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View Full Version : Fatigue/Endurance mix-up in Rub MOD



vanjast
09-12-2005, 12:03 PM
It looks like there's a mixup in understanding what fatigue and endurance is , and how it effects the crew in the Rub MOD.
Endurance is a short term thingy, where..
Fatigue is long term and is does effect your Endurance 'top end'..

But not to the extent that The Rub MOD does it. Also Rub does not take into account that even when you'e dead tired, if your life depends on you being 100% alert... believe me, you will be 100% alert. Been there done that.

So in order to allow you to 'cheat realistically' here's what you do. All changes are in the Basic.cfg file in the 'SH3/data/cfg' game directory. NotePad is good enough here.

Changing these values per crew type seems to enable that 'resting problem' that Beary disabled.
Beary's file:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/vanjast/ThisIsBeays.jpg

I just took some vanilla SH3 settings and put them in here:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/vanjast/ThisIsCurrent.jpg

Now this is the interesting part. These are the fatigue/endurance locations further down in the same file. You can set these to whatever makes you happy, but seeing that anything over 32x time disables these makes 'cheating' irrellevent.
This is a way of simulating auto crew changes.
Forgot to mention. To test these locations just stick in a 0.9 factor, and when you move a crew member to that location, he just dies with fatigue...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/vanjast/FatigueEndurance.jpg

have fun
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

vanjast
09-12-2005, 12:03 PM
It looks like there's a mixup in understanding what fatigue and endurance is , and how it effects the crew in the Rub MOD.
Endurance is a short term thingy, where..
Fatigue is long term and is does effect your Endurance 'top end'..

But not to the extent that The Rub MOD does it. Also Rub does not take into account that even when you'e dead tired, if your life depends on you being 100% alert... believe me, you will be 100% alert. Been there done that.

So in order to allow you to 'cheat realistically' here's what you do. All changes are in the Basic.cfg file in the 'SH3/data/cfg' game directory. NotePad is good enough here.

Changing these values per crew type seems to enable that 'resting problem' that Beary disabled.
Beary's file:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/vanjast/ThisIsBeays.jpg

I just took some vanilla SH3 settings and put them in here:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/vanjast/ThisIsCurrent.jpg

Now this is the interesting part. These are the fatigue/endurance locations further down in the same file. You can set these to whatever makes you happy, but seeing that anything over 32x time disables these makes 'cheating' irrellevent.
This is a way of simulating auto crew changes.
Forgot to mention. To test these locations just stick in a 0.9 factor, and when you move a crew member to that location, he just dies with fatigue...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/vanjast/FatigueEndurance.jpg

have fun
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Kaleun1961
09-12-2005, 01:10 PM
I would like to have the definition of exactly at what point the fatigue is frozen when using time compression. Is it at 32X or above? Saying "above 32" means that it is frozen at 64X and faster. "At 32" is different than "above 32." It's very important that distinction is made.

That looks like some pretty good detective work there, VJ.

vanjast
09-12-2005, 01:20 PM
64x and faster...

It's manual labour to restart the game about 20x while modding each individual change.
I sat 24 hours (game time) waiting for my crew to recuperate after a 18 hour 1-knot cruise in a bay infested with escorts, and nothing. They were dead as dodo's. Nah Nah! this is a no go.
So I went looking for the mod changes and re-modded, and it looks ok now. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

Whoops that picture is showing me editing mistakes #@$@#$ http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Bullbyte
09-13-2005, 03:42 AM
Thanks Vanjast for not only finding this little hidden "jewel" that Beary has planted in his RUb version and making us just installing it aware, but actually publishing a way to hack it out. Now that's service. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Anymore little surprises we should know about hidden in your code Beary? You're "renown" just dropped back down to LT. Commander here. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

All kidding aside, please publish or make aware of where the publish is of just what game play actions you have changed "down" from 1.43 to make the game "more exciting" for you.

Thanks Vanjast

Kaleun1961
09-14-2005, 04:12 PM
Van Jast, would you mind posting a copy of the files as you have finally edited them? That would be of great help to people who are not exactly certain as to how the final editing should look.

Thanks!

Kaleun1961
09-14-2005, 06:25 PM
This idea of van Jast has opened up other opportunities. If you look at some of the lines in that file, they also can be altered to suit your taste. I'm thinking of the lines for renown, medals, promotions and time. They can also be edited. I would suggest modifying them by the factor of your "difficulty" or "realism" settings.

For example, if you play at 60% realism, multiply the respective figures by that number to arrive at settings for that level of play. That way you will earn your medals and renown appropriate to your level of play. No longer will it take forever to get your medals and promotions because you are playing at less than 100%.

Just my opinion, I haven't tried it out yet to see if it works, but I thought I would share the idea in case others are willing to try it. Please post here if it works for you.

Kaleun1961
09-14-2005, 06:53 PM
Upon rethinking what I put in my last post, I think it requires some adept mathematics in figuring out the relevant adjustments, i.e. do you add that factor or multiply it?

For example, in the basic file we are discussing under the area [RENOWN] we find this line:

[RENOWN]
RenownReachGridObjCompleted=500

If playing at 60%, you will receive a modified amount of renown at the end of your patrol, based upon the formula published in the SH3 Wiki. I'm thinking that you add 60% to this line, so that when the final calculation is made you end with the same amount of rewnown as if you were playing at 100%.

However, I don't know if my theory is correct, as math is not my strong suit. Any mathematicians want to have a go at this?

Kaleun1961
09-14-2005, 07:21 PM
Looking at that last post of mine I'm thinking it was not clear enough.

Here's what I'm thinking of trying: For reaching your patrol grid, you get 500 renown. If you play at 60%, to pick a random number, you don't get all 500, you get a percentage based on this formula from the SH3 community Manual: Hmmm. As of when I am writing this the SH3 Wiki is down. Never mind, I have it printed off. Here is the formula for calculating renown: base ship renown value * {[0.75 * realism %] + 0.25}. I am assuming that base renown also includes renown for patrol accomplishments. After having calculated all that the game rewards you with less renown than if you had played at 100%.

I'm trying to figure out how to modify the base values in the basic.cfg file so that the end calculation given by the game comes out the same as if you were playing at 100%. Yes, I know what some of you are thinking, just play at 100% to get it; I'm trying to figure this out for those players who will never get to 100%, but would still like to earn the renown as if you did. People would like to still be able to take screenshots for instance, but take a renown hit if they enable the option of external views.

If nobody out there can figure this out, then I'll have to try to get my Gr. 12 daughter who is a whiz at math to do if for me. But she's so overworked with homework for now I don't want to try to overburden her with something "so trivial."

Kaleun1961
09-14-2005, 08:20 PM
The above mentioned changes by van Jast work. I am using Real U-boat 1.43, and having made the changes van Jast suggests, I found that my crew recovered fatigue while running at or lower that 32x time compression.

vanjast
09-15-2005, 01:41 AM
Ok do it later as after 20:00 (CAT+2) I get a better connection. Our local telecom are @#$$ (Shhhhh!!) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Bullbyte
09-15-2005, 02:43 AM
Grrr.. Towards the end of my post earlier I half jokingly implied that there might be "other" little unwanted and hidden "Easter Eggs" lurking within RUb 1.43 and not documented.

This one was a true joy to discover just at the moment I needed it.:

"Use of the return key to fire the torpedo has been disabled"

Beary apparently feels you have to use your little mousy wousy pointer to click the big red button in order to make his world turn.

His program, no problem. Not posting it until I have a %#@%$# T3 Tanker lined up .. my problem.

You getting this all down Beary?

vanjast
09-15-2005, 02:53 AM
Bullbyte... the key is now Ctl+Return. Which is better as I've let off a lot of unintentional torpedos.
The IL2 flight sim uses Return to set time = 1x. So I've hit this button many a time in SH3.. you should hear me curse, maybe I should spell it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

joeap
09-15-2005, 03:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bullbyte:
Grrr.. Towards the end of my post earlier I half jokingly implied that there might be "other" little unwanted and hidden "Easter Eggs" lurking within RUb 1.43 and not documented.

This one was a true joy to discover just at the moment I needed it.:

"Use of the return key to fire the torpedo has been disabled"

Beary apparently feels you have to use your little mousy wousy pointer to click the big red button in order to make his world turn.

His program, no problem. Not posting it until I have a %#@%$# T3 Tanker lined up .. my problem.

You getting this all down Beary? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It is documented in the readme IIRC.

Quixotic_990
09-15-2005, 03:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bullbyte:
Grrr.. Towards the end of my post earlier I half jokingly implied that there might be "other" little unwanted and hidden "Easter Eggs" lurking within RUb 1.43 and not documented.

This one was a true joy to discover just at the moment I needed it.:

"Use of the return key to fire the torpedo has been disabled"

Beary apparently feels you have to use your little mousy wousy pointer to click the big red button in order to make his world turn.

His program, no problem. Not posting it until I have a %#@%$# T3 Tanker lined up .. my problem.

You getting this all down Beary? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

--

Sounds a bit harsh imho. I've just started on my first RUB career and while I'm not thrilled with the new 'combat fatigue' model, the overall experience of the mod is immersive and impressive for those who like a more realistic challenge. As for using the mouse to fire your torpedoes.. I don't mind this at all. Pre-RUB, I would mistakenly hit 'enter' and voila, a wasted torpedo. I think Beery and others deserve high praise for their efforts.

bweiss
09-16-2005, 12:25 PM
I think that well said Quixotic. I've been a RUB user for a while now, and never did like Berry's battlefatigue/endurance mod. Not that it doesn't have merit, but I'm one of those in the minority who actually likes micro-managing the crew and I like the Ubisoft fatigue values just fine. Now, I've just learned about the 88mm change in RUB, and I'm somewhat curious about the offered changes to alter it back to normal posted by van in Freddieszippo.zip file. I'll tinker with that later. But since I otherwise am admittedly a RUB fan I am concerned about replacing files in RUB which might have an effect on the game which I'm unaware of. Now that brings up Bullbytes sentiment. Which I have to agree with in principle, if not for a more diplomatic manner of discussing it. On the other hand, Beery has done a brilliant job of it with RUB, and his past experience in providing quality mods for RB3D remains to this day a hallmark of that sim.

So to look at it in balance. Berry did a lot of quality work for nothing more than the appreciation of those who would use his mod, and for that, whether all aspects are of particular interest to each and every one of us is not really important. If not for Berry, there wouldn't be any mod to second guess. Yes it'd be nice to have a detailed explanation of all aspects of the mod, but no one is forced to use it either. Whether Berry deserves the appreciation of all for his work is up to majority opinion, but he certainly has mine. As for the fatigue aspect of RUB, I just simply go into the Basic.cfg file and change the two sections which make up his fatigue changes, copying the data from the original "crew" and "COEF" sections of the Basic.cfg file and placing it in his Basic.cfg file so as not to alter anything else he entered. Simple enough. On the 88mm however, I'll seek some advice from his own self since I don't really know what all he changed in the Guns_Sub.sim file besides the 88mm reload value(s).

All in all, RUB is more to my liking than not but I suppose my point is that it is free. And free is always good. What's even better is that someone made it that way. Hat's off to Beery. ~Salute!

vanjast
09-16-2005, 02:36 PM
Yessir, the Rub Mod adds a nice new dimension to the game and it does involve a lot of work. I've been fiddling with the SH3 editor and you can change the whole campaign works here. to be historically correct you have to refer to the navy archives etc... many hours and hours and hours...

This job is tiresome and some slip-ups will occur, which we will discover. But I really don't want to wait soooo long.

Another game problem is with AI subs. They're as doff as can be. The AI-sub has no AI, which is a pity coz if they can give the surface ships AI why did they not give it to the subs
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

Bullbyte
09-16-2005, 10:20 PM
Just a quick note:

My issue with RUb is with the lack of proper documentation of just what installation is going to add .. and more importantly .. remove. Sorry I don't spam out lay down accolades like some do. If that makes me "harsh".. I am that then.

On a personal note. In a long carrer in management I have come across employee's that were truely gifted in creative, but required me to ride their **** in order to get them to document their work. Like taking a **** .. the work ain't finished until the paperwork is done.

vanjast
09-17-2005, 07:53 AM
A roundabout way of checking what's been modded is to look in the "IBackup" folder that JSME creates after doing each mod. Back these files up to another folder with each mod. to find out what been done go to these folders and compare to the in-game files. A slow, but usefull way of remodding.

I'm going to go through the whole lot when I have time and give a "report", that's if nobody else does it b4 me. It'll be a while, but time is no problem when you're in the Navy??
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif