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Lord-Rapter
06-11-2006, 03:01 AM
Hey all

Upon my return to sturmovik I'v found this pretty little number. Now I know that shes more of a ground pounder but - how good is she has a fighter? Could someone give me some tips on how to use this lovely aircraft as a fighter?

Any advantages over the jug? They look so alike http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Lord-Rapter
06-11-2006, 03:01 AM
Hey all

Upon my return to sturmovik I'v found this pretty little number. Now I know that shes more of a ground pounder but - how good is she has a fighter? Could someone give me some tips on how to use this lovely aircraft as a fighter?

Any advantages over the jug? They look so alike http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

JG53Frankyboy
06-11-2006, 03:06 AM
the Tempest was actually mainly used as a Fighter for low to medium altitudes in WW2 !
for example the in game rocketarmament was never operationaly used during WW2.

nice to read:
http://www.hawkertempest.se/

Lord-Rapter
06-11-2006, 03:10 AM
Low Altitude fighter? Wow - didnt expect that..

Xiolablu3
06-11-2006, 05:17 AM
Yeah Franky is correct.

Fast Low altitude fighter.

It was the Typhoon (its elder brother) which was used for mostly ground attack. The Typhoon is famous for its rocket support, the British Army loved those planes, for the support they gave. I remember an interview with an ex WW2 soldier, he said 'They were wicked, those Typhoons, with their rockets. They got us out of a sticky situation more than once.'

They used to have them on a 'cab rank' system, where they circled the front line until someone called in for ground attack.

I have heard a few reports that say hardly any German tanks were knocked out by Western Front Allied Tanks, it was the Rocket fighters like the Typhoon and Thunderbolt which knocked most of them out. Not sure if this is true or not.

Tempest is a good low alt fighter in the game but it suffers from a correct overheat, whereas most other planes can go for ages with WEP on (bugged). Therefore its fast speed is somewhat negated. (Something like the Me109's which can go for 10 or 15 minutes with WEP on, really has a cruise speed of top speed in this game, you only have to cool it for 1 minute out of 15, Spitfire is the same) All this makes the Tempest seem worse than it should be in the game. It was known for having a very high cruise speed, but as the game is now, this means nothing.

As the game is now, I think Tempests are best used as super fast Jabos, with Spitfires top cover, you can do well on a HIstorical Scenario Dogfight map.

danjama
06-11-2006, 05:19 AM
Try and find info on the 2nd TAF, that will tell you alot about Tempest operations. Theres loads on the net and in books.

Brain32
06-11-2006, 06:00 AM
Tempest is like a FW190A series and yes it is a good fighter, your only problem is FW190D9 as it is faster. Overheat is overdone, yes you can't even run it by manual as it will overheat at those settings, also there is a trim issue that makes E-retention a bit b1tchy. But it's still my favourite http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/inlove.gif
Also to correct some previous comments, it's low-med alt fighter, not just low, it's fastest at about 6000m(700km/h)...

Xiolablu3
06-11-2006, 06:11 AM
Actually Brain I dont think Overheat is overdone. I htink its UNDERDONE on all other fighters, thats the problem...

I think the Tempests is probably right, seeing as most fighters were advised only to use WEP for 3-5 minutes.


Good flying with you/against you other day on UKded2 btw, I love that server, its fun but with great maps.

Brain32
06-11-2006, 06:19 AM
Yes but I'm not talking only max-power here, there is a 1h limit setting in Tempest manual, and you can't fly at those setting anywhere near 1h, so yes actually in some segments or better to say regimes of engine operation it's overdone http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
In the same time Spitfire(I tested Mk9e's and Spit25) can achieve max level speed using only 85%thrrothle, no wonder not many people fly the Tempest, slower cruise, good but hard to obtain top speed and worse handling, why bother if you are not a Tempest nut like I am?

danjama
06-11-2006, 06:20 AM
I agree Xi, engines are much too user friendly in this game. The Tempest has it right i think.

Its way too easy to leave the engine at 110 and put it to 90 for 2 seconds to cool down when the overheat message appears.

But then again, i dont want to sound like these engines werent built for performance. of course they were.

Kernow
06-11-2006, 06:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Brain32:
Also to correct some previous comments, it's low-med alt fighter, not just low, it's fastest at about 6000m(700km/h)... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, low alt on the western front meant below 20 000 ft really, but that covers almost the entire IL-2:FB/PF spectrum.

Lord-Rapter
06-11-2006, 06:22 AM
So I'm suppost to BnZ at 6,000m?

Brain32
06-11-2006, 06:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> So I'm suppost to BnZ at 6,000m? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well that's how I usually do it, but then again I pretty much fly everything at 5000m+ except the FW190A's which generally suXorz up there.

HellToupee
06-11-2006, 08:34 AM
Engine 5 minute limit dosnt mean exceed and have engine blow straight away, dosnt mean throttle down to nothing hoping to cool engine intime before the scheduled break point.

Also brain cruise dosnt mean run around full throttle the tempest cruses plenty fast u can run it at 100% with wep without overheat at rad 4 can even fight with that. Rear views far worse than the overheating, overheating can be beaten its just so simple how it works.

p1ngu666
06-11-2006, 08:53 AM
there right in that u cant fly it by the book http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

also the sabres ended the war with 13lb boost, a slight increase of about 40%. its reasonable to assume the heat needed tobe shed would go up by 40%, or more.

given the amount and speed of the air through the radiator at decent speed, u shouldnt really have a overheat problem in the vast majority of planes..

its bogus for most planes

try a p47 up high, doesnt really overheat..
now try a yak, and ooh overheat city, but checkout the manifold pressure. its MIGHTY low...

Xiolablu3
06-11-2006, 09:09 AM
The problem with flying so high in this game is that you are pretty useless for winning the map.

You can do much more for your team below 3000m, cover the targets or cover your bombers/Jabos.

Going up that high seems pretty pointless in the scheme of things, seeing as to win the map you need to take out the ground targets.

I am enjoying more and more groundpounding in the P38, Tempest, IL2 and Me110 these days. If oyu get a good team going for the objectives, its far more satisfying than lone wolfing in the clouds all the time.

All of the best times I have had on servers are with the UKded guys, screaming back to the targets with 10 minutes to go to kill those last couple of tanks. (And doing it with seconds to spare) Or using teamwork in Hurricanes to counter the turning and speed of the Oscar.

Even if I am in a fighter, I usually take a bomb these days. Thats why I am warming to the P38 and Tempest these days. Both capable of carrying a big load and fighting their way out again. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Brain32
06-11-2006, 09:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> The problem with flying so high in this game is that you are pretty useless for winning the map.

You can do much more for your team below 3000m, cover the targets or cover your bombers/Jabos. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hmm, I tend to disagree, but then again it depends on situation, for example 2xp38 escorted by 2x spitfire's go into target area at let's say 2500m, cool ain't it. Well not really because a patrol of FW's flying at 4000m will kill 'ya all before you can say "bombs away", so what do you do, you call for support and here I come diving from 5-6000m blasting the FW's http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif. High cover is very important IMO...

Lord-Rapter
06-11-2006, 11:53 AM
All the fighting seems to be low level.. hardly ever does anyone come up to or near 4,000 - 6,000.. everyones dog fighting at 1,000-1,500 (loads of turning) so i can never get a hit in with TnB.. which tempest suck at &gt;http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Viper2005_
06-11-2006, 12:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Actually Brain I dont think Overheat is overdone. I htink its UNDERDONE on all other fighters, thats the problem...

I think the Tempests is probably right, seeing as most fighters were advised only to use WEP for 3-5 minutes. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Overheat is far from realistic in game.

For example, consider the Spitfire. It was quite possible to climb the aeroplane from sea level to 30,000 feet flat out with the radiators shut without overheating even at +25 psi:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">These climbs have been carried out with the radiator shutter closed, the radiator suitability allowing this to be done under English conditions. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/jl165rr.html

The Spitfire was far from unique in this respect.

Daiichidoku
06-11-2006, 04:26 PM
just what is the altitude to engage 2nd stage (or is that 2nd speed) s/c in the Tempest?

1C saw it fit NOT to inform us in the readme,
and i havenot flown Tempest enuff to determine actual hieght required

p1ngu666
06-11-2006, 04:30 PM
quite different from the manual stated alt, i think http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Brain32
06-11-2006, 04:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> just what is the altitude to engage 2nd stage </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
As soon as the boost drops, I never looked at the exact alt, always at the boost gauge, but I think it's somewhere at about 2200m, in real Tempest you had to do it at about 2800m IIRC.

VW-IceFire
06-11-2006, 05:37 PM
In the AFDU tests it says switch the supercharger whenever boost falls under 1.5lbs or 4lbs (non-WEP/WEP respectively). Happens around 3000m.
A +11 Tempest would be faster than a Dora. At the moment it can only match speeds...and it accelerates slightly slower.

An excellent fighter in the right hands...its deadly to those who don't know about it. Its a badly misunderstood aircraft that receives alot of misinformation about what it was used for...but we're slowly educating the masses.

Daiichidoku
06-11-2006, 05:50 PM
figures

we get 1.98Ata K4s that barely (if ever) saw service, yet take a miss on the more powerful, more produced Tempest variant http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

VW-IceFire
06-11-2006, 08:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Daiichidoku:
figures

we get 1.98Ata K4s that barely (if ever) saw service, yet take a miss on the more powerful, more produced Tempest variant http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
And they say blue is hard done by...

Xiolablu3
06-12-2006, 12:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Viper2005_:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Actually Brain I dont think Overheat is overdone. I htink its UNDERDONE on all other fighters, thats the problem...

I think the Tempests is probably right, seeing as most fighters were advised only to use WEP for 3-5 minutes. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Overheat is far from realistic in game.

For example, consider the Spitfire. It was quite possible to climb the aeroplane from sea level to 30,000 feet flat out with the radiators shut without overheating even at +25 psi:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">These climbs have been carried out with the radiator shutter closed, the radiator suitability allowing this to be done under English conditions. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/jl165rr.html

The Spitfire was far from unique in this respect. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Interesting Viper, thanks for that. So are you saying the Spitfire overheat which everyone complains about in the game is actually correct? (In the fact that it hardly overheats even at WEP)

I thought 'breaking the wire' (which I assume is WEP) was only to be done in emergencies and not for longer than 3-5minutes depending on the version of the SPitfire?

HellToupee
06-12-2006, 12:38 AM
limits were mainly to increase the engine life, which dosnt really matter ingame since well u only need it to last an hr at the most.

HellToupee
06-12-2006, 12:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Brain32:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> The problem with flying so high in this game is that you are pretty useless for winning the map.

You can do much more for your team below 3000m, cover the targets or cover your bombers/Jabos. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hmm, I tend to disagree, but then again it depends on situation, for example 2xp38 escorted by 2x spitfire's go into target area at let's say 2500m, cool ain't it. Well not really because a patrol of FW's flying at 4000m will kill 'ya all before you can say "bombs away", so what do you do, you call for support and here I come diving from 5-6000m blasting the FW's http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif. High cover is very important IMO... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Or u have p38s flying in at the deck the height most jabo p38 flyers go in at, spitfires at 2k. High cover usually shows up just after people they cover are shot down. Especially if your manoverign they scream down miss by a mile tell u they are blacked out for the next half hour or spiral down missing a wing, or just spend forever trying to make another attempt.

WOLFMondo
06-12-2006, 02:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:

I thought 'breaking the wire' (which I assume is WEP) was only to be done in emergencies and not for longer than 3-5minutes depending on the version of the SPitfire? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

On British planes the boost was controlled by the throttle and was continously on AFAIK. Just pushing the throttle past the spring loaded gate gave emergency power. Its more reaslistic in a Spit or Tempest to put the boost on and leave it on and control the boost pressure with the throttle, which is why the Tempest is bugged as you can't maintain 7lbs boost continously with the rads closed without overheating.

Most planes at there maximum take off weight had to push the throttle past the gate to get off the ground often.

p1ngu666
06-12-2006, 08:12 AM
well overheat is basicaly if the cooling system can shed the required amount of heat or not...

but when u are moving at 200+mph easily, there is a massive volume of air there..

its like f1 cars, they cook up when stationary/slow, but moving fast its not often theres a issue..

BOA_Allmenroder
06-12-2006, 08:24 AM
I had the opportunity to talk to a Spitfire owner this year at the Sun N Fun Fly In.

He stated to translate boost into inches of Hg (a la P51 etc) you double boost and add 40. So, +11 boost = 22+40 = 62 inches.

His aircraft was a Spit Mk IX built in 1945. He normally cruised at +4 or 48". He did not mention (I didn't ask) what propellor RPM he used.