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View Full Version : How much would you pay for an excellent flight sim?



roybaty
09-13-2008, 09:59 AM
In the midst of delays on pretty much all flight sim development, would you pay more to promote larger development teams?

I say that I would plunk down $100 (maybe more) easy on a new flight that was comparable with the longevity and quality of the IL2 series.

roybaty
09-13-2008, 09:59 AM
In the midst of delays on pretty much all flight sim development, would you pay more to promote larger development teams?

I say that I would plunk down $100 (maybe more) easy on a new flight that was comparable with the longevity and quality of the IL2 series.

crucislancer
09-13-2008, 10:04 AM
Well, I wouldn't mind spending more for a flight sim. $100 seems fair, considering that someone who bought all the IL-2 versions would have paid that much over the life of the game. OTOH, my fun money is so limited that I wouldn't be able to afford such a game until it hit the bargain bin.

M_Gunz
09-13-2008, 10:14 AM
Not counting shipping... several stages at $30-$40 each, IL2, FB, AEP, PF, PE-2, 1946,
all just as they were out and none from bargain bins. More like $200 and worth every penny.

Bremspropeller
09-13-2008, 10:43 AM
I'd pay 50-80€ for an (almost) bug-free and well-supported modern flightsim that has an in-depth simulation of (unclassified) aircraft systems.

Oh yeah, I WANNA hear all the whistles and bells on modern aircraft (I'm currently more into modern stuff) and I WANT accurate 3d modelling - including accurate flight-control movements.

That is a reason why I detest all those LOMAC-mods.
I wanna fly an F-16 or F/A-18, not just their visual model with cockpit and flight-dynamics taken from another a/c.

Aviar
09-13-2008, 10:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">In the midst of delays on pretty much all flight sim development, would you pay more to promote larger development teams? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's a valid question, but when you consider what many players ACTUALLY pay to play IL-2, it may become a minor point.

Consider that many players spend quite a bit of money to upgrade or even purchase a new computer. Then there is the money spent on joysticks, throttles, pedals, TrackIR and many other 'extras'.

When you take all that into account, the price of the game itself is tiny, compared to everything else you may need to play it.

Aviar

unreasonable
09-13-2008, 10:47 AM
US$ about 5,000.

That is much less than a golf membership or even a month or so supporting your mistress.

Work it out per hour of entertainment - IL2 is ludicrously underpriced compared to golf or sex.

ElAurens
09-13-2008, 10:49 AM
Maybe $75 US for the initial release, and up to $30 US for expansions.

Not a penny more.

waffen-79
09-13-2008, 10:50 AM
I would pay 200, two hundred usd, for a sim, that looks like il-2, sow, lomac and arma, were put on a blender.

ground and air combat, properly modeled

i.e: ARMA, air combat is a joke, period.
IL-2 ground units and buildings, their proportion is a joke

roybaty
09-13-2008, 11:02 AM
Exactly my point, as die hard simmers we have plunked down considerably more cash than other gamers. I am willing to pay more than to see the genre die. We are a niche market, and we should expect that things will be more expensive.

I not rich, but I'm single with no family to support, so I can afford to pay extra for this hobby.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aviar:
That's a valid question, but when you consider what many players ACTUALLY pay to play IL-2, it may become a minor point.

Consider that many players spend quite a bit of money to upgrade or even purchase a new computer. Then there is the money spent on joysticks, throttles, pedals, TrackIR and many other 'extras'.

When you take all that into account, the price of the game itself is tiny, compared to everything else you may need to play it.

Aviar </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

stalkervision
09-13-2008, 11:14 AM
I'd like it if they paid me.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Hell I do enough debugging of all these games for them. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Skycat_2
09-13-2008, 11:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ElAurens:
Maybe $75 US for the initial release, and up to $30 US for expansions.

Not a penny more. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I hope SOW won't follow the FSX marketing scheme of "Deluxe" and "Standard" versions.

buzzsaw1939
09-13-2008, 11:51 AM
You guys are forgetting something..... cost of the sim is nothing compared to the constant upgrades! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

JSG72
09-13-2008, 11:52 AM
I am waiting till SOW. comes out.

And then I am going to upgrade my PC. to play it. So it will be a top dollar purchase for me.

buzzsaw1939
09-13-2008, 12:14 PM
Sounds like I'm not the only one that got stung on that one Skycat!

With my current system they are the most expensive coasters I have! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Uufflakke
09-13-2008, 03:54 PM
Buying the game isn't the only thing:
For SOW I need to buy a new PC I'm afraid. My current rig is already upgraded to its limits. But I don't want to change to Vista after reading all this negative reactions here and there and everywhere.For the time being I stay with my 'good old XP'. And by the way in a few months there will probably released a beta version of a totally new MS system (Windows 7).
http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1582
That's one thing. See what that's going to bring us.

The other thing is this: When SOW comes out you can expect an add-on a year later(MTO, D-Day, Battle of the Bulge, Dambusters?) and then a patch and then another add-on and then etc. etc...
And after several add-ons and patches you have the complete box for quite a nice price. And if you wait a little bit longer you will have the complete package for the quarter of the price or even less. Just like IL-2.

It's just like wine: the longer you wait the better it gets...

Or maybe it's like the stockmarket: when is the right moment to step in...

Bearcat99
09-13-2008, 04:05 PM
Considering I paid 190 for this one.. if I add up all the versions.. not including add ons...

jensenpark
09-13-2008, 04:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
Considering I paid 190 for this one.. if I add up all the versions.. not including add ons... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yeah...then add in all the computer upgrades, new monitors, stick, rudder pedals...ouch.

Bearcat99
09-13-2008, 05:27 PM
Nahh no ouch on the hardware.. IMO that is separate.. and a testimony to the quality of the sim. Believe me... I dont think I would havce gone in this deep for any of the other sims that were out around the time.

M_Gunz
09-13-2008, 08:40 PM
They keep notching up the requirements so I won't have a PC that can play it when it comes out,
nor will I have one that can play RoF. But I'll get em anyway because

1) to support the development now and in future
2) when I do have the hardware, I don't want to not be able to find the disks

It's been pointed out, the software is not the expensive part. 1 or 2 years later the hardware
won't be so much either. I just wish there would come sims that would run distributed on LAN
since 2+ older PC's is a lot easier to come by than the bleeding edge.

stalkervision
09-13-2008, 08:44 PM
what is this facination with paying large sums of money for flight sims or sims in general even? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I say use it on a better computer.

panther3485
09-13-2008, 09:20 PM
I would pay up to A$100.00 (whatever that is in US$) for the initial release and maybe up to half that for each add-on. I'd also spend money on later, 'consolidated' versions so I'd probably end up shelling out well over A$200.00, up near A$300.00 because I believe in supporting a good product, just as I have with IL-2.

As for the hardware, I spend money on that for a range of purposes, including a good number of other games/sims so I don't weigh that into the equation.

M_Gunz
09-14-2008, 12:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stalkervision:
what is this facination with paying large sums of money for flight sims or sims in general even? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I say use it on a better computer. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's because of what inflation is doing to the developers.
$100 now in the USA is like $40 or maybe $50 when IL2 was first released.

Of course for less money there is a certain paint-by-numbers company that would make another
version of CFS and charge 50% more for it, after making sure the market is locked up tight.

larschance
09-14-2008, 10:32 AM
I would pay 30 maybe 40 for a starter sim like Il2. I have bought all the upgrades and addons but not the ones which mean fiddling with programme lines. Therefore I would only pay for future plug and play add ons.
Like you guys say there is also the new pc to take into account.

stalkervision
09-14-2008, 10:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M_Gunz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stalkervision:
what is this facination with paying large sums of money for flight sims or sims in general even? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I say use it on a better computer. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's because of what inflation is doing to the developers.
$100 now in the USA is like $40 or maybe $50 when IL2 was first released.

Of course for less money there is a certain paint-by-numbers company that would make another
version of CFS and charge 50% more for it, after making sure the market is locked up tight. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You think throwing a couple of hundred dollars at the flight sim market each would help? We are few and far between I am sorry to say. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

M_Gunz
09-14-2008, 11:15 AM
Seems to have worked so far. And we've been lucky. 10's of thousands of sales in the US alone
may be niche but there's room for the best in such a niche. The economic disparity that allowed
our good fortune to happen is changing though. The quality we've gotten for the money, well
you have to decide what you want, cheap or good.

I like RRG's scheme. It allows people to play for less and get more as they can pay.
I just hope that piracy don't f__k it up.

JG52Uther
09-14-2008, 11:19 AM
The price of the game is just a starting point though.Over the years I have upgraded my computer and other things (CH fighterstick/CH pedals TiR etc) JUST to play il2.
So,maybe 100 or so in total for all the versions released,and about 2000 in upgrades.
And I will have to upgrade again for SoW.

jarink
09-14-2008, 08:36 PM
$50 US.

Sorry, but if anyone starts charging $100 or more for any flight sim no matter how good it is you'd see it tank in less than a year. Sure, there would be some sales to the die-hards and guys with money to burn but you would get virtually NO sales to first-timer simmers or the casual gamer. No electronics store in their right mind would waste shelf space on something virtually no one is going to buy, further hurting sales.

M_Gunz
09-14-2008, 10:43 PM
I remember when no one ever would pay a whole dollar for a gallon of gas, 50 cents was too much.

Really I do think that the addon route may be the only way to get more than limited sim with
the buying price so limited and $ worth less every year. And I know how much the marketers
and store owner HATE addons.

I like that RRG is going with selling extra cockpits. Everyone can still play without limiting
to everyone must have the same models. I do hope though that RRG will release compatible games
with more planes as well, I'd like to see earlier WWI and there are so many planes they could
go two more complete sims at least. Besides, I want Zeppelins -- flyable if possible! And the
big bombers too!

Skoshi Tiger
09-15-2008, 05:15 AM
If it takes 6 months to develop a aircraft maybe we need a new way to fund it.

How about free patches that upgrade the AI aircraft so every one can play the a current version of the sim, but paid addons to allow you to fly the new planes?

Being a tight wad, I could see myself in my suitably aged MK1 spitfire being very competitive against the late model 190's in a '45 senario http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

(currently paying about A$1.40 a litre for petrol in Australia!)

M_Gunz
09-15-2008, 05:58 AM
Skosh, I'm going back about 35 years ago on the gas $ there.
$1 then was like $5 now (maybe more) and no, we didn't know how good we had it, it always sucks!

Worf101
09-15-2008, 07:59 AM
If the game came out on time.

If the game was relatively "bug free".

If the game was complete

If the game was a significant improvement over the current IL2 game.

If the game was compaitble with all my current hardware peripherals.

Then I'd pay $100 or MORE to get better immersion, better gameplay, smarter/saner A.I. and almost photo realistic visuals.

Da Worfter

BrotherVoodoo
09-15-2008, 09:55 AM
I would easily pay 100$ for a finished product.

Marcel_Albert
09-15-2008, 10:31 AM
I'd pay up to 70€ for the original game with the new flight engine , and would buy every commercial add-ons if they sell for about 35€ and bring at least 4-5 flyable aircrafts , further ground objects and 1 quality large (1:1 scale if possible ) map everytime

TheFamilyMan
09-15-2008, 11:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jarink:
$50 US.

Sorry, but if anyone starts charging $100 or more for any flight sim no matter how good it is you'd see it tank in less than a year. Sure, there would be some sales to the die-hards and guys with money to burn but you would get virtually NO sales to first-timer simmers or the casual gamer. No electronics store in their right mind would waste shelf space on something virtually no one is going to buy, further hurting sales. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I agree; this is the reality of the consumer market. Seeing how the bar is always being raised for entertainment software, I wonder how much longer this can be sustained before the development costs make the product commercially unfeesible. The only solution I could see would be tiered products, where the base edition hits the $50 price point but additional downloadable add ons such as complex weather, better AI, more aircraft, etc., push the actual price for the full-up sim well passed $100. BTW, that's the sales model used for some professional software packages, such as AGI's STK (which we use where I work).

adlabs6
09-15-2008, 11:47 AM
In order to see a flight sim in prices too much higher than the typical retail, the release would likely be published by a non-mainstream, low volume source. I seriously doubt that any of the large publishers would offer what is in their corporate view a narrow market retail box game for $100 or more.

I refer to the small market PC game publishers who serve as an outlet for developers who's work will never see Wal-Mart. I can't recall the company now, but last year I was considering an ACW title that sold for $75 or so through the publisher's website. This title was a 2D graphical presentation.

The FS2004 payware showed a good sample of what this kind of narrow market could be like. I purchased direct from the developers several times. My personal limit per aircraft or scenery was $35/$40 or so. A few years later these aircraft I bought still represent a very refined simulation, in my opinion.

DuxCorvan
09-15-2008, 11:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by roybaty:
I say that I would plunk down $100 (maybe more) easy on a new flight that was comparable with the longevity and quality of the IL2 series. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd gladly put not only $100, but $300 of Roybaty's money for a new sim! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

No, seriously, expensive games in a not-so-popular genre are not going to sell a sh*t. Better trap the user first with an attractive, high quality, low cost product and then start milking him/her with add-ons and follow-ups.

RevvinUK
09-15-2008, 11:55 AM
For something of the quality IL-2 has I'd be happy to pay a monthly fee if it included multiplayer servers. I recently subscribed to iRacing and wondered if a similar kind of business model could work for a future sim in the mold of IL-2. Online servers, stats saved and then release new planes and mission packs for a small fee.

Stingray333
09-15-2008, 12:42 PM
I am willing to pay standard retail for a flight sim same as any other computer game. $30-$60.

Monthly subscription? If they provide lots of *LAG FREE* high performance servers, with good maps, a variety of options and missions available all the time, with some mechanism provide so that we could moderate the servers (i.e. ban problem players) then I might be interested if the price was reasonable. $5-$10 per month.

If it is a monthly subscription fee just for licensing/activation so you can run the game, and then you must provide your own server hosting, not a chance I would pay a subscription fee.

Stingray

Krt_Bong
09-15-2008, 03:53 PM
Not too long ago I opened up a box that had been taped up and was filled with all my old games and some boxes and instruction books to make the box heavy, so I could use it to put my joystick on, lol http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif Anyway I realised I have a crapload of games some were bargains but most were $40-$60 each and some expansions as well. But think, $100 for a game is going to promote hacking and pirating because people will find a way to get it and not pay for it at all, SOW is going to be a series of expansions based upon a new engine that even they are still learning what can be done. But that means it will evolve and we might get only a handful of planes and a huge living map to play in but when there is a new theatre complete we will dutifully go and buy the disc for that, and the next, and you know. This way they will make the money that they need to fund all the candy they've been throwing us for practically nothing.
And here's some other food for thought,
Oleg has a huge job to recreate all the world of war II, the BoB was a relatively short period and this is not a Brit Sim it's a Russian one with a Russian man's perpective.
I being from the US think well BoB in 1940, Pearl Harbor 1941 and I know we went to like N.Africa and Italy that was like '42-'43 right, then we were bombing European targets from England. So I looked it up this is what happened this week 1941
8th September 1941
Leningrad is now completely surrounded after German troops close the land bridge at Schluesselburg. The Russians announce gains near Smolensk and claim eight German divisions have been beaten.
9th September 1941
N/A
10th September 1941
The British and Russians demand that Iran expels all Axis nationals with 48 hours. British convoy SC-42 (64 ships), sailing from Sydney to the Britain is attacked by a wolf pack of 19 U-boats just south of Greenland between the 10th and 14th September. SC-42 loses 17 merchant ships for 69,813-tons. 2 U-boats, U-207 and U-510 are sunk in return.
11th September 1941
German order of the day says Leningrad must be taken quickly, regardless of cost. Zhukov takes command of city.
12th September 1941
The first snow reported on Russian Front. German forces in the Kremenchug bridgehead across the Dnieper in the Ukraine and advance north to aid in the encirclement of Kiev.
13th September 1941
German High Command announces that Russian POWs will get less rations than other nationalities.
14th September 1941
Rommel launches a probing operation with the 21st Panzer Division towards Sidi Barrani in the belief that a British fuel dump was located there. The British forces begin to fall back. Army Group Centre completes the encirclement of two Soviet armies at Kiev.
15th September 1941
German soldiers attacked in the Champs Elysees in Paris. Siege of Leningrad begins. The US Navy begins to take over the convoying of British ships as far as Iceland, which is seen as an un-neutral act by the German government.
16th September 1941
The Shah of Iran abdicates and his son, Crown Prince 'Mohammad Reza Pahlavi' takes over. Guderian's Panzer Group 2 and Kleist's Panzer Group 1 meet east of Kiev, trapping five Red Armies. The US announce that it will provide escort for ships carrying Lend-Lease material up to 26?W, which meant that clashes with U-boats would become more likely. The Japanese government falls. Prince Konoye is replaced by Hideki Tojo, Japan's minister of war.
17th September 1941
British and Russian troops occupy Teheran, after Iran failed to comply with their demand to expel all Axis nationals. Beginning of general deportation of German Jews. The US allocates $100,000,000 to the Soviet Union for the purchase of war materials.
18th September 1941
Russians conscript all men aged 16 - 50. Units of Army Group South capture Poltava in the Ukraine. The Russians evacuate Kiev, but the fight to the death' continues in the area for a week.
19th September 1941
Lord Woolton calls the black market in Britain a thorn in our side'. Germans forces take the ruins of Kiev, along with a massive haul of 600,000 prisoners, 2,500 tanks and 1,000 guns.

from http://www.worldwar-2.net/

So I don't think we will pay $100 for a great flight sim all in one lump, I think we will pay a lot more, in incremental add-ons but we wont care because we will all be drooling vidiots wating for each chapter. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/inlove.gif