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Hanglands
05-29-2007, 06:03 AM
Hi,

I've been tinkering with parafrags, and specifically deploying them in a vertical dive to produce a column of parafrags which slowly decend onto the target over a period of a couple of minutes.

Its on YouTube HERE. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUEe7Pqs_o0)

Or if you prefer its also on Photobucket, but due to their service limitations for users of the free service, I've had to cut it up into two parts.

Part One
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m203/ChickenHawk_2006/th_Pfragspt1.jpg (http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m203/ChickenHawk_2006/?action=view&current=Pfragspt1.flv)

Part Two
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m203/ChickenHawk_2006/th_Pfragspt2.jpg (http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m203/ChickenHawk_2006/?action=view&current=Pfragspt2.flv)

I've also stuck on my website, which I've just updated.

I did this just because I like experimenting within IL-2, but if anybody actually tries this online - I'd be quite interested to hear of any successes http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I thought I'd have a bash at narration in this one too. Im not a speaker or orator by any stretch of the imagination, so sorry if it sounds bad.

Regards.

Hanglands
05-29-2007, 06:03 AM
Hi,

I've been tinkering with parafrags, and specifically deploying them in a vertical dive to produce a column of parafrags which slowly decend onto the target over a period of a couple of minutes.

Its on YouTube HERE. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUEe7Pqs_o0)

Or if you prefer its also on Photobucket, but due to their service limitations for users of the free service, I've had to cut it up into two parts.

Part One
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m203/ChickenHawk_2006/th_Pfragspt1.jpg (http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m203/ChickenHawk_2006/?action=view&current=Pfragspt1.flv)

Part Two
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m203/ChickenHawk_2006/th_Pfragspt2.jpg (http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m203/ChickenHawk_2006/?action=view&current=Pfragspt2.flv)

I've also stuck on my website, which I've just updated.

I did this just because I like experimenting within IL-2, but if anybody actually tries this online - I'd be quite interested to hear of any successes http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I thought I'd have a bash at narration in this one too. Im not a speaker or orator by any stretch of the imagination, so sorry if it sounds bad.

Regards.

MEGILE
05-29-2007, 06:17 AM
hahaha

get this on a spawn point on a FR server, and its GG.

Did you use any delay?

Worf101
05-29-2007, 07:48 AM
You do some of them most interesting things. Now, what are the suvivability prospect on your pull out? I've devolved my groundpounding into a "one and done" or "one pass and haul ***" philosophy. Do you find that you're more vulnerable to AAA and Machinegun fire with a low egress like that? Or does the excess speed help. Did you black out on egress? And deliberately toggle your bombs on and off?

Da Worfster

rnzoli
05-29-2007, 07:50 AM
Cool! Does it work in bad weather too? I mean, does wind effect the little parachutes?

On DF servers, of course you should never aim for the runways, but on the parking areas and the taxiways http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Then just count the "Enemy aircraft destroyed" messages every 5 seconds for the next 2 minutes http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif (that's about 2400 points with fighters)

leitmotiv
05-29-2007, 08:08 AM
One has to ask why? The whole idea of the parafrag bomb was to enable the strike aircraft to come in at treetop (literally) height thus giving them surprise and a very good chance against light AA. Also allowed the aircraft to use a loose formation so that good coverage of the target area was possible. Since there were no huge explosions, you could send in wave after wave from several directions concentrated in time.

What is the point of concentrating parafrags? Why not several 1000 lb HE bombs with contact fuzes? If you are going to expose yourself may as well get the most bang.

Philipscdrw
05-29-2007, 08:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:
One has to ask why? The whole idea of the parafrag bomb was to enable the strike aircraft to come in at treetop (literally) height thus giving them surprise and a very good chance against light AA. Also allowed the aircraft to use a loose formation so that good coverage of the target area was possible. Since there were no huge explosions, you could send in wave after wave from several directions concentrated in time.

What is the point of concentrating parafrags? Why not several 1000 lb HE bombs with contact fuzes? If you are going to expose yourself may as well get the most bang. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
The benefit of the 'frag tower' method is that you get a continuous series of explosions in the same area over a period of time. Yes you get more bang with 1000lb bombs but they only happen at one instant...

I want to try this out now. Cheers Hanglands!

JarheadEd
05-29-2007, 08:16 AM
Watched it, tried it, loved it. It took about 5 tries before I did it right, and that was only once. This is hard to do, but the B-25J helps out in that I used the nose gunner position for target alignment and to cue the pushover.

Even when I did screw it up,..its fun to watch the parafrags come on down. I added an aileron roll on delivery to spread the tower.

I nominate that this delivery method receive its own name. "Hangland's Tower 'O Power" or something to that effect.

Philipscdrw
05-29-2007, 08:17 AM
Just a thought - do parafrag bombs still cause damage after the launching plane is destroyed? Torpedos don't, I think that other ordnance doesn't - could be a problem...

JarheadEd
05-29-2007, 08:30 AM
In QMB they continued to blow stuff up after I had failed my pull outs. On line? I'm not sure.

Philipscdrw
05-29-2007, 08:37 AM
Hey, what if you roll inverted before the dive? I'm thinking it would be good to use the canopy frame to judge angle-of-dive and if you can see the target through the cockpit roof it might help to judge the start of the dive.

JarheadEd
05-29-2007, 08:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Philipscdrw:
Hey, what if you roll inverted before the dive? I'm thinking it would be good to use the canopy frame to judge angle-of-dive and if you can see the target through the cockpit roof it might help to judge the start of the dive. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


That's only for good pilots, not me. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Durchstarten
05-29-2007, 08:55 AM
Interesting lesson on the history of fragmentation weapons - you learn something new every day.

DPS.

Viper2005_
05-29-2007, 09:24 AM
Genius!

tigertalon
05-29-2007, 09:53 AM
Wow, neat! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

tigertalon
05-29-2007, 09:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Philipscdrw:
Hey, what if you roll inverted before the dive? I'm thinking it would be good to use the canopy frame to judge angle-of-dive and if you can see the target through the cockpit roof it might help to judge the start of the dive. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nah, why not use bombsight depressed at 0 angle (straight down). This way you are exactly above the target, when you get it in your crosshair.

WhtBoy
05-29-2007, 10:55 AM
I'm gonna have to try this. One thought though. If you're diving vertically, then your lift vector is horizontal and should be accelerating you across the ground, which would make a vertical "tower" of frags impossible. You should only be able to do this if you were diving past the vertical. Of course, that would make the drop a bit more complicated unless you were heaving them out the roof.

--Outlaw.

Crash_Moses
05-29-2007, 10:59 AM
lol...another use for my beloved PBJ.

I've done the opposite on-line...dove for speed and then pulled straight up with a bogey on my six...then plastered his windshield with parafrags.

Results were...mixed. I don't recommend it...

Lurch1962
05-29-2007, 05:16 PM
Whtboy,
Maintaining a straight trajectory while in a vertical dive is effected with down elevator. As long as airspeed doesn't build up too much, that is. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

--Lurch--

Hanglands
05-30-2007, 03:53 AM
Hi,

Thanks for all the positive feedback guys. I do this stuff for my own pleasure, but its always good to hear others approve it of and try it out.

To answer a couple of questions raised.

Megile - There was a tw second delay set. Though there was no reason for this really, I leave my delay on that all the time, it avoids getting caught out when your low and slow!

Worf101 - Survivability on pull out is 100% (so far!). Your 'one pass and haul ***' (I like that!) philosophy is obviously sound. And yes, hanging directly over the target for the better part of 20seconds seems risky. But I think 3500m+ is a relatively safe altitude, and by the time youre low enough for flak to be a serious risk you are going so damn fast you dont even see it.
I can honestly say I didnt black out. I was being carfull on the dive recovery not to 'hoik' back on the stick too much in order to preserve the elevators which seem to fly off. The combat flaps and a little stick back is all I used.
As for toggling the bombs on and off - you mean the clip towards the end where I drop the bombs in four groups? Yes that was a deliberate attempt to prolong the drop and lose a bit of speed in the dive in doing so. That back and forth through the vertical trick added an extra 500m to the frag drop which would equate to an extra 53seconds of detonation on the ground (albeit with breaks).

rnzoli - Unfortunately/fortunately (Im not sure which to use) the weather doesnt affect the chutes at all, so yes, it works in bad weather just as well as good weather.

leitmotiv - You are quite correct in what you say about the whole idea of the parafrag being to allow low level drops, indeed I do spend the first part of the video talking about this. The point of this excrsize was to create a nuisance factor for the enemy, and hopefully deny them the use of an important area, namely an airfield or carrier. There doesnt need to be any big bangs from 1000kg bombs in order to have this effect. the parafrags in game produce shrapnel which spreads 10-15 meters. This is enough to stop someone getting off the ground. And as Phillipscdrw points out after you "you get a continuous series of explosions in the same area over a period of time".

Phillipscdrw - As far as I can establish, if you die online, your bombs are ineffective, if you die offline, theyre still good.


Oh and I love the "Hanglands Tower O' Power" idea. A legend in my own lunchtime http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Incidentally, the diagram didnt come out to well in the vid, so here it is as a jpeg:

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m203/ChickenHawk_2006/untitled.jpg

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m203/ChickenHawk_2006/untitledstagger.jpg



Regards all.

whiteladder
05-30-2007, 04:20 AM
Hanglands has just produced the perfect server empter!

skarden
05-30-2007, 04:50 AM
Damm thats cool,great work as always there hanglands http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

But i really hope to never look up and see it in person though http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Worf101
05-30-2007, 07:38 AM
Thanks for the information man. I'm gonna whip up a QMB with this and have a go. Very interesting technique and near as I can tell, one you thought up all on your own. Out friggin' standin' man. Great work and thanks for for answering all the questions..

Da Worfster

cmirko
05-30-2007, 07:49 AM
this will be extremely useful on czechwar_DFS server http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif - main objective in taking the field is to stop lots of defending players taking off http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Philipscdrw
05-30-2007, 07:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by skarden:
Damm thats cool,great work as always there hanglands http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

But i really hope to never look up and see it in person though http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You'd just hit 'refly' really, really fast... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif and wait for 60 seconds!

Jaws2002
05-30-2007, 08:54 AM
Awesome. I'd really like to try it in a group attack of four-six ships on an enemy airfield. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif http://media.ubi.com/us/forum_images/gf-glomp.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Roblex
05-30-2007, 11:45 AM
Back in teh days when I played Warbirds we had a similar technique.

You could capture an airfield by flying in a JU52 full of paratroopers and dropping them over the field and if a certain number ran to the control without getting shot by defending aircraft or the field flak then they blew the tower and it changed hands. To do this usually meant someone taking out all the flak units because they were deadly against running paratroopers. Then someone discovered that if you could drop all the paras *on* the tower the guns could not kill them all quickly enough. What we did was dive in at max speed then pull up into a vertical climb above the tower while dropping the paras thus producing a 'tower of paras' http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Regarding your own method, in your video you seem to have problems getting all the parafrags on the runway. Would it not work better to dive in at speed along the line of the runway at 100ft, start dropping then pull vertical?

msalama
05-30-2007, 11:46 AM
Yeah, just another one here joining the chorus, but excellent work as always still m8!

S!