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View Full Version : HOMM Kingdoms - Evolution of Travian?



Finnien
07-30-2008, 10:11 PM
I've recently started playing what appears to be a pretty popular web game, something called Travian. From what I've seen so far, it appears to have some pretty strong similarities - with, of course, tons of innovations, improvements, and additions from the Heroes franchise. Now, seeing as how Travian is already addictive, I'm wondering what this web-crack will do to me!

Seriously, does anyone else have any input on how this plays out compared to other web-based games, as a blend of HOMM and the web-strategy stuff? Also, is there any more word on the beta? If I could afford it, I'd go out and buy the Complete edition just for the beta key! I've got about 50 guildmates, and my roommate has another 50, that are all burnt out on WoW and looking for something more casual yet still social. This could be it.

Really, I'm just rambling at this point, but I'm giddy with anticipation! Hopefully all is proceeding well...

Finnien
07-30-2008, 10:11 PM
I've recently started playing what appears to be a pretty popular web game, something called Travian. From what I've seen so far, it appears to have some pretty strong similarities - with, of course, tons of innovations, improvements, and additions from the Heroes franchise. Now, seeing as how Travian is already addictive, I'm wondering what this web-crack will do to me!

Seriously, does anyone else have any input on how this plays out compared to other web-based games, as a blend of HOMM and the web-strategy stuff? Also, is there any more word on the beta? If I could afford it, I'd go out and buy the Complete edition just for the beta key! I've got about 50 guildmates, and my roommate has another 50, that are all burnt out on WoW and looking for something more casual yet still social. This could be it.

Really, I'm just rambling at this point, but I'm giddy with anticipation! Hopefully all is proceeding well...

tobythaone
07-31-2008, 05:35 AM
That was my first thought also, been playing Travian for 2 years now and when you add this to the ecvation..The result is=No time for school/work/friends/other games.

Well Travian is an awsome game so if they get the inspiration from it, it can only become good http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

vizier.mv
08-04-2008, 06:26 PM
The developers have said that they want HOMM:K to set a new standard in quality and gameplay for browser-based online strategy games. But who are their main competition? I'm only aware of Ikariam and Travian. Are there others that are also decent?

Finnien
08-05-2008, 09:16 AM
I've played around with a game called Dreamlords, which has an RTS client and a web-based realm management system. The game is interesting, but ultimately lost any real draw after a weekend or so. Travian, on the other hand, is a sleep-robbing devil of a game...

targ212
08-05-2008, 09:41 AM
I find travian to be too easy/uncomplicated to play. Only 3 races, strategy's very limited to the race you choose, etc... I hope this will be more challenging, and it seems it will be http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

Finnien
08-05-2008, 10:08 AM
Travian's appeal is not in the game itself, it's in the politics. It's somewhat akin to a large team-based game of Tradewars or something similar from the way-back BBS days. The game itself is simple, efficiency is king, and you live or die by the sword.

Kingdoms, on the other hand, looks to be an actual merging of the retro feel the web games are producing with the brilliant legacy of the HOMM series. The rescue-or-ransom hero capture system is a perfect example of how much more in-depth and well-imagined this game will be.

Or so we hope. Until beta, I'm just waiting. And I've got about 50 people I'll be dragging with me into the game if it's everything I hope it to be. I already am entertaining delusions of kingship. =)

vizier.mv
08-05-2008, 11:47 AM
Could you explain a little more how Travian is all about the player politics? Do you think that HOMM:K will have some of this as well because of the brilliant Alliance and territorial control systems?

I don't really see Ikariam as being much of a threat to HOMM:K because it has no end game at all and very little strategy. Having played it for about 4 months, it basically seems to come down to collecting from infinite resource nodes while you build a little army just big enough that no one will attack you. It hardly makes sense to attack other players because the combat model is unpredictable, because Alliances are all spread out, and because attacking takes so damn long and is so expensive. In other words, it is kind of a fun "build a city" game with nice graphics for a browser game, but sucks as a strategy game and in the end has no point other than the continued exponential accumulation of resources.

Saladcompose
08-05-2008, 03:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by vizier.mv:
Could you explain a little more how Travian is all about the player politics?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's politics at it's finest!
You search for smaller players than you and take their resources and if they don't give you res you catapult them down to a smoldering rubble.You see? Politics!(and yes I do play Travian)
Though seriously when you are in a big alliance politics do come into play. Hidden negotations with the enemy's ally. Covering your(the alliance leader's http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ) plans while feeding false information to the spies residing in your alliance etc.
But if you aren't a top contender you will only get attacked( though it's pretty fun xD )
If things are simple like in travian, people will make it more complicated http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

vizier.mv
08-06-2008, 12:31 AM
It's good to know that you can make such alliances in Travian. My Ikariam alliance is so spread out around the world that we find it difficult to support each other when diplomacy fails.

One thing I like about HOMM:K is that alliances will be able to hold continuous territory. It should be quite interesting to see what kind of deals people make for "safe passage", non-aggression pacts, mutual defense treaties, etc.

Saladcompose
08-06-2008, 05:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by vizier.mv:
It's good to know that you can make such alliances in Travian. My Ikariam alliance is so spread out around the world that we find it difficult to support each other when diplomacy fails.

One thing I like about HOMM:K is that alliances will be able to hold continuous territory. It should be quite interesting to see what kind of deals people make for "safe passage", non-aggression pacts, mutual defense treaties, etc. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah that territory feature is pretty neat!
Another thing which I find cool is that you can see other players attacking, moving on the map in travian the only source to hear about war is if your current alliance is involved in it(gets involved in it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ) or someone posts it on the forums.
It's so much better to actually see what's happening around you.
I also like the fact that they are making the game so those who can't spend too much time on the game still have a chance.

Finnien
08-06-2008, 02:05 PM
Travian, at least in my alliance/on my server, has a pretty complicated system of alliances (confederacies) and non-aggression pacts, making picking your targets carefully a high priority. Raiding is essential to swift progress, but raiding the wrong person can start World War Three, which nobody comes out ahead in.

For an endgame, they release the ability to build a world wonder, and whoever builds it first wins... so alliances put together MASSIVE armies in an attempt to defend their wonder and tear down everyone else's.

Right now the alliance I'm in, for example, is affiliated with a much larger one, and our sole purpose is to provide swift mounted defense to the more spread-out edges of the empire. Now, when I say 'smaller', I mean only 50 or so people.

I don't know enough about HOMM Kingdoms yet to really predict how its politics will play out, but I do imagine it will have some very interesting player alliances, betrayals, and strategies. I really can't wait to learn more about how it'll work so I can start formulating my plans... to take over the world, of course.

vizier.mv
08-06-2008, 10:28 PM
Wow that's interesting. I had no idea that Travian had that kind of meaningful end-game.

Do they reset the server after someone has created the World Wonder?

Finnien
08-07-2008, 01:09 AM
Yep. Basically the world starts entering an ice age, and an ancient tribe from a previous age is discovered. You try to take over their villages, thus gaining the ability to make the wonder, and discover artifacts in the process. These artifacts help wage war on other people, giving bonuses to crop production, lessening upkeep costs, etc. I've never seen it myself, but apparently it's impressive enough to keep people playing reset after reset.

vizier.mv
08-07-2008, 01:03 PM
Hrm, well that changes my opinion of Travian! Personally I am a huge fan of the idea of iterative servers. It just gives everyone an actual goal to work towards and a game to truly win rather than just continually grinding out repetitive infinite content (aka World of Warcraft). It also provides the developers with a natural cycle for adding new features, content and gameplay tweaks.

I wonder what kind of end-game the devs are planning for HOMM:K? Or perhaps we'll get our choice to play on either open-ended or end-game servers. It would also be cool if they had an accelerated beta server to give everyone the chance to test end-game content too.

Finnien
08-07-2008, 05:34 PM
For me to stay interested long-term, there has to be some carry-over if the game has a cycle and ends... Main hero carrying over, for example. Otherwise I'll play it for a cycle or two, then quit because there is no real development and progress. At least some form of persistent advancement and character development is necessary for me to be hooked in for more than a month or two.

Ethdred
08-13-2008, 02:54 PM
I noticed the similarities with Travian as well. I hope it doesn't turn out like that game - I went off it in a big way. Far too many griefers.

rf69
08-14-2008, 03:35 AM
Well, it's just about achieving something. It may really lead to abandoning the game if reset after reset you're left with no reward. On the other hand, let's say that you are a newcomer, possibly joining the game in the middle. You are greatly involved in all of the game aspects, but... you just started too late and there is no chance of growing up to the mightiest. And so this is the reason for restarting game for everyone, to start from the beginning. I think that in the MMO games, the greatest reward is fun. I am not playing to achieve anything. This is only a game and all goods collected/gained/won are just a pack of bytes on a server memory. What is valuable and worth devoting your time are friends, time spend on working out a plan for a long-lasting siege...
And because of all that I'm for resetting serves from time to time.
Servers?
So if there is going to be more of them - maybe they'll be different in this aspects? Some of them shall be never lasting, with Heroes stronger than whole armies of Dragons?

Blah, that's why we're w8n' this much of time for the game to be released. We want it to suit our needs. Dev's want it tu suit needs of all of us. Answer yourself, how difficult it is http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Saladcompose
08-14-2008, 11:12 AM
I think not resetting servers is pointless and would make the game boring the game is designed that heroes have a level cap so you can't max every skill and for this reason I definitely think that you will be able to reach that cap in a server's time so your early choices have a bigger impact end game.

If the servers don't reset:
1) New players will be crushed by max lvl heroes

2) 'Max lvl hero' players will eventually get bored because they reached the ceiling and lvling up another(and another and another...) hero to the max won't bring that form of satisfaction and will just degrade into grinding

Resetting servers is a clever thing(mostly if resetted via reaching a specific goal) it's a good time for newbies to join, it lets you try another strategy or another faction etc.

I like Travian but my biggest problem with it is that you have to play it almost 24/7 leaving it unattended could result in complete disaster

Finnien
08-14-2008, 01:01 PM
The devs definitely seem aware of Travian's shortcomings, such as the total and constant attention required. I believe armies can only attack at night, you're limited in how far into enemy territory you can go, castle sieges take days, you can delay production to fit things into your schedule, etc. The game certainly has numerous advantages over Travian, it's really looking like a huge step into the next generation of web browser games. Even Everquest -&gt; World of Warcraft isn't the same level of evolution as I'm seeing here.

vizier.mv
08-14-2008, 09:20 PM
Sure, plus there is no reason that the game rules couldn't be tweaked to support both open and cyclical servers. And as for the cyclical servers, they can tweak the rules and offer servers that last 12 months and others that only last three months.

Giving the players choice and different ways to play the game will ultimately make something everyone can enjoy in their own way. Which is pretty much the definition of fun in my book.

Phenoca
09-24-2008, 01:26 PM
Yes I notice I'm posting a month late.


vizier: I'm only aware of Ikariam and Travian. Are there others that are also decent?

Tribal Wars, of course.
The games Land of Destiny and one other which I forget the name of - are also high quality PBBSGs.

I believe Ant Crusade(r)(s) (brackets are for the letters I am not sure about) and Wild Guns.
Ogame is really much more influential than Ikariam... Or at least, it was until GameForge (the company owning both games) decided to advertise Ikariam to a ridiculous magnitude. The majority of updates in Ikariam are to prevent players from growing, or taking too much server memory (anti message-spamming, anti long-messages), and there have only been two updates since the release of Open Beta which enhanced the gameplay of Ikariam - warehouses carrying enough resources so that the warehouse can be upgraded, and the ability to cancel resource-transfers (it takes time for traders to get resources, and now you can cancel this process if you made a mistake).

Hmm, Travian is my favourite PBBSG, and I am a fan of the game.
I played the s1 US beta, but only played one round (almost died from inter-alliance wars).
The game is very fun, and addicting. I agree, however, that it takes TOO much time once you have 10 or 20 towns to micro-manage. Not to mention when you have 30 or 40 towns!


rf69: On the other hand, let's say that you are a newcomer, possibly joining the game in the middle. You are greatly involved in all of the game aspects, but... you just started too late and there is no chance of growing up to the mightiest. And so this is the reason for restarting game for everyone, to start from the beginning.

Ah, nice.


HOMM Kingdoms looks sweet, but I don't buy games, so I can't play the Beta.
In fact, my favourite action-game of all time (perhaps my second-favourite, after Subspace Continuum) only costs $10 for a permanent membership, and I've never bought that game, Hyperbol!
Same with Fairyland Online. Great game, cool community (because everyone is a subscriber, which means you care about the game), but again, the cost is over $0.00, so I do not play.

Finnien: The rescue-or-ransom hero capture system is a perfect example of how much more in-depth and well-imagined this game will be.

Oh neat - I had not read that one http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Finnien: And I've got about 50 people I'll be dragging with me into the game if it's everything I hope it to be. I already am entertaining delusions of kingship. =)

Oh neat - what is your wing-alliance called? I run an alliance of 50-90 people, and it is fun, yet time-consuming http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif