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View Full Version : The Lancaster's big brother...



msalama
05-26-2007, 09:38 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPn65t7BQUk&mode=related&search=

This has got to be one of the coolest heavies ever http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif We will never see it in IL-2 of course (and it's not even a WWII bird), but I would still love to have one flyable in a combat sim http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

msalama
05-26-2007, 09:38 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPn65t7BQUk&mode=related&search=

This has got to be one of the coolest heavies ever http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif We will never see it in IL-2 of course (and it's not even a WWII bird), but I would still love to have one flyable in a combat sim http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

leitmotiv
05-26-2007, 10:14 AM
Here are some very early (June '42) Lancs and my personal favorite, the Manchester (bring one on for Oleg's new system!):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJjUNFSq844

msalama
05-26-2007, 10:31 AM
Thanks for the link m8! An interesting documentary that there...

Yeah, wouldn't mind having a flyable Manchester either - even if the bugger actually was a bit of a pig really http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

msalama
05-26-2007, 10:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Though a good one got its crew back from the 1000 plane raid on Cologne on one engine (Leslie Manser). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Whew http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif Now that's like winning the bloody lottery, because as we know those Vultures weren't that reliable http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif But then again it's kind of like having two engines still running, isn't it?

Eh... well, OK, extremely "kind of" indeed if you catch my drift http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

msalama
05-26-2007, 10:53 AM
Maaan, what was wrong with that post? I saw no reason whatsoever to delete it myself...

leitmotiv
05-26-2007, 11:09 AM
MY FLIPPIN' ERROR! It didn't get back from Cologne---crashed in Belgium killing Manser (got him the V.C.) but his crew got out. I was thinking of another one which flew all the way from BERLIN (!!!!) on one engine back to Blighty! Story in:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Avro-Manchester-Legend-Behind-L...id=1180199303&sr=1-3 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Avro-Manchester-Legend-Behind-Lancaster/dp/1857800281/ref=sr_1_3/202-0976609-4307067?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1180199303&sr=1-3)

msalama
05-26-2007, 11:11 AM
OK, RGT & thanx for the link.

leitmotiv
05-26-2007, 11:22 AM
Definite pig, the Manchester. Mechanical nightmare. Complete opposite of the Lancaster. Good looking beast, but that won't win a war.

msalama
05-26-2007, 11:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Good looking beast, but that won't win a war. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif Would've changed everything if the Vultures had been reliable, but no.

A strange powerplant that X engine anyway. Kinda seems obvious in hindsight that shoving 24 large cylinders into a small space will inevitably generate lots of heat you then have to dissipate somehow. But even climb airspeed wasn't enough it seems, because didn't those monsters have a tendency of catching fire when climb power was applied?

leitmotiv
05-26-2007, 02:00 PM
According to article in AEROPLANE or FLY PAST a couple years ago, as amazing as it might appear, the Manchester concept was similar to the He 177 in more ways than the crazy engines---the Manchester, too, was intended to be a sooper-dooper dive bomber (thus, the need for two engines instead of four to reduce drag), and, like the 177, was stressed for the job. Thus, claimed the article, it was built to carry a bellyful of 1,600-lb AP bombs drop them in a shallow dive, and pull out without ripping off its wings. It used this capability against "Salmon und Gluckstein" in Brest. Big brother Lanc inherited this strength much to its benefit.

luftluuver
05-26-2007, 02:44 PM
A ceiling of 10,000ft when loaded didn't endure the a/c to the crews either.

For anyone who needs a list of RAF specs see,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Air_Ministry_Specifications

Never seen anything about it also to be a dive bomber.

leitmotiv
05-26-2007, 03:07 PM
German flak gunner's best pal with Stirling as next best. GUNNER'S MOON by John Bushby has nasty stories about Manchester flights. He describes the German radar-directed flak as so good by 1942 against isolated bombers it often bracketed them on the first salvo with fatal results.

joeap
05-26-2007, 03:20 PM
Fascinating leitmotiv, got any other stories/info about the effectiveness of flak?

Aaron_GT
05-26-2007, 03:32 PM
The Manchester (and the original dual twin Handley Page concept that was redesigned extensively before it became the Halifax) were designed as mediums - 4000lbs over long distances, 8000lbs over short, and were also intended to have the capability to be catapult launched at overload weight - AFAIK the reason for the high strength. The Handley Page dual twin was seen as something that was never going to get off the ground (so to speak) so was extensively redesigned into the Halifax. I don't know if any vestiges of the catapult launch strengthening survived, but that requirement was dropped quite late - 1938 from memory, on a 1936 specification (P13.36).

The corresponding heavy bomber spec was (from memory) B.12.36 producing the Stirling. If they'd put longer wings and a better bomb bay on the Stirling who knows what would have happened to this somewhat bigger plane.

Aaron_GT
05-26-2007, 03:37 PM
Looking at that list, luuftluver I see that B.32/37 covered the Halifax development from the original HP.56 for P.13/36

leitmotiv
05-26-2007, 04:04 PM
Over the years, joeap, I've found the best info on the effectiveness of German flak, naturally, came from the objects of their affection. The most interesting stories were those from 1941-1942 which confirmed the need for the bomber stream and saturation tactics because radar had made them so good against single bombers bumbling into their flak boxes they were sometimes killing on first salvoes---BLAM YER DEAD! No chance for evasion. That is just absolutely nasty and brutal!