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stubby
06-20-2006, 06:02 AM
I'm doing a '43 Kursk campaign flying the fw190A6. The roles have been both tank attacks and base protection missions.

I can't seem to do anything against the La-5 or Yak-9 when accountered. They extend away from with ease and have the ability to loop around and catch me. They completely dictate the battle. If I do have an altitude advantage, I have a hard time seeing them. I end up doing a bunch of S turns in an attempt to spot them but doing so puts me in a bad situation. How do you guys fly this plane? Should I just avoid all enemy fighters and only seek out bombers? I just seem to get totally owned when I try to engage Russian fighters in this 190. Thanks.

stubby

stubby
06-20-2006, 06:02 AM
I'm doing a '43 Kursk campaign flying the fw190A6. The roles have been both tank attacks and base protection missions.

I can't seem to do anything against the La-5 or Yak-9 when accountered. They extend away from with ease and have the ability to loop around and catch me. They completely dictate the battle. If I do have an altitude advantage, I have a hard time seeing them. I end up doing a bunch of S turns in an attempt to spot them but doing so puts me in a bad situation. How do you guys fly this plane? Should I just avoid all enemy fighters and only seek out bombers? I just seem to get totally owned when I try to engage Russian fighters in this 190. Thanks.

stubby

Vike
06-20-2006, 06:38 AM
Have a good read! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Focke-Wulf tactics (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/9661024732)

tigertalon
06-20-2006, 06:51 AM
It will take you a long time to learn to fly 109 effectively, and it will pay off, so just don't give up.

Follow Vikes link, or do a quick search on this forum. Heres one of the links:

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/9661024732

Xiolablu3
06-20-2006, 06:51 AM
Possibly one of the hardest planes to fly well in this sim, the FW190A.

I suggest you get on a good server and fly with some FW190A experten.

Forget flying with the AI in a FW190, they are just too stupid.

Read the thread Vike has posted. Its totally different flying a FW190 to other fighters like Spitfire, La5, Me109. You should avoid turning and keep very high. And be preparered to do a lot of running using trim and your stick to make sure you are going as fast as you possibly can.

I think you can JUST outrun the la5 (nonFN) in a FW190A6 with rads closed WEP on. You can certainly dive a lot faster, use this to your advantage to extend away, dive at around 45 degrees and try and pick up 700kph+, Russian planes will fall apart at this speed and certainly lose parts if they try to follow.

Totally forget about turning battles, use attacks from on high to B&Z and if you arent in a good postion, then extend and come back.

UK dedicated 2 has some good FW190 flyers who will help you learn. (People actually seem to chat on that server so its good to learn)

WOLFMondo
06-20-2006, 06:59 AM
Against Ai remember you can't dive away and the Yaks and La's won't break up like they do when a human is flying.

I'm not sure but you might be able to step climb away from La5's and Yak9's in the A6.

Using prop pitch helps allot too. One on one your in for a tough fight, try to use the roll rate to your advantage if you get in a defensive position.

p1ngu666
06-20-2006, 10:06 AM
i would of thought ud best the yak9 easily, but if its ai...

HellToupee
06-20-2006, 10:30 AM
vs ai fly very very low to the ground, they struggle down there http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

stubby
06-20-2006, 11:29 AM
Thanks for the tips and link. All these years I've flown planes like the 109 and various Allied planes but never the 190. Based on what I've read so far and the tips, I best un-learn all the bad habits I've developed over the years. Thanks again.

stubby.

mynameisroland
06-20-2006, 12:07 PM
The Fw 190 A6 is a better fighter than either of the 2 Soviet fighters. It has 4 20mm cannons and two 7.9 mm machine guns. 250 rounds for the inboard cannons, 110 rounds for the out board cannons and 1000 rpg for the machineguns. You are carrying more than double the weight of fire power than both Russian fighters added together. Your aircraft is faster above 5000m it climbs better and it accelerates better at these heights. It needs an altitude advantage to fight the La5FN once you are around 4000m you can relax at this height the balance of performance shifts towards your aircraft.

You are able to out turn the Yak 9 and the La5 if you fly at a manuvering speed of around 450/500kmh try not and drop below 450 kmh this way you keep enough speed to ensure your advantage.The best method of fighting these two aircraft is by using hit and run tactics but dont think that you are limited to those. If you use Scissors you can swiftly reverse your position against the AI and against most human pilots. Another trick is to fight using a sort of roller coaster style. Try climbing and diving when in a turn fight, dont be scared to close your radiator and use max throttle when fighting, switch to 100% prop pitch when clibing and swith back to auto while diving. This way you are constatly using and building your energy if you manage it effectively you can dogfight for much longer before you run out of energy using these methods than if you stuck just to horitontal turns.

Bottom line is whatever tricks you use if the La5FN pilot is better than you and it is one on one below 5000m you are probably going to get shot down. This is why dogfighting with the Fw 190 is so rewarding you have to be a better pilot to defeat a Spitfire or a La5.

p1ngu666
06-20-2006, 02:28 PM
plus if u get in trouble, shallow dive to pickup speed and run away, erm extend http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

u could try flying the russian fighters too, find out there strenghts and weaknesses. imo i find yaks harder to fight in than 190s

VW-IceFire
06-20-2006, 04:44 PM
Between those three types of fighters the FW190 is easily the best of the three. Its faster, more responsive at more speed ranges, and it has far greater firepower. The only thing the Russian planes have going for them is forgiving flying characteristics and a fairly robust design (the wood gives them strength but weighs them down).

So what you have are two relatively easy planes to fly against the FW190 which I consider to be an experts plane to fly. The reason being that a newbie La-5 or Yak pilot tends to be able to at least take it to the enemy in some fashion while a FW190 flown by a newbie tends to be purely a target. Rolls reversed, a expert Yak pilot tends to be constrained by his planes limitations while the FW190 constantly provides incredible combat ability. Its not perfect and its not always the best in all situations but its an excellent plane if flown right.

So what you have to do is conduct hit and run boom and zoom attacks. Hit them, extend, keep your speed, attack again, reposition...and try and keep the enemy on the defensive. While he's there you've got him. IF the enemy breaks out of that situation or you find yourself in the defensive then roll away and shallow dive to gather speed. The La-5 and Yak-9 will out accelerate you in a slow speed encounter for the first few seconds but after that you can easily out accelerate them.

Ultimately, and many online instant gratification pilots hate this, the FW190 has the ability to either dictate terms of the fight in the offensive role or has the roll rate and speed to disengage at will. The only time you get in trouble is when the enemy is close (say 1.5KM or less), you're slow, and then you start to manuever. The reason I can shoot down FW190 pilots in a Yak-9 is usually because they attempt to outmanuever me...and thus bleed their speed away. The FW190 does not hold speed like the Yak-9 and La-5 and thus constant manuevering gives the attacking pilot a fairly good time to get in close and deal damage.

There are only a few planes you should truly fear in the FW190. They are the Mustang, the Corsair, and the Tempest. Depending on the year the Spitfire IX may give you trouble and may be worth fearing but its much like the Yak and Lavochkin in how it can defeat you and how you can defeat it. The thing that the Spitfire has over the La-5 and Yak-9 is in speed...the Spitfire IX can dive faster and maintain a higher top speed than the Russian fighters (except the very late Yaks and La-7) and is a particular threat against any of the FW190As. The Spitfire IX is not much of a threat against the FW190D-9 which again is only threatened by the Mustang, Corsair, and Tempest. A well flown Thunderbolt or Lightning may also be a problem as they are all similar for speed, dive, and killing power.

Vrabac
06-20-2006, 05:14 PM
Everything that can be said here on comparing performances of 190 with anything else has no point, because everyone else is AI. And AI... well they are weird. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Dive against them is useless, high speed roll is useless, on the ohter hand they are unspeakably dumb (which mostly comes to light on FIRENDLY AI http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif) etc etc.

Better start fighting people online, than you'll see some are actually easier to beat than AI, and some are simply uber. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Vrabac
06-20-2006, 05:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> There are only a few planes you should truly fear in the FW190. They are the Mustang, the Corsair, and the Tempest. Depending on the year the Spitfire IX may give you trouble and may be worth fearing but its much like the Yak and Lavochkin in how it can defeat you and how you can defeat it. The thing that the Spitfire has over the La-5 and Yak-9 is in speed...the Spitfire IX can dive faster and maintain a higher top speed than the Russian fighters (except the very late Yaks and La-7) and is a particular threat against any of the FW190As. The Spitfire IX is not much of a threat against the FW190D-9 which again is only threatened by the Mustang, Corsair, and Tempest. A well flown Thunderbolt or Lightning may also be a problem as they are all similar for speed, dive, and killing power. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ummm... you got things wrong. La5 is faster than fastest Spit on the deck, and La5FN is faster than A6. Acceleration doesn't need to be mentioned I guess. It's the La5/7 that are perfect 190 killers, because they are simply best at everything. So they are actually generally perfect killers. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Spit needs to be feared if you are at equal energy and he's close or if he has energy advantage in which case you better hide if you still can. La5 needs to be feared as soon as it spawns on the airfield. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

On the other hand, Dora is true wonder, it can maintain energy advantage over La5FN infinitely if flown well, and on higher alt it pwns almost anything, but again if flown well (still no stick twisting stuff like with 109, La5, spit etc). But again, problem is A6 again AI La5s so... This all has little meaning. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

RCAF_Irish_403
06-20-2006, 05:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Vrabac:
Everything that can be said here on comparing performances of 190 with anything else has no point, because everyone else is AI. And AI... well they are weird. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Dive against them is useless, high speed roll is useless, on the ohter hand they are unspeakably dumb (which mostly comes to light on FIRENDLY AI http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif) etc etc.

Better start fighting people online, than you'll see some are actually easier to beat than AI, and some are simply uber. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Right On. Well Said....i find 2 types of pilots online, the uber and the dead (guess which one i am) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

tigertalon
06-20-2006, 05:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Vrabac:
It's the La5/7 that are perfect 190 killers, because they are simply best at everything. So they are actually generally perfect killers. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

At low alt.

Once you get them over 4k, they are toast. AĆ -82 series gets breathless above this alt. On high alts Yaks are more dangerous opponents (especially Yak-9U), however poor diving characteristics always provide you with an exit window.

VW-IceFire
06-20-2006, 06:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Vrabac:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> There are only a few planes you should truly fear in the FW190. They are the Mustang, the Corsair, and the Tempest. Depending on the year the Spitfire IX may give you trouble and may be worth fearing but its much like the Yak and Lavochkin in how it can defeat you and how you can defeat it. The thing that the Spitfire has over the La-5 and Yak-9 is in speed...the Spitfire IX can dive faster and maintain a higher top speed than the Russian fighters (except the very late Yaks and La-7) and is a particular threat against any of the FW190As. The Spitfire IX is not much of a threat against the FW190D-9 which again is only threatened by the Mustang, Corsair, and Tempest. A well flown Thunderbolt or Lightning may also be a problem as they are all similar for speed, dive, and killing power. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ummm... you got things wrong. La5 is faster than fastest Spit on the deck, and La5FN is faster than A6. Acceleration doesn't need to be mentioned I guess. It's the La5/7 that are perfect 190 killers, because they are simply best at everything. So they are actually generally perfect killers. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Spit needs to be feared if you are at equal energy and he's close or if he has energy advantage in which case you better hide if you still can. La5 needs to be feared as soon as it spawns on the airfield. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

On the other hand, Dora is true wonder, it can maintain energy advantage over La5FN infinitely if flown well, and on higher alt it pwns almost anything, but again if flown well (still no stick twisting stuff like with 109, La5, spit etc). But again, problem is A6 again AI La5s so... This all has little meaning. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes at low altitude...where all the little dogfighting circles take place in online servers. But often fighting at medium altitudes the FW190s shine against them and I don't really fear the La's too much.

The La-5FN was designed or optimized to run down Jabo FW190s which were sometimes immune from interceptions and I can see that in that role the FN works superbly. But at medium and higher altitudes its useless. Its also TERRIBLE to control at high speeds because its controls rapidly deteriorate and its prone to breaking off control surfaces and disintigrating. So with those in mind, I don't fear the La-5 all that much. Its the aircraft with high dive speeds and high level speeds that worry me the most.

What you say is true but only in the singular context of low altitude combat. Over the broader range the FW190 and opponents behave as I had described.

p1ngu666
06-20-2006, 06:55 PM
teh spit IX should have the edge over the 190 at higher alts, 2 stage merlin and *those* wings, the high wingloading and poor power of teh A series at high alt compremised them alot against western fighters.

once u learn howto fly 190 its easier than nearly every other plane.

like vs yak theres much more todo, with much less, there main advantage is better turning, and low drag (yaks are really quick for there power) but there hard advantages to use vs someone in a 109 or 190.

even if u get stuck with a yak on your 6, theres a resonable chance u can evade until he runs out of ammo (they dont have much..)

Vrabac
06-21-2006, 02:37 AM
All true about altitude, but be honest and tell me how long can you stay above 4k in an average fight? Especially with Anton. And I wouldn't say La5/7 are TOAST at higher alt, they just lose part of their advantage (speed). Their high speed maneuvering is nothing especially bad, I'd say they are above average. Losing parts can easily be avoided by being a bit more careful about speed, and if high speeds are in question than so is altitude loss, and with altitude loss you come below 4k very, very quickly. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Against and with AI this is even worse since you can't really trust friendlies to help you out in time, so you'll have to rely more on losing alt to gain speed than to drag someone in horizontal. Also, AI don't seem to suffer from taking damage in high speed dive nor from decreased high speed handling so...

WOLFMondo
06-21-2006, 02:50 AM
Against human opponents its much easier in the 190's because of the break up speeds of the La's and Yaks. The 190's can dive and reach 500mph and leave the area but a Yak or La trying to follow will loose its wings, not to mention as you get faster the VVS planes tend to lack control finesse, in my experiance. Avoiding loosing parts by managing speed also means loosing track of the 190 your following at the same time though.

If all else fails take a Dora. Its the ultimate WW2 prop fighter IMO.

Pingu, a 2 Stage Spit IX doesn't have that great an advantage until things get very high. The A6 can still top 400mph at 18,000ft which is still superior to any Spitfire IX or VIII at that height, but as you say, the Spit is way more comfortable up there with those nice big wings.

carguy_
06-21-2006, 02:51 AM
Don`t fly against AI.It`s the most bogus AI type we`ve had ever.QMB are useless for estimating which is better.


When flying FW190 in combat you basicly should stay above 4000m and 400km/h.This way it is pretty easy,just watch it and run like hell if anything goes behind you.Now in packs you can do very well even against fighters but great gunnery skills along with gunsight-bar usage are needed.Even if the MG151/20 is still too weak,four of them tend to cripple the target with enough of a second burst.

If you don`t have good situation awareness you need to work on that if you want to fly FW190 succesfully.Other than FW190D9 and FW190A9 the Focke Wulf types featured ingame give no margin for mistakes.

And don`t zoom literally like they say cuz it won`t work.Just keep the speed and climb @max20 degree angle.Although you can try to use Erhorte Notleistung + 110% which gives really fair amount of power enough to leave anything but Spitfire behind.

Kuna_
06-21-2006, 03:12 AM
90% of the topics in this thread are - useless.

Most of the people here either -

- didn't read properly what was asked here
- don't understand the question

We are dealing with Ai here so you can bet that those are quite an aces + they have two major cheats - always see you and don't have diving limit.
Also, unlike before you are likely to be shot down in turnfight if you get Yak on your tail. Before this patch(es) you could outturn them easily in FW-190A on deck. Basically if Ai glues to your tail and closing you are dead in most cases even on higher altitudes (Ai will follow your manoeuvres).

I spent a long time fighting v404 & v405 Ai in QMB and on Ace level (equal terms) you have to be VERY experienced and careful player to beat them on contemporary planeset; e.g. FW-190A vs. Spitfire Mk.IX etc..

Hardest setup possible (historical?) I've encountered and succesfully passed http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif is Bf-109G vs. 4xAce Spitfire Mk.9_25LB on QMB "Realistic". Now that's a nightmare http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

It can be done but it's hard even for freakin seasoned veterans.

tigertalon
06-21-2006, 04:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kuna_:
We are dealing with Ai here so you can bet that those are quite an aces + they have two major cheats - always see you and don't have diving limit.
Also, unlike before you are likely to be shot down in turnfight if you get Yak on your tail. Before this patch(es) you could outturn them easily in FW-190A on deck. Basically if Ai glues to your tail and closing you are dead in most cases even on higher altitudes (Ai will follow your manoeuvres).
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I remember some patches ago it was easy: you actually wanted AI to glue to your tail, and then you would go into just a slight bank, some 20 or 30 degrees left or right, no rudder, nothing, just keep it steady in a bank, and voila, AI will discharge his entire ammo missing your wingtip for a yard or two. Dunno if this was fixed in newest patches though.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kuna_:
Hardest setup possible (historical?) I've encountered and succesfully passed http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif is Bf-109G vs. 4xAce Spitfire Mk.9_25LB on QMB "Realistic". Now that's a nightmare http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Whoa, this possible?? Hats off man http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

Vrabac
06-21-2006, 06:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kuna_:
90% of the topics in this thread are - useless.

Most of the people here either -

- didn't read properly what was asked here
- don't understand the question

We are dealing with Ai... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, but what to say on AI? Especially for planes like 190 that often needs surprise to kill effectively, and AIs see everything around? Can't give helpful answer except to tell the man to go online. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Ratsack
06-21-2006, 11:45 PM
Interesting topic.

Quite a few patches ago (3.XX) I took to practicing in QMB with missions like the ones Kuna described. My usual was a FW190A-4 vs two La5FN Aces, 2,000 m, good weather, Moscow map, 1600 hours, 50 % fuel for me and enemy. I usually go through a few and then change the enemy planes (La7s, Spits, MiGs, etc)

I usually win this one, although it got appreciably harder since 4.X. They will use their energy rather than blow it all to chase a gun solution. I have found low six attacks nearly impossible (the AI clearly has Spidey Senses), and I find the defensive rolling and negative G moves just laughable when they're not frustrating beyond words. The tail chase is pointless unless you suffer abnormally low blood pressure. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

However, I find that if I end up defensive, it is easier to get the AI to overshoot than to it is to get a human to do the same. They will then engage in a scissoring contest of your choice (rolling or flat), and I find this really useful for practicing snapshot deflection shooting.

I haven't been able to do what Kuna said yet: I tried last night with a Fw190A-6 vs four Ace Spit 25lb jobbies. In two tries I found I could get two of them and get the other two smoking, but they always got me. That long range sharpshooting gets me... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gif


cheers,
Ratsack

Rammjaeger
06-22-2006, 02:23 AM
I am convinced that offline one can outturn either the La-5 or Yak-9 AI in a Fw-190A.

Kuna_
06-22-2006, 04:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Vrabac:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kuna_:
90% of the topics in this thread are - useless.

Most of the people here either -

- didn't read properly what was asked here
- don't understand the question

We are dealing with Ai... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, but what to say on AI? Especially for planes like 190 that often needs surprise to kill effectively, and AIs see everything around? Can't give helpful answer except to tell the man to go online. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is many things to say about Ai but one thing is pretty much the same for them all and that is that in many occasions Ai will react the same regardless of plane they fly.

For instance they likely wont turn when they see that they are losing turnfight. Instead they will run aways from us and if we have slower plane we are toasted (because this is the part where Ai wingman jumps in http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif).
Ai is lethal in such tactic... so if player see that he can't gain on Ai he is better to give up or to try to climb.

Basically in faster plane player will gain (catch up) on Ai if Ai doesn't have wingman (because when dogfight begins both Ai and player will likely slow down and Ai wingman can catch up).

Also best tactic to shot down Ai (without him doing his exceptional evasive manoeuvres) is to gain on him very quickly.
In 90% of cases you will have turkey shot regardless of Ai level.

About differences between flying FW-190 or Bf-109 or some other plane againt Ai it all boils down to exploiting Ai weak points so in that regard we will always compromise and such fights are quite different to PvP battles.

Like I already said player must be prepared to deal with what I perceive to be toughest part of Ai FM (or whatever you call it) is superior Ai enemy detection and no dive speed limit.
That stuff affects player in FW-190 more than in some othe more agile plane (on low speeds).

But FW-190 is really superior machine to most Ai opponents that player can encounter, I have regularly shot down several enemy mchines per sortie vs. Ai. My personal record vs. Ai machines in FW-190 ("Realistic") is 16 in campaign mission (my flight intercepted four SB-bis flights and Hurricane escort + few other enemy machines).

What to say about Ai generally?
Ai is just as bad (good) as it ever was in some regards, all that has been fixed are some obvious Ai stupidness so we can't shot down them en masse as we used to.
Some players find it very frustrating but I personally do not.

I don't expect to meet 4x enemy aces and live to tell about it. Some human heroes do. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif
On some very rare occasions player can beat them *if* and I repeat *if* he does everything right.
From engine management excellent (accurate) gunnery and with decent dose of luck.

@TigerTalon thanks here are the tracks I've made
Bf-109G_vs_4xSpitfireMk.9 (http://free-vk.t-com.hr/domagoj/tracks/offline/405__kunabf109g_vs_4xspit25lbs_ace75.zip)
Hurricane_vs_4xHe-111 (http://free-vk.t-com.hr/domagoj/tracks/offline/405__kunahurri_vs_4xhe111_ace75.zip)

All tracks are made versus ACE Ai on 50% or 75% fuel (on some planes 50% is really low ammount). No height advantage on either sides, Ai flies in 2x2 (leader+wingman formations). "Realistic" difficulty.
More info can be found in README in .zip file.
Anyhow most of such matches are really frustrating because when I make one mistake I'm usually instantly hit by second enemy plane.

I have many many more v404 and v405 tracks player vs. 4ace Ais on "Realistic" difficulty and my personal favourite is when I attacked He-111 in P-40 and I obviously hit his bomb bay because he exploded in mid air. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

ps. I'm uploading stuff it should be up in few minutes, I'll also try to find P-51D vs. 4xBf-109G track that one is just like if I flew FW-190A because flight (fight) style is similar.

Ratsack
06-22-2006, 05:45 AM
I just tried that again as a matter of principle, and third time around, I got 'em. Well, nearly. I got three and smoked the fourth. The smoker got away while I finished off the others. Fw190A-6 vs four Ace Spit 25lbs.

I've found that the hard bank works for immediate guns defense, but it's very much a matter of timing. I still have no trouble getting them to overshoot, but they usually don't do it in a way that presents a sitting shot. This is unlike the human opponent, who often panics after overshooting and flops about trying make a hard target, but in fact just bleeding off E and slowing down in my gunsight. It's like it's harder to induce the human to make the big mistake, but once they've done it, they tend to compound it with lots of little errors. The AI is pretty easy to fox, but they'll continue to fly beautifully until you shoot their wings off.

cheers,
Ratsack