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raaaid
09-12-2006, 05:36 AM
actually is pretty easy to caught a running away as usual 190 with a spit 25lbs

all you have to do is climb while you follow him, soon youll be going on thinner air and faster than him

so remember this next time you chase a 190 calling for mummy with a superior climbing plane

raaaid
09-12-2006, 05:36 AM
actually is pretty easy to caught a running away as usual 190 with a spit 25lbs

all you have to do is climb while you follow him, soon youll be going on thinner air and faster than him

so remember this next time you chase a 190 calling for mummy with a superior climbing plane

Xiolablu3
09-12-2006, 05:43 AM
WHich 190.

I dont understand what you are trying to say, surely if you are chasing a 190 then you have to follow where he goes.

If he leads you to his base/teamates or flak, what will you do?

You wont catch a running Dora in any Spitfire without an altitude advantage, and any 190A should be against a normal Spit IX anyway.

Saying that a 190 is 'running away to mommy' just shows that you must be a bit of a noob to the game, I am afraid. Do you suggest that he engages in a dogfight with a better turning plane instead? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

I'll take you on in a 190A4, with you in a Spit Vb, OK? Then tell me the 190 is slow http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

96th_Nightshifter
09-12-2006, 05:54 AM
Sounds to me like Raaaid got himself a kill and now thinks he is the dogs bollocks http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

It makes perfect sense for a 190 to "run away" until he/she gains an advantage of distance, altitude or team mates. What sense would there be like Xiola says in trying to dogfight with a better turning plane?

mrsiCkstar
09-12-2006, 05:58 AM
I wouldn't question raaaid, afterall he invented the 190! those damn copyright infringing nazis!

OD_79
09-12-2006, 05:59 AM
Not sure...I think it's great when a 190 stays to fight! Bring it on I say!

OD.

Xiolablu3
09-12-2006, 06:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OD_79:
Not sure...I think it's great when a 190 stays to fight! Bring it on I say!

OD. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

DOn't you mean 'I think it's EASY when a 190 stays to fight'? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

If I am in a Spitfire IX and see a FW190 turning to fight, I just think 'more meat for the table' http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Catch him in the turn with 2xHispano and hes toast.

If he extends away , then I know I am against a Veteran.

MEGILE
09-12-2006, 06:13 AM
Testing the avatar http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

tigertalon
09-12-2006, 06:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OD_79:
Not sure...I think it's great when a 190 stays to fight! Bring it on I say!

OD. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

DOn't you mean 'I think it's EASY when a 190 stays to fight'? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

If I am in a Spitfire IX and see a FW190 turning to fight, I just think 'more meat for the table' http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Catch him in the turn with 2xHispano and hes toast.

If he extends away , then I know I am against a Veteran. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You wouldn't believe how many times it happened to me that I succsessfuly turn fought in an Anton versus spitIX or La5. They are so surprised to see a Fw turn (and if the speed of engagement is not extremely low, and if you deploy your combat or take off flaps u can turn pretty decently) that they hesitate for a moment. That moment is all you have. It's a bit of playing with fire but if you are high enough to be able to dive away, it can work.

Few days ago I outturned and dewinged La5 in an A4 this way (was a long sustained turn) and afterwards he accused me of cheating, claiming that "there is no way Fw can turn this tight".

(Disclaimer: This has been performed by a pro that knew what they were doing, don't try this at home http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif ).

mynameisroland
09-12-2006, 06:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tigertalon:
(Disclaimer: This has been performed by a pro that knew what they were doing, don't try this at home http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif ). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Loved this bit http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I also know how to turn with La5/7s and Spit IXs (SOMETIMES) long enough to shoot them down. But its not common knowledge.

raaaid
09-12-2006, 07:14 AM
what i meant is that a spit 25 lbs will get any 190 by climbing

thinner air faster speed

of course if you want to fight dont take a 190, it is only usefull for getting back to base on a minute race

its also very nice to take off and find out that a 190 brings foes with him with energy advantage

not to mention that if people only flew 190 fights would be at 10000 m because they can only attack with E advantage, in the case of equallity they have to go home which is bad for the rest of the team because fighting in your airport means an E disadvantage

BaronUnderpants
09-12-2006, 07:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by raaaid:
what i meant is that a spit 25 lbs will get any 190 by climbing

thinner air faster speed

of course if you want to fight dont take a 190, it is only usefull for getting back to base on a minute race

its also very nice to take off and find out that a 190 brings foes with him with energy advantage

not to mention that if people only flew 190 fights would be at 10000 m because they can only attack with E advantage, in the case of equallity they have to go home which is bad for the rest of the team because fighting in your airport means an E disadvantage </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



"in the case of equallity"...There is no such thing, ever.


Almost like u would have a Bf109 C3 on your 6 at high speed....u would fly fast in a straight line. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

P.S. Iv seen a fair amount of Spit 25lbs running for their lives...or home to mummy, as u put it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

TeufelHund84
09-12-2006, 08:11 AM
As time goes on I'm beginning to see why this raaaid fellow is so famous on these boards.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Brain32
09-12-2006, 08:27 AM
Well Spit25 can run 575km/h on the deck and it can do it using only 85% power and thus NEVER overheat. Also very small amount of damage on a FW means huge amounts of speed sawed off, even a burst of flak near the plane can take away up to 50kmh without pilot noticing any handling difference(but that's probably becasue you cant differentiate cr@p from cr@p).
BTW the kind of incompetence needed to get outturned in just about anything by a FW190A, not to mention La5 or SpitIX is beyond my imagination http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

HayateAce
09-12-2006, 08:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mynameisroland:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tigertalon:
(Disclaimer: This has been performed by a pro that knew what they were doing, don't try this at home http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif ). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Loved this bit http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I also know how to turn with La5/7s and Spit IXs (SOMETIMES) long enough to shoot them down. But its not common knowledge. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And I love showing RunNinety folks how to do the dirtnap when they are shocked to be out turned by a P38J.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

raaaid
09-12-2006, 08:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">BTW the kind of incompetence needed to get outturned in just about anything by a FW190A, not to mention La5 or SpitIX is beyond my imagination </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Jaws2002
09-12-2006, 09:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OD_79:
Not sure...I think it's great when a 190 stays to fight! Bring it on I say!

OD. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I think it would be great if we had a real 190, with the real dive, zoom and acceleration. We would stay and fight then all day long. But you won't like it then. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Anyway, there's no bigger pleasure then surprise a Spitfire or La-5fn/7 with a turning foke wulf. I would really like to see their face when they just lost a wing to a turning 190. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif
You can turn with them if you are fast and have a lot of room to dive. If you turn at high enough speed the blackout is what limits the turning rate not the plane. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Daiichidoku
09-12-2006, 09:29 AM
funny when spit pilots say things like "run home to mommy" when facing 190s

funnier still is when suddenly they DONT say that, when they must face an A6M

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif w@nkers

Jaws2002
09-12-2006, 09:37 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

p1ngu666
09-12-2006, 09:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Daiichidoku:
funny when spit pilots say things like "run home to mommy" when facing 190s

funnier still is when suddenly they DONT say that, when they must face an A6M

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif w@nkers </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Scen
09-12-2006, 09:59 AM
The Spit +25 we have in the game is just plane silly... Enough Said.

Also do a quick search on Raaid threads then see if you actually want to reply.

FlixFlix
09-12-2006, 10:57 AM
t3h sP!tZf0Ya pWnZ t3h f0kK@Wo0f! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

raaaid
09-12-2006, 11:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">funnier still is when suddenly they DONT say that, when they must face an A6M </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i beat severals zeros turning with the spit

if i fail i outclimb then and bnz no need to run home calling for mummy

BfHeFwMe
09-12-2006, 11:45 AM
In war time every nation puts their BEST pilots in their Best planes.

This explains the defensiveness and inferiority complex of run90 pilots. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

faustnik
09-12-2006, 11:53 AM
What's with all the low rent posers trying to be Hayate Ace? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif There is only one original.

BaronUnderpants
09-12-2006, 12:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by raaaid:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">funnier still is when suddenly they DONT say that, when they must face an A6M </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i beat severals zeros turning with the spit

if i fail i outclimb then and bnz no need to run home calling for mummy </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



BTW the kind of incompetence needed to get outturned in a Zero by a Spit 25lbs is beyond my imagination. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Xiolablu3
09-12-2006, 12:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scen:
The Spit +25 we have in the game is just plane silly... Enough Said.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The 25lbs Spit fits the test numbers almost exactly.

F6_Ace
09-12-2006, 12:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scen:
The Spit +25 we have in the game is just plane silly... Enough Said.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The 25lbs Spit fits the test numbers almost exactly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pity its opponents don't.

tigertalon
09-12-2006, 12:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HayateAce:
And I love showing RunNinety folks how to do the dirtnap when they are shocked to be out turned by a P38J.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL P38 doesn't have any controls left at Fws cruise speed. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

tigertalon
09-12-2006, 12:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scen:
The Spit +25 we have in the game is just plane silly... Enough Said.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The 25lbs Spit fits the test numbers almost exactly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm quite sure it does. The numbers that are available. Climb rate, max speed, dive limit and turn times are pretty accourately modelled (with some minor exceptions like Antons not turning as fast as they should, or Dora's speed from 1000 to 4000m).

Still, there are no historical accourate reports of energy retention. And this, IMHO is the problem. This plane keeps it's speed up no matter how hard you turn. Try it and take different planes for a spin. Try a nice, level, 400kph, 30 seconds, 360 degree sustained turn, and watch how speed drops. Well, it does in most planes. It should in all of them. You guessed in which plane it doesn't. It's something it is very hard to verify historically.

p1ngu666
09-12-2006, 01:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BaronUnderpants:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by raaaid:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">funnier still is when suddenly they DONT say that, when they must face an A6M </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i beat severals zeros turning with the spit

if i fail i outclimb then and bnz no need to run home calling for mummy </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



BTW the kind of incompetence needed to get outturned in a Zero by a Spit 25lbs is beyond my imagination. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666//zerovsspit25.jpg

5c's suck. but that was the staple zero on arcade servers.

all the zeros suck actully, but 5c and above suck more. 310-20kph+ spit 25lb is better..

Xiolablu3
09-12-2006, 01:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by F6_Ace:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scen:
The Spit +25 we have in the game is just plane silly... Enough Said.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The 25lbs Spit fits the test numbers almost exactly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pity its opponents don't. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What exactly is wrong with the numbers concerning Me262,109K4 or FW190D9? Are the climb rates or top speeds wrong?

I am not saying there is nothing wrong , at all. Just wanting to know what exactly.

All I can really think of is that the Spitfire possibly dives too well.

Xiolablu3
09-12-2006, 01:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tigertalon:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OD_79:
Not sure...I think it's great when a 190 stays to fight! Bring it on I say!

OD. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

DOn't you mean 'I think it's EASY when a 190 stays to fight'? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

If I am in a Spitfire IX and see a FW190 turning to fight, I just think 'more meat for the table' http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Catch him in the turn with 2xHispano and hes toast.

If he extends away , then I know I am against a Veteran. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You wouldn't believe how many times it happened to me that I succsessfuly turn fought in an Anton versus spitIX or La5. They are so surprised to see a Fw turn (and if the speed of engagement is not extremely low, and if you deploy your combat or take off flaps u can turn pretty decently) that they hesitate for a moment. That moment is all you have. It's a bit of playing with fire but if you are high enough to be able to dive away, it can work.

Few days ago I outturned and dewinged La5 in an A4 this way (was a long sustained turn) and afterwards he accused me of cheating, claiming that "there is no way Fw can turn this tight".

(Disclaimer: This has been performed by a pro that knew what they were doing, don't try this at home http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif ). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Me too mate, if the Spit driver is not very good.
But if the Spitfire is Veteran and knows his plane, like Nightshifter, then you are not going to outurn him unless you are at very high speeds and will have a very very tough time if you try to close-in dogfight him.

F6_Ace
09-12-2006, 01:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by F6_Ace:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scen:
The Spit +25 we have in the game is just plane silly... Enough Said.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The 25lbs Spit fits the test numbers almost exactly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pity its opponents don't. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What exactly is wrong with the numbers concerning Me262,109K4 or FW190D9? Are the climb rates or top speeds wrong?

I am not saying there is nothing wrong , at all. Just wanting to know what exactly.

All I can really think of is that the Spitfire possibly dives too well. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

As TT points out (as well as a few others in recent threads), the Anton turn is off. The A8 was supposedly a pleasure to fly and a favourite of experienced Anton pilots. In the game, I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.

Xiolablu3
09-12-2006, 01:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by F6_Ace:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by F6_Ace:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scen:
The Spit +25 we have in the game is just plane silly... Enough Said.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The 25lbs Spit fits the test numbers almost exactly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pity its opponents don't. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What exactly is wrong with the numbers concerning Me262,109K4 or FW190D9? Are the climb rates or top speeds wrong?

I am not saying there is nothing wrong , at all. Just wanting to know what exactly.

All I can really think of is that the Spitfire possibly dives too well. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

As TT points out (as well as a few others in recent threads), the Anton turn is off. The A8 was supposedly a pleasure to fly and a favourite of experienced Anton pilots. In the game, I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I like the 190A whichever one is available, but of course the Dora should be there if the Spit 25lbs is. I was fighting Shiftr in a Spit 25lbs and Icefire in a Tempest the other day. I was in a Dora. It ended in stalemate (I had to retreat as I was overwhelmed by both of them) but I never felt outclassed and always had options (My final one being to find a teamate to help). My Dora felt a lot faster than either of them. I think I damaged Shiftr a little before I retreated, but I had an alt advantage when I hit him. Had I been in a Spit 25lbs fighting them no doubt I would have been killed like a dog as I would not have been able to escape once they got the upper hand.

MAybe you remember Shiftr, we were over Houfalise on that late war map with the V1 sites.

I do however agree that a Spit 25lbs and Tempest combo is an awesome force.

FW190A turn needs fixing badly, I agree.

F6_Ace
09-12-2006, 01:56 PM
You should really have been owned if you'd stayed to maintain the attack. The Spit should have gone high and stopped you attacking through fear of it bnzing you. Then again, if it was damaged, you have slightly more options.

I agree that the Tempest isn't really a match for a Dora...only a long-range potshot with those cannons is going to make a difference.

Xiolablu3
09-12-2006, 02:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by F6_Ace:
You should really have been owned if you'd stayed to maintain the attack. The Spit should have gone high and stopped you attacking through fear of it bnzing you. Then again, if it was damaged, you have slightly more options.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Shiftr didnt really have a chance to go high, I focussed my attck on him because he seemed the better target each time (He was lower than me and probably trying to gain some height, I think he had just shot down a Me109 over the city)

The problem was that each time I attacked, NightShiftr or IceFire would pull hard left or right, and if I had pulled hard myself to get a lead then I would lose all my energy and be set upon by the other.

I had made a few attacks hitting Shiftr's Spit in the wing slightly (not enough to do him much harm), but I dare not lose too much energy. As soon as I felt I used up my advantage, I started to head back to base in order to find a teamate.

In opinon also, the Dora is a superior fighter to the Tempest version we have in the sim at present. I also feel quite safe from any Spitfire, but shooting them down is a another thing entirely. If he sees you attacking then he can always break and make the shot extremely difficult for you.

F6_Ace
09-12-2006, 02:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by F6_Ace:
You should really have been owned if you'd stayed to maintain the attack. The Spit should have gone high and stopped you attacking through fear of it bnzing you. Then again, if it was damaged, you have slightly more options.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The problem was that each time I attacked, NightShiftr or IceFire would pull hard left or right, and if I had pulled hard myself to get a lead then I would lose all my energy and be set upon by the other.

I had made a few attacks hitting Shiftr's Spit in the wing slightly (not enough to do him much harm), but I dare not lose too much energy. As soon as I felt I used up my advantage, I started to head back to base in order to find a teamate.

In opinon also, the Dora is a superior fighter to the Tempest version we have in the sim at present. I also feel quite safe from any Spitfire, but shooting them down is a another thing entirely. If he sees you attacking then he can always break and make the shot extremely difficult for you. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree - Dora is superior to the Tempest but the Spit 25lbs can easily get an alt advantage over you which can limit your mission as you always have to worry about it coming down.

The other problem you describe also is dependent on the player being an 'F6 Ace' or not. He can't turn and cause you to bleed e if he doesn't know where you are...But knowing this is seriously major advantage time for any Spit driver in an externals on environment.

tigertalon
09-12-2006, 03:01 PM
Can't wait to wing up with u xiola in a D9s to teach them a lesson. Odds will be even then. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

Xiolablu3
09-12-2006, 03:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by F6_Ace:
The other problem you describe also is dependent on the player being an 'F6 Ace' or not. He can't turn and cause you to bleed e if he doesn't know where you are...But knowing this is seriously major advantage time for any Spit driver in an externals on environment. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Rgr, I think its pretty much expected that everyone uses F6 on externals servers. Its like Wonderwoman view on WW servers, if you dont use it, then you are at a big disadvantage. I always try and explain to new pilots about F6 because when I started flying on UKded2 I didnt know about it, and spent the whole first month wondering why I was getting shot down and spotted from outside of eye view distance! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

I use whatever advantage is available on that particular server. But I dont fly any wonderwoman servers anymore.

I use F6 on externals servers and icons on Warclouds.

I do love a game on Winds of War every now and again too. Having to ID planes on the attaxck really adds an interesting element to the game. We will have to go for a flight on there one night Norris. (And with you Tiger)

Xiolablu3
09-12-2006, 03:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tigertalon:
Can't wait to wing up with u xiola in a D9s to teach them a lesson. Odds will be even then. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hehe, Anytime. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

tigertalon
09-12-2006, 03:32 PM
To me, accusing people of using F6 on 'externals on' server, is like accusing somebody for using a chainsaw instead of axe on the "Chainsaw championship".

It's Olegs job to make an option "externals on without F6". Unfortunately all such requests have gone overlooked.

Scen
09-12-2006, 03:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by F6_Ace:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scen:
The Spit +25 we have in the game is just plane silly... Enough Said.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The 25lbs Spit fits the test numbers almost exactly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pity its opponents don't. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

BINGO Give the man a Honey Baked Ham!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

Vrabac
09-12-2006, 04:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by raaaid:
what i meant is that a spit 25 lbs will get any 190 by climbing </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Spit 25 will get any 190 by doing anything, so what is exactly your point?

Xiolablu3
09-12-2006, 04:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scen:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by F6_Ace:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scen:
The Spit +25 we have in the game is just plane silly... Enough Said.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The 25lbs Spit fits the test numbers almost exactly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pity its opponents don't. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

BINGO Give the man a Honey Baked Ham!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What exactly is wrong with the Me262, FW190D9, Me109 when compared to the real life tests??

OldMan___
09-12-2006, 05:27 PM
Someone who say FW can't fight without altitude (or any E advantage) never saw me going head on every #!@#&! time I can with my guns convergence at 1000 meters :P

You know, they still complain when they fail to head on with a monster equiped with 4 20 mm cannons.

Scen
09-12-2006, 05:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scen:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by F6_Ace:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scen:
The Spit +25 we have in the game is just plane silly... Enough Said.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The 25lbs Spit fits the test numbers almost exactly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pity its opponents don't. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

BINGO Give the man a Honey Baked Ham!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What exactly is wrong with the Me262, FW190D9, Me109 when compared to the real life tests?? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So does that discount the entire series of Antons and their related problems? How many servers do you fly on that actually have the Me262 as an option? So what you're really saying is if we want to be competitive with the Spit +25 we need to fly the D9 and the 262? Granted given the Era it makes sense but if you flown against it in the game it's the very same reason why not many servers allow Me163s 262s etc etc... You're basically outclassed in most respects. Even if that was the case in real life then why not allow for better Blue hardware?

I've seen many times on Warclouds how a single 25+ Spit can tie up 3-4 blue players. It's an amazing plane.

The question then becomes is it about game balance or do we just go with all real world performance and see how long people continue to play the losing side...

OldMan___
09-12-2006, 05:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scen:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by F6_Ace:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scen:
The Spit +25 we have in the game is just plane silly... Enough Said.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The 25lbs Spit fits the test numbers almost exactly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pity its opponents don't. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

BINGO Give the man a Honey Baked Ham!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What exactly is wrong with the Me262, FW190D9, Me109 when compared to the real life tests?? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

just a single example.. on D9 case. Speed is completely wrong at any speed other than sea level. Go at 2000 meters and its 40 km/h too slow if I remember correctly.

Me262 numers wrong? Single one.. numbers of Me 262 entered action : a few hundred , number found online, zero :P

109? don't think that there is something wrong on the negative sence (some issues with stall speeds comparing F4 to K4 some could argue).


With all planes.. drag.. drag seems to be modeled in a discreete way, with bands of drag for each plane, resulting in a very bad simmulation of acceleration and deacceleration, specially when comparing planes with very different weight/drag ratio.

Scen
09-12-2006, 05:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OldMan___:
Someone who say FW can't fight without altitude (or any E advantage) never saw me going head on every #!@#&! time I can with my guns convergence at 1000 meters :P

You know, they still complain when they fail to head on with a monster equiped with 4 20 mm cannons. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


When you're outclimbed out turned out dived it get's a little frustraiting.

I will never claim to be the best but I'm not new to the FWs and even with an large advantage it's a super tough fight.

The ability to change speed and direction has the advantage at all times to dictate the fight. The Spit 25 is exceptional at it.

Scen
09-12-2006, 05:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OldMan___:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scen:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by F6_Ace:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scen:
The Spit +25 we have in the game is just plane silly... Enough Said.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The 25lbs Spit fits the test numbers almost exactly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pity its opponents don't. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

BINGO Give the man a Honey Baked Ham!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What exactly is wrong with the Me262, FW190D9, Me109 when compared to the real life tests?? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

just a single example.. on D9 case. Speed is completely wrong at any speed other than sea level. Go at 2000 meters and its 40 km/h too slow if I remember correctly.

Me262 numers wrong? Single one.. numbers of Me 262 entered action : a few hundred , number found online, zero :P

109? don't think that there is something wrong on the negative sence (some issues with stall speeds comparing F4 to K4 some could argue).


With all planes.. drag.. drag seems to be modeled in a discreete way, with bands of drag for each plane, resulting in a very bad simmulation of acceleration and deacceleration, specially when comparing planes with very different weight/drag ratio. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree completely...

MEGILE
09-12-2006, 05:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tigertalon:
To me, accusing people of using F6 on 'externals on' server, is like accusing somebody for using a chainsaw instead of axe on the "Chainsaw championship".

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

An irony reserved for ex-UK dedicated members, it would appear.

Haigotron
09-12-2006, 05:38 PM
if the 109 is slow
and im a 109
then i must be...?...

OldMan___
09-12-2006, 05:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scen:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OldMan___:
Someone who say FW can't fight without altitude (or any E advantage) never saw me going head on every #!@#&! time I can with my guns convergence at 1000 meters :P

You know, they still complain when they fail to head on with a monster equiped with 4 20 mm cannons. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Try the other shoe... When you're outclimbed out turned out dived it get's a little frustraiting.

I will never claim to be the best but I'm not new to the FWs and even with an large advantage it's a super tough fight.

The ability to change speed and direction has the advantage at all times to dictate the fight. The Spit 25 is exceptional at it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

try the other shoe? I never fly with anything other than FW unless the sides are too unbalanced. I know quite well how to make a FW effective. And in my opinion brute force is the way to go.

If priceless to see a P51 spin and crash just because of desesperation when he saw a rain of bullets crossing its path form a almost random burst froma FW190.

This last sunday I shot down 2 P47 and 1 spitfires in 2 flights. All on very long range head on.. with MK103... very fun so see them disapear so far away :P

And one guy in a 47 even cursed: "how is possible that a jub goes down so easily!!??" lol.. show me something that can survive a mk103 on the nose and I show you the first Tiger tank capable of flying.

MEGILE
09-12-2006, 05:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Haigotron:

then i must be...?... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

you

CAF96th_Sillyak
09-12-2006, 11:14 PM
raaaid just loves getting everybody excited

fordfan25
09-12-2006, 11:34 PM
FW190's are very capable planes. in pit-off servers such as 334th ect i got MANY more kills in the FW's than anything else. if i got cought low in slow by a spit i died that simple but when you fly it right its nearly unbeatble. You must dedacate to B&Z. its VERY stable, and rolls well at high speeds and it 20mm's and mk108's are just plain uber period. but in warclouds i cant fly her as i have never allowed my self to get used to the cr*p forward veiw. plus it can take a unbeleavble amount of .50 fire from 6.

F6_Ace
09-13-2006, 01:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tigertalon:
To me, accusing people of using F6 on 'externals on' server, is like accusing somebody for using a chainsaw instead of axe on the "Chainsaw championship".

It's Olegs job to make an option "externals on without F6". Unfortunately all such requests have gone overlooked. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes and I've asked many times for this issue to be looked at by Oleg. Seems he's more interested in adding novelties, rather than what appears to be a simple change (especially if implemented as a server switch rather than a change to the GUI) instead. I find F6 usage noobish and people forget that it destroys any "balance" between opposing aircraft.

Ah...and I see the old 'but the FW does well on xyz DF server so it must be alright' gag. Hadrian f***ing Saints.

BBB_Hyperion
09-13-2006, 01:48 AM
Flying the 190 with externals off is like a walk in the park with externals on the real challenge starts .)

HellToupee
09-13-2006, 01:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by F6_Ace:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tigertalon:
To me, accusing people of using F6 on 'externals on' server, is like accusing somebody for using a chainsaw instead of axe on the "Chainsaw championship".

It's Olegs job to make an option "externals on without F6". Unfortunately all such requests have gone overlooked. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes and I've asked many times for this issue to be looked at by Oleg. Seems he's more interested in adding novelties, rather than what appears to be a simple change (especially if implemented as a server switch rather than a change to the GUI) instead. I find F6 usage noobish and people forget that it destroys any "balance" between opposing aircraft.

Ah...and I see the old 'but the FW does well on xyz DF server so it must be alright' gag. Hadrian f***ing Saints. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

externals off = no f6

La7_brook
09-13-2006, 02:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by raaaid:
actually is pretty easy to caught a running away as usual 190 with a spit 25lbs

all you have to do is climb while you follow him, soon youll be going on thinner air and faster than him

so remember this next time you chase a 190 calling for mummy with a superior climbing plane </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Fw 190A V school bus ,on 1/4 mile ,bets please lol

BGs_Ricky
09-13-2006, 02:46 AM
Depends wich Schoolbus modellling you're considering. For example the Schoolbus in Interstate '76 was overmodelled http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

p1ngu666
09-13-2006, 02:47 AM
i dont even use F6 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

RCAF_Irish_403
09-13-2006, 03:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by p1ngu666:
i dont even use F6 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i got rid of that function as well...it disorients me. i have a hard time remembering exactly what that does http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/354.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sleepzzz.gif

WOLFMondo
09-13-2006, 03:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fordfan25:
FW190's are very capable planes. in pit-off servers such as 334th ect i got MANY more kills in the FW's than anything else. if i got cought low in slow by a spit i died that simple but when you fly it right its nearly unbeatble. You must dedacate to B&Z. its VERY stable, and rolls well at high speeds and it 20mm's and mk108's are just plain uber period. but in warclouds i cant fly her as i have never allowed my self to get used to the cr*p forward veiw. plus it can take a unbeleavble amount of .50 fire from 6. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

334th makes me look like a pro. I flew there once and get 6 planes in one sorties with an A9. Just just hung about at 3K and jumped all the La7s doing circles on the deck. On WC its different, no F6, no external view, no wonder woman, lots of people flying at 4-5K, lots of people on comms, lots of good virtual pilots.

BBB_Hyperion
09-13-2006, 04:31 AM
It is always the same slow climbing planes are put in disadvantage on all df servers. Time vs alt clearly favours good climbers against speed vs distance.
It doesnt matter if fr or externals on etc it is always the same on df servers. The favour goes only in energy fighter direction when there are enough turnfigthers dump enough to follow or even worse follow 1 target with n+ planes(noob server average) so others can gain energy advantage.

On externals on servers that is even more noticeable cause you cant escape f6 or surprise and disappear like on fr servers. It is harder to use energy planes to full extend there. So getting a kill in an energy plane somehow depends on opponents errors in plane handling and overall situation.

OldMan____
09-13-2006, 04:45 AM
I can't even understand how people can fly on externals on and pit off servers. Zero imersion. No tatics , there is always a dam arrow or F6 telling the enemy where you are.

ZERO imersion! Zero! Zero tyatics, Zero skill needed when compared to WC style servers (Spitvs109, winds of war .. etc...)

Pit off servers are for Turn and Burn simplistics style of play. Don't even shoudl ever considering using the work FW190 and pit off, oexternals on on the same forum thread.

jermin122
09-13-2006, 04:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by raaaid:
what i meant is that a spit 25 lbs will get any 190 by climbing

thinner air faster speed

of course if you want to fight dont take a 190, it is only usefull for getting back to base on a minute race

its also very nice to take off and find out that a 190 brings foes with him with energy advantage

not to mention that if people only flew 190 fights would be at 10000 m because they can only attack with E advantage, in the case of equallity they have to go home which is bad for the rest of the team because fighting in your airport means an E disadvantage </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your telling the truth, raaaid.

OldMan____
09-13-2006, 05:20 AM
Not true. Just tunr around and face hime head one. Stupid? Yeahh.. but even more stupid for him since you have twice teh firepower and is 3 times more resilent to front fire.

Manu-6S
09-13-2006, 05:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OldMan____:
Not true. Just tunr around and face hime head one. Stupid? Yeahh.. but even more stupid for him since you have twice teh firepower and is 3 times more resilent to front fire. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ehm... So you take your stand fighting poor pilots who go head on with you?

And what if there are no poor Spit pilots in that server?

Smart pilots NEVER do headon against FWs; instead they can use the great Spit agility to avoid FW's attacks, and after 2 passes (1 pass if co-altitude) the Spit is on FW's 6.

I'm saying this because happens to me everytime I fly in Spit (not many times): when you can keep fighting against 2 FW and 2 bf at the same time avoiding all their attacks...

Describing the power of a plane flying DF server is useless: you always find some noob pilot flying 500m. The same thing speaking about stats.

Our Antos are almost donkeys then they should be warhorses: you can still fight with them... but are different things.

PS: I want to complete your list about Me262s, Doras and bf109s: in our late bf109s the controls totally freeze at 450km/h when IRL it was 600/650kmh... it can seem a little issue, but it doesn't.

PPS: I fly only in full realism server: IMO external are for an arcade game.

OD_79
09-13-2006, 05:55 AM
Personally I spend most of my time online flying in WarClouds so finding a 190 pilot who is willing to turn can be rare, but when they do they don't tend to repeat the mistake.
I find them a pain when I am in a fight with multiple 109's and a 190 shows up. Otherwise in a normal Spit (not 25lb - which I didn't tend to fly - prefer the MkVIII CW) it's dead easy to just time the break high and right or left and they can't follow, same goes for 109s but it just has to be a bit tighter.
Chasing a 190 is pointless, unless you are looking for a fight over their airfield!
You know when you are up against a pro in a 190, 109 it is harder to know, I find it relatively easy to fly.
As for the Spitfire Tempest Combo I'd agree if the rear view on the Tempest was functional! I love the way it flies but I can't stand not being able to see anything behind me.

OD.

F6_Ace
09-13-2006, 05:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BBB_Hyperion:
Flying the 190 with externals off is like a walk in the park with externals on the real challenge starts .) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

With WW view, getting kills in the 190 is easy as you can actually see out of it so a hard turn by some F6 noob may well not do him any good.

Cockpit on, externals on is the ideal environment for those that don't like getting bagged by bnz aircraft - in particular, 190s.

OldMan____
09-13-2006, 07:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Manu-6S:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OldMan____:
Not true. Just tunr around and face hime head one. Stupid? Yeahh.. but even more stupid for him since you have twice teh firepower and is 3 times more resilent to front fire. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ehm... So you take your stand fighting poor pilots who go head on with you?

And what if there are no poor Spit pilots in that server?

Smart pilots NEVER do headon against FWs; instead they can use the great Spit agility to avoid FW's attacks, and after 2 passes (1 pass if co-altitude) the Spit is on FW's 6.

I'm saying this because happens to me everytime I fly in Spit (not many times): when you can keep fighting against 2 FW and 2 bf at the same time avoiding all their attacks...

Describing the power of a plane flying DF server is useless: you always find some noob pilot flying 500m. The same thing speaking about stats.

Our Antos are almost donkeys then they should be warhorses: you can still fight with them... but are different things.

PS: I want to complete your list about Me262s, Doras and bf109s: in our late bf109s the controls totally freeze at 450km/h when IRL it was 600/650kmh... it can seem a little issue, but it doesn't.

PPS: I fly only in full realism server: IMO external are for an arcade game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>´

Just don't engage him. Only accept fight on your conditions. E advantage, head on or when he is not seeing you.

You can also win in a scissor fight since the FW breaks waaaay faster than a spitfire. But this a purely defensive and no return move.

When a plane appears at my six.. it doe snot matter wich one is. I never try t revert. I run.. If he got there he is in advantage, my role is get out of there alive. I only fight the fights I started.

BBB_Hyperion
09-13-2006, 07:14 AM
So in general you agree externals on is harder for E-fighters ?

Of course pit on is another step but that is just a question of aiming and timing ,pit on less time and less view to estimate right deflection. That is harder compared to pit off. But this isnt the case for externals off it is not harder it is easier for B&Z planes to have it off.

Manu-6S
09-13-2006, 07:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OldMan____:
Just don't engage him. Only accept fight on your conditions. E advantage, head on or when he is not seeing you.

You can also win in a scissor fight since the FW breaks waaaay faster than a spitfire. But this a purely defensive and no return move.

When a plane appears at my six.. it doe snot matter wich one is. I never try t revert. I run.. If he got there he is in advantage, my role is get out of there alive. I only fight the fights I started. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What you say works with all a/c (in part the headon, nothing stop the pilot from doing it).

A scissor is a desperate manouvre, and usually doesn't work if the enemy is smart; he will climb over you to maintain energy and you'll find yourself slow and useless. Always if you have not wingmen to help you.

OldMan____
09-13-2006, 08:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Manu-6S:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OldMan____:
Just don't engage him. Only accept fight on your conditions. E advantage, head on or when he is not seeing you.

You can also win in a scissor fight since the FW breaks waaaay faster than a spitfire. But this a purely defensive and no return move.

When a plane appears at my six.. it doe snot matter wich one is. I never try t revert. I run.. If he got there he is in advantage, my role is get out of there alive. I only fight the fights I started. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What you say works with all a/c (in part the headon, nothing stop the pilot from doing it).

A scissor is a desperate manouvre, and usually doesn't work if the enemy is smart; he will climb over you to maintain energy and you'll find yourself slow and useless. Always if you have not wingmen to help you. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Head on works for all, but is specially effecive for FW that have a imune zone in front of them and have huge firepower (and usually keep convergence far away).


Scissors are not that innefective, if you 2 are not fast enough so that the enemy may just pull up. The bandit must disengage in the first arm of the scissor or he will be already commited. Spit pilots usualy trust too much on theirs turn capability to quit on the first move bya mere FW target. Do you get what I maen? its a psicological game.

Me Spit pilot, he FW, he is making a hard turn (in fact is trying to start scissors).. I am not going to be defeated by a turning FW. So I turn.. he reverses.. done.. I am engaged and or I commit fully to it or disengage going in a completely different direction than him (a spit will never catch a FW again that started runnin in oposite direction)

Manu-6S
09-13-2006, 08:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OldMan____:
Spit pilots usualy trust too much on theirs turn capability to quit on the first move bya mere FW target. Do you get what I maen? its a psicological game.

Me Spit pilot, he FW, he is making a hard turn (in fact is trying to start scissors).. I am not going to be defeated by a turning FW. So I turn.. he reverses.. done.. I am engaged and or I commit fully to it or disengage going in a completely different direction than him (a spit will never catch a FW again that started runnin in oposite direction) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes I know: infact if I'm chasing an Anton that starts to turn simply I don't follow it, but I make a lag turn to swap my speed with altitude to draw advantage from my lowspeed turning ability. After this I find myself higher, with almost same speed and same direction.

Xiolablu3
09-13-2006, 09:43 AM
I love the Anton, even with its undermoddelled turn.

It just takes more discipline to fight well in it and you really need a wingman.

If you keep your head its the plane which will always get you home and I think I am right in saying its got the best survivabilty ratio thru the 1942-43 period.

On the servers I play on, if the Spit 25lbs is there, then so are either the FW190D,Me262 or 109K4, all of these have options against the Spit 25lbs.

F6_Ace
09-13-2006, 09:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BBB_Hyperion:
So in general you agree externals on is harder for E-fighters ?

Of course pit on is another step but that is just a question of aiming and timing ,pit on less time and less view to estimate right deflection. That is harder compared to pit off. But this isnt the case for externals off it is not harder it is easier for B&Z planes to have it off. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not sure if you were replying to me here but in my opinion, for a bnz attacker, it is....

(Hard towards top of list)
a. Externals on, pit on.
b. Externals on, pit off.
c. Externals off, pit on.
d. Externals off, pit off

Manu-6S
09-13-2006, 09:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by F6_Ace:
I'm not sure if you were replying to me here but in my opinion, for a bnz attacker, it is....

(Hard towards top of list)
a. Externals on, pit on.
b. Externals on, pit off.
c. Externals off, pit on.
d. Externals off, pit off </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ext on:
"Ok I'm at 4000m alt. Now lets see if there is somebody below: no, nobody... but wait! I saw some fire trails... I can't see who did fire, but I have a magic key to find it out. Click."

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

F6_Ace
09-13-2006, 09:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Manu-6S:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by F6_Ace:
I'm not sure if you were replying to me here but in my opinion, for a bnz attacker, it is....

(Hard towards top of list)
a. Externals on, pit on.
b. Externals on, pit off.
c. Externals off, pit on.
d. Externals off, pit off </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ext on:
"Ok I'm at 4000m alt. Now lets see if there is somebody below: no, nobody... but wait! I saw some fire trails... I can't see who did fire, but I have a magic key to find it out. Click."

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, but look on the bright side...at least you'll have some extra jets to play with before long http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

faustnik
09-13-2006, 10:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Manu-6S:
Ext on:
"Ok I'm at 4000m alt. Now lets see if there is somebody below: no, nobody... but wait! I saw some fire trails... I can't see who did fire, but I have a magic key to find it out. Click."

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

I have to admit a real dislike for both no-pit and external servers. I've certainly flown on them many times however, if I see some friends there. Nothing worse that setting up that perfect bounce only to be foiled by the F6. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

Fw190 with pit-off is just wrong. Tie fighter anybody? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

(disclaimer: use whatever settings you like, it's all in fun.)

BBB_Hyperion
09-13-2006, 11:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by F6_Ace:

(Hard towards top of list)
a. Externals on, pit on.
b. Externals on, pit off.
c. Externals off, pit on.
d. Externals off, pit off </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agree to Agree http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Yak_Ace
09-13-2006, 11:15 AM
So, what is FW-190A-9's maximum speed??? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Xiolablu3
09-13-2006, 12:05 PM
I like both externals on and off games.

Exterals/F6 on is good for gaming, more action, less adrenaline, more fun.

Externals off - good for simulation, more adrenaline, less action,

I tend to fly externals on more because the crowd on the server I play on is so great, and its more of a relaxing 'game'.

I like to fly Warclouds and winds of war when I am looking for that adrenaline rush/worry that you can always be bounced. It is harder, but also really cool.

I dont like flying wonder woman view anymore, although I started flying on those servers. I feel pit on just adds much more immersion. I think most pilots naturally 'graduate' to harder settings when they master new things. They are looking for more challenge.

faustnik
09-13-2006, 12:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
I think most pilots naturally 'graduate' to harder settings when they master new things. They are looking for more challenge. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not nescessarily. I like servers with "harder" settings because the action slows down. I work better at a slower pace. Fast paced FPS games give me fits, I just can't handle it. Open settings in PF are the same way for me, the action is just too fast. So, it's all relative.

BaronUnderpants
09-13-2006, 12:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by faustnik:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
I think most pilots naturally 'graduate' to harder settings when they master new things. They are looking for more challenge. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not nescessarily. I like servers with "harder" settings because the action slows down. I work better at a slower pace. Fast paced FPS games give me fits, I just can't handle it. Open settings in PF are the same way for me, the action is just too fast. So, it's all relative. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Maby thats the "problem" with u FullReal pilots, WW servers gives u a brain meldown as u actually SEE 5 red/blue charging at u from differant directions, u just dont know what to do, so u die.......no need calling WW pilots noobs because of your own short commings. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/crackwhip.gif

P.S. not directed at u in perticular Faustnik. Nice to hear a differant explenation as to why someone doesnt like a perticular setting other than "noob setting", "to easy", "no immersion" and so on. Refreshingly honest http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Just like i, up till now dont fly complete Full Reall, no icons/no externalls/cockpit on simply because my eyesight wont allow it ( i need atleast 1 of thoose noob settings ), with out it i would just fly arround aimlesly, hunting my own shadow.

I have big hopes for BoB concerning those issiues.

F6_Ace
09-13-2006, 01:46 PM
Don't get me wrong, I play a lot of co-ops that have externals enabled and it's a lot of fun and almost essential when you are flying in a large formation.

Not so many stat monkey 'F6 aces' in them, though.

I truly wish Oleg would just disable external padlock with externals on....it can't be that hard and it would just make things so much better.

Xiolablu3
09-13-2006, 02:00 PM
Are you say you never use F6, even on externals servers, Norris?

I dont see the problem. Its there, use it.

HellToupee
09-13-2006, 02:11 PM
what differnce it make anyway, with externals u can practically see everything anyway f6 or not.

F6_Ace
09-13-2006, 02:18 PM
Yes, of course I use it but nothing like how I used to in DF servers because a completely different mentality prevails. It's hard to explain unless you've been in the two environments and you know how the style of play differs.

The point is that I'd prefer to have externals ON but to NOT use F6 just as I'd prefer others NOT to use it. I do hope you can see that it just means that air combat (in particular, bnz) becomes totally unrealistic because you are effectively fitting each and every plane with some low power radar.

Yes, it overcomes the inherent problems of playing the game on a monitor & yes, you can't expect the game to be fully realistic & yes, it's anal to think that externals off is like it is in real life and yes, it overcomes graphical/icon problems but it puts certain planes at a major disadvantage (it's not so much for them) and I object to that.

Xiolablu3
09-13-2006, 02:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by F6_Ace:

The point is that I'd prefer to have externals ON but to NOT use F6 just as I'd prefer others NOT to use it. I do hope you can see that it just means that air combat (in particular, bnz) becomes totally unrealistic because you are effectively fitting each and every plane with some low power radar.

. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed, it would be great to have the option of externals with no F6. Even better to have the option of allowing padlock of just ground targets but not air.

Externals helps a lot when navigating new airfields and seeing the beautiful skins/graphics.

Hope Storm Of War gives us new options in this area.

faustnik
09-13-2006, 02:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BaronUnderpants:
Just like i, up till now dont fly complete Full Reall, no icons/no externalls/cockpit on simply because my eyesight wont allow it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, I have a terrible time with first LODs in PF. The problem is really bad with Spitfires and I-16s. Those two planes completely vanish. I will see a strong dot, then, poof, the plane is gone. So, my preference is for icons limited to first LOD distance.

Others fly the same missions and have no problems, so, it is a combination of my PC setup and my eyesight. With so many variations in setup, it's no wonder there is such a wide range of setting preference. Use whatever works for you, it should be fun, not torture. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

raaaid
09-13-2006, 02:47 PM
i find full real boring, half hour to get to the enemy, fun servers produce much more adrenaline

f6 is a bad idea i prefer outside view being able to pan, on this way you have a perspective of all enemies

Xiolablu3
09-13-2006, 02:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by raaaid:
i find full real boring, half hour to get to the enemy, fun servers produce much more adrenaline

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just remember raiid, that the results you see on a arcade server are nothing like the true capabilities of the planes.

The FW190's capabilities in particular are nerfed on those servers.

If you want to find out the true capabilities of planes lik the FW190A4/Tempest/P38/Wildcat/109F4 and so on, you need to fly in a more realistic environmet. Not a tiny 'arena' where there are 30 planes all dogfighting at low level.

When the SPitfire 25lbs appears on more realistcic servers, the Germans usually have Me262/FW190D/109K4.

I would say if you add the Spit 25lbs to a map, you should add the Me262 too. Although the FW190D is also good vs the 25lber.

OldMan____
09-13-2006, 03:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Manu-6S:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OldMan____:
Spit pilots usualy trust too much on theirs turn capability to quit on the first move bya mere FW target. Do you get what I maen? its a psicological game.

Me Spit pilot, he FW, he is making a hard turn (in fact is trying to start scissors).. I am not going to be defeated by a turning FW. So I turn.. he reverses.. done.. I am engaged and or I commit fully to it or disengage going in a completely different direction than him (a spit will never catch a FW again that started runnin in oposite direction) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes I know: infact if I'm chasing an Anton that starts to turn simply I don't follow it, but I make a lag turn to swap my speed with altitude to draw advantage from my lowspeed turning ability. After this I find myself higher, with almost same speed and same direction. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Smart move, lucky mine only 1 every 10 spitfires do so http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Brain32
09-13-2006, 06:21 PM
Open pit with a FW190 is entirely different story, I tried it against AI and I was pretty amazed, then I quickly turned WW off and got back to ugly, wrong, incorrect reallity. I am extremely dissapointed with Antons in il2, their modelling is ridiculous to the point it seems intentional...oh well...feck it...
BTW I don't use F6 even with externals enabled, I don't even have a key mapped to it, that option is beyond having a radar, it's like having a chip in your head that stimulates your "inner sense" which tells you where your opponent is - a bit too StarWars for me http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Hashmark13
09-13-2006, 07:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Brain32:
Well Spit25 can run 575km/h on the deck and it can do it using only 85% power and thus NEVER overheat. Also very small amount of damage on a FW means huge amounts of speed sawed off, even a burst of flak near the plane can take away up to 50kmh without pilot noticing any handling difference(but that's probably becasue you cant differentiate cr@p from cr@p).
BTW the kind of incompetence needed to get outturned in just about anything by a FW190A, not to mention La5 or SpitIX is beyond my imagination http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The spit 25 never overheats anyway. It might say Overheat, but it doesn't damage the engine, ever.

Try it. Full real. Go ahead.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Hashmark13
09-13-2006, 07:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by raaaid:
i find full real boring, half hour to get to the enemy, fun servers produce much more adrenaline

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just remember raiid, that the results you see on a arcade server are nothing like the true capabilities of the planes.

The FW190's capabilities in particular are nerfed on those servers.

If you want to find out the true capabilities of planes lik the FW190A4/Tempest/P38/Wildcat/109F4 and so on, you need to fly in a more realistic environmet. Not a tiny 'arena' where there are 30 planes all dogfighting at low level.

When the SPitfire 25lbs appears on more realistcic servers, the Germans usually have Me262/FW190D/109K4.

I would say if you add the Spit 25lbs to a map, you should add the Me262 too. Although the FW190D is also good vs the 25lber. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's a bit too biased to the germans, no?

The 262 is untouchable by ANY prop plane if flown correctly.

BaronUnderpants
09-14-2006, 02:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by raaaid:
i find full real boring, half hour to get to the enemy, fun servers produce much more adrenaline

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just remember raiid, that the results you see on a arcade server are nothing like the true capabilities of the planes.

The FW190's capabilities in particular are nerfed on those servers.

If you want to find out the true capabilities of planes lik the FW190A4/Tempest/P38/Wildcat/109F4 and so on, you need to fly in a more realistic environmet. Not a tiny 'arena' where there are 30 planes all dogfighting at low level.

When the SPitfire 25lbs appears on more realistcic servers, the Germans usually have Me262/FW190D/109K4.

I would say if you add the Spit 25lbs to a map, you should add the Me262 too. Although the FW190D is also good vs the 25lber. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


True, in a df server i have no problems what so ever flying Fw`s. Keep your speed up and u cant be tuched pretty much, but change one little thing like icon distances to say 1 km and its a differant story. 1 km means your opponent is more or less on top of u when u see icon and untill then u dont know if hes friend or foe. This means your options are more limited in a plane like the Fw than in a server with 5-10 km icons. Doesnt sound like a big change but i notice a big differance in how one fly and manage against ac`s one would usually concider easy targets.

And yes, i find full real a bit stale to..but thats just me. I usually have no problems seeing distant ac`s, its when i come up close like in 1 vs 1 and so on when problems start, especially if its at lower alt with less blue sky.

WOLFMondo
09-14-2006, 02:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by raaaid:
i find full real boring, half hour to get to the enemy, fun servers produce much more adrenaline

f6 is a bad idea i prefer outside view being able to pan, on this way you have a perspective of all enemies </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Then you come here and complain about planes after flying on those sorts of servers? No wonder you think the 190 is slow, if your looking around externally your not paying much attention to your AoA, which is a very bad thing in a 190.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:

Just remember raiid, that the results you see on a arcade server are nothing like the true capabilities of the planes.

The FW190's capabilities in particular are nerfed on those servers.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I disagree. On a WW or externals on server the 190's rule!! Mainly because everyone else is TnBing on the deck and don't pay attention or don't have the grey matter to realise the 190 2k above them is the thing to worry about. Tons of ammo, 1 pass kills. Perfect.

Manu-6S
09-14-2006, 03:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BaronUnderpants:
And yes, i find full real a bit stale to..but thats just me. I usually have no problems seeing distant ac`s, its when i come up close like in 1 vs 1 and so on when problems start, especially if its at lower alt with less blue sky. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And the funny thing is that Bf109s, with their old lod, are recognizable from very far. Not so easy with all the other airplanes; maybe, between these, recognizing Spit is easier since the famous wings. But if you see a squared cross in the sky be sure it's a Bf109.

Yes, some planes disappear at low altitude, over forest or blue sea (mainly the I16s).

WOLFMondo
09-14-2006, 04:56 AM
Graphics card/driver problem? The only plane I get confused with a Spit is the P47 and Tempest from a distance, becasue of the eliptical wing. From the I find them easy to make out.

Manu-6S
09-14-2006, 05:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
Graphics card/driver problem? The only plane I get confused with a Spit is the P47 and Tempest from a distance, becasue of the eliptical wing. From the I find them easy to make out. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't confuse Spit with other planes at medium - short distance: but I feel that you can recognize a Bf109 just when it changes from dot to first level lod (the smaller).

Xiolablu3
09-14-2006, 07:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:

Just remember raiid, that the results you see on a arcade server are nothing like the true capabilities of the planes.

The FW190's capabilities in particular are nerfed on those servers.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I disagree. On a WW or externals on server the 190's rule!! Mainly because everyone else is TnBing on the deck and don't pay attention or don't have the grey matter to realise the 190 2k above them is the thing to worry about. Tons of ammo, 1 pass kills. Perfect. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are right, Mondo, I havent flown on those servers (334th/AFJ) for a looong time, and in that time I have learned to fly the FW190 reasonably well. Maybe it is as good as you say.

BaronUnderpants
09-14-2006, 11:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
Graphics card/driver problem? The only plane I get confused with a Spit is the P47 and Tempest from a distance, becasue of the eliptical wing. From the I find them easy to make out. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


A graphics card problem can be helped, but sadly my problem is with my eyes...colour blindness to be exact. Making out a camo ac against for ex forest ground is many times impossible for me, even more so at close range ( long distances ac tend to be just a black spot = no problem ) Even if there are icons at say 500m that doesnt help since red icons against green/brown background completly dissepears in my case.

So i think there are more to it in many cases when it comes to arcade gamers vs full real, than just taking the easy way out. Graphics issues, pc performance, internet connection, eyesight, level of action one whant and so on. Not just a noob thing.

BAG.LordDante
09-15-2006, 07:51 AM
Full real !
Every thing else sucks