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delinker
06-28-2004, 09:07 AM
I'm not an aeronautic engineer or a specialist in describing turning rates, et al, so forgive my lack of information in this post. I do have a question/observation concerning enemy AI planes: they don't seem to follow the Law of Physics as it applies to human pilots and their mounts. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif

I've been flying a mission with the Bf-109Z4 and 109G-14 on one of the new "empty grass maps" involving several waves of fighters (Hurricane, P51, P40, P38, and Spitfire) and no matter what I do it seems that the enemy AI can out climb, out turn and out run me. Watching these birds on the replay you can clearly see them pulling manuevers that would stall a human pilot and generally flying like they have anti-gravity pods mounted under the wings. I'm not complaining about the competetion as a mission without a challenge is pointless; however, I can't abide chasing a P38 into a 10 degree climbing turn and watching the guy just disappear on me. Anything I do to keep up is inadequate is seems. The situation usually ends up with me stalling out trying to keep up with them in these crazy @ss turns and jinking moves they pull. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/1072.gif

I've flown all of the above mentioned fighters against 109's and the effect is the opposite as I'm thinking "what the heck is wrong with this P40 and why can't it keep up?" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

I'm no Ace by far but I can hold my own against enemy fighters and my playbook isn't totally devoid of "fancy flying". But I really think that the AI is not bound (in some cases) by the same law of gravity that affects human pilots.

Your input/opinions/suggestions are very much welcome

Victurus te Saluto

delinker
06-28-2004, 09:07 AM
I'm not an aeronautic engineer or a specialist in describing turning rates, et al, so forgive my lack of information in this post. I do have a question/observation concerning enemy AI planes: they don't seem to follow the Law of Physics as it applies to human pilots and their mounts. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif

I've been flying a mission with the Bf-109Z4 and 109G-14 on one of the new "empty grass maps" involving several waves of fighters (Hurricane, P51, P40, P38, and Spitfire) and no matter what I do it seems that the enemy AI can out climb, out turn and out run me. Watching these birds on the replay you can clearly see them pulling manuevers that would stall a human pilot and generally flying like they have anti-gravity pods mounted under the wings. I'm not complaining about the competetion as a mission without a challenge is pointless; however, I can't abide chasing a P38 into a 10 degree climbing turn and watching the guy just disappear on me. Anything I do to keep up is inadequate is seems. The situation usually ends up with me stalling out trying to keep up with them in these crazy @ss turns and jinking moves they pull. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/1072.gif

I've flown all of the above mentioned fighters against 109's and the effect is the opposite as I'm thinking "what the heck is wrong with this P40 and why can't it keep up?" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

I'm no Ace by far but I can hold my own against enemy fighters and my playbook isn't totally devoid of "fancy flying". But I really think that the AI is not bound (in some cases) by the same law of gravity that affects human pilots.

Your input/opinions/suggestions are very much welcome

Victurus te Saluto

Tully__
06-28-2004, 09:11 AM
You got it right. In order to ease the load on your computer and produce better game performance, the AI have a less complex flight model. This allows the AI programming to be quite a bit simpler and easier for your computer to run, while still being more sophisticated than just trying to pull a tighter turn than you.

Until PC's are a very great deal faster than they are today, PC combat flight sims will always suffer compromises like this.

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DeBaer.534
06-28-2004, 09:11 AM
its a fact that AI has easier physics and flight dynamics. otherwise your pc wouldnt be able to calculate all the actions for the AI and simultaneously let you play the game http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

DeBaer.534
06-28-2004, 09:12 AM
ehm well, Tully was faster... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

delinker
06-28-2004, 10:24 AM
Well fair enough, I guess. That makes as much sense as anything I could have come up with!

I suppose it's a necessary evil to be dealt with. Thanks to all for your input! Now at least I know it's not just me http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

Victurus te Saluto

RocketDog
06-28-2004, 10:47 AM
The AI is at its oddest on Ace setting. Average and Veteran seem to be not too far from what a player-flown aircraft can achieve.

Regards,

RocketDog.

cueceleches
06-28-2004, 10:53 AM
As an offline player most of the time, I find AI enemy aircrafts quite challenging most of the time, but not so uber...I´m quite happy with their performance, including my own squadron AI.

Maybe I´m too conformist?

AdEridanus
06-28-2004, 11:23 AM
Considering current AI limitations, it seems to be a decent compromise. Since the AI seem to always follow "line of sight" tactics (meaning once they see you they attempt to lock in on the quickest, most overt path), if they were also restricted to player physics, every battle would become a turkey shoot for the player. The AI won't practice true BnZ, nor will they attempt to gain a tactical advantage through indirect appropaches. They do, however have the ability to lay into you with several 20 second bursts, and I would like to see that cut down!

You are right though, it is annoying when you're at 450+ kph, watching that little dot get smaller and smaller.....

Aero_Shodanjo
06-28-2004, 11:30 AM
About that "Super AI", I'll add my 2 cents here...

Ive read so many times in this forum that the AI seems to have eyes in their six (or RWR if you please) that detects bullets(!!!) approaching and enable them to take evasive actions just in time to save their *ss.

Ive the same problems too. Too often whenever AI planes are just inside the convergence range, when i pulled the trigger they simply break and escape. Some said that this problem is fixed in the new 2.02 patch, but IMO, I cant see any difference (got to admit, i downloaded the unofficial patch but the AI is basically has the same "Uber" IQ regarding that matter).

Still too smart, perhaps? Or do we really need a "dumber" AI?

"Air Power, ...Its mistery is half its power."

Aero_Shodanjo
06-28-2004, 11:37 AM
Oh, btw, i do like the tendencies of some AI pilots (?) to engage dogfighting in vertical, rather than keep on turning, and turning, and turning, and turning....

'til the cows get home...

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"Air Power, ...Its mistery is half its power."

tvih
06-28-2004, 03:06 PM
Heh, I noticed this very thing on the very first time I tried dogfighting. It was impossible to even try to keep up with the maneuvers of a supposedly lesser plane. It outclimbed, outeverything me, and it wasn't just a question of skill. Now that was annoying http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Blutarski2004
06-28-2004, 03:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by delinker:
I'm not an aeronautic engineer or a specialist in describing turning rates, et al, so forgive my lack of information in this post. I do have a question/observation concerning enemy AI planes: they don't seem to follow the Law of Physics as it applies to human pilots and their mounts. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif

I've been flying a mission with the Bf-109Z4 and 109G-14 on one of the new "empty grass maps" involving several waves of fighters (Hurricane, P51, P40, P38, and Spitfire) and no matter what I do it seems that the enemy AI can out climb, out turn and out run me. Watching these birds on the replay you can clearly see them pulling manuevers that would stall a human pilot and generally flying like they have anti-gravity pods mounted under the wings. I'm not complaining about the competetion as a mission without a challenge is pointless; however, I can't abide chasing a P38 into a 10 degree climbing turn and watching the guy just disappear on me. Anything I do to keep up is inadequate is seems. The situation usually ends up with me stalling out trying to keep up with them in these crazy @ss turns and jinking moves they pull. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/1072.gif

I've flown all of the above mentioned fighters against 109's and the effect is the opposite as I'm thinking "what the heck is wrong with this P40 and why can't it keep up?" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

I'm no Ace by far but I can hold my own against enemy fighters and my playbook isn't totally devoid of "fancy flying". But I really think that the AI is not bound (in some cases) by the same law of gravity that affects human pilots.

Your input/opinions/suggestions are very much welcome

Victurus te Saluto<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


..... You are indeed correct. The offline AI FM's are a pet peeve of mine and have to a large degree ruined that aspect of the game for me. Essentially the human player flies a pretty well modelled WW2 fighter in an air combat environment little better than what you might find in "Crimson Skies".

I think I understand all the reasons why it was done. But the net result is unrealistic and frustrating. For me, it simply ruins the atmosphere, to coin a phrase.

BLUTARSKI

jazman777
06-28-2004, 04:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aero_Shodanjo:
Too often whenever AI planes are just inside the convergence range, when i pulled the trigger they simply break and escape. Some said that this problem is fixed in the new 2.02 patch, but IMO, I cant see any difference (got to admit, i downloaded the unofficial patch but the AI is basically has the same "Uber" IQ regarding that matter).
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Just saw discussion about this in another thread. Seems that the AI knows your convergence setting, playing with the convergence plays with the AI break point.

Mort-Fauchante
06-28-2004, 04:44 PM
Well, I generally fly against "Average" enemies, as I dislike it when a"Veteran" blasts me with a single shot from a .75 distance. At an attack from 6 o'clock, these AI guys also keep shooting (and hitting!) from a .55 distance, which is insane; for me as a animal instinct pilot, everything over .45 is a waste of ammo.
The only other thing that really annoys me is that you quite likely fail to get your men home in a piece, because they don't break off combat in time and often enough don't head straight for their base when they are damaged - and you can't order single planes back home or order the pilot to bail out! Not too good, in my opinion!

Apart from that, I feel like the AI has improved along with the updates, and I consider the AI to be not too bad!

Just my 2 cts

LMF

_VR_ScorpionWorm
06-28-2004, 04:52 PM
I noticed this along time back, but I didnt want to say anything. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif I eventually learned not to follow them into a turn or only attack when I have an E advantage. I was playing the Experten campaign yeterday and came across 3 I153s, now I know these things are maneuvourable(sp?) but they were pulling some crazy moves, I just extended away and repositioned my attack again. Only problem is you can become an Ace against Ace AI but when online your tactics dont seem to work well so you have to learn all over again. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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BitwiseOp
06-29-2004, 06:22 AM
One of my pet peeves is enemy fighters pulling 'high alpha' attacks when practicing lead turns on merges against veteran / ace AI. Seems like they can pull 20+ degrees AoA to bring their guns to bear and they invariably chew your plane to ribbons if you get the merge even slightly wrong :/

delinker
06-29-2004, 10:27 AM
Listening to all of your comments, I realize that I'm not alone in my frustrations! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

The enemy AI do some very strange things, indeed. Beyond the issue of flight dynamics, there are other Strange Issues with regard to AI behavior. For exampld, I've had bandits fly right past me to get at my Lead when they could have shredded my plane instead. Other times they ignore our flight altogether and seem bound and determined to stick to their waypoints.

Last night my mate and I had one AI wingman, Black 7, that was amp'd beyond control. He would pounce on any target even if it were 'occupied' at the time! I almost got shredded by this fool in his determination to kill my target http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

The other wingmate, Black 8, just did his job and never made a fuss about it. My Lead and I were quite amazed and were wondering what would cause this particular wingmate to act so aggressively? All squadron craft were set to Veteran status; as I noted, Black 8 flew with restraint; Black 7 was a menace to anything with wings including myself and the Lead. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif

Nonetheless this game is beyond fun to play. The dynamics encountered during each mission is a guarantee that you will never fly the same mission twice http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Victurus te Saluto

Aero_Shodanjo
06-29-2004, 10:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by delinker:
...
Last night my mate and I had one AI wingman, Black 7, that was amp'd beyond control. He would pounce on any target even if it were 'occupied' at the time! I almost got shredded by this fool in his determination to kill my target http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

The other wingmate, Black 8, just did his job and never made a fuss about it. My Lead and I were quite amazed and were wondering what would cause this particular wingmate to act so aggressively? All squadron craft were set to Veteran status; as I noted, Black 8 flew with restraint; Black 7 was a menace to anything with wings including myself and the Lead. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif

Nonetheless this game is beyond fun to play. The dynamics encountered during each mission is a guarantee that you will never fly the same mission twice http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Victurus te Saluto<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It seems that...

The Black 7 had some difficulties in controlling his temper while Black 8 is more emotionally stable.

Have a talk to Black 7. It'll help, you know, war stress. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

Or perhaps Black 7 still cant accept the fact that he was born as AI???

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

"Air Power, ...Its mistery is half its power."

Tully__
06-29-2004, 11:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by delinker:
Last night my mate and I had one AI wingman, Black 7, that was amp'd beyond control. He would pounce on any target even if it were 'occupied' at the time! I almost got shredded by this fool in his determination to kill my target http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Element leaders (usually odd numbers) are a lot more aggresive than their wingmen (usually even numbers).

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Salut
Tully

Capt._Tenneal
06-29-2004, 11:24 AM
You got it right. In order to ease the load on your computer and produce better game performance, the AI have a less complex flight model. This allows the AI programming to be quite a bit simpler and easier for your computer to run, while still being more sophisticated than just trying to pull a tighter turn than you.

Until PC's are a very great deal faster than they are today, PC combat flight sims will always suffer compromises like this

Tully,

Do you know if, when you set your own plane to Autopliot in a fight, your Autopliot also uses this "easier AI flight model" ?

Tully__
06-29-2004, 11:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Capt._Tenneal:

Do you know if, when you set your own plane to Autopliot in a fight, your Autopliot also uses this "easier AI flight model" ?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, it does, but only while the autopilot is engaged.

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Zayets
06-29-2004, 11:42 AM
That is a very interesting theory Tully,but what FM needs a plane which is simply navigating its waypoints?I believe it's just a box in the sky.Able to receive some punches from other AI's.That's it,flying straight and level,of course if it doesn't have to turn for the next waypoint.

Zayets out

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Tully__
06-29-2004, 11:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zayets:
That is a very interesting theory Tully,but what FM needs a plane which is simply navigating its waypoints?I believe it's just a box in the sky.Able to receive some punches from other AI's.That's it,flying straight and level,of course if it doesn't have to turn for the next waypoint.

Zayets out

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/Zayets-sigIAR.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Capt._Tenneal:
...when you set your own plane to Autopliot in a fight...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

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Salut
Tully

Zayets
06-29-2004, 12:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tully__:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zayets:
That is a very interesting theory Tully,but what FM needs a plane which is simply navigating its waypoints?I believe it's just a box in the sky.Able to receive some punches from other AI's.That's it,flying straight and level,of course if it doesn't have to turn for the next waypoint.

Zayets out

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/Zayets-sigIAR.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Capt._Tenneal:
...when you set your own plane to Autopliot __in a fight__...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

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Salut
Tully<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yesssir,that was my point also. In a flight. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Zayets out

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Tully__
06-29-2004, 12:03 PM
No "L" in my version... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Edit: one of the funniest things (or most annoying for some people) was watching my own plane under autopilot do a 180 degree heading change in about 100m with no banking....

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Zayets
06-29-2004, 12:10 PM
Yes,is for that I am saying with an "L",because I hardly doubt your plane could fight when you put it on autopilot.It follows waypoints if you are leader,or it follows the leader if you are wingman.Or at least it behaves like that in my case.About 90 degree dive AI is able,I believe this is an anomaly,usually I don't put my plane on auto.

Zayets out

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Tully__
06-29-2004, 12:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zayets:
Yes,is for that I am saying with an "L",because I hardly doubt your plane could _fight_ when you put it on autopilot.It follows waypoints if you are leader,or it follows the leader if you are wingman.Or at least it behaves like that in my case.About 90 degree dive AI is able,I believe this is an anomaly,usually I don't put my plane on auto.

Zayets out

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/Zayets-sigIAR.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Same here, but it will fight last time I checked (several patches back, maybe even as far back as Sturmovik the original). I normally don't leave it to the autopilot as it has no tactical judgement. Even the transport stages I fly manually ('cept when I go for another beverage http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)

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Capt._Tenneal
06-29-2004, 12:18 PM
My pet peeve AI on Autopilot behaviour is on landing, when from a cruising speed of 350 kph, for instance, it can stop on a dime and drop down to landing speed 180 kph about half a mile away from touchdown. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif

And my question on Autopilot fight behaviour is used mainly for evaluating planes on 1 vs. 1 on QMB. I like to even the playing field by having both planes AI controlled.

Tully__
06-29-2004, 12:22 PM
While that nicely sets an even playing field, it often doesn't correclty reflect the balance between the aircraft you're testing. Though much better than they used to be, the AI are still tactically naive and tend not to use the best strategy with which to defeat their opponent in all cases.

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ploughman
06-29-2004, 12:37 PM
While you're all here...you can select various historical aces and their mounts ie., Hartman and his Bf-109 G6, Nowotny's 262 as enemy AI flown planes. Shooting them down scores more points. Is their AI enhanced beyond the ordinary AI, tailored to mimic the flying style of the aces they represent?

Tully__
06-29-2004, 01:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ploughman:
...Is their AI enhanced beyond the ordinary AI, tailored to mimic the flying style of the aces they represent?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Apparently not. Those in the know tell me they fly exactly like any other AI according to the skill level set by the mission designer.

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Udidtoo
06-29-2004, 01:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tully__:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ploughman:
...Is their AI enhanced beyond the ordinary AI, tailored to mimic the flying style of the aces they represent?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Apparently not. Those in the know tell me they fly exactly like any other AI according to the skill level set by the mission designer.

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Salut
Tully<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed, by default they perform no better than any other AI set to Ace level. All your getting is the thrill of battling a big name.

..............................
I always have just enough fuel to arrive at the scene of my crash.

Capt._Tenneal
06-29-2004, 01:51 PM
Has anyone noticed if energy planes and angles planes fight appropriately when set to AI (e.g. will a Zero dogfight and a Me-109 BnZ) ?

Tully__
06-29-2004, 02:03 PM
In FB they will to some extent, but you still get discrepancies. For instance, Yaks are T&B planes, but would best be used as B&Z against a PZL P.11. The AI know that Yaks are T&B and act accordingly, but they aren't necessarily smart enough to recognise that the P.11 is a better T&B plane and adjust their tactics http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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delinker
06-30-2004, 09:44 AM
Posted by Tully:

"Element leaders (usually odd numbers) are a lot more aggresive than their wingmen (usually even numbers)."

This would make sense excepting that Black 7 was not the Leader, if I understand your statement correctly. The flight leader was a human, Black 5 +&gt;, and myself flying in no.2 position. The crazy wingman was no.3 in the flight, with Black 8 filling out the roster in the no.4 position. Unless.... what you mean is that any Odd Number aircraft is more aggressive (a "flight element" being a pair of birds) in which case I concur beyond the shadow of a doubt http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

We flew this mission again last night and the same thing happened! Black 7 comes right over the top of you and fires on your target as if you aren't even there. It's quite amazing to watch! Frustrating at times, especially after you've been tracking your target for what seems like hours in and out of loops, dives, climbs, jinking and dirty turns.....finally locking up the target when suddenly *FWOOM* here's Black 7 on the scene to steal your potato right at the moment of truth http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

We've flown diff't aircraft each time and the mission involves flying against 20 enemy fighters coming in five waves of four birds each, taking off in 6 minute intervals. Unless you are on the stick the fighters can begin to stack up so it's nice to have an aggro teammate even if he's AI but this boy is out of control. Luckily he's only 'Veteran'. If he were 'Ace' then none of us would be safe http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

Victurus te Saluto

dadada1
06-30-2004, 10:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tully__:
In FB they will to some extent, but you still get discrepancies. For instance, Yaks are T&B planes, but would best be used as B&Z against a PZL P.11. The AI know that Yaks are T&B and act accordingly, but they aren't necessarily smart enough to recognise that the P.11 is a _better_ T&B plane and adjust their tactics http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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Salut
Tully<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It can drive you nuts when you set up a mission in QMB flying Zeros against say Lagg 3s. They still try to outurn you even though they haven't a hope. You just wish they were programmed to recognise a better turning AC than themselves and modify their routine. On the other hand, nothing gives me more pleasure than giving them some of their own treatment.

Tully__
07-01-2004, 04:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by delinker:
Posted by Tully:

"Element leaders (usually odd numbers) are a lot more aggresive than their wingmen (usually even numbers)."

...Unless.... what you mean is that any Odd Number aircraft is more aggressive (a "flight element" being a pair of birds) in which case I concur beyond the shadow of a doubt http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif...

Victurus te Saluto<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep, that's it. Each flight of four consists of two elements. Each element consists of a leader and a wingman. The AI wingmen are sheep, generally just following their leader around at a discreet distance. The leaders are psychopathic madmen who will go to any lengths to shoot at something, regardless of (human flown) friendlies who may be in the way.

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Salut
Tully

dadada1
07-01-2004, 04:59 AM
I dont know if anyone else has experienced this but on the topic of wingmand behaviour. Why do enemy wingman if their in formation seem to react so fast if you get on their leaders tail, downing you with a few accurate bursts? Then when the situation is reversed your wingman either doesn't react to someone on your six or he's about 2km away telling you he's got you covered. Meanwhile your hitting the silk for his neglect of duty.

Henkie_
07-01-2004, 05:13 AM
Because the AI is stupid. And in the same time can do impossible things.

So that is why I don't like to play games with AI in it. Online or offline. And online is better to have only human players also. Then you can get some more realistic flights.

With AI in a flight you can get TnB 190's, you get sniper AI, it can see in the clouds, it can slow down faster and it can speed up faster then a human player. AI is just really bad AI in AEP. Even in IL2 it was better.

cu http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

EAF274_Henkie

dadada1
07-01-2004, 11:10 AM
I suppose they are better than those clots in WW2 fighters, your entire schwarm would be fixated on one enemy AC, meanwhile you dealt with his three other mates. No amount of cursing at your monitor could persuade them to help you.

Worf101
07-01-2004, 12:54 PM
I had the same problem on some missions in the Original IL2 Game. I'm flying a superior aircraft but these guys turn, accelerate and brake like their in the X-Wings. I've found that the AI in Forgotten Battles is much more consistent. I've not had to tweak anything. In the original game I had to modify some missions cause they just simply couldn't be beat (by me at least).

My wingmen are far superior in FB as well. My wingman now sticks to me like stink. When I look at replays, he's right there covering my but. I had one that stayed alive almost 15 missions, damn did I hate losing him. I also throw em a bone every now and then, let em fatten up on something I've shreded.

Now, hey, I just laze em and blaze em.

Da Worfster