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View Full Version : A guide to live and fight another day in the Me 262.



darkhorizon11
02-12-2005, 12:46 PM
PART 1

Besides the Allied planes and the Yak this one is no doubt my favorite airplanes in the game and one of my all time favs.

Thought I would share some thoughts on her from what I've read and what I've found while flying it, not just in FB, but in Janes WWII, Janes AS, and CFS3.

Its quite the plane, faster than its prop contemporaries, but I would trade its speed advantage for some acceleration any day (if that were possible). The highest top speed in the world won't help if you have a Mustang or T-Bolt real close on your six.

Point I Keep your speed up.

My rule of thumb is if your at an altitude below about 2500m in the combat zone never slow down below 500kph.

Any decent Mustang pilot will shoot you down three times over when your within range before you pull accelerate away. While low speed accelleration is garbage due to the inferiority of the engines high speed and dive accel. aren't so bad. As long as your above 500 your performance is strong and you can pretty much outfly anything in the air (except other jets).

Above 2500m you can drop that safety speed to about 450 maybe 400kph but be careful. Don't be too generous. Now you have some room to dive away if your compromised although beware that this is also the zone where the legendary Mustang becomes everything and more us Americans brag it is. Watch out for it, but remember your still faster.

Point II Turn-Fighting

That title is an oxymoron because in the 262 you can't. If your flying against an AI 262 the computer will try to convince you that its possible when you engage him but really we all know this is a joke. With rate of turn and roll paling in comparison to the props in the Schwalbe, I highly ill-advise this. Especially in jerky snap maneuvers. FB fails to models stalls and spins right making such maneuvers nearly impossible in this game but it doesn't matter because even if said things were modeled correctly you would find that the aircraft bleeds Energy at a high rate of speed due to its weight and rearward mid fuselage CG. Also the laminar flow wings don't like sudden violent changes in airflow.

So what do you do when your engaged on the deck in a furball with multiple bandits right up your tail pipe and lead flying at you?

Well this a Schwalbe drivers worst nightmare and there is no surefire way to survive. Anyone who flew it in real life will agree that the odds of survival drastically decrease in a slow speed low alt. situation at the back end of the power curve. This is true for all a/c and even worse for jets.

But your best bet of living to tell your friends you ask?

First, assuming you haven't been already and have a change to get away bank about 25-30 left and right turning back and forth with full throttle in (don't jerk young Padawan, smoooooth control inputs), remember what I said about bleeding E. By weaving your a harder target to hit and increasing distance between you and the Grim Reaper. Once your a decent ways away (but still in range of the .50 cals probably) bank either left or right about 30 degrees and start to make a 180 degree turn extending away. When you reach the 45 degree point (or a quarter way through the turn) slowly pull back on the yoke to about a 15-20 degree pitch up attitude while still turning. By this point the engine is probably overheating but you can do this a little bit w/o it catching on fire, remember going a little hard on the 12 hr RTO steel Jumo 004 engine is a lot lesser of an evil than hot chunks lead flying at 300 fps. When you reach the 180 degree point in the turn (halfway) slowly take out the bank you put in and pitch up a little more. Okay at this point your going back to wings level should have the left the prop fighters in their tracks, and you can satisfyingly wag your wings. This is what I love about the 262, watching props frustratingly try to keep up. If somehow their still on your tail (maybe they were diving on you to begin with) continue to pull the nose up (slowly) to about 30 degrees and finish the 180 degree turn. Keep going up until you reach stall speed and you have a huge alt. advantage even though your slow, bring the power back to about 80% to relieve your cooking engine and nose down about 15 degrees. Or if not you should have some altitude to dive away and try it all over again.

The maneuver I just described is called the Chandelle, its still used today in training commercial pilots, I'm not sure who invented it but it works. Remember that all the control inputs must be smooth and accurate, don't just jerk the plane around or you'll waste the energy just as fast as your building it. It does take practice.

Point III Bombers

Okay this section is shorter although it can be extremely complex. The only heavy bombers in the game are American and Russian anyway. I'm going to assume your attacking a formation of B-17s since thats the bomber the 262 ran into most and the few other bombers in the game are very similiar in armament. The best way to attack is head on, then dive away or, get about 1000 meters above the enemy and then come down near vertical. Make sure that if you attack head-on you dive away and not climb, this way your accelerating away even faster from their gun range. The top turret on a B17 has trouble tracking you from this position. The real problem with attacking the bombers is basically that they don't fly alone but in formations of 20 or 30 and well, if each bombers has 8 machine guns on it, you do the math as to how many bullets are flying at you each second. So, first keep your speed up again, to at least 600kph, 650 if your coming at them from the side or rear quadrant. This will keep you in range just long enough to get a good shot off and get you out quick. Resist the urge to get to close, once the bomber starts to get into clear view (less pixelation and you can clearly see the tail and gun stations) pull away. Resist the urge to just line up close behind him and blow him to H E double hockey sticks. Within about 200 feet of a heavy bomber with less than 300kph closing speed is suicide.

darkhorizon11
02-12-2005, 12:46 PM
PART 1

Besides the Allied planes and the Yak this one is no doubt my favorite airplanes in the game and one of my all time favs.

Thought I would share some thoughts on her from what I've read and what I've found while flying it, not just in FB, but in Janes WWII, Janes AS, and CFS3.

Its quite the plane, faster than its prop contemporaries, but I would trade its speed advantage for some acceleration any day (if that were possible). The highest top speed in the world won't help if you have a Mustang or T-Bolt real close on your six.

Point I Keep your speed up.

My rule of thumb is if your at an altitude below about 2500m in the combat zone never slow down below 500kph.

Any decent Mustang pilot will shoot you down three times over when your within range before you pull accelerate away. While low speed accelleration is garbage due to the inferiority of the engines high speed and dive accel. aren't so bad. As long as your above 500 your performance is strong and you can pretty much outfly anything in the air (except other jets).

Above 2500m you can drop that safety speed to about 450 maybe 400kph but be careful. Don't be too generous. Now you have some room to dive away if your compromised although beware that this is also the zone where the legendary Mustang becomes everything and more us Americans brag it is. Watch out for it, but remember your still faster.

Point II Turn-Fighting

That title is an oxymoron because in the 262 you can't. If your flying against an AI 262 the computer will try to convince you that its possible when you engage him but really we all know this is a joke. With rate of turn and roll paling in comparison to the props in the Schwalbe, I highly ill-advise this. Especially in jerky snap maneuvers. FB fails to models stalls and spins right making such maneuvers nearly impossible in this game but it doesn't matter because even if said things were modeled correctly you would find that the aircraft bleeds Energy at a high rate of speed due to its weight and rearward mid fuselage CG. Also the laminar flow wings don't like sudden violent changes in airflow.

So what do you do when your engaged on the deck in a furball with multiple bandits right up your tail pipe and lead flying at you?

Well this a Schwalbe drivers worst nightmare and there is no surefire way to survive. Anyone who flew it in real life will agree that the odds of survival drastically decrease in a slow speed low alt. situation at the back end of the power curve. This is true for all a/c and even worse for jets.

But your best bet of living to tell your friends you ask?

First, assuming you haven't been already and have a change to get away bank about 25-30 left and right turning back and forth with full throttle in (don't jerk young Padawan, smoooooth control inputs), remember what I said about bleeding E. By weaving your a harder target to hit and increasing distance between you and the Grim Reaper. Once your a decent ways away (but still in range of the .50 cals probably) bank either left or right about 30 degrees and start to make a 180 degree turn extending away. When you reach the 45 degree point (or a quarter way through the turn) slowly pull back on the yoke to about a 15-20 degree pitch up attitude while still turning. By this point the engine is probably overheating but you can do this a little bit w/o it catching on fire, remember going a little hard on the 12 hr RTO steel Jumo 004 engine is a lot lesser of an evil than hot chunks lead flying at 300 fps. When you reach the 180 degree point in the turn (halfway) slowly take out the bank you put in and pitch up a little more. Okay at this point your going back to wings level should have the left the prop fighters in their tracks, and you can satisfyingly wag your wings. This is what I love about the 262, watching props frustratingly try to keep up. If somehow their still on your tail (maybe they were diving on you to begin with) continue to pull the nose up (slowly) to about 30 degrees and finish the 180 degree turn. Keep going up until you reach stall speed and you have a huge alt. advantage even though your slow, bring the power back to about 80% to relieve your cooking engine and nose down about 15 degrees. Or if not you should have some altitude to dive away and try it all over again.

The maneuver I just described is called the Chandelle, its still used today in training commercial pilots, I'm not sure who invented it but it works. Remember that all the control inputs must be smooth and accurate, don't just jerk the plane around or you'll waste the energy just as fast as your building it. It does take practice.

Point III Bombers

Okay this section is shorter although it can be extremely complex. The only heavy bombers in the game are American and Russian anyway. I'm going to assume your attacking a formation of B-17s since thats the bomber the 262 ran into most and the few other bombers in the game are very similiar in armament. The best way to attack is head on, then dive away or, get about 1000 meters above the enemy and then come down near vertical. Make sure that if you attack head-on you dive away and not climb, this way your accelerating away even faster from their gun range. The top turret on a B17 has trouble tracking you from this position. The real problem with attacking the bombers is basically that they don't fly alone but in formations of 20 or 30 and well, if each bombers has 8 machine guns on it, you do the math as to how many bullets are flying at you each second. So, first keep your speed up again, to at least 600kph, 650 if your coming at them from the side or rear quadrant. This will keep you in range just long enough to get a good shot off and get you out quick. Resist the urge to get to close, once the bomber starts to get into clear view (less pixelation and you can clearly see the tail and gun stations) pull away. Resist the urge to just line up close behind him and blow him to H E double hockey sticks. Within about 200 feet of a heavy bomber with less than 300kph closing speed is suicide.

darkhorizon11
02-12-2005, 01:29 PM
PART TWO Bombers cont'd...

Unless your head on (where it doesn't matter), never attack the lead bomber first. Go after the last plane on the outer-most formation and work your way in. This exposes you to the least about defensive fire period. Swoop and dive down taking quick shots. Keep your safe distances and get out of enemy range before you climb back at up altitude and dive again. Remember the whole point the cannon the 262 carries is NOT to get to close. While bullets rely on sheer force of impact to do damage cannons explode on impact. Take advantage of this.

Point III Ground attack

On to the ground attack role. Performance wise the Messerschmitt is superb for the ground attack role but in the real world this was far from true. Its high speed and cannons make it good for shredding unprotected trucks and personal, but thats about it. The durability and dependability of the engines and relatively weak armor make mud moving extremely dangerous. I advise you not to get low and attack ground units in the face of more than one or two light AA batteries. Remember one shot of any caliber to your engie and your a molotov cocktail.

The A-2 variant carries bombs. This configuration isn't much better. It leaves a heavy pitch down moment (nose heavy) and severly hinders the critical performance that the plane relies on. I don't have much experience in this plane in the sim so correct me if I'm wrong but theres no extra armor for pilot or plane in the A-2 over the A-1. Lack of bombsight makes the only real accurate option dive bombing. Dive bombing is not only tricky for somebody who normally flies fighters like me but also dangerous because your ussually down low even after full recovery.

The only positive features for ground attack is the relatively good vis off the nose and the two engine planform. Willy Messerschmitt knew that a reliable jet engine was a long ways away. He gave his brainchild, two for relability. I'm sure he also considered the fact that a one engine jet could be forced to crash land behind enemy lines which was one of the RLM's biggest fears for the 262.

Point IV The true role of the 262

The history channel would have you believe that the 262 was some ungodly fighter jet could have saved Germany if Hitler had not pushed for it to be a bomber. Many cocky 190 and 109 drivers who stepped up to the 262 in 44 and 45 met their fate because they were injected with this same blind propaganda. There is another thread around debating whether or not the 262 could have saved Germany if introduced earlier. I believe this is was not possible but thats just my opinion. Please don't debate me about this here, as this is just a technical thread. Save the historical flaming for the other one please not here.

At its introduction Germany industry was grinding to a halt under the strategic bombing of the USAAF and RAF. The 262 was designed to stem this tide and such is its place in history. A valient but fruitless attempt to save a doomed and twisted regime.

Here's the confusing part. I've seen the Swallow designated as a fighter, a bomber, fighter/bomber, and heavy fighter. It reality if you go by the cold war definition, it was an Interceptor. Although, similiar to a fighter, there are some stark differences. An interceptor, like the 262 was designed to be fast and powerful. Take off and climb to meet the enemy in the shortest amount of time possible. Then suddenly appear on your six out of nowhere to deliver a blistering amount of fire power in just a few seconds, then be gone in a flash.


Some as why is it still not fighter, its got some maneuverablility? The Bf-110 was a decent two engined heavy fighter for the early war period.

Well, by that comparison it could be, but again you must take into consideration its main role. The Mustangs, Lightenings, Spits, and T-Bolts it often fell prey to weren't much of a threat to Germany. While they took part in many annoying ground strafing missions, their real part was protecting bombers and making raids deep into Germany with minimal causulties realistic. They protected the bombers from fighters making flak the only real danger (which it still was to the bitter end). Just keeping the 109s and 190s off the B-17s was all they had to do. Thats where the 262 comes in. Powerful enough to take down a B-17 but fast enough to outfly an escort (although Jug does have shot at catching me in my 262 in a dive if it gets the jump). Call it what you want, it was never designed to be an equal to the Mustang or Spit.

So thats it, thats my two cents sorry its so long but I've wanted to share that information with everyone on how to bring the Mustang guys down to earth, though I am one of those Mustang guys also. Either way, practice at my tips and remember to be patient. Even if you do all those things you probably will still get downed every now and then. Nothing is sure fire, just have it and practice. See you guys online! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

darkhorizon11
02-12-2005, 03:59 PM
Come on somebody must have something to add to this! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Zatorski
02-12-2005, 09:42 PM
Thank You Darkhorizon for your thoughts on the 262.
I would like to make a request for some pointers in how to land the bloody thing!!
I either come in way too fast, or more commonly, lawndart just in front of the runway!!

wayno7777
02-12-2005, 09:57 PM
A really good feel for the 262, you explained very well. Thanks! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Jagdklinger
02-13-2005, 05:46 AM
I'd like to put in a rap for the 262s toughness.
As follows:

Whilst engaging some P51s, I shot one down, and, because I'm very unsporting http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif , swooped around to shoot at the parachute.
One 30mm hit and he fell with a wailing scream.
Whilst I was gloating, another P51 snuck up and blew away most of my wing. Spiralling to the ground, the Gs left me unable to eject (justice); but upon hitting the ground nose-on. I bounced, and as I was still hammering Ctrl-E in panic, was flung high enough to safely 'eject' before the plane crashed a 2nd time, this time exploding in a fireball. I walked away from it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif
True story.

darkhorizon11
02-13-2005, 08:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zatorski:
Thank You Darkhorizon for your thoughts on the 262.
I would like to make a request for some pointers in how to land the bloody thing!!
I either come in way too fast, or more commonly, lawndart just in front of the runway!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lawndarts huh? I've had some good drunken memories with them things.

As for yer landing problem... you should be on final approach at about 185kph. You approach angle should be about 3 degrees. Remember it actually it takes about more power to fly slower because your on the backside of the power curve. I can't remember just what the percentage of power is ussually so you'll just have to feel it out. Once you get a few meters about the ground gently pull back (not to hard) so you can't see the runway. Use your perpherals on the cockpit sides to stay on the ruway.

Viel Gluck!