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Foxtrot-Hotel
02-20-2005, 08:05 AM
Hi, It's me again...
I have a question about the armament of the early p-39's... shouldn't they have the 37mm canon of the late p-39's too(except the p-400)
only the british p-39's had 20mm's, and a few p-39 d-1(only temporary)
could that be changed in one of the patches(for realism)
or could somebody give me an historical acurate expelnation....

VW-IceFire
02-20-2005, 08:09 AM
I'm also trying to figure out this.

The P-39D-1 probably should have the 20mm cannon. It was virtually the same as the British P-400.

The P-39D-2 should have the default 37mm...not as an option.

Or at least, thats what I think I remember reading http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Foxtrot-Hotel
02-20-2005, 08:45 AM
I read about the p-400 and the d-1, and the brits removed the 37mm, and put in the hispano...
after the brits send back the not sucsessful now called p-400's where put back in service as p-400's and the 20mm's where still uses, because to change them back in 37mm's would have been to much trouble....

VW-IceFire
02-20-2005, 06:47 PM
The way I had it read, the British requested that their P-39s be equipped with Hispano 20mms. Some of the P-39D-1 order ended up with the same armament.

Foxtrot-Hotel
02-20-2005, 07:17 PM
you could be right aswell, that would explain, why some of the d-1's were left in service with the 20mm. these few are the aircraft, which were suposed to be delivered to britain, but never started the jurneybecause the brits send back their p-400's, and the few d-1's never saw europe...
but the d-2's and most of the d-1's had the 37mm, which would be very nice to have. correct me if I'm wrong, but It can't be that dificult to change that right??

Frequent_Flyer
02-20-2005, 07:24 PM
P-39D-1 was the P-400, retaining the 20mm Hispano (w/ 60 rounds) cannon but having .30 cal.MGs in place of the .303 a small dorsal fillet gave the tail a new shape.
P-39D-2 introduced the 1325hp V-1710-63 and reintroduced the 37mm cannon.
What I don't understand is if the 37mm ammo. is HE point detonating a lot of my hits do less destruction than the 20mm

chris455
02-20-2005, 10:50 PM
Oleg stands by the current armament config for all P-39's, I went over this with him in an e-mail exchange some time ago. Oleg has in his posession a rare copy from Bell Aircraft Corporation of P-39 armament suites for each type of P-39 modelled in game.
The 20mm's are correct.
@ Frequent Flyer: Are you sure you're connecting with the 37mm M8? When it hits, you should bloody well know it. It is devestating.

Badsight.
02-20-2005, 11:17 PM
no Chris , the P-39 cannon is just as suspect as the MG151 , not many use the 39 on a day to day basis tho , so it gets less attention

chris455
02-21-2005, 12:21 AM
New since 3.04? I remember going through a P-39 "thing" along towards 3.0-3.02 and the M4 37mm was just deadly (if you could hit with it)

I sure hope all these bugs get fixed and soon.

ElmerFuddGantry
02-21-2005, 03:51 AM
The games pretty much correct as I see it. Some of the P39 D-1's were equipped with the 20mm and most went to the South Pacific. It was nearly identical to the P400, except for the engine exhaust, radio gear and pressurisation system. In the field most pilots found the 37mm would jam after the first burst and swapped it for the 20mm at the first opportunity. As for the D-2, I'm trying to reconcile the engine power listed in the viewer to other sources.

Foxtrot-Hotel
02-21-2005, 04:03 AM
mmh, but even the datbase of IL2 sais that the p-39 had all 37mm...I could live with that the D-1 had a 20mm, but the d-2 was produced and handed over with 37mm, which wasn't effective against zeros and oscars, but I tried out with a p-39N, and the effect on betties is devestating!@frequent flyer:it's much much better than the 20mm, the feeling of you, that the 20mm are better, is because of the higher firing rate, and better balistic,and precision of the hispano, try out on a betty, and you'll see whata 37mm can do!

JG53Frankyboy
02-21-2005, 06:13 AM
well, the D-2 should have the 37mm M4 as standart weapon, the 20mm Hispano as choice if Maddox want !
even its 3D modell is showing the 39mm canon http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
olef told me via email , in the past after PF release , they has not enoug htime to make two 3D modells for the D-2 ?!?!?!?!? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

andthe choice of armamants are realy stragne from plane to plane - think about the Bf109G14&G10 has no 20mm MG151 for the nose , and realy there were a lot of them in the skies http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Foxtrot-Hotel
02-21-2005, 08:01 AM
IMO this should be changed...at least one of the 2 new p-39 should have the 37mm...,or cool would be , a selectable weapon in the armament settings...but we need them defenetly...

VW-IceFire
02-21-2005, 10:43 AM
Keep in mind that on the D-2 there IS the option of the 37mm cannon. Its just that you can't have the 37mm + a 500lb bomb or + a drop tank.

Foxtrot-Hotel
02-21-2005, 11:36 AM
this should defenetly be changed, to a "37mm+bomb"-loadout, as it was in RL
and same thing for the D-1 would be more than OK for me, and It would be historically correct, because it concernes personal armamentchanges, and times where both types saw service at the same time...same thing as the G6 30mm cannon, which just saw later productions...a selectable "37mm+bomb"-loadout would fit perfectly....

VW-IceFire
02-23-2005, 11:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Foxtrot-Hotel:
this should defenetly be changed, to a "37mm+bomb"-loadout, as it was in RL
and same thing for the D-1 would be more than OK for me, and It would be historically correct, because it concernes personal armamentchanges, and times where both types saw service at the same time...same thing as the G6 30mm cannon, which just saw later productions...a selectable "37mm+bomb"-loadout would fit perfectly.... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Agreed completely.

Hedge72
02-23-2005, 02:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chris455:
Oleg stands by the current armament config for all P-39's, I went over this with him in an e-mail exchange some time ago. Oleg has in his posession a rare copy from Bell Aircraft Corporation of P-39 armament suites for each type of P-39 modelled in game.
The 20mm's are correct.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

While speaking about the armament, and chance that the incorrect gun sight was brought up? This, IMHO, really needs to be addressed.

Hedge

VW-IceFire
02-23-2005, 02:26 PM
Incorrect gunsight?

Hedge72
02-23-2005, 03:13 PM
As a Cobra junkie, I don't understand why the '39 is equiped with a Russian style gunsight. It should be modeled with the N3 sight, as are other USAAC fighters.

Nothing kills it for me more then when I scramble from Port Moseby in a D1, climbing hard towards an incoming raid, and get the lead Betty lined up...in my Russian gunsight!?

Hedge

chris455
02-23-2005, 07:51 PM
I think you mean the N9 gunsight? Good point.

Also, I stand corrected on the destructive power of the 37mm since 3.04. I just flew a QMB P-39 vs Betty in which I hit the old girl SEVEN TIMES with the 37mm and , while the visual damage model was spot on, the brute continued flying blissfully on until, quite inexplicably, my eighth round blew her to bits.
This from a plane it's own crews called the "Type 1 lighter"
Go figure. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif