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Pres.Clinton
01-03-2005, 05:13 PM
Is there an easier way to getting flights to take off and rondevou than just playing around with the waypoints? And is there a way to at the end of the mission in the debrief to make it tell the # of AC lost on both side like after a campaign mission?

Finally if anyone has any other neat tricks that can be used in the FMB please post them.

Latico
01-03-2005, 05:54 PM
And before you ask, Mr. President, there WILL NOT be any inturns added to the game.

Pres.Clinton
01-03-2005, 06:02 PM
Well thats ok. I added my own. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

Latico
01-03-2005, 08:17 PM
CHEAT!! CHEAT!!!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

heywooood
01-03-2005, 08:58 PM
yes...thats just what Hillary said....

Pres.Clinton
01-03-2005, 09:02 PM
Now sersouly.
Is there an easier way to getting flights to take off and rondevou than just playing around with the waypoints? And is there a way to at the end of the mission in the debrief to make it tell the # of AC lost on both side like after a campaign mission?

heywooood
01-03-2005, 09:26 PM
well - if you assign one AI flight to 'escort' the other...or your flight, that works. You still have to get them into visual range with the waypoints but it works.

You must assign 'target' 'escort' and give it a success percentage - 100% 75% 50% or 25% value I think...to make it interesting.
Once you assign escort duty - the AI seems to carry it out as well as it can.

Pres.Clinton
01-03-2005, 09:40 PM
Thank You. Ill send you an intern.

heywooood
01-03-2005, 11:13 PM
I hope she likes cigars...

LEXX_Luthor
01-04-2005, 01:30 AM
After you exit the game, you can look at the "eventlog" file that is in basic FB/PF folder. This gives the combat results of the most recent run mission, Player and AI. Make a desktop shortcut icon to click directly to eventlog file.

------

You can build up ~very~ large bomber formations that act as one unit for the entire mission using the ESCORT function. Once within about 7km range, or "visual" range, of the aircraft they are to Escort, they start to join up. Bombers fall into formation with other bombers (so do fighters if you load them with bombs and rockets and stuff). Air to Air weapon armed fighters of course tag behind their targets to escort, at higher altitude and higher speeds and zip around near their charges.

Depending on Escort pattern between flights, there can be cause for many collisions. For example, light attack bombers, dive bombers, or fighters used as bombers get out of formation on their final ground attack run, and when joining up again into huge formation, they often run into each other trying to catch up with their particular flight leader. The larger level bombers don't have this problem as they don't break formation during the bomb run and all drop bombs at the same time while in good formation (dive bombers shouldn't do this of course http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif).

Even the level bombers have problems with the nicest and tightest formations, but you can work around that by Experimenting with the pattern of Escort settings. Again, the dive bombers and small attack planes have an additional problem in that they break formation over target and get mixed up and often collide during the rebuilding of the large formation. I have not found a solution to this other then keep small attack planes and dive bombers in formations not larger than 3 regular flights.

Experiment.

LEXX_Luthor
01-04-2005, 01:50 AM
By the way, this works sweet for formation construction...

The Escort waypoints do NOT need to be in visual range, only the aircraft need to be. Example...

Flight of Ju~88 takes off from airfield, on a mission to bomb to the East. Make that leading flight's first waypoint 10km or 20km *west* of the airfield. As it reaches that first waypoint and turns back East, and flies past the airfield to continue with the mission, further flights taking off and also told to head west instead join the first flight when within about 7km range (or join other aircraft that have joined the first flight, etc...this Escort pattern helps to prevent collisions).

But, experiement with the leading flight's waypoint near the airfield. Depending on position and altitude there can be some collisions as later flights peel away from their intended waypoint and join up with the intended formation leading flight or flights.

It works, but it does take time to figure out how to prevent needless collisions.

Pres.Clinton
01-04-2005, 02:38 PM
THanks guy but I have one problem. I dont know how to set up the escort waypoints. Where do I go to make it a escort waypoint. Do I just have on friendly formation target another or what?

Pres.Clinton
01-04-2005, 11:42 PM
Is there a way to at the end of a single mission to make it display the # of AC lost on both side like after a campaign mission?

Tailgator
01-05-2005, 12:24 AM
make a shortcut on your desktop to "eventlog". open it with wordpad.

LEXX_Luthor
01-05-2005, 01:50 AM
In the Waypoints tab you see a SET button. Click it and you get a green line with little target circle you drag over to the target and click...also works for specifying targets to bomb if the waypoint is set to Ground Attack (Escort waypoints are considered a Normal Fly waypoint). The CLEAR button takes out any Setting selected.

One could write a thick book on creating FB waypoints, it is deep and bizzare stuff, more than it needs to be.

You also use the green line to SET a waypoint to takeoff or land on carrier or the new static Test Runways (those are at the bottom of Stationary Ships for some reason lol)

Interesting tip:: When the ground target is SET the bombers will see it from about 7km (horizontal distance) and attack. Without the SET the bombers will attack the closest target but only within a ~ 0.7km radius of the attack waypoint. Both have uses. I like the non~SET waypoints as the attacking aircraft will continue to attack any other nearby targets after they destroy the first they find. But that small radius of action makes things hard to deal with.

IAFS_Painter
01-05-2005, 02:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I dont know how to set up the escort waypoints. Where do I go to make it a escort waypoint. Do I just have on friendly formation target another or what? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly. Set the escort close (enough) to the bomber, and from the escort's waypoint, SET target to the bomber's way point.

Pres.Clinton
01-05-2005, 10:14 AM
Thanks Guys the escort function works great. Just one more qestion about it. Do I need to set the at every waypoint.

LEXX_Luthor
01-05-2005, 11:10 AM
I am probably wrong but to me that seems to vary with Patches. I had very bad experiences with setting up Escorting early last year and totally ignored it since then. Just now getting back into it...so...

It seems for bombers escorting bombers (formation building) no, you just need to have the Escorting flights' 2nd waypoint SET to the Leader (or leaders -- multiple leaders help prevent collisions). From then on they will follow to the end, including bombing and landing.

For fighters escorting bombers, yes you need to put a waypoint near each bomber waypoint and SET it.

Just started experimenting with fighters escorting fighters (Bf~109 escorting Bf~110 fighters for example) but the behavior does not seem to work well.

Pres.Clinton
01-05-2005, 03:46 PM
About fighters escorting fighters the 109s seem to hold fomation togather well with collison. I havent tried this with bombers yet.

LEXX_Luthor
01-05-2005, 06:15 PM
Ya, what I meant was I am running into problems with the escorting Bf~109s just leaving the Bf~110s behind and continuing on when the Bf~110s attack or get attacked. Don't know what is going on here.

For large bomber formations, I have problems with collisions when I set 4 or more flights to follow the lead flight. As I usually use 3 bombers per flight that's 12 planes together. I work around it by setting the 4th flight and later to escort not the leading flight but other flights that are escorting other flights that escort the leader. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif A tree with branches sorta. Different branch structures have better collision behavior than others. The easiest collision~free branch pattern to make is a linear chain with each flight escorting the flight in front of it--no collisions at all, but at the cost of the formation strung out linearly instead of more grouped together laterally. More complicated branch patterns can also be made that are collision~free, but they are a tad more complicated to make.

What is so cool is that all the waypoint behaviors get transmitted through the branches, and no matter how large or convoluted the branch structure, when the lead flight drops bombs, or opens bombay doors when turning to a Ground Attack waypoint, they all do the same thing up and down the tree. This is for level bombers. Attack planes that dive while bombing break up formation during the attack, and they have extra problems with collisions as they form up after the attack....because different planes of different flights are behind each other and try to pass through each other to get into position. Sad that the Escort function does not very altitude with flight.

LEXX_Luthor
01-05-2005, 10:34 PM
Yes, here is formation of 3 x 6 = 18 bombers without needing waypoints except for initial SET. But they all follow from takeoff, bombing, and landing. Takes a while for the formation to join up near the airfield, a minute or two at 8x time speed (using Semperon 3100+ a pretty fast processor). First 2 flights take off at mission start, next 2 start at 4 minutes, the last 2 start at 8 minutes. Sorry it took so long to post an example mission, but I am not posting on my FB computer but laptop, and its a Bear transferring files. Next time, I shall double my efforts.


Copy~n~Paste the text below into Mission folder, fire up FMB. Test Mission uses AI Ju~88 so it won't work with PF standalone...just now thought of that.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif


Formation leader g0100 is in bold text and has all the waypoints. Note all others need only two waypoints, one SET to takeoff from Test Runway, and the other SET to join the formation leader. Note at the end of the line containing the 2nd waypoints of the followers that not all are SET to Escort the front leader g0100, but some follow sub~leaders that do follow g0100. This avoids collisions that happen often when all flights are SET to follow the front leader.



[MAIN]
MAP Empty2a_Winter/load.ini
TIME 15.0
CloudType 0
CloudHeight 1500.0
army 1
playerNum 0
[Wing]
g0100
g0101
g0102
g0112
g0103
g0110
[g0100]
Planes 3
Skill 1
Class air.JU_88A4
Fuel 50
weapons 2xSC1000
[g0100_Way]
TAKEOFF 8213.58 31743.17 0 0 0_Static 0 &0
NORMFLY 1397.11 26730.02 500.00 300.00 &0
NORMFLY 6656.82 26976.57 500.00 300.00 &0
NORMFLY 986.19 27798.39 500.00 300.00 &0
NORMFLY 13683.47 27551.85 500.00 300.00 &0
NORMFLY 44954.09 25326.64 1000.00 300.00 &0
GATTACK 49145.44 24921.99 1000.00 300.00 &0
NORMFLY 5588.44 10539.97 1000.00 300.00 &0
NORMFLY 5917.18 20155.38 1000.00 300.00 &0
LANDING 10859.53 25123.15 0 0 0_Static 0 &0
[g0101]
Planes 3
Skill 1
Class air.JU_88A4
Fuel 50
weapons 2xSC1000
[g0101_Way]
TAKEOFF 8131.40 31085.72 0 0 0_Static 0 &0
NORMFLY 986.18 25908.19 500.00 300.00 g0100 1 &0
[g0102]
Planes 3
Skill 1
Class air.JU_88A4
Fuel 50
weapons 2xSC1000
StartTime 4
[g0102_Way]
TAKEOFF 7884.85 30181.70 0 0 0_Static 0 &0
NORMFLY 2054.58 25990.37 500.00 300.00 g0100 1 &0
[g0112]
Planes 3
Skill 1
Class air.JU_88A4
Fuel 50
weapons 2xSC1000
StartTime 4
[g0112_Way]
TAKEOFF 7720.48 29380.42 0 0 0_Static 0 &0
NORMFLY 2712.04 24778.15 500.00 300.00 g0102 1 &0
[g0103]
Planes 3
Skill 1
Class air.JU_88A4
Fuel 50
weapons 2xSC1000
StartTime 8
[g0103_Way]
TAKEOFF 7595.62 28592.08 0 0 0_Static 0 &0
NORMFLY 1314.93 25004.17 500.00 300.00 g0101 1 &0
[g0110]
Planes 3
Skill 1
Class air.JU_88A4
Fuel 50
weapons 2xSC1000
StartTime 8
[g0110_Way]
TAKEOFF 7638.30 27716.20 0 0 0_Static 0 &0
NORMFLY 1191.65 24511.08 500.00 300.00 g0103 1 &0
[NStationary]
0_Static ships.Ship$RwyCon 0 13724.56 27305.28 360.00 0.0 0 2 1.0
[Buildings]
[Bridge]
[House]

LEXX_Luthor
01-05-2005, 10:51 PM
Some days ago, I did a "quickie" experiment with a heavily armed Red Bf~109Z and shot down all three aircraft of the front leader flight--the flight with all the waypoints--just after the formation left the airfield. The others seemed to continue with the mission no problem without the leading flight, but I really need to do that experiment again. I mention this just as a warning that if the leading formation is all shot down, it could totally mess up a mission if the following flights don't have waypoints to follow. But it didn't seem to be the case. Don't trust me on this right now. Hop in a 109Z and take out the front leaders and see what happens to the mission.

LEXX_Luthor
01-05-2005, 11:24 PM
Yup, it works at least for this setup. Shot down all 3 lead flight {g0100} aircraft g01000, g01001, g01002, and the rest of the formation continued on as normal to bomb and land all by themselves without the original leading formation. Smooth.

Pres.Clinton
01-06-2005, 12:16 AM
Do I need to make a mission folder for that to work.

LEXX_Luthor
01-06-2005, 12:31 AM
The FB folder has a subfolder called Missions. You can plop the test mission in their with NotePad or WordPad or some word processor. The Missions folder has subsubfolders for Single, Campaign, etc.... I just use the Mission subfolder to hold the missions I make. You can navigate or Browse the folders using the FMB when you ask it to load or save a mission file.

Pres.Clinton
01-06-2005, 10:45 AM
Thank You Ill give that mission a try now.

LEXX_Luthor
01-07-2005, 08:59 PM
PC, any luck in getting it into folder and running?

Pres.Clinton
01-07-2005, 09:23 PM
That was cool how they all formed up on each other. That was pretty easy to load up thanks for the help.

LEXX_Luthor
01-08-2005, 02:11 AM
Awsum.

Experiment with the escort sets, let us know what you come up with - new ideas, new problems, new everythings. Use FMB to Save As backup mission file (be aware of folder options), in case you mess up the file you work on, or make changes you want to undo.