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darkhorizon11
02-10-2007, 02:24 PM
No sarcasm or animosity insisted, I'm very pleased with the IL-10 and 46 addons along with 4.08. But since no official word was released with the patch about the future of FBPF, whats the score? Theres still some aircraft unaccounted for and a some mapmakers that have been diligently working away...

If this is the end, then thats fine its been a great run and I look forward to BoB, but at the same time I was surprised that nobody from the top posted about the status of the series since theres been no mention of any patches beyond 4.08... thoughts? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

darkhorizon11
02-10-2007, 02:24 PM
No sarcasm or animosity insisted, I'm very pleased with the IL-10 and 46 addons along with 4.08. But since no official word was released with the patch about the future of FBPF, whats the score? Theres still some aircraft unaccounted for and a some mapmakers that have been diligently working away...

If this is the end, then thats fine its been a great run and I look forward to BoB, but at the same time I was surprised that nobody from the top posted about the status of the series since theres been no mention of any patches beyond 4.08... thoughts? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

rnzoli
02-10-2007, 02:38 PM
Korea was mentioned, as the secret project from RRG studios.

You didn't think it would get any better, did you? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

JG52Karaya-X
02-10-2007, 02:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rnzoli:
Korea was mentioned, as the secret project from RRG studios.

You didn't think it would get any better, did you? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yea, but that sim will use the BoB:SoW engine!

Philipscdrw
02-10-2007, 03:18 PM
Yeah, I want to know - is 4.08 the final 'final' patch for FB? Or is there still the prospect of a rocket-firing Mosquito and the Fokker D.XXI?

Edit: Wait, there's the Slovakia map, which I assume is still on course for completion and inclusion... so I expect there will be a 4.09...

RCAF_Irish_403
02-10-2007, 05:08 PM
CrazyIvan strongely hinted that this is not TeH eNd http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

MEGILE
02-10-2007, 05:13 PM
I can assure you this is not the end

Jupiter is in orbit around the zodiac, and mars is inline with my glass of water

it all points to 4.09m

ploughman
02-10-2007, 05:14 PM
It ain't over till the Mk XIV says it's over.

XyZspineZyX
02-10-2007, 05:20 PM
4.08 was the last planned official patch

4.071 was not official, yes? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

There are planes and map unaccounted for, as mentioned. Also, Oleg hinted that maybe things would still continue unoffcially after the last unoffcial patch. It was a hint, not a promise or oath

We got 4.08 last week. I'm curious, when "THE END" comes, what's the plans of many players? From this thread and others, I get the feeling that they will stop playing. Why? I saw this with an online racing sim I used to play. It was always "new new new new new new stuff, gimme new stuff gimme new stuff gimme new stuff gimme gimme" or players complained they were "bored"

Personally I thought they were a bunch of morons that needed a New Shiney every two weeks or their ADD kicked in...

There is constant activity from the community concerning older material still being made..new skins, new scenarios, new servers with new options...you folks can't possibly have exhausted the breadth of material in the sim.

BoB will not spring forth from the Bosom of Maddox fully mature and developed. It will be years before we get the amount of content 46 gives us. There's years of life in the sim

major_setback
02-10-2007, 05:20 PM
Oleg has been asking around if anyone is willing to carry the ball (take over) for a while....


Oleg: " And if someone of very experience developers would like to sign with us agreement for support "in flight" IL-2 series for a very long time, then they should work with our source code themselves without good support from our side and to keep strong rules of online compatibility of the series " we are totally busy with BoB development. I'm thinking it is a good chance for someone to be a part of flight sim industry!"


From this interview.

http://www.simhq.com/_air7/air_250a.html

Akronnick
02-10-2007, 05:29 PM
...And in The End...
The Love you take...
Is equal to the Love...
You Make.

jarink
02-10-2007, 05:36 PM
This is the end
Beautiful friend
This is the end
My only friend, the end

Of our elaborate plans, the end
Of everything that stands, the end
No safety or surprise, the end
I'll never look into your eyes...again

Akronnick
02-10-2007, 06:25 PM
This is not The End...
This is not the Beginning of The End...
It is only the End of the Beginning.

carguy_
02-10-2007, 06:35 PM
Wouldn`t be worried bout that.

I can complain just about anything if I want but as for show stoppers I find none.The game has so much more life left in it.

Only thing I see happening now is ppl leaving and waiting for BoB and it worries me.Ppl expect too much of BoB.

Yeah I agree BoB will be soooo much better.....maybe for the first month.

Then back to IL2 waiting for Gustav to be born in BoB again!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/inlove.gif

Akronnick
02-10-2007, 06:44 PM
The only thing that will truly kill this sim (other than an asteroid striking the planet and wiping out Civilization as we know it) is if Micro$oft comes out with a dazzling new operating system that fulfils our wildest dreams, ushers in world peace, cures cancer and gives everyone a flying car, but doesn't run Il-2. That would be a sad day indeed.

GreyFox5
02-10-2007, 06:51 PM
Stop Flying - NEVER!

If this is the last change/patch/map so I'm good maybe I'll fly the offline stuff that I never really played. I mean with all the maps there are really endless things you can do.

The new maps are excellent! And the couple of COOPs that I've flown on the Desert Online and Italy Online were well done. So no I won't stop flying and I don't think that many will stop flying this sim.

Ken_Det
02-10-2007, 06:54 PM
Ok Prime Minister http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Lets all hope so http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Akronnick:
This is not The End...
This is not the Beginning of The End...
It is only the End of the Beginning. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

XyZspineZyX
02-10-2007, 07:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jarink:
This is the end
Beautiful friend
This is the end
My only friend, the end

Of our elaborate plans, the end
Of everything that stands, the end
No safety or surprise, the end
I'll never look into your eyes...again </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

next you'll tell me that the killer awoke before dawn and put his boots on

LC34
02-10-2007, 11:46 PM
Im not worried if this is "the end." If it is I am more than happy with what we have all recieved and the support in both add ons and free patches that have come our way.

But with the fact that everyone has said (and come to grips with) that maybe this could be the end. What happens after?

I know BOB is coming, and I know that it will receive the same support as IL-2 has gotten. Thats a fact, but when IL-2 becomes secondary to BOB, what do we all do besides BOB. I know I will play both and I know most others will. Will you feel a sense of loss when IL-2 is no more? Or will you feel happy for BOB? Both I assume. Just something to ponder.

I for one cant wait to move on, but when I do; I will be sad. May need to have a funeral not to celebrate the death of IL-2, but its wonderful life.

Instead of flowers, please send money to BOB! To the new age of sims! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

madsarmy
02-11-2007, 01:55 AM
When they finally stop patching & updating, Ubi will then get us to buy it all over again when they release the Complete & Ultimate 46 DVD.

ytareh
02-11-2007, 03:37 AM
The only real glaring ommision (imo) is a Spit Mk1....Theres easily another year or twos life in this sim and it will probably need it until BOB arrives.....Maybe the Mk1 is deliberately being witheld to whet our appetites for BOB...(conspiracy theory?!)

ploughman
02-11-2007, 03:50 AM
I think so Ytareh, that and the MTO appear to be are pretty much off limits. Hence the 'creative' maps for those theatres that we have at the moment.

My computer's so dire that I can't play Il-2 anywhere near to its fullest potential, most missions are just too much for my creaking stalwart so come BoB, when I get a new machine, a fully playable Il-2 will just be begining for me. I would've like an XIV though. Just an old man staring into the fire and wishing...

domenlovrec
02-11-2007, 03:55 AM
It hurts to set you free
But you'll never follow me
The end of laughter and soft lies
The end of nights we tried to die

The end my beloved Sturmovik.

XyZspineZyX
02-11-2007, 06:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LC34:
Im not worried if this is "the end." If it is I am more than happy with what we have all recieved and the support in both add ons and free patches that have come our way.

But with the fact that everyone has said (and come to grips with) that maybe this could be the end. What happens after?

I know BOB is coming, and I know that it will receive the same support as IL-2 has gotten. Thats a fact, but when IL-2 becomes secondary to BOB, what do we all do besides BOB. I know I will play both and I know most others will. Will you feel a sense of loss when IL-2 is no more? Or will you feel happy for BOB? Both I assume. Just something to ponder.

I for one cant wait to move on, but when I do; I will be sad. May need to have a funeral not to celebrate the death of IL-2, but its wonderful life.

Instead of flowers, please send money to BOB! To the new age of sims! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Click this link:

http://forum.rscnet.org/forumdisplay.php?s=57dc1fe262e0...6798f983df2ff01&f=36 (http://forum.rscnet.org/forumdisplay.php?s=57dc1fe262e0adc6a6798f983df2ff0 1&f=36)

I don't know why so may forums there are locked, but check the dates. they use the system of mm-dd-yy by the way, so today is 11-2-07

That forum is for a simulation that lost it's support in 1998. That was 9 years ago. That simulation had no tools at all for user-made ANYthing when released. No skinning tools or even a way to view a skin with the software on your PC, no track-making tools, no performance tracking tools, nothing. It was all made by the sim community

Philipscdrw
02-11-2007, 06:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ytareh:
The only real glaring ommision (imo) is a Spit Mk1....Theres easily another year or twos life in this sim and it will probably need it until BOB arrives.....Maybe the Mk1 is deliberately being witheld to whet our appetites for BOB...(conspiracy theory?!) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Not a conspiracy theory - this is what 1C have openly said!

I don't think the Spit Mk1 is a glaring omission, because there's lots of early RAF stuff which is also omitted. What can be used in 1940 by the RAF with FB 4.08? The Hurricane Mk1, the Blenheim, the A20C. Not a very complete planeset for the RAF!

The Fokker D.XXI is a glaring omission, because (according to people who know this stuff) it's the only missing Finnish fighter.

F19_Ob
02-11-2007, 07:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by darkhorizon11:
If this is the end, then thats fine its been a great run and I look forward to BoB, but at the same time I was surprised that nobody from the top posted about the status of the series since theres been no mention of any patches beyond 4.08... thoughts? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not sure there is the word "end" in the Olegian vocabulary.

A wiser person than I said "it ain't over until the fat lady sings."

PLANEMAD
02-11-2007, 08:09 AM
"two weeks" till 4.09M http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif what about putting some heavy bombers into the sim??

Flying_Nutcase
02-11-2007, 08:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LC34:
I for one cant wait to move on, but when I do; I will be sad. May need to have a funeral not to celebrate the death of IL-2, but its wonderful life.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ditto to that. Sturmi will always be in our hearts, even when not on our hard drives. Oh to think of the day when the Uninstall button is clicked. Hard to imagine!

LC34
02-11-2007, 01:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BBB462cid:
That forum is for a simulation that lost it's support in 1998. That was 9 years ago. That simulation had no tools at all for user-made ANYthing when released. No skinning tools or even a way to view a skin with the software on your PC, no track-making tools, no performance tracking tools, nothing. It was all made by the sim community
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh believe me I don't doubt that many of us will still play this game yet and maybe there will be updates like that. I still play EAW on occasion because of the fantastic user created add-ons that have been built.

Only problem is I dont play it often because of the wonderful sim we play now. Which is what I see myself doing with IL-2 once BOB is released.

TgD Thunderbolt56
02-11-2007, 01:42 PM
I'll still play this one because I have so many tracks that I can only watch in it that it'll have to stay on my machine.

Friendly_flyer
02-11-2007, 04:03 PM
I think I have flown perhaps a third of the planes in this sim, at best. There's a lot of the Axis stuff I have hardly tuched. I won't call ut quits until I have flown it all.

fordfan25
02-11-2007, 05:31 PM
most of the onliners i think will keep playing at the very least till BoB is out and a good number im sure will keep playing for long while after BOB.

DmdSeeker
02-11-2007, 06:16 PM
So IL-2 is facing it's end of the road. Boohoo.

Been there, done that.

Here's a few words that precis the end of the road; and the new begining better than I could do it; from Blue Baron; the grand daddy of the grand daddy of on-line flight sims.

The more things change; the more they stay the same.
From: "Blue Baron"
Subject: My Eulogy for Air Warrior (Please excuse its extreme length)
Date: Saturday, December 08, 2001 6:52 PM

As you can imagine, it has taken me a couple of days to settle down after the other night. This was the second funeral I've attended for Air Warrior, the first being the death of the so-called DOS host in 1995 - the end of the game's Golden Age, and the end to its uniqueness in the online medium. This was the death of the Air Warrior I knew - the one that inspired Hitech and Killer to go off and create Confirmed Kill, and the one HT doggedly sought, with success, to recapture in Aces High.

Although I remain immensely proud of our subsequent efforts, taking Air Warrior to Windows, to AOL, to DirectX, and Direct3D, all of us have our own Golden Age for online gaming. That is the time of discovery and amazement, of embarrassment and of unexpected acts of kindness. It is the time we first learn how weak mainstream entertainment is, as we realize it was talking down to us all those years. In online, the audience is the medium - it is a narrative, told by the audience. And the quality of that experience is different if this person or that is present, or not - if any one of us is present or not. We discover aspects of ourselves that would lay dormant otherwise, but we are unaware of the profound effect this is having on us until later.

I fit the profile with one exception that I'll get into later. I grew up obsessed with aircraft. Had my first airplane ride at age 4, going up with my uncle Bob in his Cub. I recall every detail, as he had me climb up on his lap and said, "Johnny, you have to take over." But my father had to put an end to that. My uncle Bob had been shot down in the Pacific and became a POW. Upon his release he drank steadily for the following 40 years until his death. I would only learn later that, of the POWs held by the Japanese, only ten percent of the pilots survived the war. Not understanding things like torture or alcoholism, every night I'd hold the covers up against my knees, pretending the blanket in front of me was the panel of a cockpit. I figured that if I focused on flying World War I airplanes as I drifted off to sleep, I would dream I was flying them. Occasionally that tactic would work. Disabled at age 17, flying would remain a dream deferred for over twenty years.

Where I did not fit the profile concerns my politics. Liberal is too weak a term to describe them. Treated unfairly due to a disability that, practically speaking, is largely irrelevant, I began to notice all the other irrelevant reasons people are treated badly. For a time I simply drifted. I dropped out of college in 1972 and thumbed my way here and there, stopping when I ran out of money to get whatever minimum wage job I could get. I landed in Boulder, Colorado and, although I cold sit on my hair at the time, I found the counter culture elements more amusing than anything else. I slept in the furnace room of a house to keep my rent down to a month - no easy task given that there was a musician couple upstairs, and they had all-night libidos. I didn't know what the **** I was doing with my life or why. As I watched Nixon resign on television, some friends of mine from Massachusetts phoned to tell me they had arranged a job for me in as a lab tech at a photo studio - one of the few marketable skills I possessed.

Shortly after returning, I met my first love, settled down....some, went back to school, and found myself focusing on the only two things I could stand that UMass/Boston offered: writing, and Medieval history. It was here I changed, going from someone angry over the way I was treated, to someone angry over the way so many people were treated. I joined the United Slate - an ultra left wing student group composed of expatriates from Latin America, some black kids from poor families, and a couple of bleeding heart white kids - and ran for student office. Having broken up with that gal who'd helped me put my life back together (her parents were Holocaust survivors and didn't take kindly to their only daughter getting serious about a one legged half-Jew), I'd met this rather dazzling Italian woman who made a sandwich sign promoting my candidacy, and roller skated around the campus. I was the only member of the United Slate elected...amazing, given how completely full of **** I was.

After school I married the gal, and made a meager living as a journalist. The relationship went south, as did I, to become a member of Barney Frank's Washington staff. This was during the height of the Reagan Revolution. No social programs or reforms were on the agenda. So I left the Hill after a few years and became a freelance writer. If you're wondering why I'm telling you all this, it will eventually become clear. My apologies to those of you who have fallen asleep

In 1989 I read an ad in Omni Magazine. "You can be dogfighting with people from all over North America tonight!" the ad read. Holy ****!! I guess there was a good reason why my brother had included an modem with the computer he built for me - up to that time it had served primarily as an expensive bottle of White Out. Somehow I figured out how to logon to GEnie, typed the keyword "Air" and had no clue what to do next. It was all text. One line proclaimed "13 members in flight." Wow - thirteen....got to get in there....but how? There was a software library, but no notes on how to get started. There was software for computers I'd never heard of - Amiga, Atari, as well as one I had heard of but I thought was silly: the Macintosh. I fired off an angry letter (there was a Feedback item on the menu) and left. I received a nicer than I expected reply that they were working on a version for the IBM PC and would have a beta version available the following year. That sucked.

When it did arrive the readme was filled with disdain for IBM....its limited amount of available RAM, poor available graphics, and so forth, along with the name of an obscure sound card manufacturer that made a product capable of playing digital sounds. I downloaded the front end using Xmodem, I believe, and unpacked it. When I ran it there was a picture of a Mustang sitting there on my screen. Er...now what do I do? After some stumbling around I managed to bring up a screen where I was to type ATDT followed by the local GEnie access number. At least there was a script to get me to "Air" (page 870) and get me into the game....sort of.

"You are now in General Conference room 1." Oh boy - imagine that....now what? People were occasionally coming and going, many with all sorts of strange names and characters surrounding them. Having no idea what to do next, and no idea how to leave, I turned off my computer, logged back in using my regular communication software, and ordered the manual. Therein were reveal many mysteries: type /ros to get a roster, /goto [airfield number] to...well....you know, /p [plane number] to select an airplane, /fly to....fly.

Well, not really. I had to figure out how to start the engine, get up, get the gear up, and master a variety of command sequences. First flight was from Cland in the south on a terrain known for its principle feature, Iron Bottom Sound. Bland was to the west, Aland, with its blue color, was far to the north....must be cold up there. Two enemies were approaching....I guess. Dots became either upside down or right side up Ts or sideways Vs. meant the aircraft was maneuvering in the indicated direction. T meant it was gaining altitude relative to you, and the upside down T meant the opposite. Suddenly these became crude 3D shapes and I saw a little B17 box on the bottom of my screen, along with scrolling numbers to one side. Then came a FW box. I headed for the B17 shape.

As I fired, strange Xs began to sprout from it. Eventually I saw "A kill has been recorded." This I did not understand. For whom was this kill recorded? It took awhile to realize that I had gotten a kill. It would be weeks until I got another. As I was primarily interested in World War I, I gave myself the handle, Blue Baron. Frustrated by dying all the time, and not understanding why or how, I tried the WWI arena. This was when Fencer first noticed me - as the idiot flying alone in the WWI arena. He told me that no one was there. So back I went to WWII. Frustrated again, I uttered a string of explicatives on channel 1 (I didn't know about the other channels yet). This brought me to the attention of a DoKtOr GoNzo, and his buddy Vermin. They took me aside and began to show me how to do things. I flew as an observer in Vermin's Focke Wulf as he and DoK basically *** raped a number of hapless victims.

Some bailed out before Vermin opened fire. This I did not understand. There was a strange scoring system in place called Elo, named after the person who created it to rank chess players. You began with an ELO of 1000. If you killed people with a lower ELO, yours did not improve. To get a higher rank you had to kill folks with a higher ELO. This explained why you'd often see, at the conclusion of a dogfight among high ranking players, the remaining ones bail out immediately to avoid getting killed by a lowly Johnny-come-lately - one of many remaining mysteries to this most mysterious game. There was another scoring system running as well, that gave you mission scores based on a bizarre formula taking in account streaks of successful sorties without dying, whether you kills were scored over friendly or enemy territory, and so forth.

Vermin then took me for a ride as a gunner on a bomber, then as a gunner on a tank. A Pacific Theater had recently been introduced, and you could play havoc from the Jeep shacks if you knew where the bridges were. In the middle of one of these ground sorties, I saw DoK overhead, limping back home in a smoking A26. "How did he survive a dogfight in a bomber?" I asked Verm. "DoK's been playing a long time," he replied. The sense of awe I felt for DoK at that moment was indescribable.

Slowly I began to catch on and, although I became a respectable dogfighter, I was never an elite one. I joined DoK's 4Q squad and promptly received an email from Robert at Kesmai, noting that they were disturbed by my choice. I had sent so much enthusiastic email to Kesmai that they regarded me as one of the good guys. It was not until much later that I learned about the lingering feud between DoK's crowd and Kesmai.

In 1991, nearly one year after I began playing Air Warrior, I finally summoned up the nerve to post on the boards. Up until that time, I read them avidly, and printed out every word in what eventually became a document as thick as the phone book for Queens. In the spring of that year I arranged to meet the Kesmai crew at the annual GEnie Syscon that was held in nearby Rockville, Maryland. At the table were Kelton, John Taylor, Keith Young (John Gomez - a very good player), Ariel Butler (Anvil - the only player DoK ever said he feared), and Mongoose (Anvil's long time wingman). Keith, Ariel, and I would eventually end up working at Kesmai. My love of Air Warrior had become an obsession by this time, and I offered to put together the 1991 AW Con in D.C.

In the meantime, Air Warrior became part of the rhythm of my life. Sunday mornings featured a small gaggle of early risers, Fubars and a few Warhawks mostly. The Muskies I assumed were too hung over, as they rarely turned up before noon or so. A code of honor existed during those mornings. If I smoked Hoppy or Phoenix, I'd let them go - the battle had been decided, no point in finishing the guy off. Weekend nights featured the principle squadron rivalries. Some of the older squads, such as the DFA and the 4Q were waning. Others, such as the Musketeers, the NME, and the Gunfighters were coming into their own, and some older squads, such as the Fubars and the Damned, kept on going despite time.

The Muskies were formed in 1990 by Doug Barnett, a veteran game designer and a fellow who truly looked the part. The Warhawks reflected the personality of their CO, Fencer (Kenneth Cook) - an enormously kind soul who nonetheless was an excellent role player, with an online persona every bit as blustery as he'd imagined the COs of WWII were. Each country seemed to take on a certain personality. Bland, home of the Gunfighters and the Warhawks, were seen as the anal organized country. Aland had more of the free wheeling aces, which is why the Muskies defected emasse to there. Cland was more the colorful souls. The Fubars, run by the singularly eccentric Volstag, were a goofy but capable bunch, regularly awarding the Croix de Fu to members for usually bizarre reasons. Hoppy and Pho were brothers who, at one time, has actually owned a P38. Hop was a distinguished Psychologist in real life, and Phoenix was a successful businessman. Vol was a teenager. The NME were a rather dark bunch, let by Mullah. There was one unifying code in Cland - you always took off with eggs, and sometimes a Cland squad would win the bombing title having never flown a bomber.

There were certain unwritten laws in the game. One was that you never - I mean NEVER - complained about another player to Kesmai. Lady Jenny of Fubar violated this rule and complained to Kesmai about something Verm said to her. We all thought it had to have been the "C" word but it didn't matter. Verm was my buddy, DoK was on hiatus, and so I felt the duty fell to me to set things right. I'll never quite know how, but when I took off the evening afterward, everyone in the arena knew what I'd come to do. I was a Warhawk then, took off from Bland. As I approached the Atoll, Sloth - an Alander said on channel 1, "We won't stop you, BB." "Come on, Blander," Mullah said. I overflew a formation of Cs and dove in. How the hell I knew which one was Jen I'll never know, but I saddled up on one and blew it away. Jen's tail number came up as shot down. Mullah pinged me once and said, "Now be on your way, Blander."

The 1991 AW Con was attended by 36 folks. We had eight computers set up in the flying room. The big PC title that year was Wing Commander II. In the spring of that year, Kelton release Air Warrior version 2, which was the debut of what would be called Strat, along with a new Europe map replacing Iron Bottom sound. And something amazing was in the works.

As Charlottesville was only 2.5 hours from my home at the time, I'd paid a visit before the Con and was shown a project which had been under wraps for the past year. Fujitsu was enamored of Air Warrior and wanted it for their FM Towns computer in Japan (basically a 386/16 with SVGA graphics, a good sound system - for its time - and a CD ROM in one package). What they said, in essence, was, "We want Air Warrior, but we want it to look nice." Up until this time there were no artists on the Kesmai staff. All cockpit art was created by the players using tools Kesmai provided. Much of it was so-called "cheat art" - art that created slits here and there to help you aim where you shouldn't be able to. At runtime the front end checked to make sure that at least 80 percent of the prescribed art area was filled. When I saw an Air Warrior with real art and production values higher than anything on the market at the time....well....you can imagine how I felt. In the fall of that year a small group of beta testers were signed up, I amongst them.

It's difficult to impart to you what a leap this was. There were no SVGA flight sims out there. Suddenly your tracers looked real, the Ts and upside down Ts, and the sideways Vs gave way to plane shapes that grew in complexity as they approached. And the sound effects - all digital, back when most PC titles employed MIDI.

Yet there was something tragic about the 1992 AW Con in LA. By then folks had a good idea what was coming - a box version to be released for Christmas; one that didn't take a new user months to understand what was happening on his screen. Mullah and GMan hosted the Con that year. Mullah sulked in the hospitality suite. "We won't matter anymore," he said, a sentiment echoed elsewhere at the Con as the prospect of this tight little community, where you paid your dues and obeyed the rules, was about to be assaulted by thousands of party crashers. "But we'll be like god to them!" I said. Though this brought a laugh, it was not entirely true. I too sensed that the Air Warrior I knew was about to come to an end.

Kesmai asked me to write the manual for SVGA Air Warrior. With a lump in my throat I gathered up my fat collection of forum print outs. I had to honor these guys, and I spent many hours culling distinctive quotes that could serve as tips for new players. How could this be? How could so much emotion well up in me from this dogfighting game. Why the hell didn't I know then how much they mattered to me, how much was happening in that arena, night after night. It was more than a game - it was a dream, and not simply my dream of aviation. In that virtual world all that mattered was your conduct, and by your conduct alone were you judged. All those irrelevant reasons people were treated badly in the physical realm, at long last, didn't matter. This had been the dream of my life, not merely a fanciful notion to fly. But the most important lesson was that the human heart cannot know the difference between emotion felt in the virtual world or the physical one. Thus, this was more than a dream. It was keenly and profoundly real.

Meanwhile Kesmai thought I'd been screwing around with my time. They asked that I come to Charlottesville to finish the manual there. This was my introduction to crunch time, as all of us worked 16 hour days, seven days a week until it shipped. The ten THOUsand dweebs came and, gradually, the old timers left. When Kesmai hired me that fall, I was getting some angry letters regarding the folks I quoted in the manual. Some claimed I made them up or, if they were real, I should not have used them. "We don't see these guys up," was the common thread. Didn't matter. I'd done my duty.

But there was more to do. Figuring that each generation of Air Warriors was just as special to them, as mine were to me, I began a tradition of naming airfields after players. What was now old Europe had names of players who f lew in Campaign One. I knew we'd need fresh terrains, and each would reflect the generation that came just before it. In May of 1994 we were acquired by NewsCorp, however, and thus began a series of challenges that ultimately so compromised development control over Air Warrior as to lead to its demise just two days ago. There would be enormous victories nonetheless, but the key to everything - advancing the medium in which Air Warrior existed - would be blocked at every turn, and MUDs ended up killing the MMO simulation.

What was clear to me at the time was that nuisance realism - by that I mean non-tactical realism - would only lead to attracting an ever narrowing market. It's the community, stupid, but community formation is serendipitous when thousands, not hundreds, are playing. Micro-community was the key. How do you create a game that makes the griefers and *******s leave in disgust, while accelerating the development of relationships? Stripped bare, the mechanics are simple. You have a managed conflict engine that produces stimulating stress. We cannot alter our reaction to stress anymore than we can alter our fingerprints. Amidst this managed conflict, relationship development is accelerated. We really do get an amazingly accurate picture of who people truly are in short order. There is good stress - the stress of battle on comprehendible terms - and bad stress: acts of griefers and jerk offs. How do you filter for the former, and strain out the latter?

At the time I thought it would come down to one grand experiment. I was told we had an enormous server on loan, and that I should create something that would use it to test the latest version of our host libraries. Thus became the most successful and yet the most obscure experiment in online gaming history: Big Week. No solo player role; group based play only. Come one, come all. The software and online time are free. If you're not a fighter pilot you can certainly serve as crew on a bomber. No pick a plane and fly. You choose a side, you choose a group, and you hang out with your group during the countdown with your mission on the board. During that time, vets counsel newbees, and all launch together.

Mission after mission they came. Many served on buffs, flying an hour or more praying to god that nothing happened - entertained by suspense, and the chatter of their fellow crew members. In the first missions, all of them died but night after night the same crew would return. In the entire time only one griefer incident comes to mind: a buff gunner shooting at friendly buffs, it's pilot banking out of the formation before too much damage was done.

And the fights! I recall one evening leading 30 or so RHC Spits while GB lead 40 or so buffs across the Channel. In comes the Luftwaffe and, with them, the most intense air battle I'd ever seen in all my years in AW begins. The sky is filled with tracers coming from all those bombers, the interceptors, the escort. I rtbed with Axeman. "Hey BB, wasn't that the most amazing thing?" "Nothing like it, Axe." And the newsgroup remains, albeit with a few moves. Yet this defining experiment meant nothing to those above us. Never having the chance at a clean sheet of paper, never having the money to do more than rev the product, and having the autos screwed up entirely by management, Big Week remains the high point and the nadir of Air Warrior.

In the end, Air Warrior was so far ahead of its time that it never got the recognition it deserved. That went to its imitators. It clearly changed my life and gave me the one career I believe in as strongly now as I did when I realized its importance, writing the SVGA manual in 1992. It taught me what the online medium is, and what potential remains.

Although I've been a nomad since I left Kesmai, I will always be from Kesmai, and I will always be an Air Warrior. In the end, I will find a way to move this medium to new levels and larger audiences but I will never understand an audience, down to the bone, the way I've understood Air Warriors. I will go to my grave with vivid recollections of the fights, the mirth, the unexpected closeness to people I would never have had the privilege to know otherwise: the one place I have found in my life where only my actions and character mattered: where I realized my most precious of all my dreams.

{Salute}

BB

Philipscdrw
02-11-2007, 06:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PLANEMAD:
"two weeks" till 4.09M http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif what about putting some heavy bombers into the sim?? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is the TB-3 not heavy enough for you? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif probably not, to be honest - it carries five tonnes of bombs but flies like a Tiger Moth...

AKA_TAGERT
02-11-2007, 06:35 PM
Never say Never

darkhorizon11
02-11-2007, 08:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ytareh:
The only real glaring ommision (imo) is a Spit Mk1....Theres easily another year or twos life in this sim and it will probably need it until BOB arrives.....Maybe the Mk1 is deliberately being witheld to whet our appetites for BOB...(conspiracy theory?!) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats exactly why its being witheld. Originally BoB was supposed to be an addon for FBPF.

crazyivan1970
02-11-2007, 08:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by darkhorizon11:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ytareh:
The only real glaring ommision (imo) is a Spit Mk1....Theres easily another year or twos life in this sim and it will probably need it until BOB arrives.....Maybe the Mk1 is deliberately being witheld to whet our appetites for BOB...(conspiracy theory?!) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats exactly why its being witheld. Originally BoB was supposed to be an addon for FBPF. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That`s a quiet a statement there. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

swambast
02-11-2007, 08:51 PM
Well, I don't know what's gonna happen, man, but I wanna have my kicks before the whole IL-2 series goes up in flames...Alright!

repoman11
02-11-2007, 09:02 PM
People are still playing Jane's WW-2 Fighters, and making mods for the same. I still like to take 'ol Jane's for a spin every once in a while. And look how long it has been since it had any official support.

I think Il2 has a long future ahead of it.

TAW_Oilburner
02-11-2007, 09:12 PM
I know a large part of the community will not consider leaving IL2 until there are Pacific carrier operations in the SOW series. Given the history of that endeavor, I see IL2 living for quite some time.

ojcar1971
02-12-2007, 06:17 AM
Not end, be sure!!! Still playing Red Baron 3D (heavily modded), so....

Bearcat99
02-12-2007, 10:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ytareh:
The only real glaring ommision (imo) is a Spit Mk1....Theres easily another year or twos life in this sim and it will probably need it until BOB arrives.....Maybe the Mk1 is deliberately being witheld to whet our appetites for BOB...(conspiracy theory?!) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree that the Spit Mk1 is an omission.. but considering BoB I understand why.... IMO the Avenger is the biggest glaring omission. The Avenger was the premier USN torp bomber.... it should have been in PF. Of course I am not loosing sleep over it. I think a lot of the vets from IL2 take this kind of stuff in stride better than many of the newcomers... or the post FB crowd. I say this often... but I think it is still relevant considering.

I remember whenwe had to simulate B-17s with Pe-8s... and there were no Mustnags, Spits,P-40s,P-47s,Tempests,late 109s,Zekes,Oscars,Tonys,Lightnings,carriers,wetser n Europe... desert,magnificent water full clouds... and the list goes on....

So to me.... what we have though not "complete" in the sense of covering every theater fully.... is more complete in terms of what I want out of a flight sim overall than anything else around or in the immediate future. Even Bob which promises to raise the bar considerably, will still be lacking due to the limited theater & planeset... so untill I get the BoB equivalent or close.. to what I now have with FB 4.08... I'll be flying around here and still enjoying it. Even if there is nothing more forthcoming.

major_setback
02-12-2007, 10:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by repoman11:
People are still playing Jane's WW-2 Fighters, and making mods for the same. I still like to take 'ol Jane's for a spin every once in a while. And look how long it has been since it had any official support.

I think Il2 has a long future ahead of it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, I like that game too. Unfortunately I can only get it to work on an older computer running Windows 98. Do you know if there's a fix so it will work in XP?

jarink
02-12-2007, 05:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by repoman11:
People are still playing Jane's WW-2 Fighters, and making mods for the same. I still like to take 'ol Jane's for a spin every once in a while. And look how long it has been since it had any official support. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I just installed it on an old PIII-677 for my little boy to play. He loves it!

repoman11
02-12-2007, 07:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by major_setback:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by repoman11:
People are still playing Jane's WW-2 Fighters, and making mods for the same. I still like to take 'ol Jane's for a spin every once in a while. And look how long it has been since it had any official support.

I think Il2 has a long future ahead of it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, I like that game too. Unfortunately I can only get it to work on an older computer running Windows 98. Do you know if there's a fix so it will work in XP? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've never had an issue with Jane's and XP. It installs, boots, and plays just fine for me.

There is a forum dedicated to Jane's WW-2F, http://www.ww2fighters.org/ Lots of great mods.

drizz01
02-12-2007, 09:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by major_setback:
Oleg has been asking around if anyone is willing to carry the ball (take over) for a while....


Oleg: " And if someone of very experience developers would like to sign with us agreement for support "in flight" IL-2 series for a very long time, then they should work with our source code themselves without good support from our side and to keep strong rules of online compatibility of the series " we are totally busy with BoB development. I'm thinking it is a good chance for someone to be a part of flight sim industry!"
] </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I NOMINATE TAGERT!

repoman11
02-14-2007, 08:52 PM
Those of you who still have Jane's will want to dig it up when Rammjager finishes his rebuild of the P-38. Take a look at the previews, http://ww2fighters.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=3230&st=30

ddpairborne59
02-14-2007, 10:35 PM
I loved that game,I still have it on a p3 and still holds its own for its time frame.
Unreal that their still making mods for it.
Oh, yes it definitly works with win xp also.

Manu-6S
02-15-2007, 03:53 AM
I'll play Il2 until SoW will be released, from then I'll remove it to not reinstall anymore.

Why?

Because I want really to feel the tech progress like a real pilots.

Breeze147
02-15-2007, 06:27 AM
I foresee no end to my playing IL-2. All of the fantastic user made offline campaigns will keep me going for years to come. And the stock campaigns are not nearly as bad as people make them out to be. I would love to see the B-24 and A-26 just for the heck of it. If it doesn't happen....

I don't know if this is a comparison, but I was very deeply involved in PGA 2000. There were incredibly accurate user made courses. You would feel your heart pounding entering Amen Corner at Augusta. Along came EA's Tiger Woods and a lot of people abandoned PGA 2000 to get the new technology. But PGA 2000 keeps chugging along, with new courses coming out all of the time.

Look at Jane's F/A-18. Everyone said LOMAC would kill that, but I believe it to be stronger than ever with the TSH mods. There are still lots of people playing Mig Alley, for gosh sakes!

I think it will be a long, long time before IL-2 draws it's last breath.

darkhorizon11
02-15-2007, 06:18 PM
I think I was largely mistaken in this thread. Of course I will play FB for mannyyyy years to come too. What I was infering was developer support for input and I was asking what everyone thought about 4.08 being the final patch for the sim. Correct me if I'm wrong I hang around here a lot but I haven't seen any mention of a 4.09 by Oleg. Of course theres plenty of speculation, but no word has come from the top about the future of the sim period since 46 was released.