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View Full Version : Yokes Instead of Joysticks For IL-2?



terriblysilly
09-12-2007, 11:10 AM
Hello! I have read many posts, and it seems to me that many good players for IL-2 are of the opinion that joysticks are superior to yokes in IL-2 and all other combat flight-sims, with the exception of use for piloting heavy bomber aircraft.

What is their rationale for this?
What exactly makes the joystick better than the yoke?
Is there anything that makes the yoke better than the joystick?
What is the difference in control?

The idea of using a yoke for combat really appeals to me - but if it would make fighting frustrating, then I would buy a joystick instead. Can someone who has tried both please speak of their experiences?

I would think that the yoke would be more precise than the joystick, because the ratio of movement-to-response is much expanded? For example, with a joystick, a small touch will move your aim much, but with a yoke, a small movement would cause less change; therefore, more precise. So what is the reason that yokes are not popular? The idea of using one seems very cool to me and I'm disappointed that it is said they are bad for the game! What do you think?

terriblysilly
09-12-2007, 11:10 AM
Hello! I have read many posts, and it seems to me that many good players for IL-2 are of the opinion that joysticks are superior to yokes in IL-2 and all other combat flight-sims, with the exception of use for piloting heavy bomber aircraft.

What is their rationale for this?
What exactly makes the joystick better than the yoke?
Is there anything that makes the yoke better than the joystick?
What is the difference in control?

The idea of using a yoke for combat really appeals to me - but if it would make fighting frustrating, then I would buy a joystick instead. Can someone who has tried both please speak of their experiences?

I would think that the yoke would be more precise than the joystick, because the ratio of movement-to-response is much expanded? For example, with a joystick, a small touch will move your aim much, but with a yoke, a small movement would cause less change; therefore, more precise. So what is the reason that yokes are not popular? The idea of using one seems very cool to me and I'm disappointed that it is said they are bad for the game! What do you think?

Viper2005_
09-12-2007, 11:39 AM
I've never used a yoke in a combat sim.

But I've flown aeroplanes IRL with both yokes and sticks.

It's generally not as easy to throw an aeroplane around if it's fitted with a yoke. It is no coincidence that all the aerobatic aeroplanes I have flown have been fitted with sicks rather than yokes.

The only day fighter that I can recall being fitted with a yoke was the P-38.

leitmotiv
09-12-2007, 12:29 PM
Um, haff haff, I've used both. I used a CH yoke. Very precise, indeed. Quite different from the stick. Used it for the Ju 88 for dive bombing. If somebody made a force-feedback yoke, I'd be using it for the bombers, but I can't play without FF.

RevvinUK
09-12-2007, 12:49 PM
One of my squad mates used a Yoke for some time, I never knew he was until we got talking one day about controllers. He was a good virtual pilot and you'd never guess he was using a yoke. That said I find it hard to fly fighters and prefer to use a stick but perhaps thats because thats what I've grown up using to play sims.

From an immersion point of view it is nice to fly bombers and the P38 with a yoke and thats why my current setup has a Yoke built into the map file I have for my CH gear. Using the CH Control Manager software I can switch the X and Y axis from my CH Fighterstick to my CH Flight Sim Yoke just by pressing a button on my CH Pro Throttle. The switch is instant and does not require loading a new map file for the joysticks or changing any configurations in IL-2's setup menu. As I like to fly fighters and bombers online I find it very useful.

As far as precision goes I don't think there is any difference but again it might be down to my experience using a joystick for all those years. As an all-round controller I'd say go with a joystick, maybe add a yoke later if you want to.

Warrington_Wolf
09-12-2007, 01:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Revvin_UK:
One of my squad mates used a Yoke for some time, I never knew he was until we got talking one day about controllers. He was a good virtual pilot and you'd never guess he was using a yoke. That said I find it hard to fly fighters and prefer to use a stick but perhaps thats because thats what I've grown up using to play sims.

From an immersion point of view it is nice to fly bombers and the P38 with a yoke and thats why my current setup has a Yoke built into the map file I have for my CH gear. Using the CH Control Manager software I can switch the X and Y axis from my CH Fighterstick to my CH Flight Sim Yoke just by pressing a button on my CH Pro Throttle. The switch is instant and does not require loading a new map file for the joysticks or changing any configurations in IL-2's setup menu. As I like to fly fighters and bombers online I find it very useful.

As far as precision goes I don't think there is any difference but again it might be down to my experience using a joystick for all those years. As an all-round controller I'd say go with a joystick, maybe add a yoke later if you want to. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Your CH controller setup is the same as mine and I find that I cannot fly bombers without the yoke anymore, it just enhances the immersion factor when you are flying bombers. I tend not to use the yoke when I'm flying fighters because when I do, the aircraft just lumbers around the sky with all the grace of an airborne cow.

Choctaw111
09-12-2007, 01:16 PM
I thought about getting the CH Yoke just to see what it was like and give it a go with the Lightning for a more realistic feel. I don't know of any other AC that have a yoke in Il2 so I cannot really justify the expense just for one plane.

DuxCorvan
09-12-2007, 01:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Choctaw111:
I don't know of any other AC that have a yoke in Il2 so I cannot really justify the expense just for one plane. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Most bombers have.

BaldieJr
09-12-2007, 04:25 PM
i've been thinking of going to a joke primarily because the gimbals in joysticks are garbage. in theory, a yoke should be far more accurate than a stick because of the simplicity of design.

immersion doesn't really seem to be a real issue for me. i just want the most precise controler i can get my hands on because i've yet to grab a stick that included no dead zone.

JG52Uther
09-12-2007, 04:36 PM
It would be nice if Saitek can do the same thing with their new yoke and the SST software.Switching from a stick to a yoke with the press of a button would be great.

terriblysilly
09-12-2007, 06:34 PM
Hello! I would like to clarify my question please:

I am curious about the use of yokes to pilot fighter aircraft, not just bombers, as seems to be the most common use for yokes.

How does a yoke make an airplane handle worse, or more slowly? Is it not just a matter of moving the yoke more quickly than you might move the joystick?

BrotherVoodoo
09-12-2007, 06:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It would be nice if Saitek can do the same thing with their new yoke and the SST software.Switching from a stick to a yoke with the press of a button would be great. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


...No problem accomplishing this function with the CH manager. I use both the Fighter Stichk and the CH Yoke and I have a script set up to allow me to change controllers by pushing a button. To boot, I have the Pro Throttle and CH Pedals. To windows this looks like 1 device which allow me to also use my Nostromo N52, Logitech rumble 2 gamepad (which is attached to my FS), and logitech g25. It would be nice if IL2 could support more than 4 devices.

heywooood
09-12-2007, 10:40 PM
yokes might allow for more leverage in r/l however a pilot can manage quite a bit of leverage on a joystick if need be...

A yoke was thought to be a hinderance in US fighters..especially when the pilot needs to bail out...

the Lightning had a roomy cockpit compared to most frontline fighters and being a little heavy on the controls, especially the elevator early on, the yoke was decided on as the best option for it...kinda the same premise as med. and heavy bombers...and since the P38 was no joy to have to bail out of anyways with its unusual canopy design and that nasty horizontal stabilizer well...the yoke again seemed like an acceptable hinderance as compared to the extra control authority it provided the pilot.

I think I'll wait a while before I get a yoke...almost got one for FSX but the stick works fine and I don't lose any immersion flying it that way...But when BoB and KotS come out I might get one...I just hope that by then - someone is making an RAF style yoke...like the Spits and Hurri's used - it is similar to the German WWI style yoke and looks better than the Cessna style that CH and others currently make.

zardozid
09-13-2007, 12:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">From an immersion point of view it is nice to fly bombers and the P38 with a yoke and thats why my current setup has a Yoke built into the map file I have for my CH gear. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

I don't have a yoke (yet) but it's all about immersion...



<span class="ev_code_PINK">To answer YOUR question I think you should give some thought to the question of why the fighter aircraft designers(engineers) ALWAYS provided a stick (not a yoke) for the fighter flight control's... THEIR reason for designing a fighter aircraft with a "stick" is probably the same reason you should choose a "stick" to pilot your "sim" fighters...</span>


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Markku38
09-13-2007, 01:04 AM
I have Fighterstick, Pro Throttle, Throttle Quadrand, Pro Pedals & Flight Yoke. Normally when flying, I used stick but when I'm fly twinmotors (bombers and heavy fighters), I use yoke.

I use maps made by Revvin, it's easy to change stick to yoke when just press ministick on your pro hrottle http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Monterey13
09-13-2007, 07:32 AM
If you're using a twist stick for rudder instead of pedals, and you switch to a yoke, what do you do for rudder then? Would you have to use the keyboard?

Viper2005_
09-13-2007, 07:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by heywooood:
I think I'll wait a while before I get a yoke...almost got one for FSX but the stick works fine and I don't lose any immersion flying it that way...But when BoB and KotS come out I might get one...I just hope that by then - someone is making an RAF style yoke...like the Spits and Hurri's used - it is similar to the German WWI style yoke and looks better than the Cessna style that CH and others currently make. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Spitfires and Hurricanes have sticks, not yokes.

They have a spade grip on the top instead of a pistol grip, and they don't hinge about the same point in pitch and roll, but they are still sticks.

You can see this clearly in the game, and in photographs of the real aircraft.

Choctaw111
09-13-2007, 10:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DuxCorvan:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Choctaw111:
I don't know of any other AC that have a yoke in Il2 so I cannot really justify the expense just for one plane. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Most bombers have. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I meant fighters...sorry. I am not a bomber pilot per se.

BaldieJr
09-13-2007, 12:04 PM
the immersion argument is pretty weak to me. maybe i'm harder to immerse (possibly a little less into my pilots hitpoints hrm?).

personally, i can't imagine a stick being as accurate as a yoke. force-feedback shouldn't be a problem yet no manufacturer will produce the goods. presumably because of 'immersion' feedback from people who care more about playing pretend than acquiring excellent equipment.

i'm just sayin

Monterey13
09-13-2007, 06:55 PM
I'm surprised there hasn't been an answer to my question yet. WTF?

Bumpity bumpity c'mon guys.

heywooood
09-13-2007, 10:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Viper2005_:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by heywooood:
I think I'll wait a while before I get a yoke...almost got one for FSX but the stick works fine and I don't lose any immersion flying it that way...But when BoB and KotS come out I might get one...I just hope that by then - someone is making an RAF style yoke...like the Spits and Hurri's used - it is similar to the German WWI style yoke and looks better than the Cessna style that CH and others currently make. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Spitfires and Hurricanes have sticks, not yokes.

They have a spade grip on the top instead of a pistol grip, and they don't hinge about the same point in pitch and roll, but they are still sticks.

You can see this clearly in the game, and in photographs of the real aircraft. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok so its a yick or a stoke....either way - its the only other version I would buy...

Markku38
09-13-2007, 10:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Monterey13:
If you're using a twist stick for rudder instead of pedals, and you switch to a yoke, what do you do for rudder then? Would you have to use the keyboard? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's really good question...

When I'm started with this sim (IL-2 Sturmovik - first one) I have MS Sidewinder and use that with rudder...then I bought Sidewinder 2 with forcefeedback and use it...couple months go and bought CH FS,PT and PP.
Later bought Yoke and TQ...

So...if you have no pedals and use yoke...gotta do it with keyboard...or you must buy pedals http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

terriblysilly
09-14-2007, 01:23 AM
Markku,

Which do you like to use better for fighter combat in IL-2 --
your CH FS or your yoke? Why?

Markku38
09-14-2007, 08:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by terriblysilly:
Markku,

Which do you like to use better for fighter combat in IL-2 --
your CH FS or your yoke? Why? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mostly using Fighterstick.

All my controllers are still use - just started "Murmansk to Morocco" campaign (Bf-110) and use FS but using Yoke to takeoff (actually buttons with it...start engine 1, start engine 2 and last select both engines).

In fighter combat I use FS because it's feels somekind naturally http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I'm playing Pe-3 campaign too (first mission waiting) and then use Yoke.