PDA

View Full Version : This games off.. is stealth even possible?



LaMOi
12-03-2010, 12:50 PM
...... in a stealth game no less..???!!!

Ive been playing this game for a couple of hours, and I gotta say Im starting to get frustrated - it just seems that this game has everything you would want out of a stealth game, only heres the rub, to be stealthy seems to be impossible...?

<span class="ev_code_RED">Please do not bypass the Language Filter.</span>


I mean Borgia Tower Captains seem to have a sixth sense, they seem to spot you, through walls almost! And the set up is done in such a way that there patrolling with guard so theres always NO OTHER choice but to run in there and fight!

I mean maybe im mistake but I thought this was met to be a stealth game? I mean I dont know - maybe the game opens up after the early stages and it allows you to be more stealthy.. ? ACII didnt frustrate me like this.

LaMOi
12-03-2010, 12:50 PM
...... in a stealth game no less..???!!!

Ive been playing this game for a couple of hours, and I gotta say Im starting to get frustrated - it just seems that this game has everything you would want out of a stealth game, only heres the rub, to be stealthy seems to be impossible...?

<span class="ev_code_RED">Please do not bypass the Language Filter.</span>


I mean Borgia Tower Captains seem to have a sixth sense, they seem to spot you, through walls almost! And the set up is done in such a way that there patrolling with guard so theres always NO OTHER choice but to run in there and fight!

I mean maybe im mistake but I thought this was met to be a stealth game? I mean I dont know - maybe the game opens up after the early stages and it allows you to be more stealthy.. ? ACII didnt frustrate me like this.

RipYourSpineOut
12-03-2010, 12:55 PM
It IS possible to bring down the Borgia towers using stealth. You just need to watch the guard patterns. I've taken down quite a few of the Borgia towers without being detected. You just have to take your time. There is stealth in this game, you just need patience http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

X10J
12-03-2010, 01:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RipYourSpineOut:
It IS possible to bring down the Borgia towers using stealth. You just need to watch the guard patterns. I've taken down quite a few of the Borgia towers without being detected. You just have to take your time. There is stealth in this game, you just need patience http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I concur.

TheEpicWolf
12-03-2010, 01:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RipYourSpineOut:
It IS possible to bring down the Borgia towers using stealth. You just need to watch the guard patterns. I've taken down quite a few of the Borgia towers without being detected. You just have to take your time. There is stealth in this game, you just need patience http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What he said.

LaMOi
12-03-2010, 01:08 PM
but the Borgia Captian is walking around with 3 guards behind him, I mean how the heck you stealth kill him?

And he seems to possess super human hearing and sight?

Redfeather1975
12-03-2010, 01:15 PM
hmmmm. A captain with 3 guards accompanying him might not be doable stealth-wise, until you have the crossbow and poison darts.

There are plenty of towers where you can kill the captain unnoticed. Maybe try the one you are on right now later.

X10J
12-03-2010, 01:17 PM
2nd tenat of the Creed: reveal yourself only when ready to strike.

Get there stealthily, kill him stealthily, run like hell.

LaMOi
12-03-2010, 01:29 PM
Just playing it there...

Prime example...


In a red area so dont know whether that gives the guards super hearing or what but, I thought id test it out -

- Walked up behind three guards very slowly, and before I got with in 4ft of them, all 3 turned around.... Absolute BS! I never expereinced this kind of crap in ACII.. And this game is buggy man, there was a guy riding his horse on the roof top!

Guards when they do spot a dead body they return to back to patrol mode way quicker than ACII ... In ACII thye actually searched around a bit.. Too be honest something tells me im in for a sloppy ride here..

And stealth is very hit and miss..

RipYourSpineOut
12-03-2010, 01:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LaMOi:
but the Borgia Captian is walking around with 3 guards behind him, I mean how the heck you stealth kill him?

And he seems to possess super human hearing and sight? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I recommend getting above him if possible. If you can't, get as close to him as possible without being noticed. Once you did on of the two, I recommend this:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by X10J:
kill him stealthily, run like hell. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

LaMOi
12-03-2010, 01:34 PM
But heres the rub, as soon as I get within feet of him and his cronies they all 'SENSE' me and turn around...


They need to patch this game I think.. I hate that in stealth game wear the enemy just 'KNOW' your there..


I dont know why this is happening as I say I didnt expereince it in ACII.. ACII was pretty solid.

Sparty2020
12-03-2010, 01:47 PM
No offense, but why are you getting so worked up about this Borgia tower? Stealth isn't even required for borgia towers unless the captain is a runner and even then you can simply wait until you get more equipment or you get your assassin recruits to help you.

ssj13piccolo
12-03-2010, 02:12 PM
Wait till you get the cross bow it makes stealth missions a lot easier as you can kill them from a distance till only the captain is left and they never spot you unless they're on the roof with you.

AssassinVenice
12-03-2010, 02:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ssj13piccolo:
Wait till you get the cross bow it makes stealth missions a lot easier as you can kill them from a distance till only the captain is left and they never spot you unless they're on the roof with you. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
yeah the long ranged weapons are helpful when it comes to stealth

ZCherub
12-03-2010, 02:18 PM
I loved the Borgia Towers. I took down quite a few using stealth - mainly the ones that were labelled cowards - I don't like chases. Some I chose to run in & hack my way to the captains. That's what made the 1st AC so great is the ability to take out a target however you wanted - even if getting to the targets got repetitive after a while. The only thing I would change is the ability to replay the towers.

Dougout78
12-03-2010, 02:18 PM
Kill the guards from behind one at a time in a stealthy manner... from within a crowd, haystack or from above.

LaMOi
12-03-2010, 02:28 PM
couple of things I aint diggin...


- When guards do spot the dead body they say 'what happened here?' and within seconds there back to patrolling like nothing has happened. I hate that, thats almost as bad as Tenchu..? When guards spotted a dead body in ACII they actually searched around awhile..

- The stealth just seems inconsistent, I can walk up behind and stealth kill some guys without them hearing me - but a pack with a Brute in I cant sneak up on them.. Can you not sneak up on Brutes?


Sorry Im not complaing here, I just like playing in a stealthy manner.. I know you dont have to but I like to have the option.

TheMusingMoose
12-03-2010, 02:38 PM
What kind of stealth are you used to? If you played Thief, AC:B stealth will feel shallow, but enjoyable. Less so with Splinter Cell, and much less with Metal Gear.

See, Thief was a stealth game. Assassin's Creed is a SOCIAL stealth game. So it is more about sneaking up on someone using the crowd, stabbing then, then running like the proverbial wind.

ZCherub
12-03-2010, 02:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RipYourSpineOut:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LaMOi:
but the Borgia Captian is walking around with 3 guards behind him, I mean how the heck you stealth kill him?

And he seems to possess super human hearing and sight? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I always liked killing an archer, then using the body as a distraction to draw guards off their path, then air assassinate your target. There are also Theives, Mercs, & Courtesans you can use as distractions. The possibilities are endless w/ a little creativity!
I recommend getting above him if possible. If you can't, get as close to him as possible without being noticed. Once you did on of the two, I recommend this:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by X10J:
kill him stealthily, run like hell. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

LaMOi
12-03-2010, 03:21 PM
Yeah I havent unlocked that in the game yet, Im early on so I think it will get better...


However I have been off with some frankly sloppy experiences compared with the tight little package ACII was.. Everything worked.


Things ive noticed which are poo in my version of the game

1) Throwing guys off the building onto the street below, so far it seems 50/50 whether NPC's or guards will notice, sometimes they literally walk by without noticing a thing, and the guy was a 'fresh' kill they were the first to see him, or not as the case was...
Sometimes they will ntice and do everything you would expect, they ask who did this, and they investigate. Other times they notice for all of 5 econds then they go back to patrol which I think breaks the immersion.. It reminds you your playing a game. Plus the stealth seems really really inconsistent, like sometimes guards just have a 'SENSE' of where you are!


2) Second, I dont know why but things are a bit sloppy with the buttons, for example, in a fight Im trying to switch to my knife, and nothings happein..? Eventually I manage to choose it, and theres 5 guys on me and im pressing X to start fighting only Ezio aint pulling out no weapon, hes just standing there, and im hammering on X !!! Eventually he pulls it out... and im like FRUSTRATION!

Also where im stealth killing a guy, I walk up behind him and press X and same thing, nothing happned and im hammering X and then eventually he stealth kills him.. Maybe the game doesnt like you stealth killing with any thing except the wrist blade?

3) General lack of polish - Ive seen guys stuck in one spot going round in circles.. Ives seen a guy on a horse on a roof top.. A group of guard that were lookign for me, even tho I was hiding behind a wall, they all like got stuck in an animation or something and kinda glided over to where I was... Thats just really crappy.



I soooo want to love this game - as it has flashes of absolute brilliance... But then another crappy thing happens and ruins the experience. I dunno It lacks the polish of ACII I think..? But hopefully when I start unlocking the thieves and courtasans and assassins things should get better?

<span class="ev_code_RED">Please do not bypass the Language Filter.</span>

LadyGahan2010
12-03-2010, 03:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">In a red area so dont know whether that gives the guards super hearing or what but, I thought id test it out -

- Walked up behind three guards very slowly, and before I got with in 4ft of them, all 3 turned around.... Absolute BS! I never expereinced this kind of crap in ACII.. And this game is buggy man, there was a guy riding his horse on the roof top!
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
if you played ACII, you know very well how to be stealthy and walking up behind a guard is not actually stealthy at all
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Guards when they do spot a dead body they return to back to patrol mode way quicker than ACII ... In ACII thye actually searched around a bit.. Too be honest something tells me im in for a sloppy ride here..
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Mine mostly look around and search, not 100% of cases, but quite a lot.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
And stealth is very hit and miss.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Nope, sorry

LaMOi
12-03-2010, 03:29 PM
Hit and miss in that I can walk up behind some guards esp archers no probs slient kill.. ez... But other guards mainly ground level will like suddenly turn around and be alert and spot you and im like What the hell happned?


Thats how it seems to be hit and miss..?

(Im currenly playing around a Borgia Tower, maybe that has something to do with it, Gaurds in the red zone, maybe are alerted to your presence in a supernatural way or something? Dunno..)

flyingeaglemile
12-03-2010, 03:45 PM
Red zones are restricted areas. Guards are constantly on the watch for someone who isn`t suppose to be there, unlike in other places where they`re not looking that hard (unless if your noterity is up). So of course in red zones being stealthy is going to be a lot harder, you can`t just walk up behind them you have to actually sneak around. To be honest, I didn`t really a notice a difference between stealth in ac2 and acb.

LaMOi
12-03-2010, 04:02 PM
also you cant poison Borgia Tower Captains.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

ChaosxNetwork
12-03-2010, 04:19 PM
Stop referring back to ACII they are the same game but brotherhood has extra things. The way the guards act are no different the stealth aspect is the same...
my game is not buggy what so ever and also why is ACII such a perfect game in your eyes? It had just the same amount of recorded bugs, I even found one were a roof top archer multiplied and covered up all of Venice!

TheMusingMoose
12-03-2010, 06:04 PM
Maybe your controller is messed up...

X10J
12-03-2010, 06:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by xHITx_Chaos:
I even found one were a roof top archer multiplied and covered up all of Venice! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Awesome.

OT: try air assassinating him.

cavemanIWHAP
12-03-2010, 08:12 PM
Or use your smoke bombs to kill the guy you want then run off. Ezio/Altiar didnt always kill without being noticed but they were really good at dissappearing.

Wile E Coyoteee
12-03-2010, 10:46 PM
<LI>Well, before I go on, I just want to note that this is not a "stealth game", this is an "assassination game". A barbarian can gallop a heavy horse, stop it quickly throwing dust everywhere, jump off, scream at the top of his lungs, and have 5 guys standing behind him playing trumpets while he teabags an enemy at sword-point before actually killing him, and.. He'll have just assassinated his target. "Assassain" doesn't mean "stealth". It just means that you planned, or at least premeditated, your murder, and killed the person you intended to. The murder may or may not include actions that are deemed stealthy.

With that cleared up..


[A] I'm only a little ways into the story-line, because I spent all my time in the beginning doing Borgia towers, before I even any guilds! I think. I may have had Courtesans, but I can't remember. I may or may not have had the crossbow when I started, I can't remember. I did alot of picking pockets and renovating before I even got into any of the story line. And, I've taken down all but 3 Borgia Towers which I can't get to because they're blocked off due to the storyline right now.

Only ONE of those Borgia towers ever had a captain that got away from me, or even ran! And he was on a pier and it was designed for him to sprint to the closest door upon sight. It only took me a 3rd try to take him out. Stealth is determined by you, how you position yourself, how you observe the guard's movements, etc. You just think there's no stealth in the game because there's not an actual "stealth mechanic", that puts you in a crouch animation and walks you slower and has a bar.

[B] As far as people noticing you when you walk behind them, well.. Like someone else said, those guards are on High Alert, in a restricted section.

You have to understand these guards aren't mall cops. They're military. They're the renaissance equivalent of guys on an army base standing/walking around there with M-16's, who are high alert not only because they're under attack from a foreign nation (in this case France), but also from terrorists (in this case the Assassin's Guild), and they're also in practical civil war (in this case, the tensions between families in and around The Roman Empire are at an all-time high).

And that's just for the normal city guards!! If we're talking about Tower guards here, they have all the above to worry about, AND they're in a civilian-restricted zone. Now, imagine if you walked into a US Military Camp in Iraq or Afghanistan during the height of the war.. Wearing a turban, with an AK-74U strapped to a belt around your waist.

Do you think the guards are gonna go, "Oh, hey, what's up?" or do you think they're rifle-butt you as hard as they can in the gut, and push a barrel into your forehead while screaming, "IDENTIFY YOURSELF!!!!!!" ? I'm thinking the latter.

Also keep in mind that as paranoid as these guys have to be, and especially Borgia towers who don't have citizens walking around creating alot of noise, yes, they're probably going to hear footsteps coming up behind them if it keeps up for any more than a few steps. And yes, they probably have a "Sixth Sense", the very same way we all do when we're in a slightly paranoid situation, such as walking down a dark alley at night in a down-trodden neighborhood. You FEEL that someone's walking behind you before you even really hear them or know they're there. Yeah, it's just somebody walking by, no big deal, but you sense it, the hair stands up on your neck a bit sometimes even. It's no different for the guards in this game!


So, you don't walk behind guys for 4 miles. You sit around a corner, wait for them to walk by, and then start walking behind them, and take them out before you have to take too many steps, and it'll work pretty much every time. Infact with the hidden blade, as long as you're hitting the furthest guy back, the guys in the front wont even know right away.


[C] As far as the guards not looking around after spotting a dead body, well.. I havn't played any other AC, so I'm not sure how it was in the previous ones. But the ones here do look around and stay on high alert for a few, they just don't start tossing through hay bails and stuff. They probably could search the area for a least a little bit, I agree. But I suppose these people are somewhat used to seeing and dealing with death. You see a dead body and you're like, "Ah, that sucks. Oh well, back to work I guess, if the killer was here now and he was an assassin, I'd probably be dead already. I'll notify someone". I mean what else is there to do really, unless you put on a full city-wide search for the killer like modern day police, which would be pretty taxing on the gameplay for most people.


[D] As far as selecting a weapon, I usually use RB to select my stuff because it freezes the game and allows you to make sure you pick the right one. After a while you pick it about as fast as the D-pad. And, about not pulling it out right away, well.. It's kinda hard to pull something out immediately when 5 dudes are actively smashing into your body with large metal objects. You can test this yourself, actually. Infact we'll even make it easier on you, and instead of having you make a sheath and get a weapon out of that (which is MUCH harder), just buy a roll of velcro. Stick two pieces to your hip next to each other, and then get some of those soft foam nerf bats (not the baseball ones lol). Put a piece on 2 different bats. Have one in your hand, and one velcroed on to your hip.

Now, invite 5 friends over. Have 1 nerf bat in your hand, and give 4 to your friends. Have 4 of them start beating you mercilessly with nerf bats, while the 5th friend pushes you around. While this is all going on, take the bat in your hand, velcro it securely to the remaining piece of velcro on your hip, making sure it doesn't fall off, and then rip off the second bat.

Between the force of blows landing on you (simulated by the pushing, since the nerf bats are just laughable and obviously don't knock you around), your friend's bats knocking yours out of the way, bats flying in your face, your nerves shooting off in all directions as blows land all over you even just from nerf bats, and trying to keep your footing, I'm willing to bet it would take you a solid 20-40 seconds just to VELCRO one bat on and take the other one off. Now imagine doing that with a sword or dagger that has to go in a sheath.. Now imagine that you're not getting hit with nerf bats, but heavy metal blunt objects with slight wedges (maces) and giant pieces of sharp steel.

It's an absolute MIRACLE that he can even change weapons at all! You could also do the smart thing, and change weapons after using RT+A to dodge out of the way of a strike, buying yourself a little window, or, even break your lock on the target, run away a few steps while drawing the new weapon, and then run back in. :P

LaMOi
12-04-2010, 08:47 AM
Thanks for that - some good information there..


I meant like appraoching gaurds from behind, sometimes they turn around and spot you.... yet the guards on the roof dont do that.. Seems bit inconsistant..


Im getting to grips with now tho..

ZCherub
12-04-2010, 10:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Wile_E_Coyotee:
<LI>Well, before I go on... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lol - you're my new favorite person on here. Amusing & informative!

Mutley_Rulz
12-04-2010, 02:54 PM
If you can't get to him on the same ground, either get above him and strike from above, stay below and wait for your chance to pull him down, or kill him from afar with the crossbow/poison darts.

Rainie
12-04-2010, 06:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LaMOi:
but the Borgia Captian is walking around with 3 guards behind him, I mean how the heck you stealth kill him?

And he seems to possess super human hearing and sight? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hid and used the hidden gun, once I took out the captain I hid again to avoid them seeing me http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif


Stealth is possible in this game but you have to be patient and sometimes take out the guards one at a time first

godsmack_darius
12-05-2010, 05:48 PM
Tip to people who have trouble doing stalth...

Guard patterns change at night, if you see that there no oteher way to run tokill the guard, abort mission, and go in at night.

OR, before you accept the mission, check the guard patterns during night and day and see which is easier

LightRey
12-06-2010, 01:35 AM
Listen, I've got this great method for being stealthy.
It's...
Don't let them notice you.
Works every time. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Jack-Reacher
12-06-2010, 02:12 AM
I have recorded each tower now, I managed to kill each captain without being seen. I will be uploading them soon but the two story missions wont be uploaded, and there are 3 towers that are really easy so I didnt bother with them either