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ViktorViktor
10-01-2005, 04:43 AM
I've read from several sources that VVS fighter pilots flew regularly with open cockpits. The main reasons were that they often became stuck and couldn't be opened at a crucial time(such as when attempting to bail out), and also to improve visibibility. But flying with an open cockpit meant a noticeable decrease in aircraft speed (20 kph slower ?)

I remember trying out a Yak (9?) and the view from the cockpit was pretty dark.

Is this (VVS open cockpits and affect upon performance) modelled in IL-2 ? (Doesn't appear to be.) Has anyone broached this subject to Oleg ? What's his answer ?

Or do most of you others fly with cockpits off, so you could care less ?

ViktorViktor
10-01-2005, 04:43 AM
I've read from several sources that VVS fighter pilots flew regularly with open cockpits. The main reasons were that they often became stuck and couldn't be opened at a crucial time(such as when attempting to bail out), and also to improve visibibility. But flying with an open cockpit meant a noticeable decrease in aircraft speed (20 kph slower ?)

I remember trying out a Yak (9?) and the view from the cockpit was pretty dark.

Is this (VVS open cockpits and affect upon performance) modelled in IL-2 ? (Doesn't appear to be.) Has anyone broached this subject to Oleg ? What's his answer ?

Or do most of you others fly with cockpits off, so you could care less ?

Badsight.
10-01-2005, 04:59 AM
historical manufacturing & operating troubles are supposedly not moddeled in FB

Lavochkins also leaked exhaust gasses into the cockpit . . . . apparently

FlatSpinMan
10-01-2005, 05:01 AM
The newer planes in the sim (those from Pacific Fighters) have this feature and I really like it if it is available. The older ones do not. If I have to do ground atack I like to open the canopy as you really can see better and just to watch I think it looks cool. In combat though, I clsoe it as it must rob speed (as you mentioned). On a carrier landing attempt i open it too.
to try it, fly the Seafire, Wildcat, Hellcat, Corsair, etc or my favourite PF plane, the Hawk.

sokil
10-01-2005, 05:30 AM
I read that one of the reasons why some of VVS pilots flew with open cockpits was the quality of plexiglass or whatever they used for making canopy - often it would turn yellow under sun rays hence poor visibility, they could not see it during manufacture stage because planes were exposed to sun rays as much as in service.

Ankanor
10-01-2005, 05:33 AM
this one is true, but only initially. Stalin learned of the problems and politely asked the producer of the plexiglass to make it better. Then there were no problems. Really Stalin was very persuasive... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

the canopy of the early MiG-3(no info about the later variants) couldn't be opened above 400 kmh TAS(source - Pokryshkin)

JG52Uther
10-01-2005, 05:43 AM
I would love malfunctions to be modelled in the game.It would be great if there was an option in BoB to turn them on.Just imagine waiting an hour for a Czechwar mission,then when you take off your engine blows up.fantastic!
And it would be great if all La-7 pilots could pass out from fumes after 5 minutes flying http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Kuna15
10-01-2005, 05:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Badsight.:
Lavochkins also leaked exhaust gasses into the cockpit . . . . apparently </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes. Apparently LA family has suffered from this problem. LaGG pilots more but it also wasn't solved on LA series.
LaGGs also had problems with cockpit visibility after cockpit glass was exposed to sunlight for some time it become 'yellow-ish' so therefore reduced visibility.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG52Uther:
And it would be great if all La-7 pilots could pass out from fumes after 5 minutes flying http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes it would be good for some. But not going to happen, so... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

jimDG
10-01-2005, 05:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ViktorViktor:
I've read from several sources that VVS fighter pilots flew regularly with open cockpits. The main reasons were that they often became stuck and couldn't be opened at a crucial time(such as when attempting to bail out), and also to improve visibibility. But flying with an open cockpit meant a noticeable decrease in aircraft speed (20 kph slower ?)

I remember trying out a Yak (9?) and the view from the cockpit was pretty dark.

Is this (VVS open cockpits and affect upon performance) modelled in IL-2 ? (Doesn't appear to be.) Has anyone broached this subject to Oleg ? What's his answer ?

Or do most of you others fly with cockpits off, so you could care less ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There was an closed cockpit version of the "newer", "v. 2.0", I-16s that came out during the Spanish War to offset the increased effectiness of the "newer" bf109s (Ds, I think); everyone complained about the poor visibility through the canopy. So in the next version ("v. 3.0") the canopy was removed - which is the version we have in IL2/WW2.

Which reminds me - Can we have a Spanish Civil War add-on to Il2? We've already got most of the airplanes - italian biplanes, I-153, i-16, bf109 (but we dont have the B, C, D versions ), HE-111, and the russian early 2 engine bombers.
It would be cool to try to catch bombers that are faster than you, and that have more MGs pointing your way than you have pointing their way http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

JG53Frankyboy
10-01-2005, 06:15 AM
the very first series of the I-16 , Typ 4&5,had this forward sliding canopy.
Typ 5 fought over spain. Typ10 , also fought over spain, got the pit we know from the game.

btw, also the first Fiat G.50 and Macchi Mc.200 had closed canopies , were not liked by the pilots - was changed to open ones http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Taylortony
10-01-2005, 06:17 AM
Pah.... that's nothing, I drive with my car
window open http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

ViktorViktor
10-01-2005, 06:56 AM
Taylortony - you didn't say why you drove with the window open !!

horseback
10-01-2005, 01:04 PM
Actually, it is my understanding that early-war 'modern' Soviet fighters had their canopies (but not the windshield) made of a thick cellophane derivative, which rapidly turned yellow upon exposure to sunlight.

It did take Stalin's intervention to solve the issue, because the factory managers who produced the aircraft were under his strict instruction (and we all know how strict Uncle Joe could be) to let nothing (including valid pilot complaints)interfere with production...

cheers

horseback

Enforcer572005
10-01-2005, 09:53 PM
it was primarily the earliest lagg-3 models that the pilot flew with open canopies, primarily because they couldnt jettison the blasted things and didnt want to get trapped inside the "varnished flying coffin". those early jobs had lousy quality workmanship, as pointed out by uncle joe to some Lagg bureau guys when he threw a seperated control surface on a table in front of them.

at least according squadron/signals laggs in action book.

Waldo.Pepper
10-02-2005, 12:28 AM
Of course at one time all planes were open cockpit models. A number of pilots prefered open cockpits. I suspect that this may be involved as well.

Vipez-
10-02-2005, 03:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Badsight.:


Lavochkins also leaked exhaust gasses into the cockpit . . . . apparently </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yak-9U also had this problem..