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the_rydster
04-08-2004, 12:08 PM
I am fairly new to this game so I just wanted to know the best tactics for attacking bombers especially when they are flying in formation.

I have learned by now that to take them on from the 6 is asking for trouble....the only time I do this now is if I have extreme speed, and I approach from the side and quickly sit in the 6 position and then zoom off. I think it is best to pick on a bomber on the far left or right as this limits your exposure to the MG's.

I am favouring attacking first from 12 where you can put a burst through the canopy/nose, and then either doing a loop the loop (excuse the lame terminology!) and coming back down on them or going left or right in a broad turn and coming in from the side.

If you come in from the top you get a big target but if you come in from the side you get all the enemy bombers on one plane so you can hit a couple if you are lucky (assuming they do not break formation).

I am not finding it easy getting my shots on target from above or the side to be honest, the closure speed is so great and you have to get your angles right from the start of the manouver......it is not easy to judge the lead. It is also a waste of ammo quite often.

I read something about avoiding giving the enemy gunners a silloutte....not sure what was meant by that....I assume in means not cruising along too close to the bombers?

the_rydster
04-08-2004, 12:08 PM
I am fairly new to this game so I just wanted to know the best tactics for attacking bombers especially when they are flying in formation.

I have learned by now that to take them on from the 6 is asking for trouble....the only time I do this now is if I have extreme speed, and I approach from the side and quickly sit in the 6 position and then zoom off. I think it is best to pick on a bomber on the far left or right as this limits your exposure to the MG's.

I am favouring attacking first from 12 where you can put a burst through the canopy/nose, and then either doing a loop the loop (excuse the lame terminology!) and coming back down on them or going left or right in a broad turn and coming in from the side.

If you come in from the top you get a big target but if you come in from the side you get all the enemy bombers on one plane so you can hit a couple if you are lucky (assuming they do not break formation).

I am not finding it easy getting my shots on target from above or the side to be honest, the closure speed is so great and you have to get your angles right from the start of the manouver......it is not easy to judge the lead. It is also a waste of ammo quite often.

I read something about avoiding giving the enemy gunners a silloutte....not sure what was meant by that....I assume in means not cruising along too close to the bombers?

Cardinal25
04-08-2004, 12:12 PM
AI gunners do not have a problem seeing you no matter what you do.

Attacking from the front is the only way to really survive.

A less successful tactic is high angle slashing attack from above at 4 or 7 positions.

Both cases only give you a split second of firing time so you'll have to make several passes unless you have a 30mm+ uber cannon or if you're in an LA/KI-84.

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pcpilot_MGG
04-08-2004, 12:18 PM
Rydster, it sounds like you are learning. yes the deflection shot is very difficult. Few are/were masters of it. The head on attack can kill the pilots thus gaining a kill. I have also sometimes tried burts into gun positions to kill the gunner and weaken return fire on the tougher, more resilient bombers, but this is very difficult.
Cadinal is essentially correct. The Germans found that attacks against heavily armed bombers were very dangerous, espesially from the rear quarters. However, the danger can be minimized to some extent by knowing the aircrafts' blind spots if any, or at least the angle you can attack with the minimum of fire directed your way. In the B-17, this would be front or from directly below. Keep in mind, most bombers had an upper turret. Keep your speed up to reduce time in range/field of fire. and lastly, pray...

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TacticalSkirmsh
04-08-2004, 12:22 PM
Best is a frontal attack for obvious reason - they have no protection. Second best is from above to avoid their gunners.

In any event, speed is critical.

Staying on their six, especially with a similar speed, is suicide (especially given the AI's aiming).

A bunch of bombers flying in formation ought to be tough to attack, unless you have squadmates with you and you're moving much faster than the bombers.

As always, cockpits, engines and wings are the targets to go for. With the He-111 try also for the location where the wing connects to the fuselage (location of tanks?). Shooting from the six just fills the empty space of the rear fuselage with bullets.

Also, re-calibrate your gun convergence higher if its less than 300 metres since you probably won't be able to get that close. Finally, assess your aircraft - what's the strength of it's guns/cannons and armourment.

Regards

"I am not a good shot. Few of us are. To make up for this I hold my fire until I have a shot of less than 20 degree deflection and until I'm within 300 yards. Good discipline on this score can make up for a great deal." (Lt. Colonel John C. Meyer, USAAF)

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GAU-8
04-08-2004, 01:15 PM
about the silloute,

giving (in real life ) the target a smaller section to get a bead on you is what you want. for example, if your diving on a bomber, after you shoot, keep that dive for a bit, once out of thier gun range, then move to set-up your next attack. most mistakes i see by guys who do excellent attacks on us bomber guys is that they pick up all this steam on a dive, power out of it.. then decide to break off by turning 90 degrees... that now makes a HUGE target for us/AI gunners to hit becuse the entire profile of the aircraft is now showing. and they lost all of their energy. follow thru on the dive.

Usberet
04-08-2004, 02:04 PM
Kill the pilot, kill the plane :-) aim for the cockpit, avoid the guns, come from straight above.

the_rydster
04-08-2004, 03:36 PM
Ok thanks, I hear what you are saying expecially about the sillouette......it is only recently I have discovered the 'boom and zoom' approach anyway, I think it is definately counter intuative to go easy on the control surfaces, when I started I was yanking all over the places to get back to the 6 asap, and wondering why I was getting wasted.

Seems to me that the German fighters with wing cannons/pods are best for the 'boom and zoom' tactic because you want to me able to do lots of damage quick if you only get 1/4 sec to fire. I am a little dissapointed at the Russian fighters with there lame guns sometimes....I love the LA-5 but 2 cannons is not enough for this tactic (for a lame gunner like me anyway1).

I'll check for blind spots to.

73GIAP_Milan
04-09-2004, 04:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I love the LA-5 but 2 cannons is not enough for this tactic (for a lame gunner like me anyway1).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I strongly disagree...i'm a diehard LA5FN pilot and those 2 cannons are more then suitable for the task..just get your convergence right.. (mine is 120M Maximum) and aim for cockpits, engines, fueltanks, bombbays (from above) and radiators...
Use head-on tactics and keep your speed up..
Shots from above and the side are hard, due to the lower ROF of those 2 cannons, but can be done...

I have tracks from IL2 Sturmovik, where i kill 3 Heinkel HE-111's in 1 pass and severely damage another one...AI on ACE level...
TBH- Heinkels are easy targets for PK's (Pilot Kills) but the same can be done to PE-8's and B17's with relative ease, using the LA5...

Just learn to aim well http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Good luck and Salute!

Regards,

Der Tote Baron a.k.a. SK_Black_Knight....
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Vortex_uk
04-09-2004, 05:03 AM
You can drop bombs on them! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

I made a track of it once...me and some of our squad were taking BF-109s with bombs,one took a TB-3 and you have to keep above it as close as you can get to it...then drop your load...BOOM! tried dive boming it,but missed most times.

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LeChuck___
04-09-2004, 05:08 AM
S!

Der_Tote_Baron, do you have any tracks available? I would really like to improve my bomber kill skills by trying some of the tactics you pro's use...

Regards,

TgD Thunderbolt56
04-09-2004, 06:44 AM
Use rockets before they can take off? Seems it would be quite effective to me.



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73GIAP_Milan
04-09-2004, 06:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>S!

Der_Tote_Baron, do you have any tracks available? I would really like to improve my bomber kill skills by trying some of the tactics you pro's use...

Regards,<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I still have those tracks but remind that they are for IL2 Sturmovik (Original il2) NOT Forgotten Battles...

Contact me in private topics, then if you still want them, i'll sent them...i have no means of hosting them or something...

And i only consider myself to be an "average pilot" there are guys out here that are Lightyears better than me.. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Salute!

Regards,

Der Tote Baron a.k.a. SK_Black_Knight....
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LeChuck___
04-09-2004, 08:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Der_Tote_Baron:
I still have those tracks but remind that they are for IL2 Sturmovik (Original il2) NOT Forgotten Battles...

Contact me in private topics, then if you still want them, i'll sent them...i have no means of hosting them or something...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, I thought FB is backward compatible with IL2. I guess I am wrong ha? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

I've only recently ordered FB and AEP, still waiting for the delivery guy. BTW, I've downloaded the IL2 demo. Would that play IL2 tracks properly? I mean, demo version has a small set of aircrafts. I donno what it would display when there is a He111 on the track...

Anyway, I will PM you mate. Thanks...

Regards,

Curly_109
04-09-2004, 08:48 AM
listen: if ya have Mk108 cannon in nose of your A/C (or similar allied cannon 20mm&gthttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif there should be no problem. just make sure they are below ya (600-1000m) turn an dive almost vertically on them (like stuka http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif)... and pull the trigger. if you have less powerfull armament repeat untill success.

good luck

cheerz

Maj_Death
04-09-2004, 11:11 AM
The two most dangerous bombers are by far the B-17G and Pe-8. Both these bombers have extremely heavy rearward firing defensive armament. They do however have some weak points. As has been said, frontal attacks can be very effective if you are a good marksman. My first pass is almost always a frontal assault. The lead bomber rarely survives http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. I don't use slashing attacks much in the sense of attacking from the sides but I do like to use vertical slashing attacks. The key is to move rapidly across the gunners field of fire while also limiting the number of gunners who can fire on you. Attacking from high above or far below at high speed makes it so only 1 gunner from each plane can attack you at any given time. Of course you only get short periods of time to aim and fire with this approach but that is not a problem if you fly a decent interceptor such as the Bf-110G2 or Fw-190A. If you are flying a Bf-109F2, forget it. You arn't going to down anything in that bird http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif.

Another approach that I have found effective is sniping them at long range from direct six. This is suicide if the bombers are escorted but if they are unescorted then it is the safest way. Sit about 600-1000m away with a tough, well armed interceptor (read as Bf-110G2, Fw-190A or P-38) and pound them from beyond their gunners effective range. Or you can try to kill some of the gunners and then move in closer to finish them off.

Another useful thing to do is break the enemy formation up. Aim for engines, even if you don't kill the bomber in the first pass that way you can force them to drop out of formation. This makes it much safer to finish them off.

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jeroenrepk
04-09-2004, 11:30 AM
I've read a lot about the "boom and zoom" tactic. I can imagine that this means going in realy fast, but how exactely does this tactic work?

from which angle do you attack for instance?

clint-ruin
04-09-2004, 11:35 AM
Just to add to what has been said so far [all good advice]:

Be aware that you do not have to pound a bomber until it explodes in midair. For most bombers, an engine fire or especially a fuel tank fire is a death sentence. Light them up and leave them alone.

You want to reduce your exposure to the gunners, and present any gunners you can't avoid with the hardest possible target. High speed and high approach angle passes work best for this. You want to be going at least 150-200Kmh faster than the bomber at any time you are in the gunners firing range. If you can keep your speed up to around 550-600Kmh+ [preferably diving to attain 700-800kmh] throughout the entire duration of the pass it's very unlikely you'll be hit.

Rear aspect attacks are to be avoided if at all possible. Not only are you exposed to the heaviest concentration of gunners fire, your shots are less likely to strike the engines or fuel systems, and very likely to get intercepted by the bombers tailplane. If you have to attack from the rear, make sure you're doing it in a very steep dive that allows you to lead your shots into the cockpit or engines.

Frontal attacks from straight 12 o'clock on become much easier if you approach from slightly off-centre, and use the rudder to point your planes nose at the target. This also pretty much ruins the nose turrets gunnery solution on you.

Don't go crazy hunting bombers, either. If you can get even a couple of B-17s per mission you're doing amazingly well by real world standards. In FB - and in particular the ******ed gunners of AEP - you can get around 5 or 6 per mission with practice, but don't get too greedy. With the serious big gun planes like the P-39/63, Yak9T/K, Me262, etc, you can bag double digits per mission [especially against medium bombers], but remember that the longer you hang around gunners the greater the chance of collecting fire.

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El Turo
04-09-2004, 11:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Another useful thing to do is break the enemy formation up. Aim for engines, even if you don't kill the bomber in the first pass that way you can force them to drop out of formation. This makes it much safer to finish them off.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


After the head-on merge, this is my preferred method as well. I usually come in from directly above or directly below and aim for engine nacelles. Once they start falling back they are individually much less able to fend you off.

The quickest way to neutralize a bomber is to just aim for the nose, though. If you kill the pilot and co-pilot, that's an instant game over and you'll see chutes popping out right away.

When setting up for your vertical attack, make sure that you are actually a little bit AHEAD of your targeted formation so that when you come down, you don't have to flatten out for a high Gee load firing opportunity. You want to be as unloaded on the stick as you can when firing to maximize the damage in as concentrated of an area as possible.

!S

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plumps_
04-09-2004, 12:11 PM
About Tracks in IL-2 and FB: TRKs are not compatible with different versions of the program. They work only in the exact patch version they were recorded with. After each new patch the program won't play the old tracks. In FB there is also the .ntrk format which is compatible with all versions of FB, but is less accurate.


To attack bombers use fast aircraft with large guns and good armor. Aircraft with radial engines generally are better suited that those with inline engines as the latter can be easily killed with a single bullet to the engine.

Here (http://home.arcor.de/rayluck/sturmovik/030401-FB20-2-FW190A9-8B17-8kills.zip) is a track for FB/AEP 2.0 where I shoot down 8 B-17s in a FW-190 A-9 with 30 mm cannons. It's not perfect (I have to glide back to base), but it was fun.

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mortoma
04-09-2004, 01:35 PM
[QUOTE]If you are flying a Bf-109F2, forget it. You arn't going to down anything in that bird http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif.[QUOTE] I disagree, I can down anything in the F2, you have to be a good shot, which is my strong suit.

AlGroover
04-10-2004, 06:44 AM
All of the above and......tell your wingman to do it!