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TX-EcoDragon
07-16-2007, 02:04 AM
This morning I was heading to CMA to fly with a friend, I called the person I was going to meet and heard some pretty aweful news that there was a crash in a Mustang there. CMA was closed.

Word is, subject to change, that it was a guy who had recently purchased a Mustang, installed dual controls, and had been flying it with an instructor pilot. This morning was his first solo flight in it. His instructor and another Mustang pilot were watching. He came in a little too hot, touched the mains a bit too hard and bounced, he then initiated a go-around, but presumably added too much power, too quickly. At about 50 feet of altitude this caused a torque roll to inverted and impact with the ground still in an inverted attitude. The plane stayed on the runway but the engine (still on fire) landed about 200 yards away.

What a sad day around here, and how terrible to be the instructor who was watching as this unfolded.


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y215/BrettVisionSLR/cmap51wreck.jpg

From the Ventura Star:

Man killed in air crash at Camarillo Airport
By Jenni Mintz (Contact)
Originally published 06:42 p.m., July 15, 2007
Updated 06:42 p.m., July 15, 2007

During his first solo flight, a 42-year-old Thousand Oaks resident was killed Sunday morning after crashing a privately-owned, Mustang Vintage P-51 WWII aircraft at the Camarillo Airport on the south end of the runway.

A call was made to the dispatcher about 8:15 a.m., and about 30 emergency personnel responded, including airport operations, the sheriff and coroner, said Mark Taillon, Ventura County Fire Department captain. The man was pronounced dead at 8:35 a.m.

Witnesses say the man appeared to be practicing taking off and landing, Taillon said. He took off from the runway headed west when the plane crashed into fields adjacent to the runway, according to the Ventura County Fire Department.

At the family's request, the victim's name will not be made public until Monday, because he had extensive family in the area that should be notified first. All that could be released about the man's identity Sunday is that he's a local resident, Taillon said.

" Staff writer Lisa McKinnon contributed to this report.

A video some of you have probably seen also shows a hot approach (but to a very narrow ruwnay that demands a wheel landing in order to see it), and a bounce, but the pilot today didn't try to salvage it, and just went for the go around. . .not a bad idea. . .provided you can safely do the go around.

Here's that video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WN7xdjpww58&NR=1

TX-EcoDragon
07-16-2007, 02:04 AM
This morning I was heading to CMA to fly with a friend, I called the person I was going to meet and heard some pretty aweful news that there was a crash in a Mustang there. CMA was closed.

Word is, subject to change, that it was a guy who had recently purchased a Mustang, installed dual controls, and had been flying it with an instructor pilot. This morning was his first solo flight in it. His instructor and another Mustang pilot were watching. He came in a little too hot, touched the mains a bit too hard and bounced, he then initiated a go-around, but presumably added too much power, too quickly. At about 50 feet of altitude this caused a torque roll to inverted and impact with the ground still in an inverted attitude. The plane stayed on the runway but the engine (still on fire) landed about 200 yards away.

What a sad day around here, and how terrible to be the instructor who was watching as this unfolded.


http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y215/BrettVisionSLR/cmap51wreck.jpg

From the Ventura Star:

Man killed in air crash at Camarillo Airport
By Jenni Mintz (Contact)
Originally published 06:42 p.m., July 15, 2007
Updated 06:42 p.m., July 15, 2007

During his first solo flight, a 42-year-old Thousand Oaks resident was killed Sunday morning after crashing a privately-owned, Mustang Vintage P-51 WWII aircraft at the Camarillo Airport on the south end of the runway.

A call was made to the dispatcher about 8:15 a.m., and about 30 emergency personnel responded, including airport operations, the sheriff and coroner, said Mark Taillon, Ventura County Fire Department captain. The man was pronounced dead at 8:35 a.m.

Witnesses say the man appeared to be practicing taking off and landing, Taillon said. He took off from the runway headed west when the plane crashed into fields adjacent to the runway, according to the Ventura County Fire Department.

At the family's request, the victim's name will not be made public until Monday, because he had extensive family in the area that should be notified first. All that could be released about the man's identity Sunday is that he's a local resident, Taillon said.

" Staff writer Lisa McKinnon contributed to this report.

A video some of you have probably seen also shows a hot approach (but to a very narrow ruwnay that demands a wheel landing in order to see it), and a bounce, but the pilot today didn't try to salvage it, and just went for the go around. . .not a bad idea. . .provided you can safely do the go around.

Here's that video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WN7xdjpww58&NR=1

DKoor
07-16-2007, 02:22 AM
Hm. Too bad......landings can be very tough for a rookie, unfortunately some of those end up with fatal consequences.
When I saw the bird I knew he didn't made it without further reading....pit area is devastated 100%.
Man killed, machine written off.
Bad day, no doubt about it.

Sergio_101
07-16-2007, 02:41 AM
devastated 100%.
Man killed, machine written off.
Bad day, no doubt about it.[/QUOTE]

Sadly the pilot is deceased.
But I differ in the opinion that the machine will be written off.
I have seen worse "restored".
It will fly again, be sure of it.

Sergio

KIMURA
07-16-2007, 04:28 AM
A written off or total loss depends on amount of loss in $ compared to the sum insured in $. Technically you can rebuild a Mustang out of a single screw.

JG52Uther
07-16-2007, 04:50 AM
For me its more an issue that a man died.Someones son/husband/father.
RIP http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

TheBandit_76
07-16-2007, 08:23 AM
If he was trying to takeoff/land on the same runway shown in the video, then it's no wonder. Much too narrow a strip, especially for someone doing their first solo in a warbird. Looks barely wide enough for the gear, and the last thing a noob needs to be distracted by is fighting to keep his wheels on the pavement.

No more vintage warbirds on this strip I would say.

RIP.

SeaFireLIV
07-16-2007, 08:27 AM
Sad news indeed. And the machine is never more important than the man. I would say this for any aircraft too.

T_O_A_D
07-16-2007, 08:33 AM
Terrible stuff, sounds about like my luck though. Have a life long dream come true and end abruptly before I get a chance to really enjoy it.

Sad indeed, very sad. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Vike
07-16-2007, 08:34 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

M_Gunz
07-16-2007, 09:29 AM
I wonder how many hours he had in tamer AC before going for the P-51?

slipBall
07-16-2007, 10:36 AM
Wow, that sucks....maybe the instructor should have been with him for 5 or 10 more landings. I would have hired him for that untill I felt comp

danjama
07-16-2007, 10:43 AM
The woman in that video is a dickhead.

Sad news about the pilot of the P51, i'm sure he could of had that landing if given one more go, just pure bad luck methinks. RIP to the man, he died doing something he clearly enjoyed.

TheGozr
07-16-2007, 12:27 PM
very sad http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

SithSpeeder
07-16-2007, 06:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">RIP to the man, he died doing something he clearly enjoyed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Definitely sad in the sense of loss of life and its affect on his loved ones, but in an odd sense, going out while doing something you've dreamed about ain't too bad. He was probably on cloud 9 the moment before it flipped.

S!

* _54th_Speeder *

TX-EcoDragon
07-16-2007, 09:11 PM
The video is of an unrelated incident, and at a different airport. . .and yes, it's quite narrow. Narrow enough that you can't really see it at all from the P-51 unless you wheel land. CMA has a much larger runway. The incident yesterday seems to have had more to do with the application of too much power when at low speed and high angle of attack.

In any case, sad indeed.

Zeus-cat
07-16-2007, 09:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The woman in that video is a dickhead. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I disagree; she isn't nearly intelligent enough. She can only dream of being a dickhead.

The pilot can't be much better. Trying to land a high-performance aircraft on that piece of **** runway indicates the pilot has no idea what he is doing. He is darn lucky he didn't flip the plane onto its back.

TheBandit_76
07-16-2007, 11:05 PM
Another puzzle piece, but only hearsay.

I was at the hangar of a P51 owner/pilot today and spoke with his ground crew. The incident came up. The deceased pilot was supposedly encouraged to get some additional schooling on the '51 from the folks at Stallion51 in Florida.

He declined.

Again hearsay, but the Mustang community is fairly tight-knit.

LEXX_Luthor
07-17-2007, 01:35 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

p-11.cAce
07-17-2007, 06:21 AM
Transitions in flight training are difficult judgment calls for both student and instructor. Having been both all I can say is its a hard call to make - at some point you have to go out there alone and do it, and the instructor needs to let you. The pilot could have greased in many landings just fine with the confidence (and weight) of the instructor on board. Even in an a/c the size of a mustang kicking 200 pounds out will affect the way it handles, especially at low speed. Tragic accident for everyone involved, hopefully some good information regarding mustang type training can be learned from this.

Bo_Nidle
07-17-2007, 06:41 AM
Very sad.

I remember reading an article sometime ago which said that Mustang owners are more likely to die in their aircraft than by any other cause.

My thoughts go out to the gentleman's family.

mortoma
07-17-2007, 06:58 AM
Landing planes like that is a whole different ball of wax than landing GA planes. The much higher torque and power being the big part of that. If I were to start flying again ( if I could afford it ) I would transition back very slowly. And if I were to ever try and progress as far as a P-51, I'd do so very, very slowly. I think the step up to more complex and powerful aircraft should be slow and gradual. I personally would not consider myself ready to fly something like that until I had at least 10,000 hours and much or that twin and turbine time. Even a small Cessna can kill you on takeoff or landing, happens all the time.

My closest call was one time when I was doing my runup and checklist for a rented C-172 Skyhawk II. I somehow was in a bit of a hurry and probably a little nervous still because I had only been flying a year, did not fly very often and it had been a couple months since my last flight. Well somehow I had failed to check the trim wheel setting. Big mistake because someone had left it trimmed extremely ( probably maximum ) up when they landed from it's previous flight. Upon rotation I everything was ok but quickly the plane nosed up
and the stall horn sounded strongly. I had to really push forward on the yoke with a lot of pressure to recover my airspeed. But all it would have taken was a few more seconds, maybe only two and I would have been in trouble, possibly ending up kicking the big bucket. Airplanes demand utmost attention, I learned a lot that day. I think I went over checklists three times after that!!!

Krt_Bong
07-17-2007, 09:45 AM
Guys who have the money to buy restored fighter planes are often middle age successful types who always dreamed of owning a P-51 or whatever but really are not nearly prepared as the young 19-20 year olds who were preparing to go to war learning first to fly a Stearman then a T-6 and then maybe a P-40 or 51. Too often these guys get way over their heads real quick because of their lack of training in a military disipline that tells them what to do without having to think about it, it's a shame but it isn't the first time. I've seen many pictures of wrecked warplanes in private paint that are because the owners were not the wartime alert young guys with every page of the flight manual burned in their brain. Sad to see another person kill themselves ..and destroy a piece of history because they dream of being a Fighter pilot, RIP

K_Freddie
07-17-2007, 09:54 AM
I can't help thinking that if the guy had spent some time flying Oleg's P51, this tragedy might have been avoided.

Sorry to hear this... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

p-11.cAce
07-17-2007, 11:01 AM
When I was earning my PPL there was a doctor on our field who owned a L-39. He never got into any trouble (that we knew of) but my instructor told me to stay away from the pattern anytime he was flying because he was "about 3 miles behind that plane" and had no real training to prepare for flying it. I thought he was a decent pilot but in short order he had gone from c-152, to a Bonanza, Baron, and Citation II. He was legal, but its hard to know how much depth and experience he had gained. Flying is hard enough, moving to complications and speed to quickly can be very dangerous.

TheBandit_76
07-17-2007, 11:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by K_Freddie:
I can't help thinking that if the guy had spent some time flying Oleg's P51, this tragedy might have been avoided.

Sorry to hear this... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What a moronic post.

I nominate you for stupid post of the year.