnt the templars know about that themselves then, considering they went through 16 other subjects before reaching Desmond?

Vivic: "Lucy bend your ring finger back to make Desmond think your a fellow Assassin, like you did with Subject 16."

The Templars seem to hold all the cards in regards to information and with access to the assassin ancestors though the subjects they put in the animus it would be really easy for them to construct a convincing situation where they could mascurade one of their own as an assassin if need be.

gsosolid
11-29-2009, 08:10 PM
Okay thought it through properly.

Your saying

Lucy is a templar. Pretending to be an assassin. PRETENDING to be a templar? (As she is in AC1)

Headrush...

texas1656
11-29-2009, 08:38 PM
i think it just spoiled ac3 completely when that one guy says that u can live your ancestors without being in the animus then desmund says that would be great then the guys response is "yea but no one has ever been able to controll it" is it just me or doesnt this pretty much guarentee desmond will be the first to be able to controll it

Neo_Age
11-29-2009, 08:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gsosolid:
Okay thought it through properly.

Your saying

Lucy is a templar. Pretending to be an assassin. PRETENDING to be a templar? (As she is in AC1)

Headrush... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Like I said it may be paranoid thinking but when you look at the situation our boy Desmond is in it makes a certain kind of sense.

Desmond left his Assassin group when he was young. Unless he kept tabs on his group (which he didnt) he wouldnt know who was a friend and who was an enemy.

The Templars claim that they know everything about him which would mean they would know he doesnt know who his friends are. They use Lucy as a sort of anchor for desmond to use and make him more willing to help things along (they said they could put him in acoma but things would be easier if he was a willing partisipant).

I mean seriously, if the Templars are as powerful as they say they are then they would need to be absolute masters of deception and manipulation.

Silhouelle
11-29-2009, 09:01 PM
Personally I think Lucy has her own agenda outside of both the assassins and templars, regardless as to whether she's a member of one of them or not.

AcNe92
11-29-2009, 09:01 PM
Alright, I've got a lot to say. I'll address some topics that have been brought up, including the dream/illusion situation.

Texas: Just because Shaun said that no one has done it before doesn't mean Desmond is going to do it, thats is a common illusion for foreshadowing that a lot of people buy into. It often turns out that way, but in this series, nothing has turned out the way we've thought it would so don't get your hopes up.

Neo: If Lucy were a Templar, then why would she train Desmond to become a better assassin and let him discover information that the templars already know from subject 16? Subject 16 was the Templars biggest captive, for [****SPOILER***] Subject 16 was a descendent of Adam and Eve and after you unlock all the "Truths" in AC2 it shows them running off with the Apple.

Also, I believe that the Altar hillutionation wasn't noticed by Lucy because, Desmond fell, but continued to move as Altar (in his mind) and this is a pretty wild thing to say, but he probably just walked to his bed and slept, but in his head he was chasing after Maria and getting down. And after he laid down it became a dream. Thats my thought.

Neo_Age
11-29-2009, 09:17 PM
As Neraelia pointed out, Lucy could have her own agenda. She could be attempting to get herself in a position to be the one to weld the power the templars are attempting to get ahold of. Remember she said Vivic classified alot of subject 16 sessions. If she has ambitions to take over she may not nessessaryly have access to information such as The Truth files and where the Vaults are located.

Also take into consideration that Lucy has innocent blood on her hands when it comes to the previous subjects, even if she didnt actually pull any perverbial trigger. This would certainly be a breech of the first rule of the creed, not ot harm the innocent.

Again I want to reitterate that this is just speculation on my part but Lucy just strikes me as knowing more then she is letting on.

AcNe92
11-29-2009, 09:25 PM
Well, Of course she knows me than she lets on. If she told Desmond everything, he may not work with her. You must also take into consideration that even though assassin's follow the creed, there are few assassin's left, so for Lucy to seem to be undercover she must perform certain acts that aren't good.

Plus this is modern day and rules change, but the creed would still hold some power over their actions.

I agree that Lucy may have a hidden agenda, but I don't believe it to be one that would some how double cross Desmond and the Assassins. But maybe something along the lines of ending the war completely.

Heres a Thought: What if Lucy is a descendent of one of the Creators? Or someone of great power in the past?

Silhouelle
11-29-2009, 09:27 PM
Lets not forget the letter in the game manual too, though I've not seen anyone other than myself ever reference it. &lt;.&lt;;

Anyway, Lucy emailing what I assume is Shaun and Rebecca (though its receiver isn't named), the email is titled "The Plan", and Lucy says "its time to try our machine on Desmond. If this works, he'll be one of the most powerful men alive by the time we're done".

So even if she is working for the assassins and all that, she obviously has plans for Desmond beyond his knowledge. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

AcNe92
11-29-2009, 09:38 PM
I haven't read that yet, but thanks for telling me. I shall read that right away.

Their Machine, is there animus, I'm guessing. And my hypothesis on "Most Powerful Man" statement probably has to do with the bleeding effect and the knowledge he obtained. Obviously the Gods/Creators choose him, due to the final cutscene.

AcNe92
11-29-2009, 09:48 PM
Exactly! Thats what I was saying, but I forgot the most important qoute of the whole story/game! Thank you.