PDA

View Full Version : What affects controls authority?



KraljMatjaz
01-31-2006, 05:33 AM
I mean, from physical point of view: what makes P51 or Fw elevator at 700kph so light and 109 or P38 so heavy? I am quite sure there weren't some kind of servo-mechanisms involved, so where is the catch? Why compressibility occures at some planes and it doesn't at others?

KraljMatjaz
01-31-2006, 05:33 AM
I mean, from physical point of view: what makes P51 or Fw elevator at 700kph so light and 109 or P38 so heavy? I am quite sure there weren't some kind of servo-mechanisms involved, so where is the catch? Why compressibility occures at some planes and it doesn't at others?

Breeze147
01-31-2006, 06:01 AM
Different types of grease on the bearings.

p-11.cAce
01-31-2006, 06:50 AM
airspeed, control surface area, control surface balance, control surface counter-balance, length of control horn attachment, length of control bellcranks, length of control stick, size of control cable pulleys, number of turns in control cables, tension of control cables, length of control cables, trim tab size, trim tab angle, tension of trim tab cable, length of trim tab cable, size of trim tab pulleys, type of bearings used, type of bushings used, size of control pushrods, length of control pushrods, aerodynamic balance tabs, aerodynamic balance tab size, aircraft weight, aircraft angle of incidence, and any number of possible mtx issues. I think that mostly covers it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Breeze147
01-31-2006, 08:07 AM
And grease. You need a good grease.

vanjast
01-31-2006, 12:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KraljMatjaz:
Why compressibility occures at some planes and it doesn't at others? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compressibility)
Compressibility is an important notion in aerodynamics. At low speeds, the compressibility of air is not important for aircraft design, but as the airflow nears and exceeds the speed of sound, a host of new aerodynamic effects become important in the design of aircraft. These effects, often several of them at a time, made it very difficult for World War II era aircraft to reach speeds much beyond 500mph.

Some of the minor effects include changes to the airflow that lead to problems in control. For instance, the P-38 Lightning had a particular problem in high speed dives that led to a nose-heavy condition. Pilots would enter dives, and then find that they could no longer control the plane, which continued to nose over until it crashed. Adding a "dive flap" beneath the wing to upset the airflow cured the problem.

A similar problem effected some models of the Supermarine Spitfire. At high speeds the ailerons could apply more torque than the Spitfire's thin wings could handle, and the entire wing would twist in the opposite direction. This meant that the plane would roll in the direction opposite to what the pilot expected, and led to a number of accidents. This wasn't noticed until later model Spitfires like the Mk.IX started to appear, because earlier models weren't fast enough. This was solved by adding considerable strength to the wings, and was wholly cured when the Mk.XIV was introduced.

The Messerschmitt Bf 109 and Mitsubishi Zero had the exact opposite problem, the controls were too weak. At higher speeds the pilot simply couldn't move the controls because there was too much airflow over the control surfaces. The planes would become difficult to manoeuvre, and at high enough speeds even less manoeuvrable aircraft could out-turn them.

Finally, another common problem that fits into this category is flutter. At some speeds the airflow over the control surfaces will become turbulent, and the controls will start to flutter. If the speed of the fluttering is close to a harmonic of the control's movement, the resonance could break the control off completely. This was a serious problem on the Zero. When they first encountered problems with the poor control at high speed they addressed it with a new style of control surface with more power. However this introduced a new resonant mode, and a number of planes disappeared before this was discovered.

All of the items above are often talked about when the term "compressibility" is used, but in a manner of speaking, they are all incorrectly used. From a strictly aerodynamic point of view, the term should refer only to those effects arising as a side effect of the changes in airflow from an incompressible fluid (similar in effect to water) to compressible fluid (acting as a gas) as you approach the speed of sound. There are two effects in particular, wave drag and critical mach.

Wave drag is a sudden rise in drag on the aircraft, caused by air building up in front of it. At lower speeds this air has time to "get out of the way", guided by the air in front of it that is in contact with the aircraft. But at the speed of sound this can no longer happen. Air which was previously following the streamline around the aircraft now hits it directly. The amount of power needed to overcome this effect is considerable.

At the speed of sound the way that lift is generated changes dramatically, from being dominated by Bernoulli's principle to forces generated by shock waves. Since the air on the top of the wing is travelling faster than on the bottom, due to Bernoulli effect, at speeds close to the speed of sound the air on the top of the wing will be accelerated to supersonic. When this happens the distribution of lift changes dramatically, typically causing a powerful nose-down trim. Since the aircraft normally approached these speeds only in a dive, pilots would report the aircraft attempting to nose over into the ground.

All of these effects have adverse effects on the control or performance of the plane. For this reason it's common to see references to aircraft that suffer from compressibility. The P-38 and Zero are particularly common examples, although in fact they are both bad ones.

GreyBeast
01-31-2006, 03:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Breeze147:
And grease. You need a good grease. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Try vaseline, it washes off more easily. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

horseback
01-31-2006, 05:17 PM
For higher altitudes, there are 'personal lubricants' that heat up...

cheers

horseback