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The_Stealth_Owl
09-14-2009, 08:36 PM
I'm looking for the best speed, looks, Acceleration, Expensiness, and Awesomeness.


Good night everyone. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sleepzzz.gif

WTE_Galway
09-14-2009, 08:38 PM
None of the above ...

'69 'stang with the 429 cu inch Boss motor (the engine the 1100 dominator was designed for)


http://bradbarnett.net/mustangs/timeline/69-70/69/1969SuperBoss429-2.jpg

http://collectibleautoclassics.com/autos/1-boss429-01.jpg

DrHerb
09-14-2009, 08:41 PM
One thats been blown away by my FW-190 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Freiwillige
09-14-2009, 08:48 PM
Cost is similar.
B\C versions are faster and cleaner than the D version which added 2x .50's and had the bubble put on for better veiw.

So whats more important to you, A slight edge in speed and climb or a slight edge in firepower and view?

Choctaw111
09-14-2009, 08:51 PM
The MustangIII was pretty decent, but you just can't beat the extra firepower and rear visibility of the D model...

...and those 429's were GREAT engines by the way.

Eow_TK
09-14-2009, 09:09 PM
P-51B is best IMO, but the D model is what i fly most for some reason.

Bearcat99
09-14-2009, 09:45 PM
I like them all for different reasons... The B&C are pretty much the same and both handle better than the D.. The D-20 has he K-14 sight.. and both Ds benifit from the extra guns and better visability.. The MkIII is faster and handles best of them all.. I am talking stock Mustangs here..

Buzzsaw-
09-14-2009, 09:57 PM
Salute

Depends on the war year.

If its 1942, the P-51A in RAF service with four 20mm, with a top speed above the 109, and capable of outturning the 190, looks pretty good.

Romanator21
09-15-2009, 01:28 AM
I don't like the look of the P-51 D! There I said it! Blasphemy! The lines of the B are the nicest in my opinion. 4 .50s are enough to do the job. But the gyro sight and 2 more .50s are nice too.

Freiwillige
09-15-2009, 01:44 AM
Actually the P-51B and C are the same aircraft the only difference is which plant they were made at!

The mustang MKIII is the British designation for P-51B\C

In game the Mustang MkIII has the blown canopy that allot of P-51B\C's were retrofitted with later.

So P-51B\C\MKIII same aircraft.

Phas3e
09-15-2009, 01:52 AM
Pretty sure the Mustang III was tuned differently or had higher boost or something that made it faster than the US 51B/C

WOLFMondo
09-15-2009, 03:07 AM
The British Mustang MKIII used a higher boost and different fuel. Definately my favorite Mustang.

Viper2005_
09-15-2009, 03:49 AM
There is no actual difference between the Mustang III and the P-51B/C apart from the paperwork and paint scheme.

A P-51B or C off the line would effectively become a Mustang III upon allocation to the RAF.

Most Mustang IIIs spent most of their time with a 67" Hg WEP rating. This is actually +18.25 psi boost. The "correct" rating for the Merlin 60 series on 100 octane fuel was +18 psi, but that would have been 66.55" Hg on an American boost gauge, so it seems that somebody simply decided to round up to the nearest whole inch of Mercury, which would have been worth about 10 extra horsepower...

A subset of Mustang III aircraft fitted with V-1650-7 engines (some were fitted with the -3) were uprated to "+25 psi" on 150 grade fuel. I'm not sure whether this was done by fitting a British gauge to achieve a genuine +25 psi rating, or whether the closest American equivalent of 81" Hg was used.

Anyway, you could legitimately call the P-51B and P-51C in the game "Mustang III" if you painted them in RAF colours.

The P-51D could equally be called "Mustang IV".

There was nothing in particular to prevent the USAAF using higher boost; I believe they did so sporadically. Following Oleg's nomenclature of course, if such an aircraft were to be added in a future patch it would be called a Mustang IV, though there would be no reason not to paint it in USAAF colours and call it a P-51D.

However, IMO more useful performance improvements could be had from fixing the P-51's radiator, which seems to be broken across the whole family; I haven't been able to demonstrate any difference cooling performance between flying with the radiator open and with it closed, though the drag penalty of opening the radiator is strongly in evidence...

Phant0m_99th
09-15-2009, 04:34 AM
The mkIII is diffenetly better than the b/c (just look at compare and how it handles in game)

(acording to compare - the mkIII is faster, turns better and climbs better than the D. Also being a b/c airframe it dives to a (slightly) higher speed than the D)(note: the diving speed was my observation)

But I like the D cus she is pretty

edit: I am well aware of what you are saying viper and friewillige but in game there is a difference

megalopsuche
09-15-2009, 05:04 AM
Can you please do a little research before you post a poll asking if the P-51B or P-51C is better? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

stalkervision
09-15-2009, 05:08 AM
i picked the "B" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

BillSwagger
09-15-2009, 05:12 AM
the P-47 is the best Mustang variant.

R_Target
09-15-2009, 05:43 AM
Originally posted by Romanator21:
I don't like the look of the P-51 D! There I said it! Blasphemy!

Lol, I don't like it either. P-51A is best for looks.

jmazzo
09-15-2009, 06:11 AM
D
One of best outlines in aviation

Bearcat99
09-15-2009, 06:26 AM
Originally posted by megalopsuche:
Can you please do a little research before you post a poll asking if the P-51B or P-51C is better? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Lighten up man... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif Not everyone here is a research hound...

The_Stealth_Owl
09-15-2009, 06:47 AM
I am a research guy.

The C is heavier but has something like 1600 HP.


Going to school, Bye. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

stalkervision
09-15-2009, 07:08 AM
Hay the "Twin Mustang" isn't mentioned here? That is the best by far! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

horseback
09-15-2009, 09:28 AM
In-game, the Mk III is generally superior, despite its lesser firepower.

It may well have also been the best pick in real life too, since it is my understanding that RAF Mustang IIIs were not retrofitted with the dread fuselage tank; I cannot say if the later production B/C/IIIs built under contract to the RAF ever came with it. In any case, not having the tank and extra plumbing would save a bit of weight and give you a better CG & handling behavior even with a full fuel load.

It has also been said by a number of Mustang WWII veterans that the blown Malcom hood was actually superior in several ways to the P-51D's bubble top.

Richard Turner of 'Short Fuze Sally' fame wrote a monograph on the Mustang that spends a good paragraph rhapsodizing about the advantages of the razorback with the Malcom sliding canopy, and he said in it that the blown hood allowed him to see behind and below his tail, while the flatter sides of the D model would not permit him to do so.

When you consider that the razorback supposedly was sweeter handling and had a hotter motor, it is no surprise that most combat units preferred the Malcom hooded B/C over the D models and kept them in operation for as long as possible. They were definitely still seeing combat in the late fall/early of 1944, almost 5 months after the bubbletop models were first issued in the ETO, many of them with the later 'D' fin fillet mod added.

cheers

horseback

megalopsuche
09-15-2009, 10:07 AM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by megalopsuche:
Can you please do a little research before you post a poll asking if the P-51B or P-51C is better? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Lighten up man... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif Not everyone here is a research hound... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're interpreting me in the weakest way possible if you say that I'm requiring someone to be a "research hound" before they post a poll, i.e. it's a straw man.

Freiwillige
09-15-2009, 11:02 AM
Originally posted by horseback:

It may well have also been the best pick in real life too, since it is my understanding that RAF Mustang IIIs were not retrofitted with the dread fuselage tank; I cannot say if the later production B/C/IIIs built under contract to the RAF ever came with it. In any case, not having the tank and extra plumbing would save a bit of weight and give you a better CG & handling behavior even with a full fuel load.

horseback

Like it was stated earlier only difference is US stars or English roundels.

To my knowledge the 85imp gallon fuselage tank was built into the aircraft at the factory and not retrofitted.

general_kalle
09-15-2009, 11:21 AM
The B or MkIII version is the fastest but as said earlier the 2 extra machine guns and superb view in the D model is great so i usually take D if available.

Bremspropeller
09-15-2009, 11:22 AM
If its 1942, the P-51A in RAF service with four 20mm, with a top speed above the 109, <span class="ev_code_PINK">and capable of outturning the 190</span> , looks pretty good.

But only if you drop combat-flaps and bleed off energy like a three-legged donkey http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif

Pigeon_
09-15-2009, 04:06 PM
I like the pretty pink ones, with a horn between their ears. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/inlove.gif http://media.ubi.com/us/forum_images/gf-glomp.gif

The_Stealth_Owl
09-15-2009, 07:06 PM
So whats more important to you, A slight edge in speed and climb or a slight edge in firepower and view?


I'm all for performance! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif

WTE_Galway
09-15-2009, 07:22 PM
Originally posted by The_Stealth_Owl:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">So whats more important to you, A slight edge in speed and climb or a slight edge in firepower and view?


I'm all for performance! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

well you want the P51H

not available in game though

The_Stealth_Owl
09-15-2009, 07:25 PM
Check out my sig.

Worf101
09-16-2009, 06:06 PM
(In my best Sgt Schulz voice) "I know nothing... nothing!!!"

But in this game I can't hit chit with a Stang D but with a B and a C I can do work!!!

Da Worfster

horseback
09-16-2009, 07:30 PM
Originally posted by Freiwillige:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by horseback:

It may well have also been the best pick in real life too, since it is my understanding that RAF Mustang IIIs were not retrofitted with the dread fuselage tank; I cannot say if the later production B/C/IIIs built under contract to the RAF ever came with it. In any case, not having the tank and extra plumbing would save a bit of weight and give you a better CG & handling behavior even with a full fuel load.

horseback

Like it was stated earlier only difference is US stars or English roundels.

To my knowledge the 85imp gallon fuselage tank was built into the aircraft at the factory and not retrofitted. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>First production P-51B delivered in June of 1943, and first examples were arriving in Britain by September.

At the time that the first Mustang Group, the 354th FG, was entering combat operations, December 1943, the group was equipped with Mustangs lacking the fuselage tank. It is reasonable to expect that the 354th would receive the latest models of the fighter available in Great Britain at that time, and these lacked fuselage tanks.

According to several sources, foremost of which is America's Hundred Thousand, the tanks were eventually retrofitted. Since the production of the B/C/Mk III went from June '43 to at least March '44, when the first D models went into production, a great many Merlin Mustangs arrived in Britain without fuselage tanks.

Out of 1,988 P-51Bs produced at Englewood, only 550 were produced with the fuselage tank, and the rest required retrofitting. It is probable that a similar percentage of the 1,750 Dallas produced P-51Cs were also built without the tank.

The RAF received 274 P-51B and 636 P-51C models, starting with 65 Squadron, which became operational in the type in mid-February 1944, or two weeks before the 4th FG, which had its retrofits, judging from its Berlin escorts of that first week in March.

Given the fact that preference for retrofitting with the long range tanks would be given to USAAF units, it is probable that earliest delivered RAF Mustangs, at least for the first several months, would not have the fuselage tanks and may never have had them installed; I have a number of photos of RAF Mustangs that appear to lack the fuel filler cap for the fuselage tank, some of them sporting D-Day (and post D-Day) stripes. The cap was normally painted red, and the area around it would generally be thoroughly fingerprinted and chipped, but these Mustangs have a very clean and smooth appearance in that area. See pages 15 & 18 of Osprey Aircraft of the Aces 7: Mustang Aces of the Ninth& Fifteenth Air Forces & the RAF, by Jerry Scuttd, for a couple of examples.

It would appear to me that the RAF felt no pressing need to add to the hazards of combat by adding CoG problems with a tank that wasn't needed for 99.9% of the RAF Mustang missions. I would contend that the RAF received mostly early production razorback Mustangs without fuselage tanks, and were not particularly eager to add them, not least because it kept their fighter squadrons from being drafted into the 8th Air Force on too regular a basis.

cheers

horseback

Freiwillige
09-16-2009, 11:06 PM
You learn something new everyday! Thx Horseback for the correction. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

yuuppers
09-17-2009, 07:08 AM
Originally posted by horseback:
Out of 1,988 P-51Bs produced at Englewood, only 550 were produced with the fuselage tank, and the rest required retrofitting. It is probable that a similar percentage of the 1,750 Dallas produced P-51Cs were also built without the tank.

Those were B-5 a/c becoming P-51B-7-NAs. There was B-10s and B-15s produced. Some C-1s had the tank factory installed, becoming P-51C-3-NT, but there was also C-5s and C-10s. I would think these later model numbers would have the extra tank factory installed.

Do you know why the designation changes?

There was 800 B-5s and 350 C-1s produced.

horseback
09-17-2009, 10:17 AM
I’m currently at work, but my source for the figure of 550 B models produced with fuselage tanks came from my venerable copy of US Army Fighters of WW2, by Green and Swanborough. Since the Dallas line got started almost 2 months after the Englewood plant, chances are good that any major changes in the ‘base’ production models would be necessarily delayed until the workforce there was considered ‘up to speed’.

Factory block numbers indicate a couple of things as I understand it; rarely, it merely indicates a contracted group of builds identical to the last batch, but in most cases, it identifies a contracted batch that includes a specific package of modifications or improvements of the base design. Some of the changes made to the B/C series during the production run included different engine models, radios, the change from fabric to metal elevator and rudder surfaces, and so on. Some changes were considered so important that they were ordered as a retrofit fit kit for all US Army fighter and recon Mustangs, like the metal rudders & elevators and the fuselage tank, and some were specific to a given block number.

As I pointed out, the 354th’s first issue of P-51B/Cs came without the fuselage tank, and depots in Britain were feverishly installing the retrofit kits in early December of 1943.

This tells us two things:

1) Most if not all of the Merlin Mustangs delivered to Britain at that point had not been produced with the fuselage tanks. It took at least a month to deliver a Mustang from Englewood (Los Angeles area) or Dallas to (probably) Liverpool, and a number of days after that for the depot to assemble, test, and deliver the ‘combat-ready’ fighter to its ultimate customer.

2) While the production models with the tanks may have either just been built or were just entering the production line, the retrofit kits were only starting to come in. Usually, a major change will not be introduced in the middle of a production run, and ‘field change’ kits are more easily assembled, installed on a fresh production model and tested before distributing them and fielding the retrofitted aircraft. Normally, production of such kits is a diversion of resources that starts as a trickle, and then builds up to the point that the required retrofits are completed. On the plus side, kits are easier to ship quickly and a dedicated team of techs can be trained to do the job quickly and efficiently.

At the same time that the Mustangs were being delivered to the 8th AF, the much smaller and simpler ‘paddleblade’ propeller upgrades for the P-47 were also being delivered. At the point that the 4th FG got their Mustangs in late February, ONLY the 56th FG had received their full complement of paddleblades for their approximately 60 fighters.

I’m going to jump out on a limb here and suggest that the Mustang fuselage tank retrofit was given a higher priority than the paddleblade prop kits for the much more numerous P-47 groups, and that the delay in bringing new & converted Mustang groups into the 8th Fighter Command’s order of battle was due to the time it took to get the needed numbers of retrofit kits and doing the work before delivering the fighters. The first four or five groups (including the first 2 RAF wings to equip with the Mustang) were not formed or converted on it until almost three and a half months after the 354th FG had entered combat operations, and then the number of Mustang groups started growing rather quickly after March 1944 as the final production blocks with the tanks already installed began arriving in Britain.

Now, can we UN-hijack this thread?

cheers

horseback

jarink
09-17-2009, 11:15 AM
Originally posted by horseback:
It has also been said by a number of Mustang WWII veterans that the blown Malcom hood was actually superior in several ways to the P-51D's bubble top.

Richard Turner of 'Short Fuze Sally' fame wrote a monograph on the Mustang that spends a good paragraph rhapsodizing about the advantages of the razorback with the Malcom sliding canopy, and he said in it that the blown hood allowed him to see behind and below his tail, while the flatter sides of the D model would not permit him to do so.

Took the words right out of my mouth...

scaredycat1
09-17-2009, 11:42 AM
The D gets my vote on looks alone.
IMO the P-51D and the early FW 190s are the most beutiful a/c to ever fly.
Beuty and the beast.. if you will.
Just my 2cents.

Blutarski2004
09-17-2009, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by WTE_Galway:
None of the above ...

'69 'stang with the 429 cu inch Boss motor (the engine the 1100 dominator was designed for)


http://bradbarnett.net/mustangs/timeline/69-70/69/1969SuperBoss429-2.jpg

http://collectibleautoclassics.com/autos/1-boss429-01.jpg



..... That motor REALLY SUCKED . . . . .


an awful lot of intake air.


;-]