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na85
04-29-2009, 12:55 AM
In your opinion, what makes a good campaign?

"Campaign" being either offline or coop (hell, if you want to comment on what makes a good online war be my guest)

na85
04-29-2009, 12:55 AM
In your opinion, what makes a good campaign?

"Campaign" being either offline or coop (hell, if you want to comment on what makes a good online war be my guest)

jamesblonde1979
04-29-2009, 12:56 AM
Atmosphere

na85
04-29-2009, 01:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jamesblonde1979:
Atmosphere </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Please elaborate, I'm interested

Feathered_IV
04-29-2009, 05:54 AM
Well written and immersive briefings with a continuing narrative make for a great campaign. Flinging thousands of static objects at a map in FMB do not.

Varied numbers of other aircraft completing their own tasks outside of the mission construct makes for a good campaign. The campaign maker neglecting to tick the radio-silence boxes on waypoint changes, so that every single formation is constantly announcing their altitude and heading..... does not.

crucislancer
04-29-2009, 09:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Feathered_IV:
Well written and immersive briefings with a continuing narrative make for a great campaign. Flinging thousands of static objects at a map in FMB do not.

Varied numbers of other aircraft completing their own tasks outside of the mission construct makes for a good campaign. The campaign maker neglecting to tick the radio-silence boxes on waypoint changes, so that every single formation is constantly announcing their altitude and heading..... does not. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Very good points there.

Some previous threads that might help:

RFI: How do you like to play campaigns? (http://www.mission4today.com/index.php?name=ForumsPro&file=viewtopic&t=4218)

Campaign makers: Which of your OWN campaigns is best? (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/50910533/m/4981080027)

these give you a good idea of what some people like in campaigns, and also some examples of good campaigns.

danjama
04-29-2009, 11:40 AM
I used to believe a good briefing would create a good atmosphere, but then i realised nobody reads them so i have resolved to only do quick action, no nonsense missions/campaigns for online, and leave the deep/involved stuff for offline where i am actually interested in the developments in the campaign.

I wish more people who flew my co-ops online would actually read my briefings, sometimes they take me a long time to write, including quite a bit of background research (i'm a historical freak).

So IMO a good campaign has other things going on away from what you're doing. Has a moving frontline that makes sense. Has good briefings. Has correct planes/objects used for period. Has correct loadouts. Has correct waypoints for AI. Maybe background noise on briefing screens.

IMO some of the best briefings are from B17 Mighty Eighth and even more so, EAW.

EAW briefings were great, and the missions always huge. Loved that game for offline.

I've never ever completed an offline campaign with il2, because they get too sterile for me. I find myself moving on to a new campaign before i'm on the 4th or 5th mission of one i'm doing. That's a big part of why i started building my own missions, the FMB is fantastic.

jamesblonde1979
04-30-2009, 01:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by na85:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jamesblonde1979:
Atmosphere </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Please elaborate, I'm interested </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Atmosphere is a sense of being engaged with the campaign. It's about engaging the user on more than a superficial level.

Detail and consistency are important as well as providing a dynamic environment that conforms to a well scripted story line.

Challenge level is another thing, no one campaign will appeal to everybody so don't try to please everybody, just pick (or develop) a style that suits you and go for it.

Are you thinking of getting a campaign started na85? If I can help out in any way just let me know.

gorkyporky
04-30-2009, 04:45 AM
In offline campaigns i love a good written briefing, with characters and narative and such. Thats why I enjoyed Battle of Britain: Hurricane Season so much. Also, but this varies from person to person, i dont like long fight times, i like to get up, fly for like 5min, engage, fly back. And like someone said before, throwing in lots of objects on the ground doesnt make a good mission, it only reduces fps. As for online campaigns, i have never flown one. Maybe someone has a few suggestions as for which one to fly?

alphalvr
05-01-2009, 01:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by danjama:
I used to believe a good briefing would create a good atmosphere, but then i realised nobody reads them so i have resolved to only do quick action, no nonsense missions/campaigns for online, and leave the deep/involved stuff for offline where i am actually interested in the developments in the campaign.

I wish more people who flew my co-ops online would actually read my briefings, sometimes they take me a long time to write, including quite a bit of background research (i'm a historical freak).

So IMO a good campaign has other things going on away from what you're doing. Has a moving frontline that makes sense. Has good briefings. Has correct planes/objects used for period. Has correct loadouts. Has correct waypoints for AI. Maybe background noise on briefing screens.

IMO some of the best briefings are from B17 Mighty Eighth and even more so, EAW.

EAW briefings were great, and the missions always huge. Loved that game for offline.

I've never ever completed an offline campaign with il2, because they get too sterile for me. I find myself moving on to a new campaign before i'm on the 4th or 5th mission of one i'm doing. That's a big part of why i started building my own missions, the FMB is fantastic. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

erm i love reading breifings, a good story telling briefing + good mission is great in my book. i play non-dynamic campaigns to get away from the crappy briefings. im a suka for a good story and tell me which campaign you made that has this and ill dl it right now (if i aint already got it) and i promise to read the breifings (ill probally know them off by heart by the time icomplete each mission http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blush.gif )

triad773
05-01-2009, 01:56 PM
A good variety of static objects along with other air traffic around you so you don't 'feel' like the only actor.

Historical campaigns are ones I like more myself. Then the briefings are much more interesting to me, and I usually learn something from them.

Another idea I had thought of is if it is accompanied by some documentation- like a pdf with missions summaries or histories, maps, photos- so you could print them if you like.

crucislancer
05-01-2009, 02:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by triad773:
Another idea I had thought of is if it is accompanied by some documentation- like a pdf with missions summaries or histories, maps, photos- so you could print them if you like. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Extras are certainly nice to have, though not necessary for campaign enjoyment.

I d/l’d “Tokyo Pony Club” by PhilK the other day and found he included an interesting extra. A .pdf copy of “Brief”, an AAF magazine for the PTO. The issue in question had a story about Mustangs coming to Iwo Jima, which is the focus of the campaign. That was really a nice extra to have!

Some things that make a good campaign for me:

I like briefings to be limited in info or actually have wrong info. I want to be told what my objective is supposed to be, then have it change because there was something missing in the brief. And, the last thing I want to know is what was supposed to happen. Include that in an extra, but leave it out of the briefing.

Also, having the ability to attach a .wav file to a mission briefing is awesome, and it should be used more often. Heck, you can even have a spoken briefing if used properly. At any rate, it adds loads of atmosphere.

Hidden objectives are important, especially if one of the objectives is air opposition. I recall a campaign I was playing where the briefing stated that I was going on patrol, there was conflicting reports about what the Luftwaffe was doing, etc. The primary objective was to destroy Do335s, and I had a pretty good idea where they were going to be. Sure enough, I found them and creamed them. If it was a hidden objective, I wouldn’t have known what I was up against, and perhaps I would have run into them, perhaps not.

slipBall
05-01-2009, 03:40 PM
For me upon the spawn, a sence that the airfield is alive. Ground activity, to remind that this war is a group effort. A well written brief. with clear decription of the objective's, and statist and goals of the effort

Sillius_Sodus
05-01-2009, 03:46 PM
Zombies and Cheerleaders? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Phas3e
05-01-2009, 03:57 PM
I like busy active airfields and other flights to be in the air as well, I like combat on the front lines as well as movement behind the lines.

In depth briefings dont interest me at all, i dont get into them and end up skimming for the informartion about the coming mission.

Also fully skinned flights. I cant stand default skins in campaigns.

Zeus-cat
05-01-2009, 05:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crucislancer:

I like briefings to be limited in info or actually have wrong info. I want to be told what my objective is supposed to be, then have it change because there was something missing in the brief. And, the last thing I want to know is what was supposed to happen. Include that in an extra, but leave it out of the briefing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have used wrong info in briefings in my campaigns. That adds an element of mystery and realism to the missions. In my B-25 campaign I direct you to the general location of most of the targets, but you may have to search several hundred square kilometers to find it. The brieifngs are detailed and immersive (at least I think so).

Then there are people like Phas3e who says he has no interest with in-depth briefings at all. He would probably hate everythig I have made.

In general I have found people won't give you useful feedback on your campaigns. Once in a while someone does a thread like this, but you really don't get much useful information out of this either as one person says I gotta have this and the next says they hate that same thing. I ended up doing my campaigns the way I wanted, with the planes I wanted, with the briefings I wanted.

I usually put in a summary at the bottom of all my missions that tell you the basics: target, altitude, fuel, etc. That way after reading a long briefing you get a quick reminder of what you need to do.

crucislancer
05-02-2009, 10:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Zeus-cat:
In general I have found people won't give you useful feedback on your campaigns. Once in a while someone does a thread like this, but you really don't get much useful information out of I ended up doing my campaigns the way I wanted, this either as one person says I gotta have this and the next says they hate that same thing. with the planes I wanted, with the briefings I wanted.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In the end, making a campaign the way you want is the best course of action. I learned that lesson the hard way in music, where you realize after so many good and bad reviews and "critiques" that the only way to satisfy yourself is to write for yourself. Yeah, sometimes it's helpful to have a someone on the outside tell you how they feel about it, but in the end all that really matters is how you feel about it.

That's my 2 cents for the day. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

triad773
05-02-2009, 02:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crucislancer:
Extras are certainly nice to have, though not necessary for campaign enjoyment.

I d/l’d “Tokyo Pony Club” by PhilK the other day and found he included an interesting extra. A .pdf copy of “Brief”, an AAF magazine for the PTO. . . . That was really a nice extra to have! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

BTW crucislancer thanks for the info above. I have an uncle who was a Marine in the PTO who was getting ready to invade Japan, but the nuclear bomb made his service term shortened. I d/l'd the above campaign and passed along the pdf which I am sure he appreciated since he was in the theatre at the time.

I'll get around to playing the campaign when I get time- meanwhile thanks for the tip on that- enjoying that little time capsule in a pdf there http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Cheers

Triad

rnzoli
05-03-2009, 02:55 PM
A good "static" campaign must include a prelude to the actions, instead of just throwing you into the combat.

In the marvelous The Filthy Few campaign, we even had to go through training missions for basic navigations, carrier landings, or the usage of various weapons (e.g., Tiny Tims) in the PTO. This was an excellent ramp up to the combat actions coming later on.