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Bearcat99
03-21-2004, 04:39 PM
Well the upside is they seem to be smarter when trying to evade you if you have them on Ace. The downside is I get shot down a LOT more often by my AI teammates now more than ever...... too often if you ask me. It seems that when I latch onto a plane...someone else will too...and they are perfectly willing to shoot through me to get to that plane. As a result I have to not only watch my six from the enemy AI but the friendly AI as well... the good thing is that at least the friendly AI wont follow me once I disengage. Can we find a happy balance here? I love the more aggressive AI but man..its a drag being shot down by your own side.......much more often than before.

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Bearcat99
03-21-2004, 04:39 PM
Well the upside is they seem to be smarter when trying to evade you if you have them on Ace. The downside is I get shot down a LOT more often by my AI teammates now more than ever...... too often if you ask me. It seems that when I latch onto a plane...someone else will too...and they are perfectly willing to shoot through me to get to that plane. As a result I have to not only watch my six from the enemy AI but the friendly AI as well... the good thing is that at least the friendly AI wont follow me once I disengage. Can we find a happy balance here? I love the more aggressive AI but man..its a drag being shot down by your own side.......much more often than before.

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clint-ruin
03-21-2004, 04:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bearcat99:
Well the upside is they seem to be smarter when trying to evade you if you have them on Ace. The downside is I get shot down a LOT more often by my AI teammates now more than ever...... too often if you ask me. It seems that when I latch onto a plane...someone else will too...and they are perfectly willing to shoot through me to get to that plane. As a result I have to not only watch my six from the enemy AI but the friendly AI as well... the good thing is that at least the friendly AI wont follow me once I disengage. Can we find a happy balance here? I love the more aggressive AI but man..its a drag being shot down by your own side.......much more often than before.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The only time I ever have problems with this tends to be with the last plane in the area. Usually I'm telling groups to pile onto other planes around me with F4 / Tab / Group / 5

Could always tell them to RTB or form up I guess :&gt;

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Huxley_S
03-21-2004, 04:54 PM
What I've noticed most about the new enemy AI is that they are much more inclined to bugger off if they think the battle is going badly, often using their speed advantage to flee the scene leaving me and my flight vainly chasing after them. The cheeky sausages.

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vicloc
03-21-2004, 05:01 PM
What I also notice is that the enemy AI tend to always go after the flight leader and ignore all other planes. Once I was tailed by an enemy AI, he purely focused on me and flew right pass my wingman. He came from behind my wingman, overtook him and was right in front of my wingman! they were virtually wing-tip to wing-tip. He didn't shoot my wingman and my wingman didn't do anything either until I order him to "attack enemy fighter".

Enemy AI set to Ace and this was a 4 vs 4 encounter in the QMB.

CountFunk
03-21-2004, 06:41 PM
Huxley_S, you're definitely right. I've noticed the same thing myself, and I love it.

I always found it a bit "off" that in earlier FB most engagements were fought until one side was completely obliterated... It feels a lot truer for both sides to fly away, if with one limping more than the other.

crazyivan1970
03-21-2004, 06:45 PM
This is rather strange... I`v been running COOPs for over 2 months now...almost every day and never been shot down by wingman or any other AI on my side...nore they stole my kill. Computers are weird http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

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chris455
03-21-2004, 06:59 PM
I've never had that problem Bear (if I'm understanding you right)
I use my AI wingies as an extension of myself.
He is there to cover my butt, I do most of the fighting. Giving him an order to "rejoin" will usually keep him close by wher I can give him an attack order if things start to go badly. I never let him go on a free hunt.
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SeaFireLIV
03-21-2004, 07:16 PM
I play the offline Campaign alot, but only a few times have I had AI NEARLY shoot me down. It`s not a problem for me and I did jump in front in one case. AI can be a bit quick to steal kills which is frustrating at times, but then I guess it`s about the winning of the war (if played in view of the Campaign). Still lessining the kill stealing would be nice.

But I too have noticed the AI`s decision to flee. I was attacked by 2 FWs while on my own, then 2 friendlies appeared and quickly shot one FW down. Immediately the one FW AI thought better of it and raced away.

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Bearcat99
03-21-2004, 08:13 PM
The thing is ... its never my wingman that shoots me down..its usually one of the OTHER guys..... but it happens.. i was on the tail of a 109 in a P-51B ...the next thing I know my windshield is full of oil and my prop is slowwing down.. i hit F3 and zi see... anothe P-51 shooting through me to get to hte 109 I am chasing.... That sort of stuff didhappen in RL but..... man... I guess ina way it is a little more realsitic in the sense that if you want to stay alive you will break off..and that will cut down your kills... but still.

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Udidtoo
03-21-2004, 10:45 PM
Since I never play online I cannot say how often it happens there or if offline/online AI is governed by different set of commands but it does seem to have increased in AEP.

It also seems to happen with certain plane sets much more than others. Your own squad mates are not nearly as much of a problem as planes from other elements. Especially if they happen to be a flight of I-16's sent along as top cover for you if your mission is a ground attack.

They often seem to fixate on your selected target and will pour fire into you or your wingman. I have long wished that something along the lines of " Hey! friendly here!" was one of your command radio options. As it is breaking off is your only good option.

..............................
I always have just enough fuel to arrive at the scene of my crash.

LEXX_Luthor
03-22-2004, 12:28 AM
In a dogfight if the Friends want my target I let them have it and find another target--often one that is targeting the Friends. Its personally safer and better use of friendly resources to engage a target not being ganged up on. Its not like I am General of the Air Forces or something and have to get "my" kill, but like Cleo, I just wanna be part of The Team. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


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HH Quazi
03-22-2004, 12:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bearcat99:
The thing is ... its never my wingman that shoots me down..its usually one of the OTHER guys..... but it happens.. i was on the tail of a 109 in a P-51B ...the next thing I know my windshield is full of oil and my prop is slowwing down.. i hit F3 and zi see... anothe P-51 shooting through me to get to hte 109 I am chasing.... That sort of stuff didhappen in RL but..... man... I guess ina way it is a little more realsitic in the sense that if you want to stay alive you will break off..and that will cut down your kills... but still.

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Sounds like something I did playing an online campaign with my squad Saturday evening. I have been working on staying close to my lead element as a wingman in DF's. Well, I had slipped back to about a .5 click when an enemy AI dropped in between me and my lead. In an effort to get the AI to realize I was on his six, I fired a quick burst. He realized it and bugged out. But one of my rounds took my own lead out. loll I was branded a TK. loll S!

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vicloc
03-22-2004, 06:45 AM
Further to the AEP AI, I find it almost impossible to do any scissors or barrel roll when an AI is on your six (especially an Ace AI). The AIs seem to be deadly accurate and know the exact moment to shoot when you initiate any turn or roll, and they always hit right at the right spot, like the engine or take your wing off. I dont know if anybody is having the same problem, or do I just crap at it! :-)

With online against human players, at least you can perform scissors and can sometime get away and make the another person overshoot.

SeaFireLIV
03-22-2004, 06:55 AM
This is true, vicloc. I found this problem in 1.22. Online, the barrel roll or scissors would often fox a Human pursuer, you may not lose him, but he often didn`t fire cos he just couldn`t get a bearing. Of course, after a bit he would start to predict you so you`d need to do something else. In 1.22 the AI knows to shoot exactly when you cross his line-of-sight, all I could do was keep turning.

In AEP, I simply haven`t tried scissoring with AI yet, I think I did try barrel-rolling and wasn`t shot down. The AEP AI seems sometimes less trigger happy. But I have to do a few more offline Campaigns missions to be sure.

I don`t test QMB, I go through the Campaign, you get a greater variety of AI and it`s a better test IMHO. Does take longer though....

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michapma
03-22-2004, 07:00 AM
Bearcat, I have noticed this plenty in 1.22 and previous versions of FB. I can't judge yet, it may be more common in AEP, but it's certainly no rare phenomenon in FB, or IL-2 for that matter. I've also had AI bug out plenty in FB and ignore each other. Again, can't comment on differences to AEP, but none of the behavior here surprises me.

vicloc, doing scissors is a dangerous proposition with the AI. Especially if you start it too soon. Try to add vertical components to your defensive maneuvers, and keep maneuver speed up, at least 260kph or so for most planes. If you fly too slowly, you are even easier to hit. It also helps to do some rolls and make your path unpredictable. I find against AI that if the turn rates are comparable, getting into a turn for several seconds and then reversing can often discourage the AI. Timing is very important though. I've been working on reversals a lot, and this is one area where practicing with the AI can help you against humans too. The AIs just make fewer mistakes.

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Udidtoo
03-22-2004, 07:23 AM
To further what michapma says about reversals.

To loose that AI stuck to you like glue I always, provided I have the altitude start a long turn to the left with about 15% of decent.

Just before you reach the speed where you know you will jam your flaps, kick hard opposite rudder and crank the stick the opposite of what you were turning while extending flaps to at least combat setting, take off even better.

This will not work some of the time, it will work most of the time. Then it is sometimes quite easy depending on what the AI did next , to reverse yet again and now your ready to engage him in turn

..............................
I always have just enough fuel to arrive at the scene of my crash.

essemm
03-22-2004, 07:28 AM
I have this problem a lot.

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GregSM
03-22-2004, 08:59 AM
Hi all,


In campaign play at least, complaints of AI "poaching" arise chiefly from the fact that the player side is likely to outnumber its opposition - see the "ops" files in the DGen folder (which can be amended to taste). Every AI section leader chooses a target to engage. His wingman will not engage this or any other target unless the leader is threatened. Should the threat pass, the wingman will disengage and resume "covering" his leader. (The player wingman behaves accordingly.) "Poaching" occurs proportionally to the degree by which one side outnumbers the other, properly the degree by which the flight leaders of one side outnumber the flight leaders of the other side. Range says something to this as well: flight leaders choose their targets in accordance to some sort of proximity formulae, which is finite and cannot account for even the gravest threats that may be looming beyond its parameters. Namely, while the bad folk may be legion, our entirely war effort may be directed exclusively at the one among them who is closest.

Be that as it may, credit for destroyed objects is ascribed simply to the object that damaged it last. It's perfectly clinical; as believable as AI is getting, it's likely to remain morally oblivious for some time. Until they're suitably endowed, I reckon we might ourselves adopt that blank, pitiless gaze and poach "their" kills as they poach "ours".

Of course, I can't say that any of this is entirely accurate.


Cheers,


Greg