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potver
08-29-2006, 04:28 PM
Every time, letting the computer land the plane, I see very low landing-speeds , like 120kmh for Bf-109, on final.
When I try it for myself, the ac is so unstable that I loose control very rapidly.
Are these speeds correct and is my landing too flat or are these speeds ****?
Anyone?

potver
08-29-2006, 04:28 PM
Every time, letting the computer land the plane, I see very low landing-speeds , like 120kmh for Bf-109, on final.
When I try it for myself, the ac is so unstable that I loose control very rapidly.
Are these speeds correct and is my landing too flat or are these speeds ****?
Anyone?

FoolTrottel
08-29-2006, 04:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">When I try it for myself, the ac is so unstable that I loose control very rapidly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Same here. 130km/h for a Bf110... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

slappedsilly
08-29-2006, 05:01 PM
AI also does a perfect landing everytime. I hope in SoW they make the AI look more like real people landing.

Divine-Wind
08-29-2006, 05:03 PM
That's 'cause AI cheats.

Stupid fat AIses!

skissors
08-29-2006, 05:06 PM
I've been playing this sim for a year on and off, and its only just recently that I noticed that i only land succesfully about 1 in 5 times. I can land in other sims ok Falcon 4af and BoBII, but IL2 I have trouble in.

Last night I spent about 2 hours just trying to land. Two things usually happen I stall and flip over if i'm about to touch down less than 140km or my gear snaps at 155km or more.

The times I do manage to land, usually bouncing a bit has been above the 155km mark.
I know its me, I need more practise.

A strange thing to add is I have a higher success rate landing on aircraft carriers.

DoorGunner1788
08-29-2006, 05:45 PM
I don't know why, but I've never had any trouble landing. Even if that means landing on a carrier. It seems odd to me, and I can't understand why. Maybe I have supernatural powers? I usually come in hot however, around 160-150 kmh. That may be why I can touch down easier. I come hot, get in ground effect, then let my plane gradually touch down. ???? I don't know maybe you should try that if your having trouble.

Divine-Wind
08-29-2006, 05:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DoorGunner1788:
I don't know why, but I've never had any trouble landing. Even if that means landing on a carrier. It seems odd to me, and I can't understand why. Maybe I have supernatural powers? I usually come in hot however, around 160-150 kmh. That may be why I can touch down easier. I come hot, get in ground effect, then let my plane gradually touch down. ???? I don't know maybe you should try that if your having trouble. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
IT'S JEBUS!

justiceboy
08-29-2006, 05:50 PM
Landing in cockpit view is easier to me than any other way even on a carrier. Don't know why, it just is. I typically land at about 160 to 180 with about 20% throttle, then just before i touch down i kill the throttle and just roll out. I have gotten a lot better lately, but I still have my boo boos. I guess i make descent landings about 80% of my tries.
I havn't died in a landing oh man i guess it's been about 5 landings ago http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

p1ngu666
08-29-2006, 06:57 PM
try to gently "curve" the plane down onto the ground

ill go thru what i do for a normal landing

1st, check speed and runway position so i can lineup, and do sharp turns to bleed the speed to below 400kph so i can drop gear and combat flap.
cut power as needed.

trim

next check fuel mix is at 120%, supercharger at stage 1, and rad open (unless needed for visablility)

now check rate of decent, how the plane feels, is hook down? (sparks http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ) drop takeoff flap, and adust throttle etc as needed.

try to pic a point where the curve will touch the ground and u will landhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

now just "aim" for that point, be careful not to get too slow (thats why i rarely use landing flap) as the plane will handle worse.

try to relax, and retrim, so the plane is pretty much flying itself on your approach

last minute corrections, and view change if possible to give a better view of ground, then touchdown, raise flap when u have just touched down, as this will stabilse the plane on the ground.

dance on the rudder, brakes and aliron if needed to keep it straight/avoid something.

i belive u should judge speed by feel.

you will still occasional crash whatever u do http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

i suggest practise and watching what others do.

spiffyscimitar
08-29-2006, 07:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by justiceboy:
Landing in cockpit view is easier to me than any other way even on a carrier. Don't know why, it just is. : </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I second that. I think it's because psychologically you "feel' the size of the machinery beneath you and it's easier to estimate the distance to the ground by it. Kind of like when you're in your car, with your dashboard for reference, you instinctively know the clearance you have to pass through a tight parking situation. With cockpit off, it's tough to know where your wheels are relative to the strip. Same with carrier landings, with cockpit off I kept smashing nose first into the edge of the deck (or with IJN carriers, bouncing off the sloped end).

however, I must admit I can't get my speed down low at all, most of the landings I pull off are at 160-180mph. Generally I generously apply rudder because I rarely succeed in going right down the line. The biggest thing for me, though, has been getting my approach angle right, and that has come with giving the strip a flyby first so that even if it is hard to see at low angle elevation I know I'm heading in the right direction and don't suddenly have to recorrect my heading which leads to swerving and dipping and crashing.

skissors, you can land consistantly in Bob2? Wow, I'm having trouble in that one, the spits are a real hassle and very unforgiving.. at least in Il2 you'll manage to just ruin your gear and prop, in bob2 it explodes on you...

skissors
08-29-2006, 11:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">skissors, you can land consistantly in Bob2? Wow, I'm having trouble in that one, the spits are a real hassle and very unforgiving.. at least in Il2 you'll manage to just ruin your gear and prop, in bob2 it explodes on you... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Yeah I heard people have problems landing in bobII. With the new patch i'm findng it easier than IL2.. track ir 6d0f helps as well.

Anybody else find it hard spotting airfields in the air in Il2? I have big problems with that.

NonWonderDog
08-30-2006, 01:33 AM
Don't try to imitate the AI, I'm pretty sure they don't use the same flight model when they land. You can always see the plane jerk a bit when they go into landing mode. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Come in at a reasonable speed (160 km/h or so -- to be honest I don't look at the airspeed indicator when I land), cut the throttle just above the runway threshold, and level off just above the runway. The plane will slow down. As it does, pull back on the stick in order to slow your rate of descent. If you time it right, you'll touch down on three wheels exactly when you pull the plane up to its ground angle. It takes a bit of practice, but once you get the hang of it it's hard to mess up.

As far as I know, the historical way to do this is with an overhead approach. Instead of flying around a pattern at 1,000 feet, fly over the airfield along runway heading at 1,500-2,000 feet and make two descending 180 degree turns to final. You should be able to do this with approach/landing flaps (I usually put full flaps down after the first turn), gear down, radiators open, 30% throttle, and 100% RPM and keep a good speed for landing. You want to cross the runway threashold just after you finish the second turn. Try to land about 1/3 down the runway unless you really do need all of it. If you're flying a fighter you only need 1/3 of the runway, anyway.

The same basic approach was used for landing on land airfields and carriers. The idea is that everyone can land a lot quicker when you don't have to worry about pattern traffic. You can also keep the airfield/carrier in view past the huge noses 1940's warbirds tended to have.


I haven't tried BOB2 after the new patch, but when I tried before it was simply impossible to slow down. No matter how slow I tried to come in, the plane would shoot into the air as soon as I tried to flare. The only way to land was to force the plane down into a wheel landing and retract the flaps as soon as I touched down. I looked on the forums after that, and found that everyone recommended forcing the plane down into a wheel landing and retracting the flaps as soon as you touched down. People even said it was "realistic." Ugh.

potver
08-30-2006, 02:33 AM
Hi,

Thanks for sharing your experiences.
Normally I have no problems making a three-pointer , but only with a higher speed ,150/ 160 kph.
It,s a challenge to drop out of of the sky just above the critical speed, and after flaring ,make a nice three pointer.
However , I indeed presume those comp.landing speeds are not the real thing.

WWMaxGunz
08-30-2006, 02:43 AM
Keep prop speed up but power low.

If the plane starts to roll, don't use side-stick to correct!
Rudder just a bit away from the roll instead.

WWMaxGunz
08-30-2006, 02:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by potver:
I indeed presume those comp.landing speeds are not the real thing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

100kph is just about 62mph. 120kph appx 75mph, 130kph appx 80mph.

AI has perfect control... they have feel by numbers and can run very nose-up at high power
with low speed in a controlled drop that you may never match but is possible just not a
thing that any real pilot would do. Finnish test pilot was able to fly level at 130kph
with nose at a noted 30 degree angle and full power so less power and drop = less than 1G
means less nose pitch. But don't try that IRL!

IIRC flight manuals will say speed at least 30% above stall on approach. Anyone?

WTE_Ibis
08-30-2006, 03:55 AM
Just use a higher speed touchdown, ignore the AI they have 10,000 hours up on type. About 180-190 will land most aircraft without problems, carrier landings need approx 170kph.


.

Lucius_Esox
08-30-2006, 04:50 AM
Wierd one landing, once you get it, you've got it, if you see what I mean.

I have given myself a cross to bear though because on d/f servers I land by coming straight down the runway at 300mph plus (respectable height) wait till I'm far enough past the runway (feel?) Shut throttle, do the tightest upward loop I can (Dont know what the moves called but obviousley you turn yourself right way up) whilst dropping gear and flaps. Once gotten the hang off it's actually easy. I try to touch down about the 90-100mph mark.

As said above though you still crash sometimes. Trouble is because thats the way I've learnt to do it I'm **** doing it the "right" way http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Durchstarten
08-30-2006, 05:27 AM
To find the correct landing speed you could spend hours searching the web to find landing data/tables for the He111, P-51, etc and anyway they don't always work for PC sim aircraft.

Alternatively, just get airborne and find the stalling speed of your preferred model in the landing configuration at a typical touch-down weight and multiply by 1.33 and that will give you your landing speed. A few Kmph/mph more on the approach will give you a better view of the landing strip.

DPS.

Chuck_Older
08-30-2006, 06:31 AM
I've found that looking into the speeds of what these aircraft really used for landing in the real world is a good idea.

**Don't look to the AI as a teacher!**

Take for example the P-40B. It's touch-down speed of 100mph was considered 'fast' in 1941. But at 100 mph indicated, touching down in it is not too hard. slower or faster may cause a problem with the plane falling out of your hands, or bouncing

One thing many sim pilots do is try to make a short final approach. Don't. Just because you can tool around the virtual skies all day, that doesn't mean you can slap the plane down from 2km out at 300m altitude. What ends up happening is that you're finally ready to touch down, and you're already 2/3rds of the way down the runway

Another thing nobody seems to do is find out what their planes stall at, and when, and what the stall speedds are with wheels down, flaps up, and wheels down, flaps down

Another problem is that players seem to want the perfect three point landing all the time

The least mastered skill is using the throttle to change altitude instead of the stick

Don't use the AI's example of ANYthing to determine what you should do.

JG10r_Bull
08-30-2006, 06:49 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

But i must say i don't have probs landing i like to go in to the holding patten and slow down to 250kph just as i line up run way. around 5-10kms out drop gear and flaps speed will go down to 220kms if power is at 50% then drop power down to 30% and just bleed speed down to 160kph by this time u should be right up on the runway kill power and just glide 4-5m above the runway till down to 140 -130 the perfect landing in my books http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif but as Chuck_Older said <span class="ev_code_RED">**Don't look to the AI as a teacher!**</span> BTW that landing is for a BF becouse that is all i realy fly online

PBNA-Boosher
08-30-2006, 06:54 AM
Landing I do find pretty simple, then again I've been with this game since the beginning, so I've had lots of practice. I usually bring planes in and flare at 180kph. If a plane has dive brakes and I'm going a little fast, I DON'T use them. I simply go around. If you ever even slightly doubt an approach, go around. It's not worth dying for, even virtually.

mandrill7
08-30-2006, 07:05 AM
Ohh this is turning into a landing "war stories" thread. Good. I'm obsessed with landings and not very good at them.

Here's what I do. Lose altitude to about 150 meters and slow down to 280 kph. Then I run along at 30% power for the last 3 km or so of the approach using combat flaps to increas lift and kill speed. When I'm about a klick away, I'm down to 240 and about 40 meters altitude. Then I lower gear and take-off flaps and ease power to 20% if I'm flying a fighter. The power factor really depends on the a/c. A nose-heavy beast like the Mossie is a death-trap at 20% power and needs up to 50% to keep flying even a short distance.

At 200-210, I hit landing flaps and I should be over the strip and at 10-20 meters. I then bleed off speed flying up the strip and slowly killing power until I touch down. I land at anywhere from 160-180 and bounce a little which usually also means pulling to the right.

As someone mentioned throttle to alter altitude is a precious discovery. Also my saitek pos joystick goes nose-up at the least excuse, so I sweat it to make sure my nose is under control on final approach.

The only a/c I cannot land is the Spitfire. It seems to need a far lower landing speed than the other a/c and the pull to the right is brutal. The fact that you cannot take the flaps down gradually doesn't help much.

SithSpeeder
08-30-2006, 08:25 AM
Potver--

I recommend going to your local library (or amazon.com) and getting a book called "Stick And Rudder" by Wolfgang Langewiesche. It will set your head straight on how to appropriately use your controls to land (e.g., throttle more controls your descent rate, elevator your landing speed) as well as setting up a visual for appropriate approach angle, etc. It's geared for real pilots, but I find it works very well for in game.

* _54th_Speeder *

p-11.cAce
08-30-2006, 08:29 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif If you fly the sim as you would in RL you will get the best results over time. Its worth putting the extra effort into doing it right. I always set up my approaches in game just like I do when flying in RL and have had few problems once I get used to any quirks with the aircraft.

potver
08-30-2006, 08:55 AM
I,ve just finished the Johnny Red campaign,(awsome ! great story too) where you,ve got to fly so many different aircraft that landing differences between the models become very clear.
Only the Mossie tricked me twice .

Redwulf__26
08-30-2006, 09:06 AM
Numbers/Numbers. Keep the runway numbers right, a quarter of the way up the windscreen, and the approach airspeed numbers right, in the Fw190 I find 200/210kph is OK.I suspect Me109 is similar. Flap position as required. As there is never a head wind I always use full (Landing) flap. Adjust throttle as necessary to maintain correct approach speed . As the ground rushes up to meet you, gently flair, (roundout) to about 3 ft of the ground. Difficult in the game as you don't have any peripheral vision. Closing the throttle and hold off the runway for as long as you can. With the stick in your stomach you should touch down in a perfect threepointer.

NonWonderDog
08-30-2006, 09:25 AM
Trying to maintain the exact same landing speed each time will get you into trouble, too. Stall speed changes significantly with fuel and armament load. I've found that the best way is just to keep the same angle of attack during landing no matter what, and just let the speed be what it wants to be. Touch down when you're in a 3-point position; the speed should be slightly different every time.

BSS_AIJO
08-30-2006, 09:35 AM
I always try to land as if I am flying the carrier pattern. It is especially helpfull in the 190 as you can see the runway for alot longer than you would if you used the long final approch. Also, the tight decending turns bleed speed quite nicely. I have also found that I regain controll on the ground faster if I raise the flaps as soon as the wheels tough dirt, or cement or deck.. The easiest to land have to be any version of the Zero, they stall at like 80 mph and have reasonable controll around that speed. The 109's and spits are pretty easy as well. I like the brewster buffalow for landings again because of the low stall and the really good forward view for landing. The 190's can be tricky because if your final is too long you spend too much time looking at the bar and wondering if things are going to be ok. I have also found with the 109s and 190 that I am still at 20% throttle when I touch dirt. They seem to like that better. Finally the worst things to land are the do the ju88 and the me262 getting them slow enough to actually land can be a pain in the butt.

ohhh, finally when on final your throttle is the only good controll for altitude once you get used to that idea thing start gettiong alot easier.

BSS_AIJO

Crash_Moses
08-30-2006, 09:46 AM
What Chuck and Sithspeeder said. Just now getting a feel for controlling altitude with throttle. SBD historically stalled at around 60kts and I'm usually just above that. Still working on the Val. She just won't sit!

Read Stick and Rudder three times as a kid. Maybe it's time for a fourth...

Saburo_0
08-30-2006, 09:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SithSpeeder:
Potver--

I recommend going to your local library (or amazon.com) and getting a book called "Stick And Rudder" by Wolfgang Langewiesche. It will set your head straight on how to appropriately use your controls to land (e.g., throttle more controls your descent rate, elevator your landing speed) as well as setting up a visual for appropriate approach angle, etc. It's geared for real pilots, but I find it works very well for in game.

* _54th_Speeder * </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is an important point if you're not familiar with it. Throttle for changing distance of your "fall" and elevator for controlling speed. Aim for a spot on the runway-(not by pointing the nose at it) and adjust throttle as needed, so reduce power if you are overshooting your mark increase power if you are falling short. Raisie or lower the nose to maintain your desired airspeed. Just thinking about this for a few landings can really help IMHO.

FA_Retro-Burn
08-30-2006, 09:55 AM
It also helps to trim yourself at the end to keep the nose properly aligned. I've bounced so many times and the second or 3rd bounce puts the nose into the ground.

StG2_Schlachter
08-30-2006, 10:20 AM
Landing speeds depend on the a/c you are flying.
I like to land the early 109s at 160 to 170 kph. Add 10 to 20 kph for the later models. This will give you enough speed to avoid a stall (130-140 kph) and is a good speed for making a 3-point landing.

In the 190 I like to touch down at 200 kph while slowing down from 220 kph during the flare. Your glide slope should not be too steep unless you want to bounce around a few time.

Most western allied types settle down nicely when your landing speed is around 100 mph, a bit more for the heavy fighters, like the P-47 or P-51.

The AI DOES cheat. Set up a mission in FMB. Insert a carrier and let the AI let a 109 on it. It will land at 110 kph.

mortoma1958
08-30-2006, 10:45 AM
Also do not ever try to emulate the low approach angle the AI use. Your landing should be a good deal steeper. If you come in the way the AI do, you can't see over the nose very well and you also have to use a very high power setting to maintain the approach. At a steeper angle you can nearly glide in at about 30% power and your view of the runway is superb. No real life pilot fying a warbird would attempt such shallow approaches as the AI do in this game!!

If anybody wants my tracks of the way it should be done, I'd be happy to send you some.

Also there is some variation in approach speeds in the various aircraft in the game. To read some of these posts you'd think there is a "one speed fits all" thing going on. I use as high as 220 with planes like the FW-190s and P-47s, to as low as 90 or 100Kph with biplanes such as the J8A or I-153.

Another thing, approach speed is different than landing speed. Approach speed should be about 15 knots over full flap stalling speed in most planes. Landing speed is the speed you are going when your wheels touch, usually just over stall speed or right at stall speed if you get it right.

Crash_Moses
08-30-2006, 11:57 AM
Good point, Mortoma. I like to come in fairly steep and then trim my nose up as I get closer to the deck. Makes it easier to get those three point landings. Works on carriers too but you have to remember to get that tail down so the hook can catch. SBD has a nice long hook so it's not too bad but the Val has a short hook and I have a hard time getting that tail down...

general_kalle
08-30-2006, 12:10 PM
i know 5 good advices:

1. i usually touch down at 170-220 km/h depending on the plane

2. dont come in too high.
better to speed up and come in flat.

3. make sure u land on both wheels at same time as they cant carry the waight on one wheel

4. if u come in flat and faster than neccesary u are sure not to break the wheels as u touch down.

5. dont go below 170 as it will stall almost evry plane. best to come in 180-200

hope it helps u.
start by landing from outside. F8-chase view will do it. when u get better go inside...and remember what i told u kid.

slipBall
08-30-2006, 04:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by potver:
Every time, letting the computer land the plane, I see very low landing-speeds , like 120kmh for Bf-109, on final.
When I try it for myself, the ac is so unstable that I loose control very rapidly.
Are these speeds correct and is my landing too flat or are these speeds ****?
Anyone? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



Yes, I think it is correct, plan ahead, so as to not have to stay very long at that low speed. Remember AI does everything by the book, rarely making a mistake. I perfer to land the 109 at 150-210 depending on airfield type. The weather generator in BOB should make landings a little more challenging http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif