PDA

View Full Version : Why do I fly so slow? :)



str_buck
05-28-2006, 05:54 AM
Okay, I might be a noob for asking this, but I can't figure out why the hell I can never catch anyone in the game. I'm pretty new to it, but it seems like no matter what plane I fly, and what plane the enemy has, he always outruns me. I watch the computer fly the same planes I have, and repeatedly be able to go faster than I can, even if we're all flying straight and level. It's like everyones able to get some ungodly burst of speed whenever they need it :P Am I missing something?

str_buck
05-28-2006, 05:54 AM
Okay, I might be a noob for asking this, but I can't figure out why the hell I can never catch anyone in the game. I'm pretty new to it, but it seems like no matter what plane I fly, and what plane the enemy has, he always outruns me. I watch the computer fly the same planes I have, and repeatedly be able to go faster than I can, even if we're all flying straight and level. It's like everyones able to get some ungodly burst of speed whenever they need it :P Am I missing something?

FluffyDucks
05-28-2006, 06:11 AM
The AI cheat... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

HotelBushranger
05-28-2006, 06:23 AM
Aye, that they do. Welcome to the forums mate! Hope you stay for the duration.

Don't worry bout the AI, they're sneaky little buggers http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif What version you flyin? Also, if you're interested in online play Hyperlobby is the way to go. Ask someone else for the link, cos I ain't got it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

str_buck
05-28-2006, 06:27 AM
I'm on 4.04 merged. And i've tried the hyperlobby a bit, but I think I should get a little better before I go back, I got owned pretty thuroughly :P But honestly it felt like the same thing was happening...Like I could fly straight and level forever and never catch someone, and some guy flying the same plane could gain on the target even at a steep climb, and he didn't even bleed off much if any speed. I haven't been concerning myself too much with the engine management stuff, but when I do make adjustments to mixtures and prop pitch I haven't really noticed anything but minor differences.

RxMan
05-28-2006, 06:51 AM
1: Be sure your throttle goes to 100 % , on the slider adjustments in the game, set the last 2 or even 3 to 100%, be sure there is no dead zone or filtering set.
2: When flying be sure you are trimmed out and not using stick pressure to fly straight and true.
3: There are superchargers with adjustments on some planes, use prn.
4: At low altitudes (below 500 M or so, some planes mixture can be upped to 120% for extra power, be sure to drop back down as you climb. You can hear the engine begin to struggle.
5: If you're up to it, (I'm not) you can adjust your engine for optimum rpm and manifold pressure.

str_buck
05-28-2006, 07:01 AM
Um, lol...I always have to apply some pressure to keep it straight. It always has a tendancy to float. I figured it was just a reflection of inaccuracies in the joystick.

MucusG
05-28-2006, 07:03 AM
It's been a whole new world for me since learning about trim. Speed, gunnery, landing, the whole lot.

Well worth the time to get used to using it.

str_buck
05-28-2006, 07:04 AM
Also, I dont know if it matters, or how...but the little sliders in the joystick setup in-game for roll, pitch and yaw all go up by 10 per each slider from 10-100

VW-IceFire
05-28-2006, 08:02 AM
Most new pilots tend to fly the same plane slower than an experience veteran online and the same applies to the AI who are infinately better at managing the aircraft than any human (flying it properly is another matter).

The reason for this is that they do not know how to properly trim their aircraft. I would suggest looking up the trim controls in the game and practice flying (no enemies) with the trim. Try and level the plane out using elevator trim and use the rudder trim (if the plane has it) to keep the plane from sideslipping.

Some planes are worse than others. Spitfires, Tempests, Mustangs, Yaks, and Corsairs I find require the most amount of trim. The FW190 and Bf109 only have elevator trm (the rudder is sort of an automatic thing at speed) and they don't need alot of it.

The other thing is smooth control. If you hammer away on the rudder or any control surface you end up slowing down. Alot of pilots online get behind an enemy plane and kick the rudder so they are shooting bullets all over the place. This may score them some lucky hits but it also slows them down.

In situations where the enemy is on your tail...again I see the same thing. Rapid stick movements....break turns...heavy rudder use...all of this serves to bleed your speed. Unless the enemy is right on your tail (I mean 100 meters or less) you usually have time to use some smooth control with a few rapid movements to sufficiently get out of the way.

Last thing that I see all the time. Pilots think that pointing the nose high makes them climb faster. While true if your zooming up with alot of speed...its not so true when your climbing normally. All planes have a best climb speed...planes like the FW190 have a higher best climb speed (350-400kph) while the Spitfire has a lower one (230-330kph). The FW190 pilot shouldn't try and bring the nose up too high because he's going to loose speed and reduce his climb rate over the long term.

In any plane...pilots who are in pursuit of a plane higher than them should concentrate on best climb speed rather than putting the crosshairs on the target the whole time.

Good luck!

-HH-Quazi
05-28-2006, 08:32 AM
Also, make use of prop pitch after properly trimming your ac.

horseback
05-28-2006, 11:41 AM
Learning proper trim and complex engine management will certainly help, but it will not change the basic problem you're having. Bottom line is that in the offline single-player campaigns & missions, the current patch's version of AI are pretty bad. They cheat to an obnoxious degree with the higher rated Veteran and Ace AI being the most unrealistic and blatant about it. IMHO, the 4.04m AI are almost as bad as the AI in Forgotten Battles 1.0, which I found unplayable for the first year it was out.

My advice to you is to quit wasting your time with them and copy your current Forgotten Battles or Pacific Fighters folder to another location, apply an earlier version patch and play your campaigns with the backpatched version.

I'm currently running my campaigns in 4.01m, for example-I like the more complex FMs, but the 4.02m did terrible things to a lot of US birds. I occasionally fly a solo in 4.04m, because I like the FMs and some of the additional aircraft are a hoot, but I think the current AI are execrable, and I'm waiting for a patch fix on it before I invest any time in playing the current version (or paying for the latest expansion, which did not address the AI issue).

cheers

horseback

Freelancer-1
05-28-2006, 11:55 AM
If you really want to mix it up...run away!

By that, I mean, if the AI enemy is out-running you, all you need do is disengage and 99% of the time they will turn back on you.

It gets pretty predictable after a while http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

But fun, anyway.

Cheers,

fly_zo
05-29-2006, 01:34 AM
Hi,

Neutral dreams "aircraft reference guide" has all the information you need for engine management.

You can get it here:

http://www.airwarfare.com/Sims/FB/files/essentials/aircraftguide.zip

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

strewth
05-29-2006, 02:43 AM
I know that this may sound silly but, in the interests of covering the basics since you haven't really let on how much experience you have and no offence meant:

Have you raised your landing gear and flaps? Also watch that your prop pitch is 100% until you get more familiar with things.

Seriously, sometimes we forget the most basic things.

DuxCorvan
05-29-2006, 02:45 AM
An AI pilot has certain limitations, and in order to make them more competent they have to introduce some cheats and relaxed FMs for them. The trick consists in do this in an way that looks not much noticeable for the player, so AI can 'fake' skill since it lacks it.

The problem appears when programmers step beyond the line -or even jump beyond the line- and overdo the AI cheating. Cheats start to be obvious and then even ridiculous. AI is much more challenging and difficult to hunt, yes, but now we are into the unrealistic realms of skill games and not simulators. This has ruined immersion for me.

Hoatee
05-29-2006, 04:45 AM
First paragraph of the last post is paranoia at its best (designer deliberately fooling yer indeed) - there's always a limit to simulating reality.

As for the original post and my own experience of the game (I'm a qmb junkie), it's not very often that everybody flies straight and level at the same time.

From a qmb perspective, there is more than enough variation to be had : all the different planes for starters (the fiat cr 42 can outfly an me 262 when both are flying straight and level - yeah, right ridiculous).

To cut a long story short, most of the time the ai does NOT act in a ridiculous or unreal fashion. Just be honest when you fly (for example, don't fire your cannon when your plane doesn't have any 'cos you know enemy ai reacts to your pressing the trigger).

Lav69
05-29-2006, 05:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hoatee:
First paragraph of the last post is paranoia at its best........Just be honest when you fly (for example, don't fire your cannon when your plane doesn't have any 'cos you know enemy ai reacts to your pressing the trigger). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You just contradicted yourself. The AI reacting to a trigger pull would be considered a cheat in most circles.

And new guy QMB stands for "quick mission builder". Also keep in mind that we are a niche community. Alot of the fliers online have been flying for years and are ridiculously good at ridiculous delfection shots and that type of flight. Especially in cockpit off servers. Try flying online, coop missions. Great way to learn without getting caught up in the Air Quake part of the online game.

str_buck
05-29-2006, 06:49 AM
Thx for all the input. To clarify, i'm not a complete noob, I mean I of course understand all the mechanics of flight/lift etc. But i've had more experience with modern flight sims and the such, where the most complex part of the plane are the weapons systems. When I say i'm having trouble tracking AI, I guess what I was referring to was the campaign missions. Take Finland for example, with the J8A is it? A slow prop bi-plane against WAY faster targets. I have a hard time catching anything but bombers, and my AI wingman can speed up at almost twice my speed when they need to to catch the planes that I can't catch even at 500 ft with 120% mix and full throttle, hell even throw in a diving angle :P I'll still never catch them unless they turn...they can even outrun me when they're climbing.

But yeah, maybe i'll give up on that and try to play online more. I found that for QMB (and thanks for the acronym, i didn't actually know what it meant :P) I have to give my AI enemy a plane with about 75-100 slower mph and about 50 lbs of torque less than my plane in order to have a chance of keeping up with it. To be honest i haven't messed with trim yet, but I mean everything else I FEEL like im doing right, i'm not oversteering and doing anything that should ever cause me to slow down. I'll look into learning trim and try to play more online. Thx for all the help.

DuxCorvan
05-29-2006, 08:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hoatee:
First paragraph of the last post is paranoia at its best. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Then most FB users must be paranoics. The true is that I've been flying sims since the times of LucasFilm and Sierra classics (Their Finest Hour, Secret Weapons, Aces over Europe...), and in those games with their cheesy graphics and UFO primitive FMs, you could perform the same (ej. accelerate) than your AI wingmen. Something that is not posible in FB.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">To cut a long story short, most of the time the ai does NOT act in a ridiculous or unreal fashion. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree. Most of the time, they don't. The problem is the few times they DO, and how TERRIBLY CONSPICUOUS the cheating is when they do it.

mynameisroland
05-29-2006, 01:12 PM
Maybe you shouldnt chase people unless you are in a faster plane? Even if you are in exactly the same type it is pointless to chase an enemy you should just climb or build a better position to re engage.

Another thing is only attack when you are above your enemy, this way when you dove you build up speed and are capable of catching aircraft that normally would be much quicker than you.

lowfighter
05-29-2006, 02:59 PM
trim is crucial
do a test, say fly a hurricane about 1000m altitude at about 90% throttle, if you can go level with 400 +-20 km/h you're fine.
Cheers!

elaintahra
05-31-2006, 06:39 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by RxMan:
2: When flying be sure you are trimmed out and not using stick pressure to fly straight and true.

Of course it doesnt affect the speed whether you keep the aircraft steady with the stick or the trim since in the end they both affect the same control surface.

elaintahra