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View Full Version : Flak supression now possible...



ffb
09-08-2009, 10:58 PM
... a new little mod at AAA has this...
ability to straffe an AAA gun and cause its three crew members to run away (like with vehicles) and this also causes it to stop firing for a while.....

AAA accuracy can be changed and added to a mission file in settings of 0,1 or 2....

AAA ability at night is less if no searchlights and also affected by cloud cover

ffb
09-08-2009, 10:58 PM
... a new little mod at AAA has this...
ability to straffe an AAA gun and cause its three crew members to run away (like with vehicles) and this also causes it to stop firing for a while.....

AAA accuracy can be changed and added to a mission file in settings of 0,1 or 2....

AAA ability at night is less if no searchlights and also affected by cloud cover

TinyTim
09-09-2009, 07:56 AM
Now this sounds great, much more realistic! Thanks for pointing it out, heading over to aaa to pick this aaa mod up right away.

Choctaw111
09-09-2009, 08:54 AM
I haven't visited there in a few weeks.
I just went there and didn't see the mod in question. It sounds good though.

doraemil
09-09-2009, 09:09 AM
sweet, you must be brave, last time someone did that, we never heard from them (mentioning a mod).

Thanks


I found it on the aforementioned site you have to go to their download thread and the title is semireal triple ack ack on tanx and vehicles.

*ties up her hair for the gauntlet run*

rnzoli
09-09-2009, 10:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ffb:
ability to straffe an AAA gun and cause its three crew members to run away (like with vehicles) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Is this realistic? Flak gunners fleeing their guns is a sure case for court-martial, since they are supposed to bring the attacking plane down instead.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">and this also causes it to stop firing for a while..... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Great, but only for a while? What if you kill one of the crew running away? Will it stop firing permanently Or will it fire with lower rate/longer pauses?

JG53_Valantine
09-09-2009, 11:34 AM
That's why the title of at the other site has "semi realistic" in the title, the blokes done the best job he can with the current limitations.

I agree with you for the most part but I am sure that gunners wouldn't carry on as if it were cricket when under direct enemy fire, I would imagine some sort of taking cover to happen purely because of the natural instinct for self preservation.

Definately going to have to give this one a try though, even a slight supression of the flak and making it have to deal with the weather is great, considering we can't see through cloud they shouldn't either.
V

b2spirita
09-09-2009, 11:57 AM
If i get a p-47 strafing me while im on a gun, i know id run.

He who fights and runs a way...

Choctaw111
09-09-2009, 11:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by doraemil:
sweet, you must be brave, last time someone did that, we never heard from them (mentioning a mod).

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There have been several posts like this in the recent past.
Why are people still saying we are not allowed to talk about mods here?
Yes, we are allowed to talk about mods, but NO LINKS.

AllorNothing117
09-09-2009, 03:45 PM
Cowards

Urufu_Shinjiro
09-09-2009, 04:59 PM
Revised forum policy concerning the discussion of mods on these boards. (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/7441010176)

Just so it's all clear, this is stickied at the top but no one reads those things I guess....

b2spirita
09-09-2009, 05:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AllorNothing117:
Cowards </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Id wait till you were in such a situation before judging ...

rnzoli
09-10-2009, 12:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG53_Valantine:
but I am sure that gunners wouldn't carry on as if it were cricket when under direct enemy fire, I would imagine some sort of taking cover to happen purely because of the natural instinct for self preservation. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Then they are not trained soldiers, they are civilians. The first thing you learn in the army is to forget self-preservations, and carry out all commands, including dangerous ones. You can leave your gun to take cover only if it becomes inoperable (lack of ammo, battle damage), otherwise keep firing, because you MUST believe that you hit the attacker earlier than he hits you.

If you want to stress the self-preservation of AAA gunners, you should also consider the self-preservation of the pilots attacking AAA emplacements. Which is obviously lacking for the gamers, and apparenly this part of the mod is the answer to that http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

ibeagle
09-12-2009, 10:31 PM
Nice one ffb. Do you have any plans to update your destructible objects mod? New B-25 strafers are out soon, it would be great to be able to suppress shipboard AA fire.

K_Freddie
09-14-2009, 11:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ffb:
... and this also causes it to stop firing for a while.....

AAA accuracy can be changed and added to a mission file in settings of 0,1 or 2....
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
This does already exist in the vanilla game.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Sillius_Sodus
09-14-2009, 06:14 PM
Hmmmm,

Accurate flak, though frustrating, is still par for the course. If you've read Closterman's book "The Big Show", or many other accounts of the air war, you'll know that flak took a frightful toll of aircraft attacking at low level.

julian265
09-14-2009, 06:44 PM
My biggest gripe with AAA in IL2 is with the 88mm flak guns and similar:
They will shoot at you even if you're hedge-hopping,
You can cover the emplacement in HMG flashes, an the crew is still fine,
They slew too fast: I've been hit by the one I was strafing (it was the last), as I passed vertically above it at 400mph, no more than 10 m above it, when previously it was firing at me whilst I approached at a low angle.
They'll shoot at you when you're about to strafe them, (and frequently hit too). I'm under the impression that real large caliber flak guns didn't fire at close, low altitude planes at all.

FeiHu
09-14-2009, 07:41 PM
I too have been hit by an 88,passing directly overhead after strafing from a low angle.With the mod,when you start firing the crew scatters.Once your past they return to fire at you,unless you destroy the gun,or the crew.Either way it's nice to see them scatter! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Sillius_Sodus
09-14-2009, 10:39 PM
True enough, those 88's are a tad unrealistic http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

ffb
09-14-2009, 10:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K_Freddie:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ffb:
... and this also causes it to stop firing for a while.....

AAA accuracy can be changed and added to a mission file in settings of 0,1 or 2....
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
This does already exist in the vanilla game.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's only for ships AAA

ffb
09-14-2009, 10:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ibeagle:
Nice one ffb. Do you have any plans to update your destructible objects mod? New B-25 strafers are out soon, it would be great to be able to suppress shipboard AA fire. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That part which gives ability to destroy ship AA guns should be in the
"~00_AAA_August_20_2009_Effects_Platinum_Special_Ed ition"

and if not then contact me at AAA

Waldo.Pepper
09-15-2009, 12:19 AM
Re this..
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by julian265:
My biggest gripe with AAA in IL2 is with the 88mm flak guns and similar: </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
and this..
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FeiHu:
I too have been hit by an 88, passing directly overhead after strafing from a low angle. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wing Commander "Stocky" Edwards was almost shot down by an 88. In his case it was even more preposterous as the 88 was fitted to a tank, not even a proper AA gun.

"While in Italy, he had a very narrow escape when a tank fired its 88mm gun at him. The projectile was probably armour piercing and meant to clobber tanks, so it passed right through the Spitfire with out exploding, but left two 12-inch holes just behind the cockpit."

From page 117 Canadian Wing Commanders by George Brown & Michael Lavigne.

If anything like that happened to anyone here the howling would never end.

Toten_Waffe
09-15-2009, 02:32 AM
It used to happen all the time in the original version of the game.....I remember countless times flying along and then mysteriously exploding followed by the message".....has been killed by a tanks main gun"

Thankfully the uber AI tank gunners have now been patched out.

doraemil
09-15-2009, 03:18 AM
most AAA if you fly in a spiral like circle around it then pop up and take a snap shot to rocket or shoot or pickle won't hit you.


Except the 88's for some reason you can be porpoising like mad and they'll get that lucky disable cannons or my favorite, the aileron + rudder + elevator damage.

Waldo.Pepper
09-15-2009, 03:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Toten_Waffe:
It used to happen all the time in the original version of the game.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I of course remember that, and am glad to see it patched out also. However, stupid stuff like that happens all the time.

I recently read of yet another account of something like this. In Flights of Passage - which is the (just excellent btw!!) memoir of an Avenger pilot in the Pacific. There is the tale of an Avenger brought down by mortar fire!

"Fox had been flying an artillery spotter around over the front lines. It was a job that we all did, but that nobody liked—flying back and forth across the island, low and not too fast, while the spotter looked for gun flashes and radioed their locations to his own guns. It was at once boring and dangerous. ... That's what Fox was doing when his plane was hit. An Army artillery captain saw it happen and wrote a report. The plane was flying at about 250 feet, he said, when it was hit—by a "high trajectory shell," so it must have been one of our own mortars, lobbing shells over the line, maybe a mortar that the Captain commanded. The plane crashed on our side of the front, and the Captain got to the wreck within ten minutes of the crash. There was, he said, no sign of life in the area." p. 204-205.

And if it happening once is not enough for you. It happened again three days later to another unfortunate Avenger crew.

During the Great War it was commonplace. And I can see it as reasonable too considering the slow speed and epic levels of artillery they flew over. So maybe it was not so far fetched after all.

BTW doraemil check primate messages.

rnzoli
09-15-2009, 04:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by doraemil:
most AAA if you fly in a spiral like circle around it then pop up and take a snap shot to rocket or shoot or pickle won't hit you. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes, it's amazing how important is to limit your time flying towards the guns. A good trajectory bringing you aligned on the taget in convergence range makes wonders.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Except the 88's for some reason you can be porpoising like mad and they'll get that lucky disable cannons or my favorite, the aileron + rudder + elevator damage. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>This is because of shell fragments. It's not visible normally, but if you look at the water surface during the kamikaze attacks, you can see how much volume of shrapnel covers how big area, when the shell explodes 10-30 m over the water. Frightening to say the least.


By the way, it hasn't been discussed much, but actually the most successful attack against AAA is a surprise attack. Several objects have a "sleep time", which means that the gun is silent while you approach for a given time, simulating the time needed to man the guns (which is much more realistic than the civilias leaving the gun just because you start to aim at them.) If you make a fast attack, you can take the targets out before they all start firing. Of course, you must NOT return for a second or third pass (which anyway always happens with IL-2 gamers, and sometimes with me too http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif).

julian265
09-15-2009, 04:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
Re this..
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by julian265:
My biggest gripe with AAA in IL2 is with the 88mm flak guns and similar: </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
and this..
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FeiHu:
I too have been hit by an 88, passing directly overhead after strafing from a low angle. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wing Commander "Stocky" Edwards was almost shot down by an 88. In his case it was even more preposterous as the 88 was fitted to a tank, not even a proper AA gun.

"While in Italy, he had a very narrow escape when a tank fired its 88mm gun at him. The projectile was probably armour piercing and meant to clobber tanks, so it passed right through the Spitfire with out exploding, but left two 12-inch holes just behind the cockpit."

From page 117 Canadian Wing Commanders by George Brown & Michael Lavigne.

If anything like that happened to anyone here the howling would never end. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually I've been shot down a few times by tanks' main guns... (there was no other flak around, plus their shots are visible). I don't have a problem with tanks getting lucky shots, or easy shots at a predictable target. But unwieldy 88 mm guns that were designed to burst flak at chosen altitudes amongst formations, and that were said not to be any trouble below 6000ft, shouldn't be RELIABLY shooting at targets at ground level, and targets that require very rapid barrel movements.

I've read in multiple places that above 6000ft the large stuff would shoot at you, below that the 20mm etc. Whilst I don't doubt that many large rounds were shot at low aircraft, I do doubt that it was officially encouraged or often successful.

WholeHawg
09-15-2009, 07:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rnzoli:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG53_Valantine:
but I am sure that gunners wouldn't carry on as if it were cricket when under direct enemy fire, I would imagine some sort of taking cover to happen purely because of the natural instinct for self preservation. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Then they are not trained soldiers, they are civilians. The first thing you learn in the army is to forget self-preservations, and carry out all commands, including dangerous ones. You can leave your gun to take cover only if it becomes inoperable (lack of ammo, battle damage), otherwise keep firing, because you MUST believe that you hit the attacker earlier than he hits you.

If you want to stress the self-preservation of AAA gunners, you should also consider the self-preservation of the pilots attacking AAA emplacements. Which is obviously lacking for the gamers, and apparenly this part of the mod is the answer to that http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well I was in the Army and I must have missed this day of training because the first thing I was trained to do was push-ups!!!

I think it would greatly depend on the quality of the troops and my guess is that AA gunners may not have the same indifference as your avarage front like troops. But like anything there are so many factors to consider when trying to determine a fight or flee response in a human that is all academic especially considering the limitation of the game engine as pointed out by Valantine.

rnzoli
09-16-2009, 02:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WholeHawg:
Well I was in the Army and I must have missed this day of training because the first thing I was trained to do was push-ups!!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I meant the first thing when you are given a weapon for the first time (even before live ammo is given to you). We were trained as follows: "You and your weapon fight as one. If you and your weapon separate for any reason, you become a deserter. And if the enemy won't kill you, the court martial will. Your weapon is not a tool - it's your body part."

Well, we didn't buy all that crap http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif but it definitely made everyone wary of leaving SMGs by accident somewhere in the woods. On the other hand, my other "weapon" was a radio-relay station, which was definitely a target for pre-emptive air strikes. So if you ask me, I would have run away from the station temporarily in case of imminent air-strikes, since there was no way for me to counter the attack by any means.

But AAA gunners are different, they did have quite a good chance to shoot down planes advancing towards them and they had some protection against the incoming gunfire, like frontal armour on the gun, sandbags around it to protect from exploding shell fragments etc.

When looking at the kamikazee attacks in the Pacific, I think a lot of gunners died in their emplacements. Imagine the outcome, had they left their positions under fire...