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Adlernase
12-21-2003, 10:06 AM
well it did exist..
and it got 4 recorded kills on B17 bombers..
so will we see it in this game?

dont spare men any lessons i know alot about there Planes.. just intersetet if Oleg intend to have it in his great fligt sim.. we have the Bl-1 so why not a counterpart.. (that acually scored som victorys)

Adlernase
12-21-2003, 10:06 AM
well it did exist..
and it got 4 recorded kills on B17 bombers..
so will we see it in this game?

dont spare men any lessons i know alot about there Planes.. just intersetet if Oleg intend to have it in his great fligt sim.. we have the Bl-1 so why not a counterpart.. (that acually scored som victorys)

VW-IceFire
12-21-2003, 11:09 AM
Here it is:
http://www.il2sturmovik.com/forgotten_battles/devupdate/12Sep/Update2.jpg

I can't find the cockpit picture right now but its fully flyable.

- IceFire
http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/temp_sig.jpg

Adlernase
12-21-2003, 12:02 PM
what do u need to complete the Cockpit then =)

necrobaron
12-21-2003, 12:34 PM
The cockpit is complete. This baby is going to be,if nothing else,very interesting to fly. I wonder if it'll spontaneously and unexpectedly blow up like it did in RL.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Wetwilly87
12-21-2003, 12:51 PM
Not to bash on you or anything, BUT PLEASE PEOPLE LOOK AT THE IL-2 DATABASE BEFORE YOU POST ABOUT PLANES THAT ARE BEING MODELED.Heres the link, please bookmark it.

http://jg777.com/il2/

http://www.kitreview.com/reviews/images/re2005bookreviewbg_1.jpg "The beautiful fighter of the war"

12-21-2003, 03:57 PM
No Me163 ever blew up spontaneously and unexpectedly. It's a myth, comparable with the claimed 'Me262 engines suddenly catching fire and blowing up'.

Bobsqueek
12-21-2003, 04:11 PM
except the ones that spontaneously blew up

-----------------------------

To lose one war is bad luck..to lose two is just plain careless

p1ngu666
12-21-2003, 04:55 PM
so good it turned pilots to goo
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
:\

F19_Olli72
12-21-2003, 05:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kweassa1:
No Me163 ever blew up spontaneously and unexpectedly. It's a myth, comparable with the claimed 'Me262 engines suddenly catching fire and blowing up'.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Heres some myths answered by Me163 testpilot Rudy Opitz. http://www.flightjournal.com/articles/me163/me163_5.asp
Still... T-stoff was nasty http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

necrobaron
12-21-2003, 10:32 PM
That's really interesting. How is it that every source(at least the ones I've read)say that the Komet was a very volatile plane and that the fuel fumes alone could cause an explosion? How did this "rumor" become so widespread and widely accepted?

Gibbage1
12-22-2003, 01:52 AM
I have flown the 163 in IL2. Quite a fun aircraft! A little touchy and its too fast for its own good. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Cheers.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Adlernase:
well it did exist..
and it got 4 recorded kills on B17 bombers..
so will we see it in this game?

dont spare men any lessons i know alot about there Planes.. just intersetet if Oleg intend to have it in his great fligt sim.. we have the Bl-1 so why not a counterpart.. (that acually scored som victorys)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

necrobaron
12-22-2003, 05:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gibbage1:
I have flown the 163 in IL2. Quite a fun aircraft! A little touchy and its too fast for its own good. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Cheers.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Adlernase:
well it did exist..
and it got 4 recorded kills on B17 bombers..
so will we see it in this game?

dont spare men any lessons i know alot about there Planes.. just intersetet if Oleg intend to have it in his great fligt sim.. we have the Bl-1 so why not a counterpart.. (that acually scored som victorys)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You've gotten me salivating Gib! I've never been a huge fan of the Komet,but the more I think about it the more I want to give her a spin in FB.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

MiloMorai
12-22-2003, 05:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Olli72:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kweassa1:
No Me163 ever blew up spontaneously and unexpectedly. It's a myth, comparable with the claimed 'Me262 engines suddenly catching fire and blowing up'.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Heres some myths answered by Me163 testpilot Rudy Opitz. http://www.flightjournal.com/articles/me163/me163_5.asp
Still... T-stoff was nasty http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It was not the fumes but the fuel (T-stoff).

"All organic and combustible materials had to be avoided because contact with the 85% peroxide would cause spontaneous combustion. Peroxide is also extremely caustic and contact with the skin would result in serious burns in seconds."

from http://www.walter-rockets.i12.com/design/fuels.htm

Any T-stoff that had collected in the landing skid would be 'set off' when landing. Iirc, later a vent was added to blow out the slid. Many Me263 pilots ending up with back 'problems' because of 'hard' landings.

necrobaron
12-22-2003, 05:51 PM
I learn something new everyday.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Before this thread, I was under the impression the Me-163 was a flying death trap. If these claims are correct, I guess it wasn't as dangerous as I thought.

Fehler
12-23-2003, 03:02 AM
The 163 was very similar to the little rocket take-off assist pods that the Germans used quite frequently. There were very few instances of spontaneous explosions.

In any event, this is one crate I am sure to enjoy "Flying"! Like strapping a rocket on your butt and pointing your nose to the sky. What a ride they must have been in real life!

http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/Fehlersig.jpg
http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/9JG54.html

V-T
12-23-2003, 04:45 AM
I think that it would be fun if those explosions were taken to the game. But they should be VERY rare. Wouldn't it be fun, to see how your engine just blows up, and next second you are going down in a fireball? Of course, those explosions should not be fatal, at least every time...
Sorry for my bad english...

FW190fan
12-23-2003, 05:09 AM
This one is going to be ALOT of fun to fly http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


http://www.luftwaffepics.com/LCBW4/FW190-G2-33s_small.jpg

Willey
12-23-2003, 09:22 AM
It could explode on several occasions. 1st, most often one is while refuelling... Don't get those fumes mixed http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif BOOM. 2nd is combat damage. "Just" hit the plane in such way that both substances meet each other in anther place than the engine. That's the wing roots. I'd say it will even be more safe to fly under fire than a 262. BI-1 also can have some nice explosions when hit... But it's definately not just making some holes in the wings. Plus, the tank borders are parallel to the 12-6 line where most hits come from. Hits in the wing root with AP from high or low 3/6 have best chance to blow up a Komet.

BTW: I't posted already in a thread where even Oleg answered (german forum), so I just post it here again http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif; it's taken from 1.3 beta http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif, someone leaked the link to the pic which was posted in a closed forum http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif, but it's out already, so it doesn't matter:

http://mitglied.lycos.de/eldur190d9/bilder/13/me163.jpg

MiloMorai
12-23-2003, 09:45 AM
I wunder if the exhaust in FB will be yellow/green, almost transparent, colour until the steam condensed into a dense vapour trail in the air?


Willey, I don't think the pilot was too worried about damage to the C-stoff tank.

C-stoff

Methyl Alcohol - CH3OH - 57% by Weight M-stoff
Hydrazine Hydrate - N2H4.H2O - 30% by Weight B-stoff
Water - H2O - 13% by Weight
Catalyst 431(Potassium Cuprous Cyanide) - K3Cu(CN)4

Ruy Horta
12-24-2003, 04:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
http://mitglied.lycos.de/eldur190d9/bilder/13/me163.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Great looking cockpit, although I doubt that a factory fresh bird would have had the brown discoloration as seen within the armored glass.

One thing a/c modelers in sims must think of is the state of museum a/c (50-60 years old) and factory fresh wartime birds, or even veteran crates during wartime. The regular ware and tare of service sure, but not the AGING.

Small point, what we call "muggesiften" in Holland http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Anyone with an interest in the Me 163 should get these three books:

"Top Secret Bird
The Luftwaffe's Me-163 COMET" Wolfgang Sp├┬Ąte Pictorial Histories 1992 0-929521-08-0

"Me 163 Rocket Interceptor
Volume One" "Hans-Hermann Cammann
Stephen Ransom" Classic Publications 2001 1-903223-12-1

"Me 163 Rocket Interceptor
Volume Two" "Hans-Hermann Cammann
Stephen Ransom" Classic Publications 2003 1-903223-13-X

Those with an interest in detail should add:

"Messerschmitt Me 163 & Heinkel He 162
Aero Detail 10" "Shigeru Nohara
Masatsugo Shiwaku" Dai Nippon Kaiga 1994 4-499-22629-5

Ruy "SPADES" Horta

blabla0001
12-24-2003, 04:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rhorta:
Great looking cockpit, although I doubt that a factory fresh bird would have had the brown discoloration as seen within the armored glass.

One thing a/c modelers in sims must think of is the state of museum a/c (50-60 years old) and factory fresh wartime birds, or even veteran crates during wartime. The regular ware and tare of service sure, but not the AGING.

Small point, what we call "muggesiften" in Holland http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Ruy "SPADES" Horta<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What brown decoloration?

All I see that is brown is the frame arc strut, that's not armored glass.

Ruy Horta
12-26-2003, 05:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cappadocian_317:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rhorta:
Great looking cockpit, although I doubt that a factory fresh bird would have had the brown discoloration as seen within the armored glass.

One thing a/c modelers in sims must think of is the state of museum a/c (50-60 years old) and factory fresh wartime birds, or even veteran crates during wartime. The regular ware and tare of service sure, but not the AGING.

Small point, what we call "muggesiften" in Holland http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Ruy "SPADES" Horta<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What brown decoloration?

All I see that is brown is the frame arc strut, that's not armored glass.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What you see, and now I have the difficulty in translating, is the frame surrounding the layered armored glass. Its insides have a brown discoloration. This is what you see in the cockpit art and in similar terms to the current late 109s its "aging" which should not be included with a "factory fresh" a/c. Having said that, it is reported that the late war armored glass itself DID have a smokey color.

In Monogram's German Aircraft Interiors there is an excellent example of a MUSEUM (60 year old bird) having this strong aging effect, with a rust red armored glass "frame" which you can see inside the armored glass screen by nature of its angled sides. This is clear material deterioration. An example shown in Aero Detail, shows clear black borders, either being repaired at some stage, or better preserved.

Although again I must say that I love the artwork and this belongs to the realm of "muggesifting", it does raise the point of thinking of these a/c as they did when they were relatively new and that one must take care with "copying" all the features from museum examples today.

Which brings me back to my original point. Model the ware and tare of service use, but not the aging of 50-60 years.

Ruy "SPADES" Horta

Platypus_1.JaVA
12-27-2003, 03:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rhorta:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cappadocian_317:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rhorta:
Great looking cockpit, although I doubt that a factory fresh bird would have had the brown discoloration as seen within the armored glass.

One thing a/c modelers in sims must think of is the state of museum a/c (50-60 years old) and factory fresh wartime birds, or even veteran crates during wartime. The regular ware and tare of service sure, but not the AGING.

Small point, what we call "muggesiften" in Holland http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Ruy "SPADES" Horta<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What brown decoloration?

All I see that is brown is the frame arc strut, that's not armored glass.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What you see, and now I have the difficulty in translating, is the frame surrounding the layered armored glass. Its insides have a brown discoloration. This is what you see in the cockpit art and in similar terms to the current late 109s its "aging" which should not be included with a "factory fresh" a/c. Having said that, it is reported that the late war armored glass itself DID have a smokey color.

In Monogram's German Aircraft Interiors there is an excellent example of a MUSEUM (60 year old bird) having this strong aging effect, with a rust red armored glass "frame" which you can see inside the armored glass screen by nature of its angled sides. This is clear material deterioration. An example shown in Aero Detail, shows clear black borders, either being repaired at some stage, or better preserved.

Although again I must say that I love the artwork and this belongs to the realm of "muggesifting", it does raise the point of thinking of these a/c as they did when they were relatively new and that one must take care with "copying" all the features from museum examples today.

Which brings me back to my original point. Model the ware and tare of service use, but not the aging of 50-60 years.

Ruy "SPADES" Horta<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cappa is ook Nederlands hej http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge,
ye shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be measured
to you again.

http://acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/index.php

Ruy Horta
12-28-2003, 04:53 AM
Dan begrijpen we elkaar, toch? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Met vriendelijke groet,

Ruy "SPADES" Horta

Platypus_1.JaVA
12-28-2003, 10:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rhorta:
Dan begrijpen we elkaar, toch? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Met vriendelijke groet,

Ruy "SPADES" Horta<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ick Moedt seggen dath ick ook niet so dat bruynige kleurthje zieth op de cockpith ruithen.

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge,
ye shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be measured
to you again.

http://acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/index.php

Ruy Horta
12-29-2003, 10:38 AM
I may have caused some confusion by including a reference to the late 109s. My point is the rusty armored glass FRAME.

Its an aging effect similar in concept to what we see in the late 109 canopy, correct for a museum bird, with 60 year old deteriorated parts, but not for a factory fresh crate regardless of the service use.

Ironically the armored glass itself, which because of the late war material deficit, was of lower quality and would have been justified if reproduced with a smokey color.

That's the final "muggesifting" remark I am willing to make on it, since the artwork is outstanding and very welcome!

Gratuliere and lets get these birds in the air!!

...or fleas http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Ruy "SPADES" Horta