PDA

View Full Version : Ploesti mission?



Waldo.Pepper
02-17-2005, 04:23 PM
I posted this here because the B-24 appears in PF.

Now that we have a B-24 has anyone written or know of a mission that has B-24 attacking a "ploesti" type target at under 500m. We have the IAR80's as well - and I have been trying to down a B-24 with one. Not easy at all - but doable.

Shakthamac
02-17-2005, 05:11 PM
ive been working on one, but its been put on the back burner since i started making my f4u/escort carrier campaign. the hard part is trying to get the b24s to fly at low alts without occasionally doing flips or whatever. every time the AI does something like that, it takes out other bombers or screws up the formation.

Saunders1953
02-17-2005, 05:45 PM
I've got a test mission. Just two bomb groups and no Rumanian or German fighters. I'm working on a more complete mission with all 5 groups, laying out all the routes, etc., and setting up "vignette" missions for various incidents that occured in RL--for a movie that will take me God knows how long, 'cause I have yet to learn how to do that. Also, I want to use authentic skins for the final version, and I'm no skinner, so I have to mod what's out there. But I'm still learning PaintShop Pro, so it will be a while!

I sent the test mission to another person on this list last week, and he seemed to enjoy it. Contact me offlist if you'd like it.

Also, what Shakthamac said--occassional strange AI behaviors.

Shakthamac
02-17-2005, 06:04 PM
i think the only real work around it is to set the height higher, but then it loses its drama

3.JG51_BigBear
02-17-2005, 06:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
I sent the test mission to another person on this list last week, and he seemed to enjoy it. Contact me offlist if you'd like it.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Seemed to enjoy it." Ha, its kick A$$. Those test missions are sweet. I just keep messing around with them, changing airplane types and my role in the mission and stuff.

Saunders1953
02-17-2005, 06:30 PM
Thanks, BigBear. Your commission check is in the mail. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Actually, I just ran it through to the target area, and no funny AI stuff. Go figure.

Shakthamac
02-17-2005, 09:31 PM
Saunders.

I would like to give your Ploesti a try if I could

Waldo.Pepper
02-17-2005, 09:32 PM
Me too sez Waldo!

Saunders1953
02-17-2005, 10:20 PM
Shak and Waldo:

"Several bogies headed yours."

Check your PT.

ImpStarDuece
02-17-2005, 10:37 PM
Has anyone ever tried to recreate the P-38 dive bombing of the Polesti distillation plant?

Here are some details as cut and pasted from the 82nd fighter group website.

The 82nd did the actual dive bombing and the 1st fighter group (also P-38sZ) covered them.

Something like 23 P-38s were lost on this mission while many more had battle damage ranging from light to severe.



************************************************** *******************************
MISSION No. 702 / 10 June 1944 / ROMANA AMERICANA OIL REFINERY, PLOESTI, RUMANIA

*This mission earned the 82nd Fighter Group its, 3rd - Presidential Unit Citation*

MISSION and TARGET: To dive-bomb cracking plant, distillation plant, and boiler house at Romana Americana Refinery, Ploesti, Rumania.

AIRCRAFT and CHRONOLOGY:46 P-38's off at 0530 hours; 7 P-38's returned early (6 mechanical, 1 cockpit); 1 P-38 pilot bailed out enroute to target near Nis; 38 P-38's reached target area at 0835 hours; 27 down at base by 1515 hours; 4 at friendly fields of which two crash landed; 4 lost (including 1 P-38 bailing out mentioned above); 4 missing.

TOOK OFF ..........EARLY RETURNS...........TARGET AREA........DOWN.......LOST or MISSING

95th------16-----------------4---------------------*11--------------**9-------------3-----------------

96th------16------------------0----------------------16----------***14--------------2-----------------

97th------14------------------3----------------------11----------------8--------------3----------------

TOTALS----46------------------7----------------------38----------------31------------8----------------

*Not including 1 P-38 of 95th lost at Nis, enroute to target

**2 of these still at friendly A/D's

***2 of these crash landed at friendly A/D's

ROUTE: As briefed: 410 miles to Danube bend SSW of Vidin; 180 miles to EAST end of Lake Balta Greaco; 60 miles to target; 20 miles to lake SOUTH of target; 175 miles to Danube SOUTH of Vidin; 40 miles to base or 340 miles plus to Lecco A/D or other alternate L/G's.

RENDEZVOUS, FORMATION, and ASSAULT: Rendezvous made with 1st Fighter Group at 0540 hours SOUTH of Ranfredonia at 2000 feet. 1st Fighter Group flew to right of our fornmation as far as Bucharest. 96th Squadron led, with 95th and 97th Squadrons in trail behind. Formations went flat down on the deck after crossing Yugoslav mountains. When 20 miles SOUTH of target, formation commenced climb to reach bombing altitude. On withdrawal from target, Group was split up into various sections due to the impossiblity of reassembling after diving through smoke screen.

RESULT OF BOMBING: 2 P-38's engaged enemy aircraft head-on near Bucharest and did not drop on target proper. One jettisoned; the other dropped on large, red 3-story building with smoke stacks.

36 P-38's reached target at bombing altitude of approximately 6,000 feet. Smoke screen was already well under way in target area. In bombing, the P-38's generally rolled over to the WEST , dove to 3,000 feet or 2,500 feet, releasing bombs, broke down and away to the NORTHEAST through the smoke screen which obsured the ground. Most P-38's had to go on instruments passing through smoke screen on recovery from dives, which were made at steep angles up to vertical.

96th Squadron was assigned the Main Boiler House as target. Although well covered with smoke, the boiler house was distinguishable largely because of the two tall smoke stakes. one shorter than the other. The majority of the 96th Squadron dropped on this target. Hits in the near vicinity are highly probable, but the smoke precluded pinpointing any bursts.

95th & 97th Squadrons followed in next to bomb the Cracking Plant and the Main Distillation Plant. These targets were seriously obscured by smoke and bombing was done principally by using the large adjacent storage tank to the EAST as a check point. No results of this bombing could be ascertained.

The remaining large intact storage tank between the cracking and distillation plant is reported to have been left in flames, and there was other evidence of smoke rising from bomb hits in the general refinery area.

STRAFING: (a) Aircraft on Ground - Destroyed - 1 Me110, 1 Biplane, 2 Ju86's -TOTAL-4....Damaged 2 Ju52's, 1 T/E transport - TOTAL -3.....All these A/C were destroyed or damaged on landing grounds between Ploesti and Craiova, except the 2 Ju86's which were destroyed on a field SW of Ploesti.

(b) Rolling Stock - 11 locomotives strafed and left enveloped in flames, 2 locomotives damaged, 2 troop trains strafed, 10 freight trains strafed. All strafing took place between Ploesti and Craiova.

(c) Motor Transport - 3 fuel trucks destroyed, 1- 2 1/2 truck destroyed, 1 truck damaged.

(d) Gun Positions - 2 heavy batteries of 4 guns each, another of 8 guns, were strafed and silenced. Approximately 20 other light and heavy positions were strafed in area surrounding target after bombing attack.

(e) Miscellaneous - Oil tanks strafed, also radar screen and station SE of target area. Hangers on A/D EAST of Craiova strafed. P-38's carrying bombs through to target, of course, did no strafing until after bombs had been dropped.

INDIVIDUAL BOMBING and STRAFING RESULTS:

96th Squadron:

Lt. Col. Litton.....Aimed bomb at boiler house

F/O. Rosier.....Aimed bomb at boiler house. Strafed oil tanks when coming out of bomb run.

Lt. Pinson.....Bomb hung up. Strafed 3 gun positions leaving target area.

Lt. Cardimona.....Aimed bomb at boiler house. Took snap shot a Ju-88 while going into target.

Lt. Carper.....Aimed bomb at boiler house. Shot at Ju-88 in target area. Strafed 4 trains.

Lt. Carrol.....Aimed bomb at boiler house. Shot at Ju-88 SOUTH of target. Strafed heavy gun and searchlight positions, also long line of trucks near refinery. Damaged 1- Me109 in aerial combat. Exploded one locomotive and damaged another.

Lt. Mikes.....Aimed bomb at boiler house. Strafed an oil derrick, tank, and locomotive East of Craiova.

Lt. Spence.....Aimed bomb at boiler house. Strafed 4 trains.

Lt. Sognier.....Destroyed 1- Me109 in aerial combat before target. Returned home alone, exploded locomotive near Niv in two passes.

Lt. Adelson.....Destroyed 1-Me210 and 1-Me109 in aerial combat before target. Probably destroyed unidentified S/E fighter. Left 2-Ju88's burning on field SE of Ploesti. Dropped bomb on 3-story factory building when pursued by enemy fighters.

Lt. Stegman.....Bomb hung up and jettisoned. Blew up one locomotive.

Lt. Loehr.....Aimed bomb at boiler house. Strafed 2 trains.

Lt. Willsie.....Aimed bomb at distillation plant area. Exploed one locomotive and strafed 3 trains.

Lt. Kidder.....Aimed bomb at boiler house. Silenced gun battery at target. Left two oil trucks in flames. Strafed locomotive. Damaged 1-Me109 in aerial combat after target.

97th Squadron:

Lt. Chatfield.....Credited with direct hit on NW corner of cracking plant. Destroyed two locomotives and six box cars.

Lt. Vaughn.....Bomb fell to left of Lt. Chatfield's hit. Destroyed one locomotive by strafing.

Lt. McKeen.....Bomb fell in area of cracking plant. Destroyed one locomotive by strafing.

Lt. Lette.....Destroyed HS-126 in air. Destroyed one locomotive, 2 oil trucks, 1 M/T. and damaged another M/T.

Lt. Col. Mason.....Aimed at cracking plant, explosion caused. Strafed airfield on field North of Craiova. Strafed 50 yards of light flak positions.

Lt. Tolsie.....Bomb hit part of cracking plant. Damaged 1-Ju52 on ground and 1 train. Strafed 2 gun positions, train and radar screen.

Lt. Plume.....Bomb hit just EAST of cracking plant. Destroyed 3 locomotives with box cars and 1-Me109 on ground.

Lt. Hood.....Aimed bomb between road and cracking plant.

95th Squadron:

Major Phillips.....Dropped bomb at NORTH end of distillation plant. Probably destroyed biplane in air. Silenced 8-gun battery, strafed another, and attacked railrod cars.

Lt. Stefani.....Aimed bomb at distillation plant. Strafed gun batteries and railrod cars.

Lt. Cavanaugh.....Dropped bomb into smsoke. Escorted P-38 home.

Lt. Collins.....Hit distillation plant or large tank. Escorted P-38 home.

Lt. Miller.....Dropped bomb in smoke. Silenced gun position NORTH of target.

Lt. Elberty.....Aimed at NORTH end of distillation planr. Strafed gun positions and railroad cars.

Lt. Roberts.....Believed to have hit NORTH end of distillation planr. Strafed troop train.

Lt. Wylie.....Dropped bomb into smoke. Engine trouble over target.

ENEMY AERIAL ACTIVITY:

Enroute to target, beginning EAST of Bucharest and while still on the deck, P-38's encountered a procession of enemy aircraft of all types heading SOUTH and passing them on both sides. These A/C had apparently just been scrambled to avoid an anticipated bombing attack. E/A offered attractive targets, but the P-38's could not engage before bombing assigned objectives.

A total of approximately 9-Ju52's, 2-He111's, 6-Me210/410's, and 3 unidentified fighters, and a Ju88 were encountered before the target, of which an isolated He111, an Me109 and an Me110 were destroyed, and a biplane and S/K fighter probably destroyed.

After the target, some 30 enemy fighters were seen. Of these, 20 were encountered, aas well as one Me110 and an He126, both of which were destroyed and 2-Me109's were damaged, EAST of Craiova.

Total E/A seen: 65; total encountered: 29. One group of 15-Me109's made aggressive attacks WEST of Ploesti on a retiring section of 7-P-38's, including a P-38 on a single engine. The latter was not seen again.

FLAK: A terrific and accurate barrage of light and heavy flak was thrown up as soon as the P-38's started climbing up NORTH of Bucharest for their bomb run. At least seven planes returning to base carried flak damage, and at least four of the lost and missing can probably be attributed to flak:

2 large red bursts at 100 feet altitude was observed by one pilot NORTH of Ploesti.

25 bursts of inaccurate heavy at Burazzo.

SIGNIFICIANT OBERVATIONShttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gifa) Many trucks on road between Ploesti and Bucharest. (b) 100-150 E/A observed by Lt. Adelson on 4 A/D's believed 6 to 12 miles NE of Ploesti. Three of these A/D's were on plain grass fields. Numerous Me109's and some A/C covered with canvas. Also observed on A/D's were Me110/410's and Ju88's. Aircraft were placed quite close together.

WEATHER: Clear, Visibilty 6 miles.

AIR-SEA RESCUE: Dinghy sighted from 6,800 feet, 60 miles ENE from spur at about 1115 hours. Reported to Wing.

RADIO SECURITY: Satisfactory

FRIENDLY AIRCRAFT IN TROUBLE: See Victories and Loses.

ENEMY A/C DESTROYED BY OTHER GROUPS: None observed.

VICTORIES and LOSSES:

Victories: 5--3--1:

Destroyed: Me110-Lt. Col. Mason, He126-Lt. Lette, Me210-Lt. Adelson, Me109-Lt. Adelson, Me109-Lt. Sognier-----Probable; S/E A/C-Lt. Adelson, Biplane-Major Phillips, Me109-Lt. Carroll-----Damaged; Me109-Lt. Kidder.

Losses: 4 - 4 :

Lost: Lt. Leslie - bailed out 20 miles WNW of Nis from, 1000 feet altitude at 4330-2130 hours. Cause of trouble unknown.

Lost: Lt. Welch - hit by flak, crashed in flames in target area.

Lost: Lt. Cannady - crashed in flames while strafing train, probably hit by flak.

Lost: Capt. Jackson - identified as plane belly landing N of target, undoubtedly hit by flak.

Missing: Lt. Laugeneur - on one engine after target when his small group of P-38's attacked by 15 Me109's. Never seen again.

Missing: Lt. Hodgson, Lt. Jefferson, Lt. McMonegal. Exact fate un known, but might be; (a) P-38 heard at 0840, saying on fire and bailing out. (b) P-38 heard at 0935, saying on fire and bailing out. (c) P-38 reported by 1st Fighter Group as hitting tree while strafing, 20 miles__ of Bucharest at 4415 - 2532 hours.

DAMAGE TO OUR AIRCRAFT:

From flak and ground fire; Lt. Loehr - horizontal stabilizer. Lt. Sognier - .50 caliber in left coolant radiator. Lt. Wylie - shell in boom/ center section. Lt. Miller - .50 caliber in nose section. Lt. Adams - coolant systemshot up. Lt. Col. Mason - Horizontal stabilizer shot up & holes in both engines. Lt. Plume - hydraulic system shot up.

By Enemy Aircraft; Lt. Carroll - explosive 20mm in tail assembly. Lt. Kidder - .30 caliber in right & boom. Lt. Adelson - hole in right wing. F/O. Rosier - tail assembly & right wing damaged.

SORTIES: Thirty-nine (39) effective single sorties.

FORMATION and FLIGHT LEADERS: 96th- Lt. Col. Litton (formation leader), Lt. Laugenour, Lt. Mikes, Lt. Stegman. 95th - Major Phillips, Capt. Jackson, Lt. Hodgson, Lt. Miller. 97th - Lt. Chatfield, Lt. Col. Mason, Lt. Cannady.

COMMENTS: None

CORRECTIONS TO TELEPHONIC MISSION REPORT: Note changes in victory claims.

"SIGNED", David Weld, Major, Air Corps, Intelligence Officer.

************************************************** *****************************

Mission Report submitted by, M.D. "Griff" Griffith, brother of, 1st Lt. Robert C. Griffith(97)KIA

Shakthamac
02-18-2005, 12:53 AM
looks like i have another mission to build

ednew
02-18-2005, 01:16 AM
ImpStarDeuce
Where did you get that? That was with out a doubt one of the most incredable accounts I've read. Please tell me where I can find more like that, PLEASE.

d13-th_electric
02-18-2005, 03:31 AM
Hi Saunders.

I would also like to give your Ploiesti mission a try.

Best regards,
/electric

Jaws2002
02-18-2005, 09:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ImpStarDuece:
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You can get some more info for this mission here:

Ploiesti May10 1944 (http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/vizanti/vizanti.htm)

Jaws2002
02-18-2005, 09:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
I posted this here because the B-24 appears in PF.

Now that we have a B-24 has anyone written or know of a mission that has B-24 attacking a "ploesti" type target at under 500m. We have the IAR80's as well - and I have been trying to down a B-24 with one. Not easy at all - but doable. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Try it again with the IAR-81C. Not that hard. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Rola.
02-18-2005, 11:04 AM
Some sources say that the last Romanian PZL P.24E fighters were used in defensive role during that air raids...

BlackShrike
02-18-2005, 11:43 AM
impstar the reason they lost a lot of p38s was due to fact that it takes minutes to activate fire control on those planes and i forget the reason but it wasnt done. they were sitting ducks .

Von_Zero
02-18-2005, 11:43 AM
the Pzl 24 and Pzl 11 were only used at the begining of the war against soviet bombers, where they did fairly well. anyway after the fall of Odessa (and the end of the first campaign for the romanian army) they were retired from the active duty and were sent to training roles.

darkhorizon11
02-18-2005, 12:19 PM
I've made a mission pack for myself for Ploesti. I posted in here before about it and some people were kind enough to send me some info to make my own.

I've only made two so far. I made'em playable on the Romanian side flying the IAR 80C.

The first is August 1943, the low level B-24 raid.

Next is June 10 1944. The Romanians scored a stunning victory over 15th air force P-38Ls bombing sent to bomb the airfields and destroy the Romanian air force. The mission is considered a failure as no bombs fall on Romanian airfields.

June 24th 1944, this is the one I'm working on. The 15th air force launches a high level raid on the facility, this time with P-51D escorts. The lack of high alt. performance of the IAR is apparent at this point and the Romanians suffer heavy losses, their glory days are over...

Thats what I got so far, there were some other sorties flown in between, if any body has any other mission ideas for the campaign shootem. I'd like to hear what you got. You can also email'em to me at phsrunner2001@yahoo.com.

Saunders1953
02-18-2005, 06:49 PM
D13_th:

Check your Private Topics.

mikeanders
02-18-2005, 09:31 PM
You say we now have a B-24? Where how. I have Pacific Fighters but see no B-24 in there. I don't want to install the Ace Expansion Pack, although I have it but didn't see the B-24 in that either. What am I missing here?

Shakthamac
02-18-2005, 10:41 PM
the b24 is ai in pf

Viper_42
02-18-2005, 11:44 PM
Someone correct me. I know the allies eventually got the oil fields but didn't the romanians build a fake oil field and then made the allied bomb that first?

Sharkey888
02-19-2005, 09:00 AM
There were decoys built, but if we are talking about the "Tidalwave" mission of August 1, 1943 I haven't heard of any decoys being hit.

The decoys were built assuming a high altitude bombing attack-not 300 foot(or less!!).

This would be a great scenario and an important one from the point of view of fans of the USAAF. 5 Medals of Honor were awarded, the most for any single action.

Waldo.Pepper
02-19-2005, 06:50 PM
There are, or rather were, ALWAYS decoys built to protect high value static targets.

Decoy and dummy tarters were built.
Decoy fires were lit.
Shorelines were changed.
Radar reflectors were installed.
Rockets were fired into the air.

If you can think of it, it was done to try and confuse attacker.

ImpStarDuece
02-20-2005, 02:06 AM
OK, the mission report was taken from the 82nd fighter group website, which has some very well documented resources about 82nd group missions

Web site is http://www.82ndfightergroup.com/

Originally posted by BlackShrike
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> impstar the reason they lost a lot of p38s was due to fact that it takes minutes to activate fire control on those planes and i forget the reason but it wasnt done. they were sitting ducks .
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, the P-38s were all in perfect working order. They were flying into a combat zone and were all as prepared as they could be.

They came in at low altitude but were picked up very early on, well before the start of their climb to bombing altitude. German and Romanian forces scrambled and, due to the early hour of the raid, thought that the attackers were attempting to bomb and straff the airfields.

There were as many as 30 109s and a similar number of IAR 81's launched to intercept them but many stayed on CAP at the airfields and were not treleased until it was realised that the target was the oil refinery.

Essentially the P-38s were caught at ingress, the escorts were drawn off and the bombers were at a disadvantage, at low altitude, where they couldn't use their speed or manouverability as well as the defenders and suffered very high losses as a result.

The P-38 DID have a very complicated procedure for "combat mode" turning the sight on (most pilots flew with the reflector OFF until the were in combat), changing prop pitch, mixture and so on. However, the standard respone time was about 30 seconds. Still an eternity when you have been bounced but its not 'minutes".

The Ploesti Mission was the greatest single loss of P-38 in one action in WW2. The reason was poor mission planning and alert defenders who made the most of thier opportunities a an equal fight.

CKY_86
02-20-2005, 03:16 AM
hi saunders i would like to give your mission ago http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

jagdmailer
02-20-2005, 09:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Saunders1953:
D13_th:

Check your Private Topics. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Saunders,

I would also like to give it a try. Please send.

Jagd

Saunders1953
02-20-2005, 01:14 PM
CKY_86 and Jagdmailer:

I'd can't get the "Invite to private topic" thingy to work for either of you. I need your email addresses, so try to PT me instead and see if that works.

Captain_Avatar
02-21-2005, 07:29 AM
Didn't they have a specially modified B24 on some of these missions? I seem to recall reading "Air Force" magazine back in the 70s and they had an article about the Ploesti raids. Some of the B-24s had .50 calibers attached to the nose and inside the nose of the aircraft. Anyone have more info on this?

Saunders1953
02-21-2005, 08:13 AM
Colonel Kane had several .50's mounted in the nose greenhouse with 2400 rounds, IIRC(I'm at work and can't check my sourses). He shot them all off in a few sustained bursts on the approach to target. Bombardier said it was pretty loud. Others had extra .50's mounted on their A/C

jagdmailer
02-21-2005, 08:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Saunders1953:
CKY_86 and Jagdmailer:

I'd can't get the "Invite to private topic" thingy to work for either of you. I need your email addresses, so try to PT me instead and see if that works. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Done.

Thanks, http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Jagd

Phil_C
02-21-2005, 10:06 AM
If its not too much of a hassle id love to give your mission a shot too if thats cool http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif