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View Full Version : Problem convincing UBI to develop the R6 we want...



bdr41
03-27-2006, 04:20 PM
It seems clear that there is a large base of Rainbow Six fans that all want the same thing: a return to deeper, more tactical & realistic gameplay.

Even though we continually shout out our desires to Ubi, getting them to fully embrace our wants might be a problem.

Why? Obviously they are in the business to make money. You'd be a fool to expect anything else. And there's nothing wrong with that -- it's how the world works. Fortunately, creating a quality product helps achieve success, so there is a built-in incentive to please your audience.

However, somehow Ubisoft has to believe that listening to our requests will result in lots of $.

This is where it becomes an uphill climb in my opinion.

I believe that the next Rainbow 6 should take its cues from 'The Regiment' -- from its deep training section, to the CQB squad tactics involved, to the realistic emphasis on speed, surprise, and violence of action in a CT mission.

However, is 'The Regiment' a big hit -- something Ubi can look to as an example of being rewarded for providing the type of game we're asking for? I don't know for a fact, but I doubt it. It wasn't even released in the USA, and it seems to be a minor cult favorite at best (someone correct me if I'm wrong).

At the same time, we continually plead for them not to take cues from games like Halo, a title that sells in the multiples of millions.

I don't see an easy answer for this, but I think that a game like 'The Regiment,' -- only with the Tom Clancy name and Rainbow Six franchise behind it -- could have been much bigger, particularly if it received the type of polish Ubi is known for. Throw in a wider scope (international operators) and a preexisting hardcore R6 audience, and maybe it could have been a major hit (at least for a niche game).

The problem is getting Ubi to believe this too.

Note: I'm not saying R6 should be just like 'The Regiment' -- I'm just saying that it shows a lot of promise and includes a lot of features that the R6 franchise could borrow from and improve upon.

bdr41
03-27-2006, 04:20 PM
It seems clear that there is a large base of Rainbow Six fans that all want the same thing: a return to deeper, more tactical & realistic gameplay.

Even though we continually shout out our desires to Ubi, getting them to fully embrace our wants might be a problem.

Why? Obviously they are in the business to make money. You'd be a fool to expect anything else. And there's nothing wrong with that -- it's how the world works. Fortunately, creating a quality product helps achieve success, so there is a built-in incentive to please your audience.

However, somehow Ubisoft has to believe that listening to our requests will result in lots of $.

This is where it becomes an uphill climb in my opinion.

I believe that the next Rainbow 6 should take its cues from 'The Regiment' -- from its deep training section, to the CQB squad tactics involved, to the realistic emphasis on speed, surprise, and violence of action in a CT mission.

However, is 'The Regiment' a big hit -- something Ubi can look to as an example of being rewarded for providing the type of game we're asking for? I don't know for a fact, but I doubt it. It wasn't even released in the USA, and it seems to be a minor cult favorite at best (someone correct me if I'm wrong).

At the same time, we continually plead for them not to take cues from games like Halo, a title that sells in the multiples of millions.

I don't see an easy answer for this, but I think that a game like 'The Regiment,' -- only with the Tom Clancy name and Rainbow Six franchise behind it -- could have been much bigger, particularly if it received the type of polish Ubi is known for. Throw in a wider scope (international operators) and a preexisting hardcore R6 audience, and maybe it could have been a major hit (at least for a niche game).

The problem is getting Ubi to believe this too.

Note: I'm not saying R6 should be just like 'The Regiment' -- I'm just saying that it shows a lot of promise and includes a lot of features that the R6 franchise could borrow from and improve upon.

Real720
03-27-2006, 05:45 PM
I know what you mean.

TAW_Fang
03-27-2006, 09:32 PM
Well said. Hopefully they listen.

KungFu_CIA
03-28-2006, 07:35 AM
The main reasons why UBI doesn't seem to want to listen is two fold in my opinion:

1) Most console gamers and gamers in general are casual gamers and they don't want an overly complex game like the original R6 (R6 on PC), or even The Regiment.

They want a very easy-to-learn gaming experience like Halo.

This is what makes games big hits even if they don't deserve it: Clarity of Experience.

CoE is what makes games like Halo, Half-Life and other arcade shooters big successes beyond the graphics, physics and other trappings.

At no point in Halo, for example, does the player have to ask, "What do I do next?" because it is blantantly clear in both the SP campaign and more importantly, the MP portion which consists of old-school modes like Death Match w/respawns (Slayer), Team Death Match w/respawns (Team Slayer), Capture the Flag, etc.

Contrast this to R6 -- on any platform -- And there is a much steeper learning curve because ironically, the player was given the choice to do anything they wanted, however they wanted as in the original PC games with the pre-planning and non-linear maps in SP. MP is also more challenging and complex because of the damage model which allows your avatar to only take a few hits (depending on armor level) and only one to the head and it is game over, and because R6 historically had no respawns up until Lockdown (PC) and R63 and BA on consoles.

2) Because a vast majority of gamers are casual gamers, UBI, in my opinion, falsely thinks by steadily changing R6 into similar games like Halo, Half-Life, BF2, etc. this will automatically draw players from those games and increase sales of the R6 franchise.

Lockdown was a blatant example of trying to pander and cater to those who would never be interested in R6 and who shouldn't be playing R6 (on any platform) if we are going to be brutally honest because R6 used to always be a niche genre about tactical realism... Not run-and-gun, arcade action like 99% of games out there.

Basically, UBI wants R6 to be more "mainstream" and popular. Well, they've already achieved this with R6 being a huge hit on consoles.

I am not being anti-console as I play R63 and BA as well, but realistically, R6 was never a big hit on the PC as far as "mainstream appeal", so what makes them think they can all of a sudden change this even AFTER it has been ported to consoles and was a certified success? I'll tell you: Greed.

Yeah, it's an ugly word, but like I said, if we look at R6 success... It has gone mainstream and to a wider audience already by going to the consoles itself... But apparently, this isn't enough http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

I understand UBI wants to make money and I don't hold it against the devs as they are employees who do what they are told... But I think the CEOs and CFOs need to realize by trying to turn R6 into something even "more mainstream" -- If this is even possible -- That ultimately, it is going to backfire because it as if Lockdown was a test for something much worse, ironically, and I hope that something doesn't turn out to be Vegas (console or PC) because if anything, Lockdown failed miserably as far as the fans are concerned and more importantly, as sales were concerned if the reactions on the internet and word-on-the-street is any indication and hopefully, they've finally woke up -- because it affected something they actually cared about, I.E. the bottom line and the stockholders bottom line -- And they won't make the same mistake twice.

del130528032037
03-28-2006, 07:58 AM
In my opinion, the third times the charm. I think that Ubisoft is going to finally get it right. I do believe, however, that Vegas is going to be a different game, but it will be a

hit. There are going to be so many things that will make the game feel like Rainbow again. You have stop and think! Ubi wants to make money. Their profit has gone down sinse

Lockdown, and continues to go down with the Rainbow Six Series. Ubisoft wants Vegas to be a smash hit just like the rest of us. With the new Rainbow making a big splash on Xbox 360, everybody knows that this game isn't going to

be a joke. It's in the evidence. Think about it.

SirJOW
03-28-2006, 10:20 PM
BROKEN RECORD ALERT! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif


The reason that we are having such trouble convincing the developers of "what we want" is ignorance (usually by them). I mean, the reason that Lockdown sold bigger than the first two (excellent) console titles is because people were starting to fall in love with Rainbow Six not because the gameplay was more "mainstream." It sold so huge because everyone who had become a fan from the first two releases were eagerly awaiting Lockdown and purchased without looking (like me). http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif Thankfully I learned my $50 lesson and waited with Critical Hour. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif (that and I got a 360 too)

So tell me, UBI, how many people were duped into purchasing Critical Hour? Oh, gonna blame it on the 360's release now huh? I GUESS IGNORANCE IS BLISS!

Come on people! Lets send a message with Vegas and rent before we buy! I wish this could be an automatic buy, but not after "Letdown" and "Critical meltdown."

del130528032037
03-29-2006, 10:40 AM
Why were people falling in love with Rainbow Six in the first place? Gameplay. Is that my final answer? Yes. (Ding! Ding! Ding!) Ladies and Gentalmen! We have a winner.