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Ole21R
02-01-2006, 09:34 AM
hey all! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Iv noticed that some ships as well as Torpedo boats have topedos. Well, why dont they fire them? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Does this happen in the game? Can you have a fish fired at you?

Ole21R
02-01-2006, 09:34 AM
hey all! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Iv noticed that some ships as well as Torpedo boats have topedos. Well, why dont they fire them? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Does this happen in the game? Can you have a fish fired at you?

Foehammer-1
02-01-2006, 09:40 AM
Nope, not happening anytime soon

The_Silent_O
02-01-2006, 09:48 AM
Well, historically speaking, not many torpedo boats actually attacked U-boats with their topedoes and I can't recall any time they did. The best tactic for a topedo boat would be to attack with spotlight and machine guns and report to higher. They truly are just 'Patrol' boats.

For the game, the designers did not design the ship topedos to be active on any of the surface ships.

Foehammer-1
02-01-2006, 09:56 AM
Which brings us to a question, why do Fiji cruisers not launch their patrol airplane that's just hanging there?

Jose.MaC
02-01-2006, 10:13 AM
As far as I know, no one has seen an airplane taking off or landing in a carrier. Just for decoration http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

but I think there is a mod in http://web.telia.com/~u18230645/ (http://web.telia.com/%7Eu18230645/) that allow ships to shoot torpedoes. Not against subs, unfortunately!

JU88
02-01-2006, 11:58 AM
@Silent O'
Got to disagree with you there, I get very annoyed with the strange justification that adding or fixing these broken features, would somehow mis-represent historical accuracy, and through some kind of twisted delusion the game is more realistic with out them!

In reality its just the opposite!....

Historically, there were wolf packs

Historically, there were lifeboats

Historically, there WERE allied submarines patrolling the seas too and plenty of them!

Historically, An Elco crew may well have seized the oppotunity to slam a torpeedo in to a Uboat, rather than harrass it with MGs and risk losing contact upon it diving or worse -being injured or killed from the Uboats return fire.

To me, these are not minor details -these are major flaws.
This is a simulation of the Uboat, its prey and it hunters, but just because certain things like Elco and Allied submarine attacks on Uboats were fairly rare, its not a good enough reason to have them left out altogether, when having them in would only spice up the game with more variety.

Providing the bare minimum almost
contradicts the 'Dynamic' in 'Dynamic campaign'

Its most likley these features were missing because the devs did not have time to write the code to get them working, I suspect it just wasnt economical to spend the amount of time that they required to implement them.
That is an argument I can understand, but one of 'historical accuracy' is one I can not!

The_Silent_O
02-01-2006, 01:36 PM
So if Elco crews were not trained to launch torpedoes against submarines, why should the game represent that.

That's like having a B-17 break from formation and start dogfighting a Fw-190 in a flight sim.

This is a 'Historical' simulation and as such the Enemy AI should represent the tactics, techniques and procedures (TTPs) of the unit.

And besides, how exciting would a torpedo attack be from an Elco be?, you might see it launched, you wouldn't be able to see it in the water, if it hit you would get the death scene and you would be like "What hit me????"

Just stating my point of view...not being argumentive here.

JU88
02-01-2006, 02:31 PM
Its fun because it would make the game more challenging, if you stayed on the surface to duke it out with an Elco - and win, you might actually have something to be proud of.

BTW Otto, do you have some proof that Elcos, Higgins, Vospers and other torpeedo motor boats were instructed/trained not to launch torpeedos against Uboats? I find it very hard to belive that Command would have given explicit orders for crews of such craft to only use a machine gun during a submarine encounter.

These boats were small targets very agile and very fast, they took on barges, armed merchents and have even been known to attack destroyers, why on earth would they be trained not to torpeedo a slow lumbering (and poorly armed) target like a submarine?
If we look at the up and coming game: PT boats knights of the sea, they have bothered put Uboats in as targets, now, when I play that game and the shoe is on the other foot, I wont be trying to sink a VIIC with my Lewis guns, i can tell you.

To use your example, THAT would be like having B-17s attempt to destroy a tank factory with their gun turrets rather than their payload.

You get the instant death screen in the current game anyway, with mines and aircraft.
Elcos dont stray to far from the coast, so if you get sunk by one, that will teach you to run around the enemy coastline in x1024 surfaced. And if you let one get thet close to you in 1x with out diving... well, thats evolution for you!
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

The_Silent_O
02-02-2006, 06:54 AM
I got it...it is not outside of the possibility.

It would still be a hard shot for the Elco crew...I suppose they would have to work up the mathematics while maneuvering their little boat while in combat. It's got to be hard to estimate the target speed in that situation and the sub could start diving at any time. I'd say in a real combat situation the probability of getting one hit would be pretty slim, unless the Elco surprised the u-boat crew and chances of that would be slim also.

All those U-boat kills you list by RN submarines probably happened when the RN Sub sneaked up on the U-boat while they were surfaced and doing maintenance or torpedo transfer.

by the way...I'm starting a plastic model tonight, a Revell 1/72 JU-88C-4, just like your avatar name! I've got all the right enamels for the odd RLM colours (notice the how I spelled colors, ha!)

propain999
02-02-2006, 07:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by The_Silent_O:
So if Elco crews were not trained to launch torpedoes against submarines, why should the game represent that.

That's like having a B-17 break from formation and start dogfighting a Fw-190 in a flight sim.

This is a 'Historical' simulation and as such the Enemy AI should represent the tactics, techniques and procedures (TTPs) of the unit.

And besides, how exciting would a torpedo attack be from an Elco be?, you might see it launched, you wouldn't be able to see it in the water, if it hit you would get the death scene and you would be like "What hit me????"

Just stating my point of view...not being argumentive here. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Biggest let down for me in this game...

1. No Allied subs hunting me.
2. Torpedo boats dont fire torpedo's

Other than that im loving it.


To address how exciting would a torpedo attack us me be? VERY!

"Torpedo in the water bearing 183 1000m Closing 30 knots!!"

"Right Full Rudder!! Blow Balast!! Take us down!!"

"Deploy Counter Measures!!" (Dont know if there were counter measures in 1939-44)



It would have been a nice addition to the game.

Foehammer-1
02-02-2006, 08:08 AM
"Blow ballast, take us down"??? Blowing ballast brings you up, and quite fast. And NO, there were no countermeasures against unguided torpedoes http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif