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F16_Fatboy
10-08-2004, 03:40 AM
I just noticed that the www.IL2Sturmovik.com (http://www.IL2Sturmovik.com) is gone and replaced with www.pacific-fighters.com! (http://www.pacific-fighters.com!)
What´s the point? Is the general idea to let the Sturomoviks and the eastfront once again disappear into the fog of "Forgotten Battles"?
Will IL2 get any support in the future?

FLSTF

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
10-08-2004, 04:14 AM
I hardly think so. I think its just that they have a new product to plug and that is all there is to it.
You will find plenty of links to Il2 and references to the eastern front in the forum and the web site. No political agenda just plain buisness sense.

WUAF_Badsight
10-08-2004, 04:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by F16_Fatboy:
What´s the point? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://www.epfl.net/events/images/money.jpg

Hunter82
10-08-2004, 04:39 AM
Seperate support I would think no. Support with fixes through PF yes since it will work AEP

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by F16_Fatboy:
I just noticed that the http://www.IL2Sturmovik.com is gone and replaced with http://www.pacific-fighters.com!
What´s the point? Is the general idea to let the Sturomoviks and the eastfront once again disappear into the fog of "Forgotten Battles"?
Will IL2 get any support in the future?

FLSTF <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

RedDeth
10-08-2004, 04:44 AM
the point is IL2 is old and not exciting.

do you go and visit EAW or janes ww2fighter or SDOE or CFS1 websites daily anymore? NO.

dont listen to badsight...its not about money its about reality.

in fact imagine the original IL-2 game without any patches or extra planes. this game has to grow and evolve or it will die. its not like janes ww2 fighters that lasted 4 years without a new plane and was still fun and exciting.

il2 needs change or it will die because its not all that and a bag of chips.eastern front never was the end all end of flight sim gaming. thats why it always needed daily patches and new planes. boredom beater. the game is dead.

if you havent noticed the only thing keeping IL-2 going has been forgotten battles western front.

F19_Orheim
10-08-2004, 05:02 AM
"...battles western front."

Hmm no...http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Bearcat99
10-08-2004, 05:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RedDeth:
the point is IL2 is old and not exciting.

do you go and visit EAW or janes ww2fighter or SDOE or CFS1 websites daily anymore? NO.

dont listen to badsight...its not about money its about reality.

in fact imagine the original IL-2 game without any patches or extra planes. this game has to grow and evolve or it will die. its not like janes ww2 fighters that lasted 4 years without a new plane and was still fun and exciting.

il2 needs change or it will die because its not all that and a bag of chips.eastern front never was the end all end of flight sim gaming. thats why it always needed daily patches and new planes. boredom beater. the game is dead.

if you havent noticed the only thing keeping IL-2 going has been forgotten battles western front. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I totaolly disagree with you. The only reason this sim "needs" constant patching is because it's developer has the savvy to try to keep making a good thing better... and this community has become spoiled rotten.. expecting these things. People flew CFS3 heavy... until recently... some folks still fly Janes..... if no patches had come out for IL2 then people would still be flying it. The gfact that it gets patched regularly only makes it more appealling. To say that the only thing keeping the franchise afloat is FB is ludicrous. While true ..... FB has indeed elevated the franchise and PF will take it even further..... before all this.. when IL2 was just plain old IL2 there was a pretty vibrant community. The fact that it was largely European and die hard simmers doesnt mean that it was any less vibrant. I dont recall any daily patches either. This game is popular now and it was then because it is and was good. A lot of Americans slept on it because at the time either they didnt have the PC to run it or they were just being ethnocentrically narrowminded (or both like me...)and because it didnt have a P-51 or a Jug in it... it was full of planes no one had ever heard of (In America), fighting in places no one had ever heard of (except Berlin etc of course), made by a developer no one had ever heard of. Thats the real truth. FB just opened the door to one of the largest consumer markets in the world which was just plain good business if you ask me... just like the patches. I cant speak for anyone else but the fact that the developer supports this sim still is a major draw for me. I have a few simms on my shelf that bore the h@ll out of me and have not been played in years because THEY were dead and thier developers did nothing to keep them fresh and new.

IL2 is the past. FB/PF is the present and future... that is why they are goig in that direction and that is why 1C will be a player in the flight sim genre for some time. To keep on supporting IL2 to any great extent... what with BoB now getting ready to go into full swing is just not happening. Especially since all the planes and maps from IL2 are in FB.

Capt_Haddock
10-08-2004, 05:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RedDeth:
if you havent noticed the only thing keeping IL-2 going has been forgotten battles western front. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry but I strongly disagree.
Some of the planes in AEP were purely Eastern Front and "Forgotten Battles" related. Ever wondered why you are flying a J8A, not a Gladiator MkII? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://www.haddock.f2s.com/sig/F19bannerh.jpg
http://www.haddock.f2s.com/sig/F19banner.jpg
http://www.haddock.f2s.com/sig/efas.jpg

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
10-08-2004, 05:35 AM
Yes lets burn the Heratic !!

Just let me get my pitchfork

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

Jagdgeschwader2
10-08-2004, 05:45 AM
Lets hope we keep getting the patches.
I'm more than happy with what we have.
Thanks Oleg and team.


**********************************************
Oleg,

Don't you think that no one of competitors had/have the same amout of aircraft as well as never modelled the close to real physics of aircraft landing, or amount of maps - theaters?
So I think complines about what we have and what need to be are not valid
For such a short time I think we did what others simply unable to make....

For your sure.... I will never anymore do such great work for a such short time....
I didn't saw my newborn son for a two moths making final version, was many times sleeping in office!
100% it is the last case when I have so hard work, I can't live anymore without own private life. The last years was actually like I had almost nothing.

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?q=Y&a=tpc&s=400102&f=26310365&m=9051096722&p=5
*****************************************

http://home.earthlink.net/~jagdgeschwader26/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/jagdgeschwader2s.jpg

JG52Uther
10-08-2004, 05:46 AM
After a few months of flying in mainly Western Front servers,i am getting back into the Eastern front again and getting my enthusiasm back.The game has to go forward or it will die,but i see a bit of a move back to the Ost front with servers like Eastern Hotshots and Warclouds EF http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

IAFS_Painter
10-08-2004, 06:41 AM
RedDeath,

I agree with BearCat and Cap'n Haddock.

I'll buy PF, but I expect my favorite plane in this sim will still be the I-153P.

Weather_Man
10-08-2004, 07:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by IAFS_Painter:
I'll buy PF, but I expect my favorite plane in this sim will still be the I-153P. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You should be able to land that on a carrier quite nicely. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Dunkelgrun
10-08-2004, 07:22 AM
What Bear said. Especially the 'ethnocentrically narrowminded' bit. The Eastern Front is still great, Il-2 has made me so much aware of so many historic events that I had only a hazy knowledge of, and PF will do the same. I've learnt so much through these games.

Now BoB of course, I already have all the answers! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Cheers!

RedDeth
10-08-2004, 08:22 AM
sorry but you forum guys are the 1 percent minority. every online pilot always talked about being bored of il2 and would leave the game. when new patches come out they might show back up.

again dont think your daily trips to this forum make you the majority. if il2 never got a new plane from day one NO ONE would be flying it onlne

i fly online 7 days a week couple hours a day since il2 came out and ive seen the cycles. i have my pulse on the flying community.
this forum crowd is eastern front biased but that doesnt mean il2 online would still be going strong. no way in heck. things need to change for this sim to survive. thus pacific fighters

Red_Storm
10-08-2004, 08:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RedDeth:
sorry but you forum guys are the 1 percent minority. every online pilot always talked about being bored of il2 and would leave the game. when new patches come out they might show back up.

again dont think your daily trips to this forum make you the majority. if il2 never got a new plane from day one NO ONE would be flying it onlne

i fly online 7 days a week couple hours a day since il2 came out and ive seen the cycles. i have my pulse on the flying community.
this forum crowd is eastern front biased but that doesnt mean il2 online would still be going strong. no way in heck. things need to change for this sim to survive. thus pacific fighters <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok, I'm not a forum guy, I hardly ever post here anymore, but I must reply to this as I strongly disagree. Me and a lot of other people I know would still love and play IL-2 every day if we'd install it. Just because you and some of your mates (must be a boring server if you all hate FB) dislike it, doesn't mean the rest of us do.

As for the western front, I'd much rather have seen it left out. It's opnly made things more frustrating with the flow of uneducated Eurpeans/Americans who just play to fly their planes and then whine when they can't win. Now we're at the point where Oleg openly admitted to have overmodelen the American planes saying "Happy now?" just to please the new crowd who want to be the best turners in their P-51. Same goes for the .50. In fact, I know a lot of people who don't even play on servers with American planes enabled anymore, so no, it's not the western front that attracts us to the sim. It's the fun we have in playing it.

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
10-08-2004, 08:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RedDeth:
sorry but you forum guys are the 1 percent minority. every online pilot always talked about being bored of il2 and would leave the game. when new patches come out they might show back up.

again dont think your daily trips to this forum make you the majority. if il2 never got a new plane from day one NO ONE would be flying it onlne

i fly online 7 days a week couple hours a day since il2 came out and ive seen the cycles. i have my pulse on the flying community.
this forum crowd is eastern front biased but that doesnt mean il2 online would still be going strong. no way in heck. things need to change for this sim to survive. thus pacific fighters <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dam you must be made of asbestos or something RD ?

We torched you an hour ago didn't we ?!? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

P.s you got your finger on something mate but I dont think its the pulse http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

SlickStick
10-08-2004, 08:46 AM
Still quite the orator, eh Red? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Someday you might find a clue. Although, I highly doubt it. Gotta love the utter blind generalization of your posts though. lol

The funny thing is that you can click on the FB link off of the main page and the content becomes dedicated to FB News and such. As well as being able to choose between FB or PF skin for the main page.

Gee, go figure. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

KGr.HH-Sunburst
10-08-2004, 08:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RedDeth:
sorry but you forum guys are the 1 percent minority. every online pilot always talked about being bored of il2 and would leave the game. when new patches come out they might show back up.

again dont think your daily trips to this forum make you the majority. if il2 never got a new plane from day one NO ONE would be flying it onlne

i fly online 7 days a week couple hours a day since il2 came out and ive seen the cycles. i have my pulse on the flying community.
this forum crowd is eastern front biased but that doesnt mean il2 online would still be going strong. no way in heck. things need to change for this sim to survive. thus pacific fighters <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

you know very little about the community
after flying for almost 3 years ONLINE both at UBI and HL more then 3/4 days a week i can tell you that ALOT of guys online at HL still have just as much fun with eastern front as western front ,i even lost intrest in western front servers for the bigger part and went back to eastern front servers.
and the proof is there ,you see alot of eastern front servers popping up like mushroom's on HL lately ..now why is that?

Lazy312
10-08-2004, 09:21 AM
I find Eastern front more fun and more interesting. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Capt_Haddock
10-08-2004, 10:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RedDeth:
if il2 never got a new plane from day one NO ONE would be flying it onlne <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But surely that has nothing to do with the fact that IL2 was set in the Eastern front.

Same could happen to PF if they don't release new planes in the future. People would get bored... and believe me, they'd get bored sooner in the Pacific than the Eastern Front. Once the novelty of the carriers wears off, there is not going to be that much variety left if you compare it with FB.

The point is that PF is not the first flightsim set in the Pacific and it won't be the last. I've played at least 3 Pacific flightsims in the past but IL2/FB is still the only one set in the East. I fear we won't see another one for a very long time. People don't appreciate what they've got till it's gone.

http://www.haddock.f2s.com/sig/F19bannerh.jpg
http://www.haddock.f2s.com/sig/F19banner.jpg
http://www.haddock.f2s.com/sig/efas.jpg

Korolov
10-08-2004, 11:58 AM
Biggest thing about PF - it's bringing on the A-20 and B-25, which we can use on the east front. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

carguy_
10-08-2004, 01:10 PM
I have flown the entire EF campaign three times on the LW side and believe me,I have been using the Me109 all the time and EF is still the only theater I have fun fighting in.

One flown VWF campaign said it all,Mustangs,Mustangs everywhere.

And may I say it for the 3543682th time it was THE WORK OF THE COMMUNITY that interested me in the first place.

No 10yr old brats,knowledge,skills,fair play,respect.

WUAF_Badsight
10-08-2004, 01:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tHeBaLrOgRoCkS:
Yes lets burn the Heratic !!

Just let me get my pitchfork

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

dude ! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Daiichidoku
10-08-2004, 01:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Red_Storm:


As for the western front, I'd much rather have seen it left out. It's opnly made things more frustrating with the flow of uneducated Eurpeans/Americans who just play to fly their planes and then whine when they can't win. Now we're at the point where Oleg openly admitted to have overmodelen the American planes saying "Happy now?" just to please the new crowd who want to be the best turners in their P-51. Same goes for the .50. In fact, I know a lot of people who don't even play on servers with American planes enabled anymore, so no, it's not the western front that attracts us to the sim. It's the fun we have in playing it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Are yew on DRUUUGS?

WUAF_Badsight
10-08-2004, 01:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Capt_Haddock:
[Once the novelty of the carriers wears off, there is not going to be that much variety left if you compare it with FB. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
PF maps are not only water

i disagre with the notion that "no one" would be flying Sturmovik if it never got new planes . . . . . but what i have noticed with FB is that "new patch excitement" wears off for me quicker with each succesive patch

adlabs6
10-08-2004, 02:13 PM
Just from my experience:IL2 for me was the highlight of this game series so far. PF remains to be seen. And I certainly don't mean to deny the greatness that FB, AEP, and soon PF will add to the game. And different fronts were never a problem for me, I enjoy them all.

The thing was, I bought IL2 because I was looking for a bomber sim. I played the demo of IL2 waaay back, and the IL2 was impressive to me, indeed the entire game engine was so refreshing compared to my last FS game.

But as time went on, I found I was wrong. IL2 was to be mostly about fighters, not bombers. This of course makes perfect sense, it's what most people like.

When FB was ready for preorder I grabbed it for the He-111 only. But for me, the campaigns weren't as nice as the IL2 campaigns were, and level bombing needed some bigger targets than tanks, like buildings and bases in the campaigns. I also waited for each patch for planes like the Ju-88 or B-25 to be flyable, but it didn't come. There were huge spans were I never flew FB at all, just waiting for the next patch to see what planes (maybe bombers) would be added. Online play for bomber pilots proved to be limited, if not useless unless you wanted to be a target for the fighters.

But I gotta say, FB/AEP has some super fighter play, enough to tempt me to dogfight still to this day.

So to sum it up, if not for the hope of new bombers in patches, I probably would've quit IL2/FB a while back. But in all honesty, IL2 is over with. PF is what's latest and greatest and it needs to be what's promoted. Any new player to this community will most definatly come not with IL2 in hand, but PF.

Vladimir_No2
10-08-2004, 03:17 PM
I don't see any point to buying PF. I certainly agree with Haddock on the point that the Pacific just isn't as interesting as the Eastern front. I love the variety in Il-2, there are biplanes, early monoplanes, ground-pounders, medium bombers, late-war fighters and a few jets/rocket planes. The pacific theater in comparison seems two-dimentional and boring.

In addition, the Eastern/Western fronts in Il-2 through AEP have more than just three or four combatants, and hence more of a variety of aircraft styles/air combat theories.

(Haddock check your PTs)

Hunter82
10-08-2004, 03:53 PM
I rarely played AEP... I prefered IL2 original and FB. AEP to me if it had included a 'real' Western map like England and other areas would have been much more sustaining as a sim add on for FB and the Eastern front.

PF brings for me one of my favorite WW2 aircraft the Hellcat...carrier ops will be fun no doubt...the element of bombers that can be moved over into Eastern front will be much more for me than just PF alone...had PF been a stand alone I'm not sure if I would play it more than occasionally.

The turn and burn mentality online is boring IMO and Co-Ops lack a ready room type environment where players can join/leave while waiting for a new mission to launch.... That is the one item MS ever got right in their sims..the ready room in the CFS series. If incorporated in IL2 with Co-Ops and NGen on a dedicated server rotating from theatre...the series would be complete in my eyes.


Personally I can't wait for BoB....

adlabs6
10-08-2004, 05:32 PM
Well I didn't want to say things like that but...

I'm really not thinking seriously about buying PF personally. If it starts getting really nice torp and bomber support, I'll consider it though.

I too am eagerly awaiting BoB.

EURO_Snoopy
10-08-2004, 05:43 PM
I agree with Hunter that the game lacks a Ready Room environment. You could get a good group chat developing before entering the game. I made alot of friends in CFS through such an interface, can't replicate that here.

T_O_A_D
10-08-2004, 06:07 PM
Agreed the ready room was a and still is a needed resource. I miss it alot, I helped coordanated the mission before it started. And gave a place to sit once dead and talk about the battle without using the normal chat pool outside.

Oh and I would still be flying the original IL2 if it was still the only thing Oleg made with no updates. Because no one as of yet has even topped it. Only Oleg has improved upon its greatness.

Red_Storm
10-08-2004, 06:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Daiichidoku:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Red_Storm:


As for the western front, I'd much rather have seen it left out. It's opnly made things more frustrating with the flow of uneducated Eurpeans/Americans who just play to fly their planes and then whine when they can't win. Now we're at the point where Oleg openly admitted to have overmodelen the American planes saying "Happy now?" just to please the new crowd who want to be the best turners in their P-51. Same goes for the .50. In fact, I know a lot of people who don't even play on servers with American planes enabled anymore, so no, it's not the western front that attracts us to the sim. It's the fun we have in playing it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Are yew on DRUUUGS? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What kind of silly question is this? What do you expect me to answer? Yes?

Cess-Harp
10-08-2004, 09:38 PM
IL2 is 3 years old, In gaming time that is a very long time.
I don't blame them one bit for changing the name to there new sim.
New money means new games.

Bearcat99
10-08-2004, 10:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RedDeth:
sorry but you forum guys are the 1 percent minority. every online pilot always talked about being bored of il2 and would leave the game. when new patches come out they might show back up.

again dont think your daily trips to this forum make you the majority. if il2 never got a new plane from day one NO ONE would be flying it onlne

i fly online 7 days a week couple hours a day since il2 came out and ive seen the cycles. i have my pulse on the flying community.
this forum crowd is eastern front biased but that doesnt mean il2 online would still be going strong. no way in heck. things need to change for this sim to survive. thus pacific fighters <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmmmmmmm well I may not fly online everyday for a few hours a day.. I dont have the time.. but I do fly every single day... for at least an hour or two if I add it all up, and I have since I first got IL2 about a week before the release of CFS3. You sure have gottten yourself on a mighty high horse there.. as if.... So you are an authority now and you have your hand on the pulse of the community... rubbish. You dont know who the "forum guys" are and who they arent.... and even if you did Im sure you failed mindreading 101 like 99.9% of the rest of us. FB is basically IL2 in different clothes.. some may say its better some may say its worse..... but it is basically the same thing. You cant look at a screenshot from IL2 or FB and not see that it is the same sim.. although like I said slightly different. With IL2 you had that "We are so special cause we fly this sim" kind of thing. IL2 fostered that because it A)Was one of the best kept secrets in simdom and B)Was and still is in its FB incarnation one of the more challenging sims to fly.. most people just either dont have the time or the patience to take the time to learn to fly the planes to thier strengths. As far as this winner.....

Originally posted by Red_Storm:
As for the western front, I'd much rather have seen it left out. It's opnly made things more frustrating with the flow of uneducated Eurpeans/Americans who just play to fly their planes and then whine when they can't win. Now we're at the point where Oleg openly admitted to have overmodelen the American planes saying "Happy now?" just to please the new crowd who want to be the best turners in their P-51. Same goes for the .50. In fact, I know a lot of people who don't even play on servers with American planes enabled anymore, so no, it's not the western front that attracts us to the sim. It's the fun we have in playing it.

That is about the biggest pile of horse$hit I have ever heard. One of the best things Oleg and 1C could have done was to incorporate the diffrent planes that he did. Like some have said..... we could use more maps, specifically a few more REAL western front maps.... like London and the Channel, Paris to name a few.... an accurate Med map would be nice too instead of that Fantasy map we have.....and a ready room type of environment wouldnt hurt either.. but h@ll.. thats what comms are for. And I dont care what Oleg said... the 50s were porked before. Absofrickinlutely porked. Anytime you had to dump a whole ammo load into a 190 to get it to go down...PFFTT!!! Still I flew the sim because I am a lover of flight sims which is why I still fly it and will fly it until BoB comes out at least. I remember the statement Oleg made and I dont honestly recall whether it was concerning the 50 cals or some FM on a plane.. I do know the P-47 in FB 1.0 was a piece of ****e..... And as far as the influx of "uneducated Europeans and Americans.." well..... I think the influx of educated ones out weighs the uneducated ones and I also think that overall the sim world and 1C are much better off for doing what they did. I am glad that we have the opening up that we do here. I bought CFS2 about 6 months after I got CFS1... I tried it.. it was OK.... but I preferred CFS1.. probably because most of my buddies flew there. Plus to tell the truth.. I was never thrilled by the Pacific theatre.... too much water... but will I buy PF? You betcha... because I am absolutely certain that the Pacific theatre iunder these FMS will be different and better than any previous incarnation of that war. Of course it isnt the Western front alone that attracts us to it... but for some that ISD the draw... some would have never given the sim the time of day if there had only been P-39s in it... thier loss I say. You are right about one thing though... this sim needs a few more changes to survive.... but if no more changes are forthcoming it will still survive.... at least untill BoB comes out. And you are also right about one other thing.... at least for me.... its all about the fun. I have FUN playing this thing. I feel like a kid again. I can take my totally screwed up day and put it all behind me for a few hours and then resume the battle. Im sure im not alone.

WUAF_Badsight
10-08-2004, 10:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bearcat99:
And I dont care what Oleg said... the 50s were porked before. Absofrickinlutely porked. Anytime you had to dump a whole ammo load into a 190 to get it to go down.... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i took a FW-190's wing off with only one M2 bullet , LLv Starosta's FW-190 wing , his mission file record said one bullet hit

they used to hit plenty hard for just 12.7mm MG bullets , when they hit

their hit power used to be even better than they do now , but with a much greater dispersion

Ketalar
10-09-2004, 01:00 AM
I still feel really sad that they changed the "main" address to www.pacific-fighters.com (http://www.pacific-fighters.com) and linked www.il2sturmovik.com (http://www.il2sturmovik.com) to go to that address.

In my opinion it would've been nicer/better to do it the other way around. Let the main address be www.il2sturmovik.com (http://www.il2sturmovik.com) and link www.pacific-fighters.com (http://www.pacific-fighters.com) to show that address. That way all the PF-n00bs who check out the webpage will think "Hey, what's this Sturmovik-thingamabob in the adress line?" and possibly go out and buy IL-2/IL-2:FB/ACE too.


Expanding our family instead of hiding grandma in the closet must be a smarter move.



Ps
I'll still type www.il2sturmovik.com (http://www.il2sturmovik.com) when I check the news when away from home. To me IL-2 is and always will be the sim I play, PF is just an add-on.

F16_Fatboy
10-09-2004, 01:36 AM
Amen to that Ketalar!

This is what happens when you give the marketing people too much power.

Mostly good points in this argument so far. Looking forward to BoB and think I might skip this PF thing. I remember one of the CFS:s where I just pressed a key to get me the next waypoint and then the next waypoint and€¦..

FLSTF

PS! Maybe we should start a poll to get the IL2Stormovik.com back!

carguy_
10-09-2004, 08:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bearcat:
And I dont care what Oleg said... the 50s were porked before. Absofrickinlutely porked. Anytime you had to dump a whole ammo load into a 190 to get it to go down.... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What range?300m?One thing I came up with from tests is that you have to get in range 0f max 120m to inflict damage somewhat close to the real hit effect.Test FW190A9 with two VERY good MG151/20 cannons on a Mustang from range of 200m and see what is going on.I had hit a Mustang from 100m so when it began running away I had a clear 200m solution.I scored 30 MG151/20 hits and all I saw was a FUEL LEAK!Can you confirm that 6x.50 inflicts more damage than 4xMG151/20+2x12.7mmMG?In close range engagements P51 armament is two times stronger than so called davastating MG151/20 power.Actually 100m half sec burst in wing disables LW aircraft forcing them to run home.ok.Realtively small caliber weapon like .50 cal shreds the wing full of holes but lets have a look at 20mm(!!!) cannons effectiveness.The effect of 4xMG151/20 is THE SAME as 6x.50cal - only interior structural damage but no big holes obviously HE MG151/20 rounds should make.On 20 P51 downs 17 are caused by fuel,oil leaks and fire.Rest is PK and snapped wings.Needless to say tearing a P51 in half with 4xMG151/20 converging in the same spot is impossible.

I`m used to see P51 disabling whole LW formations with 1sec bursts but all LW gets is fuel and oil leaks and Mustang human players still keep on shooting down their enemies!

Why the hell should 6x.50cal be more powerful than 4xMG151/20 beats me.

Oleg stated himself that he has chosen a different DM strategy based on internal structure damage which is absolutely in favor of .50cal.

So NO,nothing about LW weapons is like it should be.All the whining has fecked up the DM even more than it was.Now it is FUBAR.

.50cal fixed then the whole DM is ok,right Yanks?

mortoma
10-09-2004, 08:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RedDeth:
the point is IL2 is old and not exciting.

do you go and visit EAW or janes ww2fighter or SDOE or CFS1 websites daily anymore? NO.

dont listen to badsight...its not about money its about reality.

in fact imagine the original IL-2 game without any patches or extra planes. this game has to grow and evolve or it will die. its not like janes ww2 fighters that lasted 4 years without a new plane and was still fun and exciting.

il2 needs change or it will die because its not all that and a bag of chips.eastern front never was the end all end of flight sim gaming. thats why it always needed daily patches and new planes. boredom beater. the game is dead.

if you havent noticed the only thing keeping IL-2 going has been forgotten battles western front. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I disagree, if anything, people should still be a little less bored with strictly easterm front play than they are with western and pacific. I mean look how many people played MS Combat 1 and EAW. For the pacific we had MS combat 2!! We had Rowan's BOB too. Many of us played the hell out of these games depsite the fact that they sucked.

I still play a lot of eastern front missions in FB and so do a lot of people. The whole eastern front thing is still relatively new compared to
western and pacific, of which there have been tons of dedicated sims and it's been beat to death.

Bearcat99
10-09-2004, 12:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by carguy_:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bearcat:
And I dont care what Oleg said... the 50s were porked before. Absofrickinlutely porked. Anytime you had to dump a whole ammo load into a 190 to get it to go down.... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What range?300m?One thing I came up with from tests is that you have to get in range 0f max 120m to inflict damage somewhat close to the real hit effect.Test FW190A9 with two VERY good MG151/20 cannons on a Mustang from range of 200m and see what is going on.I had hit a Mustang from 100m so when it began running away I had a clear 200m solution.I scored 30 MG151/20 hits and all I saw was a FUEL LEAK!Can you confirm that 6x.50 inflicts more damage than 4xMG151/20+2x12.7mmMG?In close range engagements P51 armament is two times stronger than so called davastating MG151/20 power.Actually 100m half sec burst in wing disables LW aircraft forcing them to run home.ok.Realtively small caliber weapon like .50 cal shreds the wing full of holes but lets have a look at 20mm(!!!) cannons effectiveness.The effect of 4xMG151/20 is THE SAME as 6x.50cal - only interior structural damage but no big holes obviously HE MG151/20 rounds should make.On 20 P51 downs 17 are caused by fuel,oil leaks and fire.Rest is PK and snapped wings.Needless to say tearing a P51 in half with 4xMG151/20 converging in the same spot is impossible.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have my convergence set at 200 FYI..... Im not saying the DMs cant use work.. the sim isnt "accurate" in the total sense... but it is even in the FB 1.0 incarnation a whole heckuva lot more fun to deal with than anything else out there. IMO the older 50 cals just werent right.... real life P-51 pi;lots in WW2 could set thier dispesion so that all the bullets converged at a certain distance to make a hole the size of a 50 cent piece. The dispersion we had in the 50s was about the size of a Volkswagon Beetle.

Targ
10-09-2004, 12:45 PM
Shooting any plane down from the six is never the best thing.
I always aim for the engine and have very good results. The P-51 is very fragile when hit in the engine. Same with the p-39 and many other planes.
A burst of 20mm in the engine of any plane is always enough to bring it down.
As far as people thinking the R-2800 should be bullet proof, well it isnt and should never be. Any precipe engine is tougher than others, but not that tough. Put a round through the oil tank on any engine and it is going down.

Capt_Haddock
10-10-2004, 11:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mortoma:
I still play a lot of eastern front missions in FB and so do a lot of people. The whole eastern front thing is still relatively new compared to
western and pacific, of which there have been tons of dedicated sims and it's been beat to death. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly. I don't mind at all Oleg and Luthier releasing a Pacific sim (I'm definitely going to buy it to support the genre), but we know very well that PF won't be the last one we'll see... Been there done that.

On the other hand I feel really concerned about the Eastern Front. With all the development efforts focused in a US-centered marketing strategy it's going to be a very long time before we see another flightsim based in the lesser known European fronts.

Despite its huge scope, IL2/FB just managed to scratch the surface: There is still so much to see of the war in Poland, Norway, Finland, the Soviet Union... the list is endless.

I tell you what. I'm not leaving the East until they give us a flyable Po-2, and a Swedish Hawker Hart. Oh, and one of those nice PZL P-23 Karas. Yep. That'll do http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://www.haddock.f2s.com/sig/F19bannerh.jpg
http://www.haddock.f2s.com/sig/F19banner.jpg
http://www.haddock.f2s.com/sig/efas.jpg

F19_Orheim
10-10-2004, 02:05 PM
hmm I am really curious how the "online situation" will look in about 6 months. How many dedicated Pacific servers and how many Eastern Front.


Just spent way too many hours on CZ_AH_Dedicated..... A great server with a LOT of early war maps.. Thnx guys for hosting it

heywooood
10-10-2004, 03:30 PM
^ thats a nice posting right there ^

Vipez-
10-10-2004, 06:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bearcat99:
And I dont care what Oleg said... the 50s were porked before. Absofrickinlutely porked. Anytime you had to dump a whole ammo load into a 190 to get it to go down.... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i took a FW-190's wing off with only one M2 bullet , LLv Starosta's FW-190 wing , his mission file record said one bullet hit

they used to hit plenty hard for just 12.7mm MG bullets , when they hit

their hit power used to be even better than they do now , but with a much greater dispersion <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep have noticed something same many times recently..
I was flying my third Bellum flight, when Ross-Youss fires me with a P40E at range of about 800 meters. Log file showed exactly two hits, and my right wing was blown off.. my plane was 109 E-7/B (track file here: http://personal.inet.fi/cool/tmu/tracks/bellum_track3.ntrk .. ) two hits.. im not saying M-2 is too puwerfull now, it was powerfull in real life also, but it just totally leaves the german 20 mm to her shadow, i just dont like Brewsters 4 .50s doing more damage than fw190's 4 20 mms.. this only conserns german 20mms, japanese type 99 is good, as well as Russian shvak (kinda über asswell, like the hispano)

I dont think it was the weapon power in M-2 that was ever porked, only the dispense, which certainly is more than fixxed now, when you can set your convergence to 800 meters.. before you just had to get real close with correct convergence,, well now you don't http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

karost
10-11-2004, 01:43 AM
Hi,Vipez- http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

well you will see a picure that .50 M2(ap) in PF...

we know all Zero are wooden plane vs. that .50 LOL

I think there have 2 case :
case 1) Zero seem stronger can sustain 10-20 bullet in .50... that mean Zero DM stronger then your 109E-7/B ...LOL

case 2) Zero was shooted just 10 bullet from .50 and lost left wing ... wow if like that I can tell you , I will buy LockOn first and come back to read PF forum again at second... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

S!