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BigganD
06-15-2005, 10:13 PM
While playing beta 04 you had a very realistic plane behavior, more tactical planing was required in a dogfight. It wasnt all about turn n brun, you needed to economize your energy and use it sensibly. Saving energy was a vital part in 04, by just turning your opponent wasnt essential part.
So..for those who tought that turning was the way to win a dogfight were usaly shot down in first place.

The slide effect made it difficult to aim in dogfight. At low speed your aircraft started to slide sideways, it made aiming much challanging.
As Oleg said that aiming will be more difficult in the final 4.0 wich I cant see it now in the final 4.00 and also in 4.01.

He also mention that you will feel the weight of your plane, in takeoffs,landings and flights.
This was in beta 04 but step by step it got tuned down and now its totaly gone in 4.00-4.01.

The torque effect was just fine, depending on the aircrafts heavyness.
The beta that the pilots tested must have been 04 or a early one.

Everything beta 04 contained reminded me of what Oleg said about the final of patch version 4.00.
All this is gone in 4.00-4.01, I have a feeling that they removed all this because otherwise it wouldnt feel any new when bob releases.

BigganD
06-15-2005, 10:13 PM
While playing beta 04 you had a very realistic plane behavior, more tactical planing was required in a dogfight. It wasnt all about turn n brun, you needed to economize your energy and use it sensibly. Saving energy was a vital part in 04, by just turning your opponent wasnt essential part.
So..for those who tought that turning was the way to win a dogfight were usaly shot down in first place.

The slide effect made it difficult to aim in dogfight. At low speed your aircraft started to slide sideways, it made aiming much challanging.
As Oleg said that aiming will be more difficult in the final 4.0 wich I cant see it now in the final 4.00 and also in 4.01.

He also mention that you will feel the weight of your plane, in takeoffs,landings and flights.
This was in beta 04 but step by step it got tuned down and now its totaly gone in 4.00-4.01.

The torque effect was just fine, depending on the aircrafts heavyness.
The beta that the pilots tested must have been 04 or a early one.

Everything beta 04 contained reminded me of what Oleg said about the final of patch version 4.00.
All this is gone in 4.00-4.01, I have a feeling that they removed all this because otherwise it wouldnt feel any new when bob releases.

VW-IceFire
06-15-2005, 10:17 PM
Just because its harder doesn't mean its right. And on the other side of the coin...just because its the way it is now doesn't mean it won't change in the future.

BigganD
06-15-2005, 10:33 PM
I dont want the game to be "harder" I want it more realistic, and some times the realism makes it harder or easier.

Tvrdi
06-16-2005, 01:26 AM
bigganD....your absolutely right..unfortunately

NerdConnected
06-16-2005, 02:46 AM
BigganD,

I fiddled some time with beta 6 and 7 (okay, not 4) and was a bit disappointed, mainly because AI made some very strange manouvers. It badly influenced the immersion factor.

In 4.01 and 4.00 this has been largely fixed. Not perfect, that's impossible, but for me it's a big improvement over 3.04. I'm certain, I'll never go back to 3.04.

Disagree with energy fighting. You'll have to keep high energy with 4.01 at all times otherwise you're a sitting duck. The new FM is way better than the one used in 3.04. When compared with last beta's; I'm unable to tell the difference, but AI focuses more on high energy now, so I'm happy ;-)

Agree with one thing though. Torque. This seems to have been toned down a bit compared to beta 7. Agree, It would be nice to add a little bit more.

But, all in all, I think the pro's outweigh the con's big time. To me, besides the new clouds, 4.01 feels like a complete new sim and I'm trying all the planes again to see what's changed.

My x ct...

Mark

CyC_AnD
06-16-2005, 03:11 AM
Sorry but you are suprised? I'm not. You thought it will be major changes between 3.04 and 4.0? Hehe go down to earth. I played beta 04, planes was to unstable, at least at speeds (it could be ok during landing and take off). Adding only more stable flight over 300km/h. Low speed handling was very difficult. Now You can climb spit from the deck with 140-150km/h with 40 -45 degrees straight climb without problems (I can proof that, you can test that heh). If this is more real that I thank to Maddox Team for such a big chunk of reality.

And about energy, for me it is same as it was in 3.04, no difference in 4.01, only planes are bit more unstable, and some stalls are different, and a bit of torque (btw. that metal ball is porked, wroking like drunk or smthg), and why after engine off torque is still on place, and when my engine starts to rotate from wind it, plane starts to roll other side...?

zimbower1
06-16-2005, 05:35 AM
In beta 04 we had more realistic behaviour on planes planes at 140km-160km were difficult manoeuverable like it should be.Dogfight lasted longer and you were able to dogfight everyplane with energy even the inferior aircrafts were able to fight those who were superior to them,but thats impossible in 4.01 they get behind you in a instant.ex:Two aircrafts flying head to head on each other, they bypass each other and one of the aircrafts decide to stay in levelflight the other one makes a move by turn in on the aircraft thats flying straight in level flight,now if this was beta 04 the aircraft that turned in behind the aircraft thats flying level flight would be in disadvantage in energy wich would take time to recover their energy.
The plane that was flying level flight would be in advantage. This kind of energy fighting is not possible in 4.01.Beta05 planes were much more unstable and easy to flip over in takeoff.less energy fighting more manoeuverable and torque effect toned down.
Beta 06 fixed 50cals slide effect and torque started to disapear and dogfight lasted for less now.Beta 07 this beta was the worst one,it felt like playing v3.04 no energy fighting no slide effect no weightness all that good from 04 was removed or toned down.I think 04 had some problems compared to 4.00 but it seemed more realistic than all betas and 4.01.
You were forced to plan your manoeuvers before you execute them.Now in 4.00 and 4.01 people got no time for that and the thing they want is great graphics easy game play and alot of action and less realism 4.01 is pure arcade.
Come on, a rookie player can take plan and shoot down a guy who played this game for years, thats wrong if you ask me ,like a chicken without head.It seems like people dont have time to learn the new FM,its not just to pull the joystick and go on full throttle in takeoff.The new FM in 4.01 should be more consistent like in beta 04.

People who wants to test beta 04 only need to rewrite the beta4 file.SFS over the 4.01 file.SFS.
For those who want to give it a try.

RedTop_UK
06-16-2005, 05:53 AM
Beta 04 had awesome FM http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif, i was really looking forward to the 4.00 when i saw the awesome FM done in 04. i have flown a real plane, and i found it more realistic in the 04 leaked beta than the 3.04 by a long way, and is was a welcome challenge to re-learn to fly the planes, now in 401 we are going back to Air-Quake FM http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif, probably because of so many n00bs complaining that they cant fly so the sim must be wrong http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif. It saddens me that the promise of having a switchable FM, which Oleg did say we would get, is now not in it, and we are back with a slightly tweaked 3.04 again.http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif

The new planes are of course welcomed though, so at least i will be happy we do have more a complete sim now. i.e. Japanese Torpedo plane.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

GoToAway
06-16-2005, 06:30 AM
I think that I'll believe these claims about the betas when one of the guys that actually fly prop-driven aircraft for a living decides to comment on it.

I keep seeing "realism" thrown around in relation to the beta, but nobody bothers posting their credentials. In the meantime, many people that have hundreds or even thousands of hours in prop-driven aircraft have expressed satisfaction with 4.00.

I wonder which opinion is more valuable?

Capt._Tenneal
06-16-2005, 08:08 AM
190 bar
.50 cals dispersion
trim on a slider
109 concrete elevator

Now you can add "beta 04" to the list of the classics. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Jens.Faber
06-16-2005, 10:00 AM
Great post http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

I'm also looking for using only beta4 , the FM were far more realistic in beta6 , although i've not flown any real warbird , only gliders , but you could really feel the heaviness of the 3000kg planes like P-47 for example , and had to be more accurate and use energy far more to take advantage of the situations .

this had disappeared in 4.00/4.01 for maybe commercial reasons , i don't know http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

I've heard the beta 4 was even more accurate , that would be kind if someone could give me by mp a link where i can get it , thanks a lot in advance ! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Hetzer_II
06-16-2005, 10:20 AM
amen!

Beckh_3.JG51
06-16-2005, 10:21 AM
I hear what you are saying BigganD, its sad isnt it.

SeaFireLIV
06-16-2005, 10:57 AM
There`s nothing wrong with 4.01 it`s the same as 4.00 except a minor change to FW fuel consump and SBD torque.

Mass hysteria and the `Emperor`s New clothes` happening here...

LBR_Rademacher_
06-16-2005, 11:07 AM
110% agreed

Blackdog5555
06-16-2005, 11:57 AM
All I noticed was that the F6F doesnt flat spin so easy and recovery is more realistic. Thats a good thing. I love the new patch. I would like to hear from a real warbird jock.

WWMaxGunz
06-16-2005, 12:58 PM
Not everyone panicked, some reported seeing no change in torque.
I think I see the names who did squawk are the same who usually do.

Time to get those bridge deeds printed up, I smell sales!

zimbower1
06-17-2005, 03:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BigganD:
While playing beta 04 you had a very realistic plane behavior, more tactical planing was required in a dogfight. It wasnt all about turn n brun, you needed to economize your energy and use it sensibly. Saving energy was a vital part in 04, by just turning your opponent wasnt essential part.
So..for those who tought that turning was the way to win a dogfight were usaly shot down in first place.

The slide effect made it difficult to aim in dogfight. At low speed your aircraft started to slide sideways, it made aiming much challanging.
As Oleg said that aiming will be more difficult in the final 4.0 wich I cant see it now in the final 4.00 and also in 4.01.

He also mention that you will feel the weight of your plane, in takeoffs,landings and flights.
This was in beta 04 but step by step it got tuned down and now its totaly gone in 4.00-4.01.

The torque effect was just fine, depending on the aircrafts heavyness.
The beta that the pilots tested must have been 04 or a early one.

Everything beta 04 contained reminded me of what Oleg said about the final of patch version 4.00.
All this is gone in 4.00-4.01, I have a feeling that they removed all this because otherwise it wouldnt feel any new when bob releases. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would suggest to make a track of beta4.00 and 4.01 and compare it to real guncams manoeuvers so you can see the difference between beta4.00 and 4.01
Some guncams videos can be found here:http://www.wingsofwar.org.uk/guncam.php

Flakenstien
06-17-2005, 04:40 PM
Has it ever occured to anyone that you have practiced 4.0 long enough that you have gotten better? Which is why this placebo effect is happening?
Get over it there is nothing different between the two, I just think many want to have something wrong so they have a reason to come here an complain.

zimbower1
06-17-2005, 06:07 PM
beta 4.00 and 4.00 there is a big difference between them.

GoToAway
06-17-2005, 06:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by zimbower1:
beta 4.00 and 4.00 there is a big difference between them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Then prove it.

People keep whining and crying at the top of their lungs, yet not one of them has ever attempted to prove their claims.

Put up or shut up. Nobody is interested in hearing claims without numbers to back them up.

zimbower1
06-17-2005, 06:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GoToAway:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by zimbower1:
beta 4.00 and 4.00 there is a big difference between them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Then prove it.

People keep whining and crying at the top of their lungs, yet not one of them has ever attempted to prove their claims.
Put up or shut up. Nobody is interested in hearing claims without numbers to back them up.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Plz why do you care? just ignor the post.Its difficult to prove it because people are lazy to learn the new FM thats why 4.01 is so arcadish.They want action and good graphics wich thier computers cant even handle lol.

zimbower1
06-17-2005, 06:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by zimbower1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GoToAway:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by zimbower1:
beta 4.00 and 4.00 there is a big difference between them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Then prove it.

People keep whining and crying at the top of their lungs, yet not one of them has ever attempted to prove their claims.
Put up or shut up. Nobody is interested in hearing claims without numbers to back them up.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Plz why do you care? just ignor the post.Its difficult to prove it because people are lazy to learn the new FM thats why 4.01 is so arcadish.They want action and good graphics wich thier computers cant even handle lol. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I wish il2 was a Consistant game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
People will always whinehttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

crazyivan1970
06-17-2005, 06:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by zimbower1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GoToAway:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by zimbower1:
beta 4.00 and 4.00 there is a big difference between them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Then prove it.

People keep whining and crying at the top of their lungs, yet not one of them has ever attempted to prove their claims.
Put up or shut up. Nobody is interested in hearing claims without numbers to back them up.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Plz why do you care? just ignor the post.Its difficult to prove it because people are lazy to learn the new FM thats why 4.01 is so arcadish.They want action and good graphics wich thier computers cant even handle lol. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You must be helluwa pilot in the real life. Good for you

danjama
06-17-2005, 06:49 PM
i dont see much difference between beta 7 and 4.01 i love the 4.01 it hits the nail on the head IMO. Im not talkin from RL but im sayin what feels right to me. Great upgrade to me. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

zimbower1
06-17-2005, 06:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by danjama:
i dont see much difference between beta 7 and 4.01 i love the 4.01 it hits the nail on the head IMO. Im not talkin from RL but im sayin what feels right to me. Great upgrade to me. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I have no idea why you mention beta 7 when we are actualy discussing about patch 4.00 beta not patch 4.00 (beta 07) plz stick to the subjecthttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

GoToAway
06-17-2005, 07:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by zimbower1:
Plz why do you care? just ignor the post.Its difficult to prove it because people are lazy to learn the new FM thats why 4.01 is so arcadish.They want action and good graphics wich thier computers cant even handle lol. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I care because I'm sick of seeing clueless people claiming the same thing over and over without making an attempt to prove it. You make these claims, yet offer NOTHING. Put up or shut up.

Standing against you is the lead programmer of the IL-2 series and various plauyers that have made tracks and compared 4.00 to 4.01 on a second-by-second basis and found NO difference in flight modeling.

If you are going to keep whining, offer some evidence. Otherwise, kindly shut up. Those of us interested in more important things are getting rather sick of listening to what people "feel" and "think."

zimbower1
06-17-2005, 07:08 PM
GoToAway

Once again we are talking about beta 4.00 (04).Difference between beta 4.00 and version 4.00m.hehe no one is forcing you to listen or read http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

GoToAway
06-17-2005, 07:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by zimbower1:
GoToAway

Once again we are talking about beta 4.00 (04).Difference between beta 4.00 and version 4.00m.hehe no one is forcing you to listen or read http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Sorry, I'm just losing track of the whines.

Would you mind if I ask your basis for determining which flight model is most realistic? Are you a pilot? Have you flown high powered, light weight, single seat aircraft?

zimbower1
06-17-2005, 07:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GoToAway:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by zimbower1:
GoToAway

Once again we are talking about beta 4.00 (04).Difference between beta 4.00 and version 4.00m.hehe no one is forcing you to listen or read http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Sorry, I'm just losing track of the whines.

Would you mind if I ask your basis for determining which flight model is most realistic? Are you a pilot? Have you flown high powered, light weight, single seat aircraft? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
A arelative of mine is a real pilot.He tried this game beta 04 when he was here on visit and he thought it was fatastic aircraft behaviours.he told me that its a shame he dont have time for playing il2 its a great game.
Uppsala,Sweden F16
He had tried 3.04 but he said it wasnt even close to realistic behaviour FM.But he like the 3d models alot.

NorrisMcWhirter
06-17-2005, 07:51 PM
I must admit that I liked beta 4 more than 4.01 and I think, as supported by the time frame, that the '40 pilots endorsed it blurb' does relate to the early beta releases and not '3.04 plus plus' as we have now.

It may well be that it may have stolen the thunder from BoB had something like beta 4 remained but it may also have been too much of an FM step change for the average punter to stomach. It could have been toggled but that would have caused more aggro and two lots of FMs to test. So, I doubt it was ever seriously considered.

Regardless, time will prove who is most correct in this argument as BoB will either have something akin to 4.01 or beta 4 in terms of FM.

Ta,
Norris

gkll
06-18-2005, 12:24 AM
Finally got a bit of time and loaded the 4.01 and 04 beta and tried them out, couple of quick knife fights with my son in 'standard' settings, aircraft we like and so on.

Anyways they are both nice but 04 is more fun to fly. By no means outrageously difficult by any means, seems a very nice balance. Very nice.

Hats off to 1c and thanks, many of us have been asking for such a fm for a long time. I will keep 04 beta for fun and practice, 4.01 for online.

What I suspect and hope is that if I really go after smooth flying and properly coordinated flight the gain will be more than 3.04, to be smooth and keep e while still turning hard may pay off to a greater degree....

Again thanks 1c for giving us what we asked for. I believe new subtleties in flight behaviour may found with some practice?

-HH-Quazi
06-18-2005, 12:39 AM
Install 4.01m over 3.04m and you will have the same FM patch. Installed any other way, no telling what you will get. I can't see or feel any difference. I think most that say there are differences in FM's between the two installed 4.01m over 4.00m. I you are one of these, then try 4.01m over 3.04m. The man has already let everyone know of the only two changes. And do you really believe that changing the FM's in a week is possible, given it took the better part of 6 months to build it with 2 months of testing? Not likely. So install the patch over 3.04m like the readme says to, and enjoy it.

jurinko
06-18-2005, 12:43 AM
The torque, at least for these two planes, is equal in 400 and 401. i did simple test in 4.00m.. started in bf109 in default Okinawa map, 110% trhottle and without any input waited until the crosshair passes the horizont down and after getting some speed, it will pass the horizont up. The plane yaws because of the torque. If the torque is different, the moment of gunight center passing the horizont should be different.

It perfectly matches with 4.01m - 26sec and the screenshots are 100% identical in that moment.

I tested also F6F taking off with tail wheel locked, 110%/120mix from the carrier without any input, checking at which moment it will leave the board and fall into the water. If the torque is weaker, it should stay on board for longer period. It perfectly matches again.

gkll
06-18-2005, 12:51 AM
HH and Jurinko you misunderstand. The thread is comparing the 04 beta to 4.01, &lt;not&gt; 4.00 to 4.01. Personally I have not nor will I bother loading 4.00.

Although really by the time more than half the people have misinterpreted the original poster(s) maybe the thread could be said to have morphed into a thread about 4.00 to 4.01, that sort of thing is common enough as we all thrash about in the crackling ether... ha ha.

JG54_Arnie
06-18-2005, 01:51 AM
Kind of pointless to want to fly beta04. What makes you people think its so much better than 4.01 ? Its just based on feeling right? Nothing more, nothing less?

Get someone who knows about this stuff, has flown planes in real life and let him tell you what is what.

Go fly 3.04 and then load up 4.01 and take it from there. The difference will be very obvious. Seeing all this confirms that its quite sad that those beta´s leaked. Now there´s people looking for uberrealism playing a betaversion of a game, while the latest version is actually what Oleg aimed for? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

gkll
06-18-2005, 02:59 AM
JG54

I can easily imagine a scenario where 1c plays with the new FM until it is, in their subjective and objective judgement, 'right'. This might be beta 04... then they back off until it is right for release, something else again.

Not saying this is correct, however just note how positive you sound in your post... no acknowledgement that the other side might be right....

Anyway I like the feel of 04 better, and I suspect it is more realistic in terms of physics. I do acknowledge I might be wrong, however I will still enjoy flying it more.....

4.01 is bloody nice nonetheless, no complaints here.

WTE_Ibis
06-18-2005, 03:25 AM
Can someone tell me where I can get 04 so that I can compare to 4 and 4.1??
I woukd appreciate the chance to sort this for myself,thanks.

JG54_Arnie
06-18-2005, 04:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gkll:
JG54

I can easily imagine a scenario where 1c plays with the new FM until it is, in their subjective and objective judgement, 'right'. This might be beta 04... then they back off until it is right for release, something else again.

Not saying this is correct, however just note how positive you sound in your post... no acknowledgement that the other side might be right....

4.01 is bloody nice nonetheless, no complaints here. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Why dont you think they have played with it till it was in their judgement right --&gt; 4.01 ? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
My point is that you cannot really say they should have stayed at 04, only if you get a real pilot to say that, then it might actually mean something. Just basing it on what, according to your feelings, a WW2 fighter should fly like is a just limiting yourself to something that might not be real after all.
And I´m not claiming 4.01 is much more real than beta04, I wouldnt know. But after flying 05, 06 and now 4.01 I find 4.01 more polished, it certainly doesnt feel less realistic to me.

And looking at all those people who were screaming it got toned down again from 4.00 to 4.01, while nothing happened.. it seems like an psychological issue, people expect change and all of sudden everything must have changed. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

A question for those prefering beta04, how long did you actually fly 4.01 ? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

SeaFireLIV
06-18-2005, 04:53 AM
ahem.

Students of Psychology and psychoanalysis of the unconscous Human mind:

I`m glad you were all able to make it to this forum so you can observe in actual real life practise that which I`ve been teaching you about over the last year...

This website, is a simple flight-sim-gaming discussion forum frequented by passionate users of IL2 FB/Pacific Fighters and it demonstrates in microsm the possible behaviour of Human beings when a rumour begins. See how it gathers pace, developes and subsequently runs wild. We call this the `Human forest fire effect`, and like any forest fire it can be extremely difficult to put out.

Observe, my students, that when people get an idea in their heads that`s hard to quantify, conjecture will run wild, refusing to stop. Even statements of actual changes made (from official sources) in an attempt to bring sanity will be disbelieved with some people turning to mild conspiracy theories.

Note that nearly all, if not all theories tend to be based on no actual facts, only suppositions and feelings. Mixed with the `mob` mentality. it can be a dangerous combination.

Remember this could happen to YOU!

Now, I want you to right a paper on your observations and hand them in to me for Monday .

zimbower1
06-18-2005, 07:59 AM
Seafire i guess you havent tried beta04http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gifSeafire download the beta and try it out before you post bs like this.
get down to earth and see whats concealed.
Stop copy and past method http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Those who have tried it im sure they are satisfied.
Seafire no need for ruing this thread like you usualy do.You are taking this to seriously http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif
cheers
Just download the 04 your self and try it before you state somthing.

BigganD
06-18-2005, 08:57 AM
Played last night with 14 players beta 04, fantastic http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I will enjoy both 4.01 and beta 04.
Be sure beta lovers that BoB will have a similar FM as 04 has but much more advanced http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

JG5_UnKle
06-18-2005, 09:44 AM
Beta04 was excellent, the torque was much more pronounced. If you haven't tried it then pester a friend or bug someone try to get hold of it.

You guys that are banging on about 4.00 vs 4.01m are not talking about the same topic.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif
OK I've only flown light aircraft and only 3 types at that but it doesn't take a genius to work out that a 2800hp 3 ton fighter shouldn't be able to go full power in slow climbs and feel little torque, like we have in 4.01m

But I'm not qualified enough to give more than an opinion, like most of us http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I don't have a 190 to jump into.....

karost
06-18-2005, 06:58 PM
Hi, Guys http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I like to know who will play/host beta 04 for holiday week end. it will be batter if I/we can see schedule and info so alot of old hands friends will make a meeting in HL at the right time http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Thanks,

S!

zimbower1
06-19-2005, 07:34 AM
Hi m8s,i will be hosting beta04 8mbit server for 20 players all welcome with beta04 try out.

irR4tiOn4L
06-19-2005, 08:49 AM
Does anyone have an idea where i could get beta 4? I love 4.01 but seeing as i play mostly offline and lan this would be great to try.

Thanks in advance!

zimbower1
06-19-2005, 01:57 PM
Hi m8s, Im going to host on 20th monday 20.00pm european time on HL.

Tachyon1000
06-19-2005, 04:25 PM
I played beta 05 for some time and I don't really see much of differnce between it and 4.01. Perhaps there are significant differences. If there are I'd like someone to post tests to that effect. Thanks.

zimbower1
06-19-2005, 07:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tachyon1000:
I played beta 05 for some time and I don't really see much of differnce between it and 4.01. Perhaps there are significant differences. If there are I'd like someone to post tests to that effect. Thanks. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

More you go forward in betas its less realistic and concistant.And to remind you we are talking about beta04m not beta05.In 4.01 we have same I-185 like an helicopter ,yak circeling 109s in tight turns and LA 7 flying like rocket,109s stresslimit rediculous but cant even tur a yak and la for 2 sec in tight turn ,stresslimits sky high like in 3.04 and they are happy to announce the release of the Pacific Fighters free add-on! introduces the next generation pre-Battle of Britain Flight Model (FM), They must be joking, none of this is true same fm from 3.04 only without energyfights.Rookies are able to shoot down a player with 2 years of experience this reminds me of an arcade game.
People cant see the difference because they have not tried (beta 4.00m) its not beta 05 06 07 they are equaly the same as 4.01 but only some things left to remove and its pure 3.04 slowdown dogfights and fixed some bugs.
If they just could admit that they want to sell the new FM meny of us would be satisfied.

irR4tiOn4L
06-19-2005, 09:18 PM
please - beta 4 - where

zimbower1
06-24-2005, 07:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by irR4tiOn4L:
please - beta 4 - where </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Check your private posts

Kocur_
06-24-2005, 08:34 AM
I have a simple idea: let there be another button in realism settings: setting it on would make things like in beta04, setting it off would make it as in 4.01m. May it be called, lets say ''Inertial effects''. 1C would make lots of people here smile! And grateful!

F_vonIzabelin
06-24-2005, 08:52 AM
heh, thats what we are trying to make Oleg do for a long time...
Make two versions, Standard Edition, let the 13 old n00bs from Kansas play them, and all those you don't whine as we do.
Make a "Professional Edition" for us whiners, take 20$ more for it, I am sure it will be a great succes.
All the n00bs and fanboys will be happy, and all us whiners will be to.

But why not?
Becuase Oleg is afraid, that the n00bs, if they will not be able to fly, becuase reading a aerodyanmics book is to hard for them, will whine (instead of us for a changehttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif that it is too hard, R U aviation Engineers or what etc..:P
They wan't to be uber-super-gangsta pilots and all that **** ,after 30 min. of flying.
I know that money rules the market and this game since FB, but if you could think a bit, you could make two versions:P and catch cash from all.
Or even better, to minimize costs, make a switch, not that "realistic" LOL thing from the game, but Pro and Std edition switch...

F_vonIzabelin
06-24-2005, 09:02 AM
and BTW, beta rc2 to rc4 were the best, it was almost like the old il-2, really good (and lot's of fun)

Quakeman
06-24-2005, 09:45 AM
Bravissimo!

This thread keeps me faithful in people who claim this game goes down. So, there's more trolls on this earth than me. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

For me, latest patch made no progress, that's all. It's strange and I don't understand it, how the makers of Il2 Sturmovik could produce such a "arcade shooter". Maybe this is a new trend of XXI century. If civilization falls, let's fall with it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Or, after all, this is a sophisticated test for BoB, which can show Oleg the opinions about new BoB FM. For a short time (beta 04) people could see pre-BoB FM and this experiment was closed. Just thinking...

Personally, I can say: I expect from "the best sim ever" or every flight sim, which claims to be realistic, maximal possible reality as XXI century programming possibilities can bring to us. Otherwise I must say, professionalism is dead. And go fly LockOn Flaming Cliffs...

Salute Trolls! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

Flight Simulation Lover

F_vonIzabelin
06-24-2005, 09:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Otherwise I must say, professionalism is dead. And go fly LockOn Flaming Cliffs...

Salute Trolls! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

Flight Simulation Lover </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The problem is, that I do not like jets to much, and I wan't to fly my beloved prop pitch fw-190 etc..
I wan't to fly on Czechwar and other virtual fronts.
Lock on doesnt let me do that.

Which doesnt change that Patch 4.01m is better than 3.04m (just for one thing, mg151/20:P) but it is still tragic, and a long way to go (rather go back to il-2 engine.)

Quakeman
06-24-2005, 11:25 AM
In one case I must defend Oleg. He went too far with great number of flyable planes instead greater realism. That was the blind alley. As life shows you cannot make so many flight models properly with almost 100 aircrafts. But I'm thankful for Fiat G.50, Fiat CR.42, Brewster Buffalo, PZL P.11c and many other planes. This is great. Pity, that practically great number of them fly in a same way.

For me one thing is important: relativity between planes. Work with patch should begin from comparison. For example Fw-190A8 relative to La-7, Bf 109G2 to Jak-9, etc.

But it takes time, I understand it.

joeap
06-24-2005, 12:07 PM
Idiocy continues.

BigganD
06-24-2005, 03:24 PM
Arcade players that cant see the real situation keeps poping up.. (joeap) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

zimbower1
06-24-2005, 03:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by joeap:
Idiocy continues. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I see that Joeap has full comprehension on what we are discussing about http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

crazyivan1970
06-24-2005, 03:27 PM
No Biggan, i see bunch of confused people http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Snap out of it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

It`s been proven already that there is no differences. But you guys can keep going on that... play 4.0 - nobody stops you hehe.

Badsight.
06-24-2005, 03:28 PM
Beta 04 was over the top in difficulty

beta 06 = just what the 4.0 patch should have been

crazyivan1970
06-24-2005, 03:32 PM
You liked that MG151 belt loading in 06, didn`t you Badsight http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

BigganD
06-24-2005, 03:33 PM
Crazyivan, people are not dum, meny have noticed that this isnt the fm that Oleg have promised. How much did they pay you for defending the 4.01 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif (no offence)

crazyivan1970
06-24-2005, 03:39 PM
Actually i see rather small group of people still believing in 4.0 fenomen, hey - good luck to them. No, i don`t get paid neither by 1C, Oleg or UBI. And no, i am not defending the 401, i am just stating the obvious. Hey, it`s a free country... if you think 4.0 is what it should be, be my guest -enjoy it. But do me a favor, stop confusing people, because they PT me like crazy asking what to do. Mmmkey? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Thanks!

Badsight.
06-24-2005, 03:41 PM
yes ivan ive read that the MG151 were incorrect in all the betas

i didnt mean that at all

it was the AI & the way it flew is why i like 06

04 was a nightmare to fight in really , it & 05 you HAD to have speed to pull off a good hard manouver , under 300 you were deadmeat for turning ability

06 eased up a little on the speed necessity but nowhere near as much as 07 did

beta 06 was just what i was expecting v4.0 to be

& i dont mean the MG151s here

zimbower1
06-24-2005, 03:42 PM
Ivan even realpilots that are playing PF do
realize that somthing wrong with it patch4.01.
We are not discussing about Patch 4.00m we are discussing about patch 4.00m"beta" that was tested by 40 real pilots.
I even you have noticed it and told us that somthing wasnt right and that you would check it out next day you only came with some "bug fixes" on 2 planes, lol.4.01 should be dedicated server and some bug fixes it didnt mean converting it back to 3.04 and removing slideeffect,cooridate flying, tunedown torque and less accurate in damadge modeling.
Not even mention why the patch 4.01 is like it is now. you cant even turn some planes less than 3sec, thats wrong cant you realize it?
Well ivan thx, im only trying to explane to people what was realy consealed the real BoB FM in 04(beta)

crazyivan1970
06-24-2005, 03:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by zimbower1:
Ivan even realpilots that are playing PF do
realize that somthing wrong with it patch4.01.
We are not discussing about Patch 4.00m we are discussing about patch 4.00m"beta" that was tested by 40 real pilots.
I even you have noticed it and told us that somthing wasnt right and that you would check it out next day you only came with some "bug fixes" on 2 planes, lol.4.01 should be dedicated server and some bug fixes it didnt mean converting it back to 3.04 and removing slideeffect,cooridate flying, tunedown torque and less accurate in damadge modeling.
Not even mention why the patch 4.01 is like it is now. you cant even turn some planes or 3sec thats wrong cant you realize it? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, i did say that it didn`t sound right, because of mass panic and even people who i thought i can trust went along with it. When i got home and run side by side 4.0 and 401... i realized that there is no difference. Then i did what Soldatenkov (lead programmer) told me to do with watching controls between a vserions and it matched 100%. Then i spoke to Oleg on the phone and he confirmed just those two changes. This is what i suggest you, run them side by side. Take your time. I have betas 2, 6, 7 installed and 4.0 and 401. So i have something to compare with.
What amazes me the most, that you guys think that you are being lied to. For what purpose, tell me please?

Badsight.
06-24-2005, 03:48 PM
Ivan , check this thread

im not the only person to see .trk files as buggy

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/1441058233

Kocur_
06-24-2005, 03:51 PM
Seems we are in need of clear nomenclature. Let there be:
- 4.xx patches
- betas0x

Dont think the topic ever was about 4.00 and 4.01.
It was supposed to be about beta04 and 4.01 IMOhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

crazyivan1970
06-24-2005, 03:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Badsight.:
Ivan , check this thread

im not the only person to see .trk files as buggy

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/1441058233 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don`t know how to explain it Bs, my trks matched. What can i say.

@Kocur, you have a good point, because personally i see 4.0 is great and 401 is back to 304... so how people suppose to understand?

JG53Frankyboy
06-24-2005, 04:03 PM
the only thing i miss is the Zero eleavator responsibility from BETA6 . hell it could turn , even over 400km/h IAS . you got very fast a black out.
impossible in 3.04 , and again impossible in 4.01 (from BETA7 on)

zimbower1
06-24-2005, 04:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Badsight.:
Ivan , check this thread

im not the only person to see .trk files as buggy

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/1441058233 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don`t know how to explain it Bs, my trks matched. What can i say.

@Kocur, you have a good point, because personally i see 4.0 is great and 401 is back to 304... so how people suppose to understand? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Stick to the subject m8s http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Kocur_
06-24-2005, 04:21 PM
Back to rehttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
I flew beta04. And liked it! Finally no rails in the sky! Finally inertia! Finally no way a plane dangerously close to stall could shoot at plane 500m above with any accuracy...Finally flying ALL planes took thinking a step ahead! Finally no fly-by-wire-like planes behaviour! Really great!
All, or almost all, of that was lost on the way to 4.01 obviouslyhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif If beta04 FM stayed it would be a revolution - in positive meaninghttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif And for many - rebirth of Il2 series. I can imagine umm...marketing issues influence on final 4.01 FM... Still is it not worth consideration to add another button in realism settings? "Inertial effects"...? Perhaps not as strong as in beta04. But adding ability to choose FM closer to beta04 would make many people really, really glad. And without offending those who are unhappy even with 4.01...

Badsight.
06-24-2005, 04:36 PM
did you get to try beta 06 ?

carguy_
06-24-2005, 04:50 PM
I agree beta6 was the best.B7 was already too much of 3.04.

Feels like 4.01 is 3.04 and B7 mix.

Kwiatos
06-24-2005, 05:07 PM
For me beta 06 was the best in FM. There were some small bugs but absolulty the best! I dont mean firepower, dm etc only general FM energy bleed, torque.

Kocur_
06-24-2005, 05:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Badsight.:
did you get to try beta 06 ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Unfortunately not.

heywooood
06-24-2005, 05:31 PM
its good that all those beta's were leaked, its real good. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

4.01 is official - all others are useless to compare.

This is a slippery slope of 'feelings' and 'preferrences' only.

Heres hoping all of Olegs anti-fans will take their 04,05,06,07,etc betas for a flying f^ck through a rolling donut.

CyC_AnD
06-24-2005, 05:34 PM
It always was like this, and it will be in the future. We hear a lot f.e. from Ian Boys, about patch testing, or like it was when fb was coming up. He said, many things that we liked a lot, like: mig3 is now very hard to control on low speed and full throtlle. We saw that on beta, it seemed very realistic. And then... always official things came up and we saw completly different story. Now Im sure this sim wont be any better, not becouse of Oleg team, but becouse of comunity that blindly belives what is said to it, and doesnt want to have realistic sim.

Kostek wanted to show you some proof, of how some thing looks like in real, now you say it doesnt matter. You scream about proofs, and when we want to give you any, you say it means bs. So make up your mind, or just dont anticipate in topics you dont like. If you dont have to say anything in topic, stay out, and let ppl discuss about issues they want to talk about. Is for this is public forum? Or most of ppl here just like to flame any person that have other point of view?

cheers.

Kocur_
06-24-2005, 05:59 PM
To all Il2 fans who care for it to be better: in sake of not soon-closing this topic lets ignore heywooood's post, please.

NonWonderDog
06-24-2005, 06:17 PM
This thread is just wrong. 4.01 is the official, that's what we have. If you think something's wrong and can demonstrate it, do so. Don't whine that it was better in a leaked beta that you weren't supposed to have in the first place and that it was "porked" because it was "too realistic." It's just rude, on so many levels.

zimbower1
06-24-2005, 07:01 PM
I will post some tracks from beta 04 for people to see the real difference compared to 4.01.
Later on i will record 1v1(player vs player) track with different plane set.

Badsight.
06-24-2005, 07:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by heywooood:
its good that all those beta's were leaked, its real good. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

4.01 is official - all others are useless to compare.

This is a slippery slope of 'feelings' and 'preferrences' only.

Heres hoping all of Olegs anti-fans will take their 04,05,06,07,etc betas for a flying f^ck through a rolling donut. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>you dont know what your missing

the AI were fantastic to fight in the Betas

the FM was more extreme than v400m or v4.01 , when you dove , you dropped like a stone , real speed was needed to complete hard manouvers

its easy to diss , but you really need to have tried it before you do

everyone else who tried them , preferred them

says something doesnt it

heywooood
06-24-2005, 09:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by zimbower1:
I will post some tracks from beta 04 for people to see the real difference compared to 4.01.
Later on i will record 1v1(player vs player) track with different plane set. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

good on you...all this flappin' is a wasted effort without a comparative example...

And Badsite - I'm not missing it at all.
the 4.01m is official - its a marked improvement over 3.04 - and the new FM and AI improvements are significant. Without the other betas on my hard drive I dont care whats on 'em.

And if contradiction is good for the sake of arguement - whats wrong with me contradicting the thrust of this thread?...thats...ermmm contradictory, no?

I dont remember who said it but I agree...

Muzzle Flash
.50 cals
190 cockpit bars
and now...betas were better than &gt; 4.01

ad nauseum

Badsight.
06-25-2005, 12:09 AM
well without any experience how are you abel to judge ?

take it from me & others that played them

the FM was a lot different to what we have , you'd love it , & the AI especially were doing really crafty stuff

one of the beta's was exactly what i was hoping for for this sim

heywooood
06-25-2005, 12:15 AM
thats just it - I am unwilling to take it from you and 'others'...

What experience do you have exactly?...combat flying?...programming?...

Oleg has both. I have what I need. You guys have what you WANT. there is a huge difference.

FreelancerBR
06-25-2005, 12:37 AM
Where can i get the Beta04 merged patch please?

Badsight.
06-25-2005, 12:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by heywooood:
thats just it - I am unwilling to take it from you and 'others'.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>well your not getting at what im saying here

beta 06 , , ive played it , you havent

i see your quick to knock it , but you didnt try it

my experience with it matches just about what other people also said about it

much more realistic than what we have now , & with better AI to boot , you had massive dive accelleration , you had a greater sense of airflow

the AI , they fly in the beta's like they actually have brains

it helps to listen to what people who tried say about it if you hadnt tried it yourself when your trying to talk about it heywooood

by all means stick up for the "improvements" in v4.01 over 3.04

just dont try and say that its all good or couldnt have been better

heywooood
06-25-2005, 01:04 AM
Well we arent getting each other then - because as I said..it doesnt matter to me what you and others like about the betas - it might 'feel' better to you than 4.01 and thats cool.

The FM in 4.01 is much improved over 3.04 and even if I loaded and tested a beta 04 or whatever and liked it better...doesn't matter - I am as unqualified as you are to say that better is righter, do you see? 04 beta might 'feel' better to a gamer...but I want what the pilot that designed the sim wants...I want what is really right or as close as I can get.

..Why do I feel like this is some kind of Willy Wonka nightmare and Oleg is lurking to see who takes the Slugworth baita....

Badsight.
06-25-2005, 03:14 AM
you discount your opinion & play up the games makers opinion too eaisly . . . .

theres obvious changes in v4.01

those changes being official doesnt make them the best ones

carguy_
06-25-2005, 05:45 AM
I`m not whining for it to be changed.Market laws are stronger than hardcore simmer`s opinion.

Though refuse I to be a believer for the sake of believing.Oleg is an engineer and he has WWII pilots to test new FM.Does that mean new FM is realistic?There is no equation between knowledge and actual will to resemble real physics laws.

Fanboys` problem is that they take whatever they dl for granted and yet try to convince the same POV to those that actually know what is wrong.
Yes,it is very comfortable being a part of majority which is blind,although so big that it can force it`s POV to a standard.Ofcourse!The majority says its ok so it must be ok!


Some of us know we are being served bollocks though.Undocumented changes stand out and you can do nothing about it.


Fanboys:"Oleg!We heard someone fart!It stinks in here!"
Oleg:"Whaaa?No,you must be mistaking.I didn`t heard anything.Doesn`t stink here either.No one farted."
Fanboys:"Aaaah,ok Oleg.We just noticed this smell doesn`t stink at all."

Kocur_
06-25-2005, 06:01 AM
Abschusshttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"Market laws are stronger than hardcore simmer`s opinion." - sadly true...But why not make everyone happy? Why not add another button?

Kocur_
06-25-2005, 06:25 AM
Gents! Lets face it: there will be no change of FM to make it any harder. Already with 4.01 there is so much complaining. I dont think that ipossibility its due to any technical issues, simply marketing.
FM of beta04- or 06-like will not ever be the only one in the game. The only way, i belive we can hope for,to introduce FM for "hardcore simmers" is making FM changable by switching one more button, named in some gentle manner, that would be added in "realism settings". I can see no other hope or solution.
It is clear that those who liked or would like betas are minority. Yet arent we group of customers large enough to be attractive for Ubi?
Im new around here, so i dont know: were there in past any attempts by community to convince Ubi/1C to make certain changes? Any successful? Would it be worth trying that one? Especially since 4.xx series is to be an open testing of elements of BoB. Why not try to point out to developers that such a solution in BoB would let Ubi satisfy both groups of "flyers", and that it could be tested in next patch(es) of 4.0x series?

zimbower1
06-25-2005, 09:55 AM
Those of you who wants to see the beta04 Fm in action.Send me your email adress so i can send you a track from beta 04.
You want the proof youll get it, but can you handle it?http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

TAGERT.
06-25-2005, 10:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CyC_AnD:
Now You can climb spit from the deck with 140-150km/h with 40 -45 degrees straight climb without problems (I can proof that, </div></BLOCKQUOTE>You may think you proof that, but you only proved how bad your eyes are. From another related post i.e.

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/26310365/m/3481070333/p/2

You provided your proof in the form of a track file and stated

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CyC_AnD:
For my eyeballs, plane is flying 45 degrees nose up with 130km/h ias, and smoke indicates about 30 degrees climb, </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Key thing to NOTE here is the "my eyeballs" assertion.

http://www.geocities.com/grantsenn/4ALL2SEE/FLIGHT_TESTS/CyC_AnD_error/sustainedclimb_pitch.JPG

As you can see from the graph, CyC's pitch never exceeded 40? let alone 45? and only broke 35? for a few moments and averaged about 30?. So, as I said so many times, a human, especially an untrained one makes for a very poor calibration device. Even with experience there tends to be a large margin of error. If only people would take a long hard look in the mirror and consider the chance that they are the cause of the error instead of a bug in the program. We would surly have alot less boy crys wolf theards in the forum.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CyC_AnD:
rest of math do yourself... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Too bad your math has bad inputs, your lying eyes! Thus the old saying, garbage in, garbage out! Me on the other hand, I took a stab and deriving the AoA from the DL data. As I said before, not perfect! But, as even you must admit now, much better than using your lying eyes! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Oh, and for all you anal experts out there, I disregarded the aoi! I don't have it for the spit, but what ever it is, it would be a constant, and simply shift the data/graph.

http://www.geocities.com/grantsenn/4ALL2SEE/FLIGHT_TESTS/CyC_AnD_error/sustainedclimb_aoa.JPG

Note, it has about the same shape as the pitch, something you would half expect in a simply flat climb test.. But, anything other than that and all bets are off!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CyC_AnD:
you can test that heh). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I *did* and tests show you need glasses heh.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CyC_AnD:
If this is more real that I thank to Maddox Team for such a big chunk of reality. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Said the boy who cried wolf.

joeap
06-25-2005, 03:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BigganD:
Arcade players that cant see the real situation keeps poping up.. (joeap) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm no arcade player *******, why would I play SH3 with realism mods, probably will get Falcon 4.0 and Dangerous Waters, and play hex based land wargames, not FPS.

So **** off and crawl back to your hole boy. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

DM100
06-25-2005, 04:14 PM
It seems that everyone has this beta04 except me.... WHERE I CAN GET IT!?SEND ME LINK PLEASE!

BigganD
06-25-2005, 05:36 PM
*ignoring joeap* (just a flamer http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif )

Lucius_Esox
06-25-2005, 06:50 PM
I'm missing something here. I must be a moron I suppose http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif but I cant really tell any difference between 4.00 and 4.01 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Not trying to kiss ar*e either. They were both harder than 3.04, and felt more realistic.

Whats the word........ anal!!!

zimbower1
06-25-2005, 07:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Lucius_Esox:
I'm missing something here. I must be a moron I suppose http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif but I cant really tell any difference between 4.00 and 4.01 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Not trying to kiss ar*e either. They were both harder than 3.04, and felt more realistic.

Whats the word........ anal!!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

M8, we are discussing about patch 4.00m(beta)to 4.01 not 4.00m to 401.
Cheeers

Lucius_Esox
06-26-2005, 03:38 AM
Doh!!! sorry about that I thought 4.00 WAS the beta http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I really am a Moron.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

joeap
06-26-2005, 06:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BigganD:
*ignoring joeap* (just a flamer http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif ) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And til you apologise you are just a d.i.c.k

irR4tiOn4L
06-26-2005, 09:07 AM
I would like to just say that some of us are still interested in seeing beta 4. IF it is allowed and available we would greatly appreciate being pointed in the right direction - theres plenty of free ftp services out there too.

any help greatly appreciated