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mynameisroland
01-30-2006, 06:20 AM
Another Fw that kicked the pants out of its Messerschmidt rival.

http://www.luftwaffepics.com/LCBW3/fw187-003.jpg

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.luf...Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN (http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.luftwaffepics.com/LCBW3/fw187-003.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.luftwaffepics.com/lfw1871.htm&h=280&w=431&sz=22&tbnid=txJRmYCBBqBjqM:&tbnh=79&tbnw=123&hl=en&start=4&prev=/images%3Fq%3DFw%2B187%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr% 3D%26sa%3DN)


And the favourite twin of obscure ale drinkers all around Britain.

http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/BARC/images/whirlwind-2.jpg

http://www.constable.ca/whirlwind.jpg

mynameisroland
01-30-2006, 06:20 AM
Another Fw that kicked the pants out of its Messerschmidt rival.

http://www.luftwaffepics.com/LCBW3/fw187-003.jpg

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.luf...Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN (http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.luftwaffepics.com/LCBW3/fw187-003.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.luftwaffepics.com/lfw1871.htm&h=280&w=431&sz=22&tbnid=txJRmYCBBqBjqM:&tbnh=79&tbnw=123&hl=en&start=4&prev=/images%3Fq%3DFw%2B187%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr% 3D%26sa%3DN)


And the favourite twin of obscure ale drinkers all around Britain.

http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/BARC/images/whirlwind-2.jpg

http://www.constable.ca/whirlwind.jpg

WOLFMondo
01-30-2006, 06:29 AM
Anyone know why the FW187 was never put into full production? Seems a bit stupid too me? Focke Wulf vs Messer politics or something? Seemed like it would put the 110 out of business very quickly.

mynameisroland
01-30-2006, 06:36 AM
Yes , it was faster than the Bf 110 on smaller engines and carried the same firepower while being more manuverable in turning circle than the Bf 109.

One of the offical reasons it wasnt mass produced was that it had no room for a rear seated radio operator and gunner. Yup one rear mounted Mg17 would make the world of difference against a Hurricane or a Spitfire http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

stathem
01-30-2006, 06:58 AM
http://www.johnjohn.co.uk/compare-tigermothflights/photos/DH98_Mosquito_2.jpg

fraidycat1
01-30-2006, 07:26 AM
Wow, looks like the position of those guns would hard on the ears.

Unknown-Pilot
01-30-2006, 07:49 AM
http://home.att.net/~C.C.Jordan/f7f-1.JPG

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

LEBillfish
01-30-2006, 07:49 AM
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/8217/fgun/fm1-b.jpg

mynameisroland
01-30-2006, 07:54 AM
Is that a hairdryer intake behind that turret gunners head?

F19_Olli72
01-30-2006, 08:40 AM
http://www.umt.fme.vutbr.cz/~ruja/modely/podklady/PZL_P-38/2.jpg

http://www.umt.fme.vutbr.cz/~ruja/modely/podklady/Tomasevic-pegas/1.jpg

http://www.umt.fme.vutbr.cz/~ruja/modely/podklady/SNC/SE-100/1.jpg

http://www.umt.fme.vutbr.cz/~ruja/modely/podklady/H-232/3.jpg

Propably cr@p performancewise...but at least they look good, and thats what counts http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Kocur_
01-30-2006, 09:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by F19_Olli72:
http://www.umt.fme.vutbr.cz/~ruja/modely/podklady/PZL_P-38/2.jpg

http://www.umt.fme.vutbr.cz/~ruja/modely/podklady/Tomasevic-pegas/1.jpg

http://www.umt.fme.vutbr.cz/~ruja/modely/podklady/SNC/SE-100/1.jpg

http://www.umt.fme.vutbr.cz/~ruja/modely/podklady/H-232/3.jpg

Propably cr@p performancewise...but at least they look good, and thats what counts http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Emm, is this to be more riddles? If so, than answers are in pics links http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
EDIT: http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1072.gif wrong threadhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

PZL P.38 Wilk
Pegasus - proposed cheap Sturmovik ersats with two M-11 engines from Po-2
SNCASE SE-100 aka LeO-50
Hanriot H-232

horseback
01-30-2006, 10:42 AM
After looking at the Falke, one no longer has to wonder where Messerschmitt got the idea for the Hornisse...

cheers

horseback

StG2_Schlachter
01-30-2006, 11:18 AM
Similar case was the He-100 which was faster than the Bf-109, but Messerschmitt still got the contract.

Imagine the Ki-61 (which is almost a He-100) as the LW main fighter in the early years instead of the 109.

faustnik
01-30-2006, 11:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by StG2_Schlachter:
Similar case was the He-100 which was faster than the Bf-109, but Messerschmitt still got the contract.

Imagine the Ki-61 (which is almost a He-100) as the LW main fighter in the early years instead of the 109. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep, it's now how good you are, it's who you know. Messerschmitt was well connected.


Anyway we already have THE ULTIMATE TWIN in the sim, P-38, no contest.

Kocur_
01-30-2006, 11:36 AM
With a small note, that Bf-109 competitor was He-112 and Ki-61 has nothing to do with He-100.

Unknown-Pilot
01-30-2006, 11:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by faustnik:
Anyway we already have THE ULTIMATE TWIN in the sim, P-38, no contest. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Unless, or until, the P-38 can transform into the F7F, that statement is patently untrue. Be sure!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

mynameisroland
01-30-2006, 12:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by faustnik:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by StG2_Schlachter:
Similar case was the He-100 which was faster than the Bf-109, but Messerschmitt still got the contract.

Imagine the Ki-61 (which is almost a He-100) as the LW main fighter in the early years instead of the 109. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep, it's now how good you are, it's who you know. Messerschmitt was well connected.


Anyway we already have THE ULTIMATE TWIN in the sim, P-38, no contest. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Soon to be ousted by one uber twin the Do 335 and the real uber Twin of WW2 the MOSSIE ! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

stathem
01-30-2006, 12:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by faustnik:

Yep, it's now how good you are, it's who you know. Messerschmitt was well connected.


</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

still is, even today http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

StG2_Schlachter
01-30-2006, 12:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kocur_:
With a small note, that Bf-109 competitor was He-112 and Ki-61 has nothing to do with He-100. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Several He-100D-0 were sent to Japan for evaluation. It is commonly accepted, that the Ki-61 is strongly influenced by this design.

Just compare the planes:

http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/747/vergleich1vz.jpg

The He-112 is another design, which also lost in the competition with Messerschmitt. Only a small number of prototypes were tested with the "Legion Condor". However it was later used in the Hungarian and Rumainian Airforces.

But anyway, back to topic I'd say http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Unknown-Pilot
01-30-2006, 12:41 PM
Wasn't the "112" just a propaganda name for the 100? Or was it the other way 'round?

JG53Frankyboy
01-30-2006, 12:50 PM
they are different planes.

He112 and He100 are not the same ,
http://www.luftwaffepics.com/

and btw, the japanese Navy purchased a dozen He112B as A7He1 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Crop-Duster.
01-30-2006, 12:53 PM
http://www.1000aircraftphotos.com/APS/2903.jpg

StG2_Schlachter
01-30-2006, 12:56 PM
No no..

The He-112 was an earlier design than the 100 (confusing i know).

The 112 was the first competitor of the 109.
When the RLM adopted the 109 as the LW standard fighter Ernst Heinkel defiantly created the He-100. It was superior to the earlier 109 models and achieved a top speed of 746 kph in 1939. The problem with the He-100 was, that the cooling would become insufficient, if a more powerful engine was installed.

The He-100 was renamed He-113 to make it more attractive for export.

Kocur_
01-30-2006, 01:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by StG2_Schlachter:

The He-112 is another design, which also lost in the competition with Messerschmitt. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Also? He-100 did not compete with any Messerschmitt design.

Did Ki-61 have anything unusual regarding cooling system http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif? And any unusually low number of rivet joints in Ki-61? If not - I'll keep thinking, they just look similarly.

StG2_Schlachter
01-30-2006, 01:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kocur_:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by StG2_Schlachter:

The He-112 is another design, which also lost in the competition with Messerschmitt. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Also? He-100 did not compete with any Messerschmitt design.

Did Ki-100 have anything unusual regarding cooling system http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif? And any unusually low number of rivet joints in Ki-61? If not - I'll keep thinking, they just look similarly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What has the Ki-100 to do with it?

The Ki-61 were powered by licensed DB motors.
The He-100 and Ki-61 look almost identical!

Kocur_
01-30-2006, 01:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by StG2_Schlachter:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kocur_:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by StG2_Schlachter:

The He-112 is another design, which also lost in the competition with Messerschmitt. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Also? He-100 did not compete with any Messerschmitt design.

Did Ki-100 have anything unusual regarding cooling system http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif? And any unusually low number of rivet joints in Ki-61? If not - I'll keep thinking, they just look similarly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What has the Ki-100 to do with it?

The Ki-61 were powered by licensed DB motors.
The He-100 and Ki-61 look almost identical! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

lol Ki-100 has nothing to do with it - I made a typo - meaningful in these circumstaces.

Still how planes look like doesnt determine their internal design. Two things only make He-100 worth noticing and could be copied or found inspiring: sufrace cooling and advanced, siplified technology of production. We know Ki-61 didnt have the former and if latter not either - inspiration would be only in shape.

StG2_Schlachter
01-30-2006, 01:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kocur_:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by StG2_Schlachter:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kocur_:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by StG2_Schlachter:

The He-112 is another design, which also lost in the competition with Messerschmitt. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Also? He-100 did not compete with any Messerschmitt design.

Did Ki-100 have anything unusual regarding cooling system http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif? And any unusually low number of rivet joints in Ki-61? If not - I'll keep thinking, they just look similarly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What has the Ki-100 to do with it?

The Ki-61 were powered by licensed DB motors.
The He-100 and Ki-61 look almost identical! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

lol Ki-100 has nothing to do with it - I made a typo - meaningful in these circumstaces.

Still how planes look like doesnt determine their internal design. Two things only make He-100 worth noticing and could be copied or found inspiring: sufrace cooling and advanced, siplified technology of production. We know Ki-61 didnt have the former and if latter not either - inspiration would be only in shape. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Where did I claim that the Japanese copied the internal design? It is rather obvious i was referring to the shape. I posted a picture with an external comparison not internal.

The speed of the Heinkel 100 made it exceptional back in 1939.

Philipscdrw
01-30-2006, 01:30 PM
What aircraft did Mr. Messerschmidt make? (Gosh, his name is hard to spell!)

Bf-108 : a successful 4-seat touring/liason aircraft.
Bf-109 : Very successful fighter, even if many were lost in landing accidents...
Bf-110 : Was meant to be a long-range escort for bombers, but failed because it was too unmanoueverable. Became a successful night-fighter more or less by accident.
Me-210 : Was designed chiefly by one of Messerschmidt's underlings. Messerschmidt changed the design in several ways and the result was a failure, a very expensive failure.
Me-410 : This was what the Me-210 was meant to be before Messerschmidt changed the design, as I understand.
Me-163 : Was designed by Lippisch, and manufactured by Messerschmidt.
Me-323 : Was built under the insistence of Hitler, as I understand, and was shot down in droves by the fighters of the Mediterranean and the VVS.
Me-262 : was successful, and limited by its engines.

Out of that, the only successful military designs made by Messerschmidt were the 109 and 262, assuming Messerschmidt himself was involved in the 262 design... was Messerschmidt as good a designer as history generally says he is?

Kocur_
01-30-2006, 01:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by StG2_Schlachter:

Where did I claim that the Japanese copied the internal design? It is rather obvious i was referring to the shape. I posted a picture with an external comparison not internal. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah! Rgrt then http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The speed of the Heinkel 100 made it exceptional back in 1939. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It sure did. And not even in terms of record flights - as we know Me-209 soon beaten He-100 - but those fully equipped He-100Vs and especially almost-operational Ds were still very fast planes.

StG2_Schlachter
01-30-2006, 01:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kocur_:
Ah! Rgrt then http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

It sure did. And not even in terms of record flights - as we know Me-209 soon beaten He-100 - but those fully equipped He-100Vs and especially almost-operational Ds were still very fast planes. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Right. The Me-209 was a special stripped down racing variant and was designed to beat the Heinkel. The He-100V-8 which reached 746.61 kph was a prototype. The D variant with guns still made 670 kph @ SL.

Another point is the range. It was almost 1000 km. With He-100s the BoB might have been completely different. But this is getting too off-topic now http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Kocur_
01-30-2006, 02:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by StG2_Schlachter:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kocur_:
Ah! Rgrt then http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

It sure did. And not even in terms of record flights - as we know Me-209 soon beaten He-100 - but those fully equipped He-100Vs and especially almost-operational Ds were still very fast planes. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Right. The Me-209 was a special stripped down racing variant and was designed to beat the Heinkel. The He-100V-8 which reached 746.61 kph was a prototype. The D variant with guns still made 670 kph @ SL.

Another point is the range. It was almost 1000 km. With He-100s the BoB might have been completely different. But this is getting too off-topic now http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, Me-209 wasnt just stripped Bf-109! No sir! It was designed specially for speed record breaking!

He-100V8 was modified for the record too and quite heavily: smaller wing (7,6m span instead of 9,42m) powerful but short living DB-601Re V (1800ps at 3000rpm, 30 minutes lifespan) and even putty in all skin panel joints.
He-100D-1 speeds were:
576kmh @ SL
620kmh @ 2km
670kmh @ 5km

StG2_Schlachter
01-30-2006, 02:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kocur_:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by StG2_Schlachter:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kocur_:
Ah! Rgrt then http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

It sure did. And not even in terms of record flights - as we know Me-209 soon beaten He-100 - but those fully equipped He-100Vs and especially almost-operational Ds were still very fast planes. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Right. The Me-209 was a special stripped down racing variant and was designed to beat the Heinkel. The He-100V-8 which reached 746.61 kph was a prototype. The D variant with guns still made 670 kph @ SL.

Another point is the range. It was almost 1000 km. With He-100s the BoB might have been completely different. But this is getting too off-topic now http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, Me-209 wasnt just stripped Bf-109! No sir! It was designed specially for speed record breaking!

He-100V8 was modified for the record too and quite heavily: smaller wing (7,6m span instead of 9,42m) powerful but short living DB-601Re V (1800ps at 3000rpm, 30 minutes lifespan) and even putty in all skin panel joints.
He-100D-1 speeds were:
576kmh @ SL
620kmh @ 2km
670kmh @ 5km </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You seem to know much more then i do http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

JG53Frankyboy
01-30-2006, 02:30 PM
not to forgett , there were two very different Me209 around http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://www.luftwaffepics.com/lme2091.htm

ARCHIE_CALVERT
01-30-2006, 03:49 PM
Ultimate 1940 Twin‚‚ā¨¬¶ (Piston Engine)

I would say in 1940 it was the Westland Whirlwind, followed by the DeHavilland Mosquito for the majority of the War and finally culminating in the DeHavilland Hornet.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v187/Secudus/Whirly202.jpg

http://www.ne.jp/asahi/airplane/museum/cl-pln4/images6/400mosqu.jpg

http://www.vflintham.demon.co.uk/aircraft/hornet/horncov.jpg

Next topic...

Low_Flyer_MkII
01-30-2006, 03:53 PM
Owned! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/Low_Flyer/Whirly2800.jpg

Unknown-Pilot
01-30-2006, 03:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Low_Flyer_MkII:
Owned! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Heh, keep dreaming.

Grumman r0xx0rz j0r b0xx0rz. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

http://www.air-and-space.com/20040516%20Chino/Dsc_0681%20F7F-3P%20NX6178C%20F7F-3N%20Big%20Bossman%20right%20front%20in%20flight%2 0l.jpg

ARCHIE_CALVERT
01-30-2006, 03:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Low_Flyer_MkII:
Owned! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Give me five bro... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

ARCHIE_CALVERT
01-30-2006, 03:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Unknown-Pilot:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Low_Flyer_MkII:
Owned! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/Low_Flyer/Whirly2800.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Heh, keep dreaming.

Grumman r0xx0rz j0r b0xx0rz. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The thread said 1940 Twins... But the Hornet makes the Grumman look like a lump of lard on ice... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Low_Flyer_MkII
01-30-2006, 03:59 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

tigertalon
01-30-2006, 04:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Unknown-Pilot:
Wasn't the "112" just a propaganda name for the 100? Or was it the other way 'round? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, He113 was the Goebbels propaganda product. It was so convincing, that British and Soviet pilots countinuously reported of combats with He113. In the La5 manual they even described techniques how to fight against Bf109, Fw190 and He113...

He113 never existed, there were He112 (which failed in a beatup with messerschmitt in 1935), and He100, which was way newer design and emerged in 1938.

ARCHIE_CALVERT
01-30-2006, 04:29 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif Oh Dear... Well L_F, looks as if we will be able to go on some Rhubarbs together then... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif But we will have to learn to slum it in a Mossie... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Time to dust off that kit and get back in the old kite...

Low_Flyer_MkII
01-30-2006, 04:45 PM
Well, there are worse rides, I suppose... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/Low_Flyer/mossie111.jpg

faustnik
01-30-2006, 04:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Unknown-Pilot:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by faustnik:
Anyway we already have THE ULTIMATE TWIN in the sim, P-38, no contest. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Unless, or until, the P-38 can transform into the F7F, that statement is patently untrue. Be sure!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Yeah F7F, nice plane! How many a/c did it shoot down in WW2?

Unknown-Pilot
01-31-2006, 07:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by faustnik:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Unknown-Pilot:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by faustnik:
Anyway we already have THE ULTIMATE TWIN in the sim, P-38, no contest. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Unless, or until, the P-38 can transform into the F7F, that statement is patently untrue. Be sure!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Yeah F7F, nice plane! How many a/c did it shoot down in WW2? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Next people will be asking questions like - "how many of it's pilots liked cream in their coffee", or something equally as irrelevant.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

major_setback
01-31-2006, 09:48 AM
Well, it's a sort of 'twin':


http://img217.exs.cx/img217/8661/nmsinsitei2fu.png

Philipscdrw
01-31-2006, 09:53 AM
I reckon the glazing on the left-side fuselage was a greenhouse, so the pilot could grow his own food and stay aloft indefinitely.

Skyraider3D
02-08-2006, 02:39 PM
I noticed the discussion about Heinkel and Focke-Wulf losing it to inferior Messerschmitt designs. Besides Messerschmitt's obvious popularity within the German high command, there are more factors that decide what makes a good aircraft. These factors include the ability to be mass produced, reliability, serviceabilty and cost in any way shape or form.

Compared to the 109, the He 100 was a rather complex machine. The 109 was easy to manufacture in large quantities - something Messerschmitt always excelled in. The Me 262 was build in segments which were manufactured seperately, then combined in final construction. This technology was quite novel at the time. Nowaydas, most aircraft are built this way. Apparently Messerschmitt wanted to take this building technique to the extreme and designed a fully modular aircraft. The RLM's wet dream for a multi-task aircraft! It didn't get far though...
http://www.luft46.com/oddities/mep1090.html

The Fw 187 was a different case. Its weakness lay literally in its weakness. Focke-Wulf designs were often a bit fragile for combat conditions (the Fw 200 being a prime example) and the Fw 187 was no exception. It was considered too weak for combat and as 110 production was well underway, there was little interest in the 187. A small batch saw operational service in Norway though, but I doubt they ever saw air combat. If I remember well, they were used for high-speed reconnaissance.


As for my favourite twin... I love most of them, no matter how clumsy they were in combat. Twins just look cool! Some favourites are the Ta 154 C (with teardrop canopy), the P1Y Ginga (a bomber that looks like a fighter) and the Do 335 (a twin but different). But the gold price should definitely go to the DeHavilland Hornet... what a beauty http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Abbuzze
02-08-2006, 02:51 PM
The He112 had much more parts than the Me109. Therefore the He100 was optimised, with not much more (but still more) parts than the 109.

For the FW. It was faster than a 109 with the same engines!

But it was a fighter that need 2 engines, so much more expansive than the 109.
For a Zerst√¬∂rer, it missed the 2nd crewmember, which was necessary, like the Luftwaffe high command believed, but with it performance it would be the destroyer in the BoB, which the 110 never was...

ImpStarDuece
02-08-2006, 03:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by StG2_Schlachter:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kocur_:
With a small note, that Bf-109 competitor was He-112 and Ki-61 has nothing to do with He-100. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Several He-100D-0 were sent to Japan for evaluation. It is commonly accepted, that the Ki-61 is strongly influenced by this design.

Just compare the planes:

http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/747/vergleich1vz.jpg

The He-112 is another design, which also lost in the competition with Messerschmitt. Only a small number of prototypes were tested with the "Legion Condor". However it was later used in the Hungarian and Rumainian Airforces.

But anyway, back to topic I'd say http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Kawasaki finalised design work on the Ki-60, which was the Ki-61s most direct ancestor and part of teh same specification, about 6 months before any He-100s arrived in Japan. The He-100s were delivered to the IJN, while the Ki-60 design was a IJA contract.

Most of improvments in the Ki-61 design work were a result of flight and wind tunnel testing of the Ki-60, not necessarily from the He-100.

FoolTrottel
02-08-2006, 03:16 PM
1940?
http://www.aviationart.nl/Fokker_G-1.jpg

LEBillfish
02-08-2006, 03:25 PM
Nice find FoolTrottel....what were they armed with and did they see action?

FoolTrottel
02-08-2006, 03:42 PM
They were armed with guns: 8 Nose mounted Browning FN 7,90 mm, one 7,9 mm in rear turret. .
Bombload: 400 kg.

They did see some action, very limited, mostly from the ground .... being pounded by LW.
More here. (http://www.warprops.com/pag69.htm)

Google for it, it's a Fokker G1 'Jachtkruiser'
(Ain't she beautiful?)

Kocur_
02-08-2006, 03:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Skyraider3D:

Compared to the 109, the He 100 was a rather complex machine. The 109 was easy to manufacture in large quantities - something Messerschmitt always excelled in. The Me 262 was build in segments which were manufactured seperately, then combined in final construction. This technology was quite novel at the time. Nowaydas, most aircraft are built this way. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well planes were made that way, i.e. major components assembled separately and joined together to form complete airframe, for a long while before Me-262 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Undobtly Messerschmitt designs ever since Bf-108 were very well optimised for easy, mass scale production. Not only they used assembly tables for riveting and mounting semi-monocoque fuselages in two halves, separated in vertical plane, joined together in final assembly (parallel invention of PZL for P.7/11 and Bayerische Flugzeugwerke) but dropped fuselage frames as separate parts - those were formed by stamping fuselage skin panels, i.e. frames were formed by benting edges of those panels.
After He-112 failure Heinkel improved his designs in terms of easiness of manufacturing and He-112B and even further He-100 were as technological as Bf-109.
And soon after Tank's designs surpassed Messerschmitt's in terms of easiness of production. For Tank's wings for Fw-190 were produced like semi-monocoque fuselages, i.e. upper and lower half were riveted with full and easy access to everything, and then both halves were joined together, again with easy access to riveted joints, covered finally under non-stressed edses of wing. Fuselage was of course also mounted from pre-produced two or three sides (longitidinal separation). That makes Fw-190 the most technologically designed all-metal plane of its size of the era, at least to my knowledge.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The Fw 187 was a different case. Its weakness lay literally in its weakness. Focke-Wulf designs were often a bit fragile for combat conditions (the Fw 200 being a prime example) and the Fw 187 was no exception. It was considered too weak for combat and as 110 production was well underway, there was little interest in the 187. A small batch saw operational service in Norway though, but I doubt they ever saw air combat. If I remember well, they were used for high-speed reconnaissance. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dont think Fw-200 can be taken as basis for assumption about Falke weakness. It was designed as military plane and nothing indicates it was fragile. OTOH Fw-200 was an air liner, a civil plane supposed to carry limited load and be flown just straight from take-off to landing. Condor was just rapid adoption of commercial plane for military service, so it says nothing on Tank's military planes features. On the contrary - Fw-190 was rather robust plane. RLM dropped Fw-187 for both, khem... non-substantive reasons and wrong assumptions concerning Zerstrorer conception.

Willey
02-08-2006, 05:38 PM
Ultimate twin prop? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

http://www.luftwaffepics.com/LCBW4/Do335-V9-126.jpg

http://www.ubisoft.de/smileys/3.gif

wayno7777
02-08-2006, 11:23 PM
TA-154
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/wayno77/Ta154-V1-1s.jpg
ME-209
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/wayno77/ME209-1.jpg
ME-309
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/wayno77/Me309-5.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/wayno77/Me309-1.jpg
HE-219
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/wayno77/He219_1.jpg
HE-112
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/wayno77/He112photo500.jpg
HE-100
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/wayno77/he100-001.jpg
And I'm surprised no votes for the Beaufighter....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/wayno77/Beaufighter.jpg

Skyraider3D
02-09-2006, 11:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kocur_:
Well planes were made that way, i.e. major components assembled separately and joined together to form complete airframe, for a long while before Me-262 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well of course, the only way to build a big plane is to build smaller parts first. But the Me 262 was novel in that each segment could be built and finished in seperate locations - often in small workshops in forests. Then these parts were transported to an airfield and easily assembled to create the complete aircraft.

What I mean is that the wing was built completely with landing gear pre-installed. The nose was built with the guns already installed. This is different from the then standard practise of building the big bits then adding the small bits. Messerschmitt postponed final construction of the aircraft till the last moment, to optimise production in primitive circumstances. All big factories had been bombed many times over.

Nowadays it is standard practise to build different parts at different locations and do the final assembly on an airfield. But in those days it was new and Messerschmitt was a pioneer in this field.

I hope you understand better what I mean now http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Perhaps I should have said that Messerschmitt perfected modular design (they did not invent it after all).


Speaking of the 262... that's one marvellous twin as well!!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


PS. Wayno7777, some of your twins are missing an engine http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

StG2_Schlachter
02-09-2006, 12:30 PM
I thought this was about 1940 planes?

Skyraider3D
02-09-2006, 02:48 PM
1940 or 1940s? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Either way most aircraft mentioned existed in some form in 1940 - either as prototype or on the drawing board http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Purely 1940... my fave would be the Fokker D.XXIII - if only it had received its anticipated Merlin engines in the late 1930s. It would have been the fastest fighter of its day with a top speed well in excess of 600 km/h. I guess it combined the best of the Do 335 and P-38 that were to follow later.
http://www.locked.de/en/aircraft/Fokke-D-XXIII/fokker_d-xxiii.jpg.html

Ob.Emann
02-09-2006, 03:18 PM
I've always loved the Fw187. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

wayno7777
02-10-2006, 01:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Skyraider3D:

Speaking of the 262... that's one marvellous twin as well!!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


PS. Wayno7777, some of your twins are missing an engine http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just reference for the 209, 309,
100 and 112....

Kocur_
02-10-2006, 02:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by wayno7777:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Skyraider3D:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kocur_:
Speaking of the 262... that's one marvellous twin as well!!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Khem! Where did I say above...? Not that I disagree http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Unknown-Pilot
02-10-2006, 03:04 PM
Having now flown the Mosquito (at least Oleg's Mosquito - read into that what you wish), it just confirms, Gumman r0xx0rz j00r b0xx0rz.

The Tigercat is THE ultimate twin. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

ImpStarDuece
02-10-2006, 04:55 PM
Pfffffft.

Give us a Hornet and watch your Tigercat get eaten alive.

Faster, smaller, lighter and a better climber, and still packing 4 Hispanos and the same bombload. Besides, it looks better too http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

Doug_Thompson
02-10-2006, 05:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Anyway we already have THE ULTIMATE TWIN in the sim, P-38, no contest. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

then ...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Soon to be ousted by one uber twin the Do 335 and the real uber Twin of WW2 the MOSSIE ! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Mossie is sweet, but I'll still take the Do 335 over it or the P-38.

Ultimate twin prop, inside the game or out? Twin 'stang has to be considered.

wayno7777
02-10-2006, 07:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kocur_:
[

Khem! Where did I say above...? Not that I disagree http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry, was in a hurry when I posted that. Will edit....