PDA

View Full Version : Highly Recommended to augment your IL2 experience!



mean_mango
07-09-2005, 01:03 PM
Who here has read "Stick and Rudder" by Wolfgang Langewiesche? I picked it up on a whim since I was going to be away from my PC a couple of weeks.

What a gem! I'm about 200 pages in (50%) and it's just a thrill to read. Specifically because:

1) It precisely explains how a plane behaves as it passes through the air, and the effects of the controls/control surfaces on the aircraft. Believe me, your questions will be answered here. Everything I've wondered about after simming for so long has been cleared up. Unless you're a real pilot (and maybe even if you are) he takes the art of flying deeper than you've ever thought of before.

2) You'll have a whole new appreciation for just how detailed Oleg's flight model is. Every subtle nuance of the plane, every effect and side-effect of the control inputs, pretty much all I've read except of course, flying "by the seat of your pants" can be experienced in this sim. Therefor, IL2 is explained in this book! Not sure about torque? Wondering why your compass is flipping out on you? It's all ironed out here.

3) Because the book was first published in 1945 (yep, you read that right) it is particularly relavent to the aircraft in this game, both fighters and bombers. I think this makes it particularly more valueable than a more modern text.

The book does have it's nay-sayers, and obviously some of his predictions about flying don't come true (you'll see what I mean), but his understanding of these birds seem to make perfect sense to me.

I haven't yet come back to simming, but I fully expect that not only will I enjoy flying so much more, this knowledge will help me perform much better! If anyone else has read this, please join in! Let us know if it has had any visible affect on your flight simming (or real flying!!).

mean_mango
07-09-2005, 01:03 PM
Who here has read "Stick and Rudder" by Wolfgang Langewiesche? I picked it up on a whim since I was going to be away from my PC a couple of weeks.

What a gem! I'm about 200 pages in (50%) and it's just a thrill to read. Specifically because:

1) It precisely explains how a plane behaves as it passes through the air, and the effects of the controls/control surfaces on the aircraft. Believe me, your questions will be answered here. Everything I've wondered about after simming for so long has been cleared up. Unless you're a real pilot (and maybe even if you are) he takes the art of flying deeper than you've ever thought of before.

2) You'll have a whole new appreciation for just how detailed Oleg's flight model is. Every subtle nuance of the plane, every effect and side-effect of the control inputs, pretty much all I've read except of course, flying "by the seat of your pants" can be experienced in this sim. Therefor, IL2 is explained in this book! Not sure about torque? Wondering why your compass is flipping out on you? It's all ironed out here.

3) Because the book was first published in 1945 (yep, you read that right) it is particularly relavent to the aircraft in this game, both fighters and bombers. I think this makes it particularly more valueable than a more modern text.

The book does have it's nay-sayers, and obviously some of his predictions about flying don't come true (you'll see what I mean), but his understanding of these birds seem to make perfect sense to me.

I haven't yet come back to simming, but I fully expect that not only will I enjoy flying so much more, this knowledge will help me perform much better! If anyone else has read this, please join in! Let us know if it has had any visible affect on your flight simming (or real flying!!).

Feathered_IV
07-10-2005, 03:21 AM
Hmm. I think I recall seeing a copy of that in my local library. I'll have to check that one out. Thanks! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Capt_Haddock
07-10-2005, 04:22 AM
Thanks for the tip. It sounds like good summer reading. I just ordered it from Amazon http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.haddock.f2s.com/sig/F19bannerh2.jpg

Tallyho1961
07-10-2005, 06:46 AM
Excellent idea!

In the movie Tuskegee Airmen, I'm almost sure we see one of the pilots reading a copy of Stick and Rudder, which would mean it was published no later than, say, 1942. Is the movie inaccurate or, could the book be earlier than '45?

AFSG_Bulldog
07-10-2005, 09:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tallyho1961:
Is the movie inaccurate or, could the book be earlier than '45? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL.. basically all movies are inaccurate to a degree. Stick and Rudder was copywrited in 1944. Although the movie never really states the year, I am guessing by the storyline it is around 1942 because Mrs Rosevelt got her ride with one of the Tuskegee pilots on 19-Apr-41.

Not long after Mrs. Roosevelt's return to Washington, it was announced that "the first Negro Air Corps pilots would be trained at Tuskegee Institute".

On March 7, 1942, black pilots stood on Tuskegee's airstrip, for induction into the U.S. Army Air Corps. Eight days later the 100th Fighter Squadron was established as a part of the 332nd Fighter Group.

mean_mango
07-11-2005, 08:41 AM
Tallyho, I think your right. I'm sure there was a young pilot reading Stick & Rudder in that movie. Probably just added to the scene as a "nice touch"; since my hardcover clearly states first edition was in 1944-45. However, the book is based on a series of articles Langewiesche wrote in the early 1940's, which were probably available to pilots in 1942.

I've finished most of the book (only a section on landing is left) and I've noticed I don't stall nearly as often now, even in combat. It's become a handy companion to the 4.01 patch, and the combination of the two create a more visceral, immersive experience! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Capt_Haddock
07-19-2005, 04:06 PM
Just a quick post to say thanks, Mr Mean Mango! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Got the book today from amazon and it's indeed a fantastic read. I love Langewiesche's no-nonsense approach to things, and how he disregards complex conventional theories of little use for a pilot, in favour of practical ideas.

The first paragraph could have even been the readme file for the 4.01 patch... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
"At this very moment, thousands of men, trying to learn to fly, are wasting tens of thousands of air hours simply because they don't really understand how an airplane flies"

http://www.haddock.f2s.com/sig/F19bannerh2.jpg

mean_mango
07-20-2005, 07:57 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif

Glad you picked it up, Capt'n. Indeed, you know your in for a treat just a few paragraphs in! I think this could save people a lot of http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif frustration with the 4.01 patch.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Bearcat99
07-20-2005, 10:16 PM
I think he was reading Stck and Rudder magazine.... which was around since shortly after WW1 I believe.. I could be wrong though... I think it went under in the 50s..

Capt_Haddock
07-21-2005, 02:33 AM
Yesterday I flew some of the high angle of attack exercises, and I was deeply impressed by the FM. The planes were behaving just like the book explains, down to the smallest nuances. I flew all the time with minimum throttle and nose up in total control from take-off to landing. And the landing was a perfect 3 pointer, not by accident as in the past, but because for the first time I knew what I was doing.

The thing that got me really thinking is Langewiesche's theory on the elevators: The elevators don't make you go up or down, they are in fact angle of attack selectors. It's the throttle that makes you go up or down! Such a shift of mentality... This is what they used to call "inverted controls on landing", but the truth this is not a special behaviour that only occurs on landing. This is the actual behaviour of the plane during the whole flight envelope. Enlightening http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The incredible thing is that the book was written 60 years ago, and the same old misconceptions are still common amongst aviation enthusiasts like myself.

http://www.haddock.f2s.com/sig/F19bannerh2.jpg

mean_mango
07-21-2005, 03:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Capt_Haddock:

The incredible thing is that the book was written 60 years ago, and the same old misconceptions are still common amongst aviation enthusiasts like myself.

http://www.haddock.f2s.com/sig/F19bannerh2.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Mush!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Now I know why I sucked so much at carrier landings... I wasn't "mushing" enough!

Given that these misconceptions have lasted 60 years, it really shows that the principles on which an airplane operates haven't changed very much in all this time. Langewiesche flushes out everything, especially in regards to the turn. I've never really thought of individual control surfaces (i.e. the aileron) increasing it's wing's total angle of attack during a hard bank. But It certainly explains why I would immediately stall while desparately trying to keep the enemy in my sights. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif Of course I knew I just got too excited about getting my guns on someone, but now I know exactly what NOT to do!

I wonder what percentage of new pilots during the war actually had access to these articles before combat. I can't tell you how often I crashed while engaging the enemy simply because I stalled out at the wrong time, as was probably the case with many young combat pilots in real life. This is the kind of information that probably saved lives when applied well.

Capt_Haddock
07-23-2005, 05:25 AM
Guess what? I'm getting so much into this training thing that I thought about getting myself a proper trainer.

http://www.haddock.f2s.com/il2/skins/SK8A_01.jpg

It's a fictitious skin but I've based it on the Swedish Sk-12 and Sk-15 trainers to keep it as real as possible. There's a version with no. 87, and another clean, with just the F19 squadron number.

You can dowload it here (http://www.haddock.f2s.com/il2/skins/SK8A_Trainer.zip)

http://www.haddock.f2s.com/sig/F19bannerh2.jpg