PDA

View Full Version : What do you use for air brakes.



Chris0382
08-17-2008, 01:59 PM
Just wondering what people here use for air brakes on planes not having air brakes. Besides throtteling down, what is you favorite way to slow down so someone on your six passes you.

Im eager to know a good sequence of commands to use so I can program a slow down button on my throttle.

Thanks.

Chris0382
08-17-2008, 01:59 PM
Just wondering what people here use for air brakes on planes not having air brakes. Besides throtteling down, what is you favorite way to slow down so someone on your six passes you.

Im eager to know a good sequence of commands to use so I can program a slow down button on my throttle.

Thanks.

dwagener
08-17-2008, 02:06 PM
Chop the throttle, skid/sideslip (aelerons & opposite rudder), open your canopy, lower flaps, open radiator, fire machine guns & cannon (desperate move), shut down engine (even more desperate), lower landing gear or hook if you have one.

skids & slips work best though.

Have fun!

Chris0382
08-17-2008, 02:23 PM
Looks like a job for a CH script. I used to have a script for a slide slip (while B7-hold rudder full hold Aileron partially). I got some thinking to do.

Thanks

LovroSL
08-17-2008, 03:38 PM
pull back on the stick... also gets you bonus E

Unless I'm landing-> slip or skid + gear and flaps when I'm slow enough and close to the airstrip

Bremspropeller
08-17-2008, 03:39 PM
I use geometrics of flight and force an overshoot instead of doing the Tom Cruise-show.

WOLFPLAYER2007
08-17-2008, 04:44 PM
Usually i reduce throttle and do some barrel rolls to get him past me, if that doesnt work i just try to find a way to stay head on to him...

If you are playing against the IA then you better pray because they are ruthless with you, unless you are playing early stages of the war..

Bearcat99
08-17-2008, 04:45 PM
Chop throttle, drop pitch, skid and drop flaps (Gotta be careful with that though.. in some planes they can jam). Even all that depends on the situation... if I am too low to get the E back I barrel roll or anything to get slower than the guy on my 6 and not loose too much E.

WOLFPLAYER2007
08-17-2008, 04:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
Chop throttle, drop pitch, skid and drop flaps (Gotta be careful with that though.. in some planes they can jam). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

some planes? i tought that flaps could jam in ALL planes...

Bearcat99
08-17-2008, 04:54 PM
Yeah but some of them jam easier than others.. it seems to me like the flaps in a Mustang will jam in a heartbeat.. at least this Mustang.

WTE_Galway
08-17-2008, 04:58 PM
sideslip (crossed controls) also lets you see better when landing and can throw off the guy on your 6's deflection shooting

Chris0382
08-17-2008, 05:07 PM
Well I got the slip script for the aileron going thanks to the CH Hanger

script
cms.a1 = js1.a1;
if( js1.b5 ) then
cms.a1 = 155;
endIf
endScript

Well flaps and gear will be great once the speed is slow enough (need to experiment). Will try a few thing like a throtlle 30%, a pitch up
etc also. Looking to do it with the press of a button.

I_KG100_Prien
08-17-2008, 05:45 PM
The bat wing.

KrashanTopolova
08-17-2008, 05:55 PM
don't use skid it can get you killed if you don't know what you're doing...fly a light fighter instead such as a Japanese fighter-(there's some even better than the Zero) - or second best: an Me 109 or a Spitfire).

sw25th
08-17-2008, 06:31 PM
Some of you have an easily misunderstood concept. Reducing prop or turning off the engine extends your glide it doesnt decrease it.

The maximum drag is created when the engine is operating but at idle with a high pitch setting (100% prop pitch).

This is why multi engine airplanes have sophisticated feathering systems.

sw25th
08-17-2008, 06:32 PM
after all 3 main wheels have come onto the ground and the engine speed is reduce to idle, retract the flaps, and apply maximum braking. You'll notice you stop quicker than with flaps out.

KrashanTopolova
08-17-2008, 07:15 PM
second I sw25th.

Also if you see a bullet stream missing you from behind it is clear the enemy on your 6 is too far away to try the shot and that you are actually in the more harmless segment of the projectile motion where even if you are hit the bullets may well just bounce off your metallic skin (they are certainly losing height and velocity) or they may actually fatally damage your aircraft if you skid down in an effort to try and avoid the bullet stream (a lucky shot to the fuel tanks or engine). Knowing there's time it gives you plenty of time not to panic.

The common first reaction (as displayed by a number of pilots on this thread) is to power off or do something such as dive, climb, roll, side-slip...anything in a panic.
Rather than an ad hoc approach there is an alternative and that is to take up the fight with tactics already developed for such a situation. It lies in knowing flight principles (sw25th) and your aircraft's strengths and having a wingman if possible...and practice. The question of tactics is not a simple question and since you did not name an aircraft type you are at a disadvantage already regarding an adequate tapping into the knowledge base of the forum.
You are likely to get quick answers only and then people move on.

mortoma
08-17-2008, 07:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dwagener:
Chop the throttle, skid/sideslip (aelerons & opposite rudder), open your canopy, lower flaps, open radiator, fire machine guns & cannon (desperate move), shut down engine (even more desperate), lower landing gear or hook if you have one.

skids & slips work best though.

Have fun! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Most of that works but slowing down by lowering a hook is not modeled in this game, has no effect. Same thing with opening canopy, has no effect, not modeled. Reason being is this type of stuff was added after most of the basic FM parameters were done. Would have been a lot of work to change FM code just to add the effects of slowing down by lowering hooks or opening canopies.

So those two are for visual effect mostly. Of course the hooks catch the wires on decks but that's about it besides looking nice.

steiner562
08-17-2008, 07:45 PM
As for catching the wire never go in full flaps as you will bounce off the deck and lose the gear.

unreasonable
08-17-2008, 08:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by steiner562

as for catching the wire never go in full flaps as you will bounce off the deck and lose the gear. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not sure I understand this ... I admit I have only ever done about 5-6 carrier landings in the training missions, but I used full flaps and landed OK each time, using high AoA and throttle settings.

If you break the gear it must mean rate of descent was too fast ... but that can be corrected by using a higher throttle setting ... am I misunderstanding?

na85
08-17-2008, 10:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">You'll notice you stop quicker than with flaps out. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because less drag makes you stop faster? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

KrashanTopolova
08-17-2008, 10:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by na85:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">You'll notice you stop quicker than with flaps out. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because less drag makes you stop faster? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

because less lift allows more wheel traction and more efficient brake?

KrashanTopolova
08-17-2008, 11:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by unreasonable:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by steiner562

as for catching the wire never go in full flaps as you will bounce off the deck and lose the gear. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not sure I understand this ... I admit I have only ever done about 5-6 carrier landings in the training missions, but I used full flaps and landed OK each time, using high AoA and throttle settings.

If you break the gear it must mean rate of descent was too fast ... but that can be corrected by using a higher throttle setting ... am I misunderstanding? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sounds like it was an uncontrollable stall at full flaps. Notwithstanding, it is a useful technique to use less flaps if the situation demands a higher speed and sink rate.

WTE_Galway
08-17-2008, 11:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KrashanTopolova:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by unreasonable:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by steiner562

as for catching the wire never go in full flaps as you will bounce off the deck and lose the gear. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not sure I understand this ... I admit I have only ever done about 5-6 carrier landings in the training missions, but I used full flaps and landed OK each time, using high AoA and throttle settings.

If you break the gear it must mean rate of descent was too fast ... but that can be corrected by using a higher throttle setting ... am I misunderstanding? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sounds like it was an uncontrollable stall at full flaps. Notwithstanding, it is a useful technique to use less flaps if the situation demands a higher speed and sink rate. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Same for takeoffs.

A good technique for "bush" takeoffs (in-game spawning off an airfield) is to start rolling with no flaps so the bumps do not toss you into the air too early and either use no flaps or whack in some flaps just as you are about to rotate.

na85
08-18-2008, 12:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KrashanTopolova:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by na85:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">You'll notice you stop quicker than with flaps out. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because less drag makes you stop faster? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

because less lift allows more wheel traction and more efficient brake? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Interesting... going to have to test this one

Chris0382
08-18-2008, 03:19 AM
this is for any aircraft offline were you are neck and neck with a foe. I noticed the enemy had let his gear down and I went past him. Lot of fun when you are one on one with an ace and he is twisting and turning - slowing and speeding.

Looks like Im going to have to toggle the button in stages some how. Slip, Pitch Up, prop angle - flaps down - gear down. Then a button to reset everything.

Is there a set speed at which the gear flys off and flaps jam for all planes.

OD_
08-18-2008, 03:27 AM
I have big ears...just stick my head out of the cockpit...works wonders http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Chris0382
08-18-2008, 03:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OD_:
I have big ears...just stick my head out of the cockpit...works wonders http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Then how about the Mary Poppins Umbrella Mod ?

Brain32
08-18-2008, 03:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
Yeah but some of them jam easier than others.. it seems to me like the flaps in a Mustang will jam in a heartbeat.. at least this Mustang. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Naaaaah, they all jam the same. You can use combat flaps without fear on all planes in game, however TakeOff flaps will jam even at quite low speeds and one has to be super carefull when using flaps in T/O position.
If you have flaps on a slider, you might encounter a problem where you pull it only a notch over combat setting and they jam...

Chris0382
08-18-2008, 04:21 AM
If I cant go directly to combat flaps for some reason I think a script setting an anolog Flaps axis to 20 may do the trick. I know combat flaps are a next increment down on Flaps-down and maybe that may work.

Bremspropeller
08-18-2008, 04:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">If you have flaps on a slider, you might encounter a problem where you pull it only a notch over combat setting and they jam... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

leitmotiv
08-18-2008, 04:35 AM
(Stupid Ubi auto censor) c-o-a-r-s-e prop pitch, throttle back completely, lower flaps. Famously, F4U Corsair pilots extended their landing gear before diving to act as dive brakes.

RAF_OldBuzzard
08-18-2008, 05:24 AM
Close leit, but not completely true.

The Corsair did use the MAIN GEAR for dive breaks, but the tailwheel remained retracted when dive breaks were deployed.

You can see that in action in the Corsair training video at Zeno's.

That is modeled correctly in Il2 as well.

K_Freddie
08-18-2008, 05:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OD_:
I have big ears...just stick my head out of the cockpit...works wonders http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That's nothing.. I whip my govs bra off and stick it out the window... The whiplash is heavy if you're not prepared for it... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif

unreasonable
08-18-2008, 06:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KrashanTopolova:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by unreasonable:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by steiner562

as for catching the wire never go in full flaps as you will bounce off the deck and lose the gear. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not sure I understand this ... I admit I have only ever done about 5-6 carrier landings in the training missions, but I used full flaps and landed OK each time, using high AoA and throttle settings.

If you break the gear it must mean rate of descent was too fast ... but that can be corrected by using a higher throttle setting ... am I misunderstanding? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sounds like it was an uncontrollable stall at full flaps. Notwithstanding, it is a useful technique to use less flaps if the situation demands a higher speed and sink rate. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you not mean higher speed and lower sink rate?

jdigris001
08-18-2008, 06:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dwagener: open your canopy, lower flaps, open radiator, fire machine guns & cannon (desperate move), shut down engine (even more desperate), </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is not really related to a "speed brake" trick but 18 years ago I was talking to an ex RAAF WWII spitfire pilot in Darwin who told me on a mission he had ran out of gas and hence the engine was "shutdown", just before landfall in the topend of Australia. He could see clearly see the coast line and the airstrip but the mudflats were below him and so were the crocodiles. He said: he cracked the canopy, lowered the flaps, (he didnt mention the radiator), and fired the guns! He reckons it was a known trick to quickly raise the nose of the spit without the inherent drag of pulling the stick back and inducing the elevator drag. He swore it got him that little distance home to belly land near the strip away from the crocs where a stick pull back would have stalled the plane and he would be croc tucker lol

dwagener
08-18-2008, 08:13 AM
Fly into the planet, that'll out fox 'em!

Xiolablu3
08-18-2008, 08:46 AM
Dont slow down intentionally, its a waste of energy, and energy is all important over anything else.

Use some manouvre instead, such as a barrel roll, rolling scissors, or yoyoing to force the pass.

When someone is behind you, you want to be thinking about diving away fast, not slowing down even more.

KrashanTopolova
08-18-2008, 06:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by unreasonable:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KrashanTopolova:

Sounds like it was an uncontrollable stall at full flaps. Notwithstanding, it is a useful technique to use less flaps if the situation demands a higher speed and sink rate. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you not mean higher speed and lower sink rate? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That would be the orthodox approach. However, higher speed and higher sink rate may be needed (at the threshold in storm conditions for example). The undercarriage of most naval aircraft are strengthened to take higher landing impact and push the envelope.

I think I did a track of landing an F4U on a swerving carrier in storm conditions once (I think it was an interlude track in a campaign called 'The Bismark Archipelago' placed with M4Today). I used full flaps however and breathed a sigh of relief when I made it onto the deck without damage.

I think I also did a track of two F3F's (or were they F4Fs?) in formation landing on a carrier in a skin download on M4Today). I still used full flaps.

Those broad wingroot Grumman wings were designed to have lift near the stall speed and can handle a higher AoA.

There on a carrier landing is probably the best place to learn how to slow down an aircraft.
Advanced technique would include lowered PP; RPM management and flying skills near the stall speed (undercarriage and flaps are already down).

Lowering undercarriage to slow speed was a common technique talked about by a number of veteran pilots (books). I've seen it done by German pilots on war footage. Cannon recoil was also used on final approach by Russian pilots (and by RAAF pilots as noted in post above).

In saying all this, I don't think the pilot after having slowed down would not have a tactic in hand of using energy again quickly.

M_Gunz
08-18-2008, 07:29 PM
Barrel roll upwards to keep sight of him but when you are above just point a bit up and raise
your height, you will slow down and keep your E and not lose sight.

Of course he may counter-move but that's true no matter what you do. At least by gaining
height you haven't screwed yourself on energy.

Jamming on the brakes in props is a desperation move. He can counter by zooming or doing
exactly the 180 barrel roll and climb which leaves you well and truly screwed. Keep your E!

Chris0382
08-19-2008, 03:34 AM
nOSE up and barrel roll is an easy one to program. Ill have to experiment and keep an eye on the speedometer.

Phil_K
08-19-2008, 03:59 AM
Barrel roll 180 deg, nose down (so plane goes up), full left rudder. Reduce throttle only if necessary.

M_Gunz
08-19-2008, 05:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chris0382:
nOSE up and barrel roll is an easy one to program. Ill have to experiment and keep an eye on the speedometer. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why not just fly it by hand and match the movements to the situation? Not arcade enough?