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JamesBlonde888
08-30-2006, 10:50 PM
A sadly underused aircraft in this game.

So many versions and so versatile. I was glad to see the Mistel included but would like to see further work on this type as it was such a heavily used type and in many ways exciting to operate.

JamesBlonde888
08-30-2006, 10:50 PM
A sadly underused aircraft in this game.

So many versions and so versatile. I was glad to see the Mistel included but would like to see further work on this type as it was such a heavily used type and in many ways exciting to operate.

leitmotiv
08-31-2006, 12:54 AM
I soothe my grief by flying the hyper-detailed He 219 versions for FS2004 by Shockwave.

F19_Olli72
08-31-2006, 02:06 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif
http://www.ju88.equitatura.de/Project/finalskins/C-6_grey_01.jpg

http://www.ju88.equitatura.de/Project/Ju88C6/pilotc6.jpg

Feathered_IV
08-31-2006, 02:08 AM
Thats the one I wanted http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Waldo.Pepper
08-31-2006, 02:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Feathered_IV:
Thats the one I wanted http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

+1

BiscuitKnight
08-31-2006, 02:24 AM
At least we got a flyable A4 - that was the most common version, right?

And yeah, I know it'd be better to have more major Ju-88 variants than the UFOs, but shh, we'll get called whiners!

DuxCorvan
08-31-2006, 07:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BiscuitKnight:
we'll get called whiners! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, we won't. The thread will be deleted, that's what will happen.

R988z
08-31-2006, 10:33 AM
I like the '88, she moves quite well for a bomber, pity it doesn't have some forward facing guns like the B25, mossie or A20 so you can suprise some of those pesky fighters once you've dropped that heavy payload http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif

VW-IceFire
08-31-2006, 03:19 PM
Its not underused on UK-Dedicated. Ju-88 use is up.

The bombload is a huge help and it feels a bit faster than the He-111.

p1ngu666
08-31-2006, 03:24 PM
heavy fighter version would of been cool http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

mgoyat
08-31-2006, 10:01 PM
But there's no Lancaster to shoot down in flames !

MM-Zorin
08-31-2006, 10:42 PM
My problem with this situation is that 1C has all the modells with cockpit, for quite some time now. But they do not care for it.

There is no major difference in performces between the types so the work concerning the FM is minimal as they already have the A4 values. So why on earth can't they give us these planes?...

269GA-Veltro
09-01-2006, 02:25 AM
Ju-88 could have been a great addon...may be including at least 3 versions in the Pe-2 addon.

But we are talking about nothing, now we are in the IL2 "non sense" era........

JG52Uther
09-01-2006, 03:55 AM
Just about my biggest disappointment with IL-2 is that we did'nt get all the completed versions of the Ju88.All that work that people put in on the model (and others) for nothing. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

BiscuitKnight
09-01-2006, 06:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DuxCorvan:
No, we won't. The thread will be deleted, that's what will happen. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In that case, I, uh, I meant, I can't wait to fly the duesche, I mean Lerche, I mean, sorry, they're just similar is all. The names, I mean.

Xiolablu3
09-01-2006, 07:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JamesBlonde888:
A sadly underused aircraft in this game.

. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are flying the wrong servers then, James.

Ju88 is the Axis bomber of choice when its available. Fast and deadly to careless fighters.

Try some different servers, you will be pleasantly surprised http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

MM-Zorin
09-03-2006, 08:08 PM
Maybe we will see the other versions in the patch after the addons. I mean if planes like the Avia get in than I see no possible reason why we shouldn't get a Ju88 with torps, as Zerstoerer and Schlachtflieger.

JG53Frankyboy
09-03-2006, 08:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MM-Zorin:
Maybe we will see the other versions in the patch after the addons. I mean if planes like the Avia get in than I see no possible reason why we shouldn't get a Ju88 with torps, as Zerstoerer and Schlachtflieger. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

because there is nobody who would put them in the game engine !
as simple as it is !

even the now flyable Ju88A-4 is NOT Jippo's new 3D model ! its just the old one with a new default skin.

so imagine how much work it would be to put a new 3D model in with all its LODs and damage textures. not to speak of the cockpits.

forgett it - as sad as it is.

p1ngu666
09-03-2006, 08:52 PM
a really good addon would of been...

pe2 and 3
ju88 various
mossie various
a20/b25 various
betty/some japanease aircraft

BiscuitKnight
09-04-2006, 03:29 AM
I guess there's a degree of truth in the "Botched since PF" argument: few torpedo bombers, no Ju-88 variants, Bf-110s that have bizarre FMs, and so forth. But balance that against the long running support and I'd stand by OM's team even if SoW was a flop, hoping that the next edition cleaned up.

faustnik
09-04-2006, 02:32 PM
Wow! That fighter-bomber version is beautiful. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

p1ngu666
09-04-2006, 02:59 PM
yip http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

JG53Frankyboy
09-05-2006, 05:39 AM
yeah, such a Ju88C-6 (3xMG-FF, 3xMG17, 10xSC50) would have been nice, but...
a Ju88A-14 would have been my choice:
one MG-FF fixed, forward firing
no Lotfe
no Divebrakes
more armour
still with wingmounted bombracks
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

or a Ju88A-4 , MG-FF fieldmod, that the divebrakes are still availabe http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

just dreams ............................

TeufelHund84
09-05-2006, 12:42 PM
Love this plane, favorite bombing aircraft ingame (although I don't have/never flown Pe-2...).

But one question, why am I able to only select the starboard dorsal gunner? I can see a perfectly good port side gunner with a hatch sitting directly next to me, but as I cycle through the seats, that one always gets skipped.

What gives?
Take it away boys: http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/354.gif

WWSensei
09-05-2006, 01:07 PM
The README that came with the patch containing the 88 explains why only one gunner. It's a limitation of the game engine.

From the 4.0.3 README:

"Unfortunately, the Il-2 / FB / PF code was never intended for a single crewman alternating between firing positions due to online gameplay limitations. In Ju-88 cause we would not be able to prevent the AI from, for example, firing the rear right top gun while the player fired the left gun. Due to these limitations and in order to keep a level playing field, the right top gunner in Ju-88 will always be controlled by AI.
The Ju-88 is no different in controls from other flyable bombers on all other respects."

p1ngu666
09-05-2006, 01:34 PM
he111 and b25 only had 1 "waist" gunner.

its like with pe2 without belly gunner or side. there just lazy and dont care for bombers/attack aircraft http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

hero fighter planes is the order of the day http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

HellToupee
09-05-2006, 09:22 PM
no its not lazyness, the differnce is waste guns do not point in the same direction, unlike the rear guns on the ju88 which would shoot at the same target. its not like the position is not modeled. On the pe2s case it would be even more complicated preiscope guns etc.

BiscuitKnight
09-06-2006, 02:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by p1ngu666:
its like with pe2 without belly gunner or side. there just lazy and dont care for bombers/attack aircraft http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't be honest, they'll lock the thread!

p1ngu666
09-06-2006, 08:32 AM
id disagree with helltoupee, the periscope sight was made and a rear cockpit, and it is possible todo a periscope sight in il2, as thats pretty much what the beta ju88 had.

this game is very strongly fighter biased.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

they could of modeled the ju88 as having a extra chap onboard to man the guns, happened sometimes in the RAF and other services, im sure it happened with the LW. some chaps even bought there dog along http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

HellToupee
09-06-2006, 07:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by p1ngu666:
id disagree with helltoupee, the periscope sight was made and a rear cockpit, and it is possible todo a periscope sight in il2, as thats pretty much what the beta ju88 had.

this game is very strongly fighter biased.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

they could of modeled the ju88 as having a extra chap onboard to man the guns, happened sometimes in the RAF and other services, im sure it happened with the LW. some chaps even bought there dog along http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

an extra chap is not the norm is it.

There is a reason there is more fighters than bombers, because it takes a fraction of the effort to model a fighter. If it was so fighter based why do we have a good selection of bombers then?

p1ngu666
09-06-2006, 09:47 PM
a good selection of bombers?
we have tb3, pe2, he111,ju88,stuka(ify, depending on how u class it), betty,b25. plus we getting a20 boston and arado thingy.

the gunners give u no warning of enemy fighters, and get this, there ARE soundfiles for that!

the versions chosen are often bad, the betty for example, they often cut off the glazing on the rear gun, which we dont have, so u haveto try and aim thru some horrible cage, which incidently spasms about!

the bombsites dont track the target correctly either, the gunners are ******s

plus theres lots of other nice bits and bobs..

theres 11bombers if u say...
2 tb3 (yes theres 3, but 2 are the same, but 1 carries planes, so the other one would be better in a pure bomber role)
4 pe2
2 he111's
1 ju88
1 betty
1 b25

exclude the tb3 for being obsolete, and combine the types into 1, and u have 5 bombers...

compair that to real life..

Scharnhorst1943
09-06-2006, 10:08 PM
What about A20G?
What about Mosquito?
What about Me110?

And like you said, we are getting A20C and Ar234 ...

I guess you are classifying Mosquito and Me110 as fighters? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

What about the Do335? It has a bomb bay. And technically it has two ingines as does Betty exc...

After the addons, the list should be ...

TB 3
IL2

Ju 87 Stuka
Ju 88
He 111
Me 110
Ar 234

Mosquito 6
Beaufighter 21

A 20C Havoc
A 20G Havoc
B 25 Mitchell
SBD Dauntless

D3A Val
G4M Betty

HellToupee
09-06-2006, 10:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by p1ngu666:
a good selection of bombers?
we have tb3, pe2, he111,ju88,stuka(ify, depending on how u class it), betty,b25. plus we getting a20 boston and arado thingy.

the gunners give u no warning of enemy fighters, and get this, there ARE soundfiles for that!

the versions chosen are often bad, the betty for example, they often cut off the glazing on the rear gun, which we dont have, so u haveto try and aim thru some horrible cage, which incidently spasms about!

the bombsites dont track the target correctly either, the gunners are ******s

plus theres lots of other nice bits and bobs..

theres 11bombers if u say...
2 tb3 (yes theres 3, but 2 are the same, but 1 carries planes, so the other one would be better in a pure bomber role)
4 pe2
2 he111's
1 ju88
1 betty
1 b25

exclude the tb3 for being obsolete, and combine the types into 1, and u have 5 bombers...

compair that to real life.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

bombsights will track when u get closer to target with correct sight settings, if its not tracking wrong settings are inputted. Gunners give plenty of warning, they shoot u hear the gunfire and wulla warning, u want more warning be more vigulant.

So what compare to real life, we dont even have all the fighters from real life, where are the typhoons various spitfire and hurricane marks whirlwind and many others, simply because no one has put the effort in to model one, for every bomber not present theres fighters as well not modeled.

If you think you got a rough deal on the bombers how many did u model? He111 and ju88 covers most of the german bomber usage during the war. As does the pe2 for the russians and the betty for the japanese so its got a birdcage that "some" had removed o boohoo who cares.

BiscuitKnight
09-07-2006, 01:02 AM
The game is fighter biased, I'm not totally against that, but some balance:

We've got various UFOs, unproduced aircraft and obscure marks, and we're getting more. Balance that against the bombers: the most common He-111 model isn't included! The Ju-88 has one variant included. The TB-3 is a classic example of strange 1C decisions: it was retired by 1942 as a transport and totally obsolete as a bomber before that. Why bother including it?

I can't see why there isn't some balance: for example, how about the important marks of the He-111 (H2, H6, H12?), all flyable, some major marks of the Ju-88, such as A4, but there are others, like the night fighter, that are lacking. The Il-4 - no flyables http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif why not? Again, major marks and flyable.

Against that, major fighters and the important marks. Get a sim with the major bases nicely covered, then release the UFOs as an expansion that DOESN'T require everyone buy it.

joeap
09-07-2006, 04:13 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif +1 to BK.

p1ngu666
09-07-2006, 08:55 AM
well the aircraft scharnhorst lists are ATTACK aircraft, or fighters..

divebombing aircraft are a grey area..

bombsites never track that fantasticly in my experience.

wow, the ultra effective gunner warning, a gunner (normaly one who probably cant even see the enemy fires his guns, so u know theres a enemy somewhere in a 2k globe around your plane. its also a GREAT use of ammo!. so effective that it was used irl exclusivly rather than telling the crew, "bandits 7 oclock high" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif

the he111 and ju88 versions cover most german bomber useage like a 109e and f, and a 190a4 would cover there fighter for the war period http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

well if u flew a betty for 5minutes in combat ud soon care when u haveto blind fire at a enemy fighter u cant see, and cage spasms and makes your eyes go funny.

the game is heavily baised for secondary aircraft (fighters) primary roles of aircraft are recon and bombing.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

KG26_Alpha
09-07-2006, 10:22 AM
Attention has gone solely into fighters and to hell with anything bomber orientated, theres too many bugs with online flight and AI surrounding bombers and ground attack aircraft, also did Junkers supply a "midget" to operate the gondola gun or is that another 1c team own goal ?

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Jaws2002
09-07-2006, 10:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scharnhorst1943:
What about Mosquito?
What about Me110?

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why would you call those two bombers is beyond me. The mosquito has a nose armament of four 20mm Hispano Cannons and four MG's and you call it a bomber? We don't even have the bomber variant.
LMAO about the BF-110 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

That thing is a bomber.....DESTROYER. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif, not a bomber. Just because it can carry some bombs does not make it a bomber in any way. It is a heavy fighter in it's purest sense. If you want I'll show you a little film of this poor bomber that after shot the snot out of Russian ground attack aircraft, turned around and obliterated their fighter escort as well.

If a plane has two engines and a gunner is not necessarily a bomber.

Jaws2002
09-07-2006, 11:01 AM
Here is the poor 110 bomber in action thanks to

http://www.jagdgeschwader4.de (http://www.jagdgeschwader4.de/Casino/Filme/Wochenschauen/JG4-Movie-37.mpg).

Monty_Thrud
09-07-2006, 01:01 PM
LOL...thats not propaganda...no no no http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

The JU-88 is to robust ATM

DuxCorvan
09-07-2006, 04:21 PM
On a side note...

Monty-Thrud, I should have told this to you before but... You should change your nick.

Sorry, mate, but every time I see it there's something dislexic in my brain which at first reads "Mounty-Turd", no pun intended, and it's not the first time.

Don't know if others have experienced the same. A curious effect, just FYI. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

KG66_Gog
09-07-2006, 06:22 PM
KG66 Will be flying formations of the JU88 fairly regularly on Hyperlobby, so if you think this aircraft is under-utilised, think again!

Your just not looking in the right place!

Map makers need to ensure that not just bombers are included in the missions but decent target opportunities also!!

www.kg66.net (http://www.kg66.net)

luftluuver
09-07-2006, 07:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DuxCorvan:
On a side note...

Monty-Thrud, I should have told this to you before but... You should change your nick.

Sorry, mate, but every time I see it there's something dislexic in my brain which at first reads "Mounty-Turd", no pun intended, and it's not the first time.

Don't know if others have experienced the same. A curious effect, just FYI. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Never.

What I do see is THUD, that being a reference to that American a/c the F-105.

HellToupee
09-07-2006, 08:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by p1ngu666:
well the aircraft scharnhorst lists are ATTACK aircraft, or fighters..

divebombing aircraft are a grey area..

bombsites never track that fantasticly in my experience.

wow, the ultra effective gunner warning, a gunner (normaly one who probably cant even see the enemy fires his guns, so u know theres a enemy somewhere in a 2k globe around your plane. its also a GREAT use of ammo!. so effective that it was used irl exclusivly rather than telling the crew, "bandits 7 oclock high" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif

the he111 and ju88 versions cover most german bomber useage like a 109e and f, and a 190a4 would cover there fighter for the war period http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

well if u flew a betty for 5minutes in combat ud soon care when u haveto blind fire at a enemy fighter u cant see, and cage spasms and makes your eyes go funny.

the game is heavily baised for secondary aircraft (fighters) primary roles of aircraft are recon and bombing.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

then u must be using the bombsite incorrectly, with correct settings it tracks if it is not then you have incorrect settings.

WHat would a gunner saying bandits 7 oclock be useful for? whos 7 oclock, seriously use your own eyes. AI dont even see a target till they begin to track and shoot them.

And yes he111 and ju88 cover most of the usage, the a-4 was the most common bomber variant of the ju88. The he111 was phased out, what other bombers served with the lw in any numbers?

I have flown the betty alot, i have n oproblem hitting people with the rear gun, most of the time i focus on flying above all the combat and hitting from very high alts.

As all the modelers have stated before, to create bomber cogpits for the game for the same effort you could probly model 4-5 fighters. The game is biased only in the sense fighters are easyer to make.

BiscuitKnight
09-08-2006, 05:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HellToupee:
And yes he111 and ju88 cover most of the usage, the a-4 was the most common bomber variant of the ju88. The he111 was phased out, what other bombers served with the lw in any numbers?

As all the modelers have stated before, to create bomber cogpits for the game for the same effort you could probly model 4-5 fighters. The game is biased only in the sense fighters are easyer to make. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You really missed his point about the He-111 and Ju-88 variants covering the bombers as well as having the Bf-109E and F models only.

The He-111 is a fine example: the most common variant (unfortunately I've misplaced my book and cannot locate it to cite it) isn't in the game at all. It wasn't phased out like you might think: it was still bombing in 1944. Sure, the Ju-88 was much better, but the He-111 wasn't totally out of service post 1942, it was just superseded the same way the Spitfire replaced the Hurricane, less so.

And the Ju-88: where are the variants?

It's like having just the first A model Fw-190 modelled and just the Bf-190F2 modelled.

As for being easier to make: they Ju-88 and He-111 and many other bombers are already IN THE GAME the hardest work is done, it's just modifying the existing planes! Third parties even offered models to be incorporated.

TC_Stele
09-08-2006, 11:41 AM
I've found this flight model of the JU-88 an extreme challenge. This is the only plane I've had difficulties landing in and especially maintaining a descent climb.

The siren is the loudest thing in the game, I think, lol.

p1ngu666
09-08-2006, 12:17 PM
i just tried a b25, and yes the sight now tracks targets properly http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif, before it required constant corrections.

and to keep up a search pattern in a bomber requires alot of position swapping, plus if your engauged with some fighters say high 6, u dont have a clue whats going on at low 6...

and flying over everyone isnt really possible in coops, dogfight servers yes, but in coops your probably the objective the enemy are after..

HellToupee
09-08-2006, 03:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It's like having just the first A model Fw-190 modelled and just the Bf-190F2 modelled. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

well no not quite, the other variants were heavy fighters or night fighters, what other major bombing variants were there? A4 was the most common bomber variant till the end. He111 was still used post 1942 but not so much in frontline service.

p1ngu666
09-08-2006, 04:32 PM
http://www.geocities.com/hjunkers/ju_ju88_a1.htm

http://www.ju88.equitatura.de/versionenA.htm

i think there where various improvements, but they didnt change the mk number (much like on lanc)

the later he111's had better engines, better turrets/armament and could do over 300mph iirec.

do17 series was the other major bomber used by the lw