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Codger1949
01-12-2007, 08:50 PM
I've been watching this program religiously and I'm just amazed at the courage and audacity of those young men. Just figure how often we crash and burn in our virtual combat with nary a thought except perhaps, "Oh s**t", and then think about some of the incredible moves these guys made and chances they took with their life on the line, flying low on fuel and shot up, flying against a hord of enemy, pulling nutzoid manuvers nap of the earth, etc. Just incredible. I know this show emphasises the Allied perspective. The Axis unquestionably had men of this cut as well. But what struck me was some of these fellows really hated killing their oppenents when they could actually see their faces. One ace in an F4U was on the *** of this Japanese bomber with a rear gunner with a 7mm. something gun desperately firing on him against his six 50 cals. and the American pilot said he still can't get the look of desperate fear of this man out of his head just before he killed him.

The flying is magnificent but war sucks, and they knew it, both sides. I remember seeing a History Channel show about WW2 fighter pilots. The story of this one guy just took the nonsensical romance of combat totally out of the picture. H e flew to the point of exhaustion and he became sick of straffing enemy troops. I remember in our flight vests we had tabs of pharmecuetical amphetamines. Gee, I wonder why they were there?

Sorry for the bummer note. I love the skill of combat flying but I just aint crazy about killing, except in this sim, of course. In there I'm a a psycho. Cheerio Lads.

Codger1949
01-12-2007, 08:50 PM
I've been watching this program religiously and I'm just amazed at the courage and audacity of those young men. Just figure how often we crash and burn in our virtual combat with nary a thought except perhaps, "Oh s**t", and then think about some of the incredible moves these guys made and chances they took with their life on the line, flying low on fuel and shot up, flying against a hord of enemy, pulling nutzoid manuvers nap of the earth, etc. Just incredible. I know this show emphasises the Allied perspective. The Axis unquestionably had men of this cut as well. But what struck me was some of these fellows really hated killing their oppenents when they could actually see their faces. One ace in an F4U was on the *** of this Japanese bomber with a rear gunner with a 7mm. something gun desperately firing on him against his six 50 cals. and the American pilot said he still can't get the look of desperate fear of this man out of his head just before he killed him.

The flying is magnificent but war sucks, and they knew it, both sides. I remember seeing a History Channel show about WW2 fighter pilots. The story of this one guy just took the nonsensical romance of combat totally out of the picture. H e flew to the point of exhaustion and he became sick of straffing enemy troops. I remember in our flight vests we had tabs of pharmecuetical amphetamines. Gee, I wonder why they were there?

Sorry for the bummer note. I love the skill of combat flying but I just aint crazy about killing, except in this sim, of course. In there I'm a a psycho. Cheerio Lads.

RedToo
01-13-2007, 04:00 AM
Codger you ought to read the book below - this is copied from my post on the General Discussion forum.

Redtoo.

Just finished Winged Victory by V.M.Yeates. A novel based on his recollections of being a Camel pilot in WWI. Absolutely superb. First published in the UK in 1934 and reprinted once in 1969 (Sphere paperbacks). The first edition sold under a thousand copies but at the beginning of WWII a new generation of RAF pilots were paying 5.00 for a copy - 'the only book about war flying which wasn't flannel'. The New York Saturday Review of Literature declared it 'one of the great books of our time' when first published.

From the frontispiece: V.M.Yeates died aged 37 on the 15th of December 1934 of tuberculosis due to war strain, technically known as Flying Sickness D. His log book totalled 248 flying hours in Sopwith Camels on the Western Front. He crashed four times and was shot down twice.

If you can get hold of a copy of this book you must read it. I have read many books written by fighter pilots and this is simply the most complete account I have come across.

RedToo.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v369/RedToo/109f.jpg
Stacked against the railway line were a further 39 wrecked aircraft, most of them Messerschmitts.
These, which the Germans had had time to move, were the result of the 'weather blitz'
Daba Landing Fields, North Africa, November 1942.

Codger1949
01-13-2007, 04:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Winged Victory by V.M.Yeates </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thanks for the recommendation.
Amazon has it, both UK and US.

PikeBishop
01-15-2007, 04:04 AM
Dear ALL,

I often wonder at how lucky I have been NEVER to have been in a war.....or even serve national service. I also firmly believe that if Sims continue in this way it will not be long before young men of all nations say "Bugger off" when asked to volunteer to go and fight in a war, instead of "It'll all be over by christmas....I hope I get my chance to fight the Hun..Jolly good and Pip Pip!" (stands to attention and salutes).
I must have been killed a million times since I first took to the air thinking I would obliterate all before me.....just like thousands of young men with only one life to give for their country. (I dont think I even survived my first takeoff).
Best regards,
SLP.

Dogfighter1969
01-15-2007, 04:52 AM
I am glad to see that there are people out there that thinks deep about what really goes on in a war. War movies makes wars seem glamorous. Normally you just see guys flying through the air when explosions takes place, a little blood here and there and according to the script, they are dead. Especially the Rambo type of movies really pours it on heavily.
It makes you forget what it really looks like in a war. My experience is limited to ground warfare. What you see in such circumstances is things like lost limbs, burned bodies, gaping wounds.
In WWII, things could only have been so much worse because of the scale of things. You don't see 1000 bombers take to the air at the same time in todays time. Also, today you won't see the same number of tanks in a battle as in some of the battles of those days. True, the weapons of those days cannot be as devastating as todays' weapons, but if you are dead you don't actually know the difference.
Lastly, get hold of some of the photos of civilians and especially Jews that were gassed by the Nazis. The heaps of bodies of those people show nothing glamorous or spectacular about being victims of war. They were stripped of honour and dignity in the way the died.
I am glad that I didn't have to face that.

spiffalski
01-15-2007, 12:16 PM
I often think about stuff like this when viewing the guncam footage. The plane in front might be going up in flames but the totally horrible magnitude of the situation...both from the killer and the victim standpoint isn't hard to imagine.
I suppose some might feel more if the guncam footage were axis shooting up allied craft.

In reply to a post above re: sopwith camel pilots:
I heard that more sopwith camel pilots died crashing their planes than being shot down because they were so difficult to keep under control. I think i'll look out that book.

In reply to a post just above re: rambo style movies:
I know you mean the sequels but the first movie "first blood" is a good movie about how war screws up people lives. Seriously!<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

***********
"Why can't we use different font sizes in signatures then we dont get mixed up between them and the post?"
Me 2005

Dogfighter1969
01-16-2007, 04:36 AM
Hi Spiffalski,

"In reply to a post just above re: rambo style movies:
I know you mean the sequels but the first movie "first blood" is a good movie about how war screws up people lives. Seriously!"

I must say I was referring more to the special effects they used rather than the storyline. Mostly the explosions you see in movies looks like fuel explosions, balls of flames with black edges if you know what I mean. The explosions I saw (must admit, it is approx. 20 years ago)was different. When the target was hit it was more like a flash, lots of dust and black smoke. During the daytime we didn't see such a lot of flames. On the other hand, if you hit the target's fuel tanks, I suppose it would involve a lot of flames. Can't remember that I have seen that personally though. At night, it obviously is different. I remember once when we blew up something with a lot of plastic explosives. We were about three km's away when it went up. This was just after the sun set. The cloud that was formed had the shape of a mushroom and the whole cloud was filled with thousands of sparks. You can nearly say it looked like a small nuclear bomb. (It wasn't nuclear though, for the record.)And the 'BANG' only followed after that.

Hope I didn't offend Rambo fans. Wasn't the intention. Actually I saw all the Rambo movies myself. There were 3 wasn't there?