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Inorganic9_2
12-16-2010, 05:13 PM
I've not seen this point here before, so do forgive me if it's already been raised.

anyway, before Cesare ends up investigating the earth's gravitational field off the top of the castle walls, you see that little memory corridor thing where he repeats his "no man can kill me!" line. Now, is it me, or do the two people in that little sequence not actually look like Ezio and Cesare? (going by memory here...) Also, it seems that the apple is there. Even weirder is that it seems ot be "Cesare" that's holding it.

Perhaps these are not Ezio and Cesare. My first thoughts were that it's Cane and Abel (as it kind of looks like one is killing the other over the apple). Doesn't 100% make sense when I think about it now, but it did when I saw it, so perhaps another playthrough is in order.

Either way, I thought it was interesting how that sequence was inserted into the cutscene.

(Edit: just seen the sticky "put all spoilers in the hints and tips section". If this thread applies, by all means, move it! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif )

Inorganic9_2
12-16-2010, 05:13 PM
I've not seen this point here before, so do forgive me if it's already been raised.

anyway, before Cesare ends up investigating the earth's gravitational field off the top of the castle walls, you see that little memory corridor thing where he repeats his "no man can kill me!" line. Now, is it me, or do the two people in that little sequence not actually look like Ezio and Cesare? (going by memory here...) Also, it seems that the apple is there. Even weirder is that it seems ot be "Cesare" that's holding it.

Perhaps these are not Ezio and Cesare. My first thoughts were that it's Cane and Abel (as it kind of looks like one is killing the other over the apple). Doesn't 100% make sense when I think about it now, but it did when I saw it, so perhaps another playthrough is in order.

Either way, I thought it was interesting how that sequence was inserted into the cutscene.

(Edit: just seen the sticky "put all spoilers in the hints and tips section". If this thread applies, by all means, move it! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif )

Rakudaton
12-17-2010, 08:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">before Cesare ends up investigating the earth's gravitational field </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

First off: lol. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

Second off: no. They look EXACTLY like Cesare and Ezio (I have replayed the final sequence 5 times because it's so awesome). The only difference is in Cesare's clothing, but that's because you rip off bits of his armour in the quick-time events earlier.

But! I did not notice the apple being there. Will have to play yet again to see if you're right. But I doubt this whole "Cain and Abel" thing. I mean, come one - why would a 15th century memory in Vianna spontaneously jump to an unknown location and unknown time period, likely many thousands of years and many hundreds of miles away? It makes no sense. Besides, you must remember: if you're going to put subtle little "hints" into a game, they're not going to be THAT subtle - otherwise no-one will notice/take notice of them. Come on, that's insane.

Inorganic9_2
12-17-2010, 08:39 AM
Ok maybe my memory is failing in terms of who they look like :P

However, I don't think the game itself jumped: it just appeared in the memory corridor. Maybe it is too subtle...but maybe ubi are subtle. Either way, the apple is indeed there. I think I'll play it again and see if I can get any more ideas (plus, it will help me to procrastinate from packing!)

LightRey
12-18-2010, 04:48 PM
Isn't the apple you saw just the first part after the (glitchy) memory skip to when Ezio places the apple in the vault?

Inorganic9_2
12-18-2010, 05:23 PM
I can't quite remember. I re-did The Fall memory, but the glitchy bit doesn't show up when you replay it.

SWJS
12-18-2010, 05:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I can't quite remember. I re-did The Fall memory, but the glitchy bit doesn't show up when you replay it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You need to do Memory 2 of Sequence 9.

Inorganic9_2
12-19-2010, 04:52 AM
Ah, that might explain it. Anyone know what Ezio meant when he said he was going to "plant a seed"?

LightRey
12-19-2010, 06:27 AM
Good point. I still have no good idea what he meant by that.

jimbo11235813
12-19-2010, 07:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Inorganic9_2:
Ah, that might explain it. Anyone know what Ezio meant when he said he was going to "plant a seed"? </div></BLOCKQUOTE> I think it was a metaphor about leaving the Apple for Desmond to later find. Ezio had about 3 or four years before he could fight Cesare, so what he did between saying "To plant a seed" and the fight. I know the Apple was planted after the fight in terms of the order we saw it in, but the phrase he said makes me suspicious of what the true order of events are, if the do actually differ.

Redfeather1975
12-19-2010, 07:10 AM
Maybe Ezio saw the way distant future in the apple, and then he went and hacked the Juno hologram's programming just to mess with Desmond.

LightRey
12-19-2010, 03:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Redfeather1975:
Maybe Ezio saw the way distant future in the apple, and then he went and hacked the Juno hologram's programming just to mess with Desmond. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Because he's an a-hole?

Inorganic9_2
12-21-2010, 03:48 PM
I just watched it again...Fair enough, Cesare looks like Cesare, but I swear the Ezio figure doesn't actually look like Ezio...I think I should watch again haha

TheSpectator
12-22-2010, 04:03 AM
I still can't figure out who juno feared. She said when she would feint left that he would strike right so on so forth.

Inorganic9_2
12-22-2010, 04:16 AM
She's talking about time.

"Here is a safe place to store words, objects...but not life. Almost did we have the means, but time...time erodes us. We can see past him, feint left when he strikes right, but his reach is so very long, his stamina infinite."


Something along those lines. I think the first part is almost word for word, but the second half is more of a gist

TheSpectator
01-03-2011, 08:09 PM
I think your onto something with the cain and abel thing. Check this video out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBhugK5zNVI at 14 seconds theres a man who isn't cesare or ezio and then the apple randomly appears. They're obviously trying to tell us something there.

YHHTQ
01-03-2011, 08:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Inorganic9_2:
I just watched it again...Fair enough, Cesare looks like Cesare, but I swear the Ezio figure doesn't actually look like Ezio...I think I should watch again haha </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Honestly, I actually think - after finishing the game 5(!) bloody times - that Ezio... looks like Cesare. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Avl521
01-03-2011, 09:14 PM
Cesare was such a cool character. With all his ego and power he was a much more interesting villain than Rodrigo ever was.

Now on to the planting a seed:
We can be sure it was not the most typical explanation of having a son since if he had done that we would have missed the last battle against Cesare.
What Ezio did between saying he was gonna plant a seed, and killing Cesare, is a complete mistery. We have some missing memories... Just like in ACII... anyone else think Ubisoft is rushing the games so that's why they have to cut things and rush the ending? Cause I've felt the endings were rushed both in ACII and in AC:B.

And with just a year for the next game... I believe ACIII will have the same issue.

Please Ubisoft, even if I die waiting for ACIII...
TAKE YOUR TIME TO MAKE IT THE GREATEST AND MOST COMPLETE GAME EVER!

Also I watched that sequence again... it seems Ezio places the apple in the vault AFTER he kills Cesare.
And when Cesare says "You cannot kill me. No man can murder me!" They show the Apple...
After watching the sequence again, I'm convinced there's more to it than meets the eye.

YHHTQ
01-03-2011, 09:18 PM
^ ^ ^ ^

The difference however, as others have noted way before me, is that Rebecca even took the time to say that those memories were corruped and there was this gap within the DNA.

In Brotherhood, there's no such thing... Honestly - and I hope I'm wrong - I only expect an explanation about that missing gap when Lost Legacy is released for the 3DS.

erudit0
01-03-2011, 09:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheSpectator:
I think your onto something with the cain and abel thing. Check this video out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBhugK5zNVI at 14 seconds theres a man who isn't cesare or ezio and then the apple randomly appears. They're obviously trying to tell us something there. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Funny as it may sound, at first when I played the game I thought one of the characters in that sequence you describe around 14 seconds, was Abraham Lincoln.

Avl521
01-03-2011, 09:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by YHHTQ:
^ ^ ^ ^

The difference however, as others have noted way before me, is that Rebecca even took the time to say that those memories were corruped and there was this gap within the DNA.

In Brotherhood, there's no such thing... Honestly - and I hope I'm wrong - I only expect an explanation about that missing gap when Lost Legacy is released for the 3DS. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Even so, it's not that I'm mad at the developers, I'm not one of those that said the game was incomplete or all those things that were said.
If I remember correctly it was stated that these sequences were cut from ACII because they decided they would rather work on the ending of the game.

The thing is that I have FELT that both games' endings were rushed... specially with such a mysterious end sequence with Cesare, the missing years in Ezio's life, and the fact we never see or hear the conversation or revlations Ezio must have learned with Juno. Something was bound to happen.

And I'd rather have these sort of things explained in the main games rather than in some sub-par DS game... (that comes from a guy that has played every Assassin's Creed game including the ones on DS and Bloodlines... oh the hipocrisy... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif)

YHHTQ
01-03-2011, 09:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Avl521:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by YHHTQ:
^ ^ ^ ^

The difference however, as others have noted way before me, is that Rebecca even took the time to say that those memories were corruped and there was this gap within the DNA.

In Brotherhood, there's no such thing... Honestly - and I hope I'm wrong - I only expect an explanation about that missing gap when Lost Legacy is released for the 3DS. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Even so, it's not that I'm mad at the developers, I'm not one of those that said the game was incomplete or all those things that were said.
If I remember correctly it was stated that these sequences were cut from ACII because they decided they would rather work on the ending of the game.

The thing is that I have FELT that both games' endings were rushed... specially with such a mysterious end sequence with Cesare, the missing years in Ezio's life, and the fact we never see or hear the conversation or revlations Ezio must have learned with Juno. Something was bound to happen.

And I'd rather have these sort of things explained in the main games rather than in some sub-par DS game... (that comes from a guy that has played every Assassin's Creed game including the ones on DS and Bloodlines... oh the hipocrisy... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would hardly consider Discovery a sub-par game... Still play it every so often on my DS, since it's a lot of fun to say the least.

Avl521
01-03-2011, 09:34 PM
Well, if I had the choice to play those sequences of memories in discovery on the DS or as part of the main game on PS3/PC/X360 I'd choose without a doubt the latter.

The games are fun? yes they are. Do they compare in quality and fun to the Main games? No, not at all.

That's all I'm saying, but lets get back on topic:
That last tidbit with Cesare HAS to have some sort of secret or revelation hidden in it! it was too strange not to mean something.

Has anyone noticed Ezio said:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> "Che nessuno recordi il tuo nome. (May no one remember your name.) Requiescat in pace. (Rest in peace.)" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

But in history, Cesare is the one present? poor Ezio... to choose those words and then in the future have them mean nothing since no one in the general public knows he even existed...

YHHTQ
01-04-2011, 12:55 AM
^ ^ ^ ^

Ezio doesn't need to be remembered, since to him, at least IMO, what really matters is that he was there, in that precise moment, to do something in which he believed in.

Which is why when Niccoló says that he'll write a book about him someday, the only thing that Ezio asks is that book itself is... short. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Avl521
01-04-2011, 01:08 AM
I know I know... but for all the great and epic things he did, he should be recognized... not like the templars that wrote history and command the world through Abstergo would care anyways...

Inorganic9_2
01-04-2011, 04:21 AM
Thanks for that video. If you watch carefully, when Cesare says "the throne was mine", it swaps so that Cesare is the one standing/crouching...well, at least it kind of looks like him. As he says "What do you know?", I don't think it looks like...anyone.

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/1952/brotherhoodsequence9.jpg
"The throne was mine" - doesn't look, facially, like Cesare, but, if you look closely, he is wearing Cesare's armour.

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/151/brotherhoodsequence9par.jpg
"What do you know?" - looks like this guy is in pain or something? Not sure what, but I'm not sure it's Ezio.

That and the fact that the Apple is there makes me think it's not actually Cesare and Ezio we're wtaching. The reason I thought Cain and Abel (fighting over the Apple) was because the fact of 'Cesare' lying on the ground reminded me of Adam for some reason.