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View Full Version : OT: Your chance to attack a grammar Nazi.



Flying_Nutcase
09-16-2005, 06:42 PM
An evil conspiracy exists to corrupt the structure of the English language and to replace English as the world's default tool of communication. Are you an unwitting pawn in this master scheme?

Just fooling around.

But let's remember that:

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI> "your" is used like "my", "your", "his".
<LI> "you're" is short of "You are" and is used like "I am", "You are", "He is".
[/list]

Correct: "Your flying skills are awesome." :-)
Corrupt: "You're flying skills are awesome." :-(

Correct: "You're an awesome pilot." :-)
Corrupt: "Your an awesome pilot." :-(

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

Flying_Nutcase
09-16-2005, 06:42 PM
An evil conspiracy exists to corrupt the structure of the English language and to replace English as the world's default tool of communication. Are you an unwitting pawn in this master scheme?

Just fooling around.

But let's remember that:

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI> "your" is used like "my", "your", "his".
<LI> "you're" is short of "You are" and is used like "I am", "You are", "He is".
[/list]

Correct: "Your flying skills are awesome." :-)
Corrupt: "You're flying skills are awesome." :-(

Correct: "You're an awesome pilot." :-)
Corrupt: "Your an awesome pilot." :-(

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

Kuna15
09-16-2005, 06:48 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif I'm really too weak for that kind of distinction in English language. No pun intended, I manage the best I can.

"sorry english not good" as legendary nakamura_kenji would say. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-HH- Beebop
09-16-2005, 07:00 PM
I'm with you FN if the user's native tongue is English. There's just no excuse for not utilizing the language properly. The school system holds a lot of responsibility in this as well as parents.

If the user's native language is not English, all is forgiven. English is one of the most confusing languages on the planet and homonyms don't help a bit!
Plus, too many people rely on Uncle Billys' spellcheck function which is as useful as tits on a boar.
Finally, (finally!), in defense of those who's first language is English, it would help if they brought back the "preview" function to these forums.

WarWolfe_1
09-16-2005, 07:19 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif Your a grammer NAZI!!!!!

English is a strange langauge, it doesn't help with all the local dialicts either.

Em Fools up north can do nothing right. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

VFS-214_Hawk
09-16-2005, 07:21 PM
Hello, us south georgia rednecks talk that way, why caInt foriners?

BelaLvgosi
09-16-2005, 07:55 PM
Hah, I can't count the times I've seen that around. The funny thing is that those like me who don't have English as their first language usually don't do that mistake, simply because we learnt the theory for some words. "Their" vs "They're" is quite common too.

nickdanger3
09-16-2005, 08:08 PM
http://www.bustedtees.com/images/your******ed.283.product_featured.jpg
Nuff said

Kuna15
09-16-2005, 08:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BelaLvgosi:
Hah, I can't count the times I've seen that around. The funny thing is that those like me who don't have English as their first language usually don't do that mistake, simply because we learnt the theory for some words. "Their" vs "They're" is quite common too. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with that. I wrote my above post bearing in mind that I can't be sure in general that I couldn't do some gramar error that will offend someone.

But now that I think about it I can see (or at least I hope) that I am using that phrase correctly.

carguy_
09-17-2005, 04:26 AM
I appreciate this thread very much http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
I see those things everyday.

Couple of questions.

1.I see people say "is okay" instead of "it`s okay".Is this correct also?

2.When should I type "it`s" and when "its"?

3.Does "cuz"(as "because") function in English?

4."Gesundheit" is German word right?

5.Which word(s) is(are) correctly written:nonetheless or none the less?

Kuna15
09-17-2005, 04:37 AM
1."Is okay" is correct as well as "it's okay". Depends on how we put it.

"Your aim is okay".
"It's okay... I'll live".

2.It's=it is
Its, his.. etc.

"It is good" --correct
"Its good" --bad http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"Its engine is awesome" --correct
"It is engine awesome" --bad, means nothing

3."Cuz" means nothing (in grammar terms http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif) afaik. Only slang of because.. it is however used as abbreviation often. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

4.Me thinks so, yes.(corrected: I think so, yes. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif)

5."Nonetheless" is correct afaik (also "nevertheless").

skabbe
09-17-2005, 04:40 AM
cool, but personaly i am a language wildman. never use fancy styff like '´I. He ect

Dunkelgrun
09-17-2005, 05:14 AM
I'm with Nutcase in the Grammar Nazi Division, probably a General http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif. Also Spelling Officer and Proofreader for 242 Squadron http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

The things that drive me insane are :

'mackeral' instead of 'mackerel' (pub menu boards everywhere);

'Banana's xx/kilo' (what belongs to a banana?);

and this, the ultimate nonsense: 'I would of done it this way...' etc. 'Would have' pleeeeease.


All non-native English speakers are excused, although, as it's been pointed out above, they tend to have learned the language and its use correctly and don't make these lazy mistakes.

I'm not surprised at how weak people's grammar is though; I don't remember any English grammar lessons at school, just corrections in red all over my essays! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Cheers!

Vike
09-17-2005, 05:18 AM
And what about those sentences i see very often:

"You is wrong"

instead of:

"You are wrong"

Or

"Me is the best"

instead of:

"I am the best"

???http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif???

LStarosta
09-17-2005, 05:40 AM
Incorrect: 2 weeks, be sure.

Correct: Whenever I feel like it, GOSH!

JG52Uther
09-17-2005, 06:38 AM
I am English,have been for 40 years http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif and it confuses the h*ll out of me.Thats why i am learning German http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Dunkelgrun
09-17-2005, 06:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Vike:
And what about those sentences i see very often:

"You is wrong"

instead of:

"You are wrong"

Or

"Me is the best"

instead of:

"I am the best"

???http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif??? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

'You is wrong' is an oft-quoted Olegism, as for the other one, I haven't seen it.

Cheers!

WarWolfe_1
09-17-2005, 06:56 AM
yall aint never gonna learned ifin ya dont go ta schools. As Jeff Foxworthy would say.

You folks sould try learning cherokee, theres no R in cherokee langauge.

willyvic
09-17-2005, 07:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WarWolfe_1:
yall aint never gonna learned ifin ya dont go ta schools. As Jeff Foxworthy would say.

You folks sould try learning cherokee, theres no R in cherokee langauge. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


That's "there's" no R in "the" "Cherokee" language, WarWolfe. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

han freak solo
09-17-2005, 07:52 AM
You could try your hand at Spanglish, too. Plenty of it here in Texas. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanglish

foxyboy1964
09-17-2005, 08:12 AM
I am British, the Scottish variety, and as far as I can remember grammer was only taught to those staying on at school beyond the age of 16. The only hard and fast rule I can remember was that you NEVER start a sentence with the word "but". But having said that no one in the adult world seems to pay much heed to that. The English language is being globalized in a new way my friends, so I suppose we better just get used to it. Anyway, in another 50 years or so it will probably be some form of Chinese that takes over as the "international" language. IMHO.

Kuna15
09-17-2005, 08:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by foxyboy1964:
The only hard and fast rule I can remember was that you NEVER start a sentence with the word "but". But having said that no one in the adult world seems to pay much heed to that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I did not know that. Well as someone here often says, you can learn something new every day.

But anyway... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Low_Flyer_MkII
09-17-2005, 08:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WarWolfe_1:
yall aint never gonna learned ifin ya dont go ta schools. As Jeff Foxworthy would say.

You folks sould try learning cherokee, theres no R in cherokee langauge. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So how do they pronounce 'Che<span class="ev_code_RED">r</span>okee'?

It's questions like this that keep me awake at nights.

neural_dream
09-17-2005, 09:15 AM
What's the point of this thread? Angloamerican kids usually learn only their language and even that one incorrectly. What's the big deal. Teach your kids correct English if that annoys you.

And btw English is not the world's default tool of communication. Not even close. Oh God i used "and" as the first word in a sentence. I must be illiterate.

EURO_Snoopy
09-17-2005, 09:28 AM
So which is correct here?

A: The yolk of an egg is white
B: The yolk of an egg are white

Kuna15
09-17-2005, 09:30 AM
"Is" version. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

If subject is single (one) then "is" if it is multi then "are". I think.

geoffspear
09-17-2005, 09:34 AM
Oh, don't get me started. I've spent my whole life being a pedant, and I'm far too old to stop now.

Watch out for "who's" and "whose" as well.

As to spelling, I remember when my school proudly acquired a minibus to transport its sporting teams to exotic locations - and then had "Royal Grammer School" emblazoned on the side...

-HH- Beebop
09-17-2005, 09:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by EURO_Snoopy:
So which is correct here?

A: The yolk of an egg is white
B: The yolk of an egg are white </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
They are both correct.
A. Singular
B. Plural

-HH- Beebop
09-17-2005, 09:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dunkelgrun:
...'Banana's xx/kilo' (what belongs to a banana?) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You bring up an interesting point. Use of the comma with possesive nouns.
I seem to remember being taught that a comma before the 's' "pluralized" (not a real word) the noun while a comma after the 's' gave it possesion.
i.e.:
The Smith's are coming to dinner. (several members of the Smith family will be present)

Smiths' Office Supplies. (The business belongs to a person named Smith)

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I don't remember any English grammar lessons at school, just corrections in red all over my essays! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hmm, I remember grammer being taught in school. Must be showing my age.
(On this day: Beebop is born. Dirt is invented) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

foxyboy1964
09-17-2005, 09:51 AM
Flying Nutcase, look what you've started http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif. If there are any qualified English teachers on the forum for Gods sake chip in now, please.

geoffspear
09-17-2005, 10:00 AM
OK guys, here goes (don't say I didn't warn you http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)

"Yolk" is singular, "yolks" is plural ("yolk" goes with "is", "yolks" goes with "are")

"Banana's xxx/kilo" is wrong.

Put an "s" on a noun to make it plural: banana - bananas

"'s" makes possessive singular: This plane's guns are undermodelled

"s'" makes possessive plural: These planes' guns... (more than one plane). The normal plural is "planes" so the "s" is already there

BUT if the plural doesn't already end in "s" (for example "children") then you use the "'s" option: children's

Well, there you go. Clear as mud. But then, as I always used to tell my students when I was an English teacher, "If you aren't confused, you've misunderstood"

Low_Flyer_MkII
09-17-2005, 10:03 AM
You got 'em snoopy, you got 'em good http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Dunkelgrun
09-17-2005, 10:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by geoffspear:
OK guys, here goes (don't say I didn't warn you http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)

"Banana's xxx/kilo" is wrong.

Put an "s" on a noun to make it plural: banana - bananas

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I knew that! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif


BeeBop, I'm going back to the late '60s and early '70s for schooldays so am of great age too! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I still can't remember being taught English grammar (at a Grammar School too, although that is irrelevant); perhaps it's me. Perhaps all of that beer (see another thread!) has erased a few memories!


Neural_Dream, the point of this thread is to allow those of us who get pissed off at seeing poorly written English to have a good old rant! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Its relevance to the sim? The evidence is in every thread. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


Cheers!

WarWolfe_1
09-17-2005, 10:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Low_Flyer_MkII:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WarWolfe_1:
yall aint never gonna learned ifin ya dont go ta schools. As Jeff Foxworthy would say.

You folks sould try learning cherokee, theres no R in cherokee langauge. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So how do they pronounce 'Che<span class="ev_code_RED">r</span>okee'?

It's questions like this that keep me awake at nights. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cherokee = tsa-la-gi
Wolf = wa-ya
Lightning = a-na-ga-li-s-gi
Baby = u-s-di-ga OR u-s-ti-i
All of these are in english translation


The Lords Prayer in Cherokee syllabary
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a244/WarWolfe/cherokee-s.jpg

-HH- Beebop
09-17-2005, 10:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dunkelgrun:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by geoffspear:
OK guys, here goes (don't say I didn't warn you http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)

"Banana's xxx/kilo" is wrong.

Put an "s" on a noun to make it plural: banana - bananas

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I knew that! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif


BeeBop, I'm going back to the late '60s and early '70s for schooldays so am of great age too! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I still can't remember being taught English grammar (at a Grammar School too, although that is irrelevant); perhaps it's me. Perhaps all of that beer (see another thread!) has erased a few memories!


Neural_Dream, the point of this thread is to allow those of us who get pissed off at seeing poorly written English to have a good old rant! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Its relevance to the sim? The evidence is in every thread. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


Cheers! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
geoffspear;
Thank you for clearing that up http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif (seriously, thanks)

Dunkelgrun;
I'm guessing your British. We never had "Grammer" Schools, just Grammer School, now known as Elementary School (ages 5-12) I was taught phonetics in 1st-3rd grade and grammer in 4th-6th grades. As a result I can actually pronounce words by looking at the sylables and sounding them out. (Some of the medical stuff takes a bit though)

EURO_Snoopy
09-17-2005, 10:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kuna15:
"Is" version. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

If subject is single (one) then "is" if it is multi then "are". I think. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So you can say the yolk of an egg is white for one egg and the yolk of more than one egg are white? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Confusing isn't it? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

fordfan25
09-17-2005, 10:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VFS-214_Hawk:
Hello, us south georgia rednecks talk that way, why caInt foriners? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i feel yea man. north florida redneck heya. dont worry about them theayier fornerers. thay aint meanen nofen any way. i gottsa 12 gauge that says i can be talkn any waayy i wanna talk.

WarWolfe_1
09-17-2005, 10:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">(Some of the medical stuff takes a bit though) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Doctor name is another story.

-HH- Beebop
09-17-2005, 10:54 AM
WarWolfe;

might be my settings in IE6. For the longest time I couldn't access Flying Legends to download, only view. Still to see the skin I have to go to the download page where it does show. Then when I return it shows on the listing page. But once I log out and rejoin, those pics are gone and I have to re-do it. small problem though. At least I can d/l now.

BTW, now an http link shows but still no pic. did you add the link?
(I'm currently in the process of running my regular cleaning schedule w/AdAware/Spybot/SpySweeper)

WarWolfe_1
09-17-2005, 11:05 AM
Yeah I added the link to make it easy for people to see.

Thats alot to go through to get some skins. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

I toyed with my PSP8 settings when I first got it, had to uninstall then reinstall to get it back to normal. I think you would have to remove windows to reset IE though, not worth doing just for a pisky Sig.

Low_Flyer_MkII
09-17-2005, 11:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WarWolfe_1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Low_Flyer_MkII:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WarWolfe_1:
yall aint never gonna learned ifin ya dont go ta schools. As Jeff Foxworthy would say.

You folks sould try learning cherokee, theres no R in cherokee langauge. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



So how do they pronounce 'Che<span class="ev_code_RED">r</span>okee'?

It's questions like this that keep me awake at nights. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cherokee = tsa-la-gi
Wolf = wa-ya
Lightning = a-na-ga-li-s-gi
Baby = u-s-di-ga OR u-s-ti-i
All of these are in english translation


The Lords Prayer in Cherokee syllabary </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks - I have an interest in languages, hope I didn't sound flippant

Pirschjaeger
09-17-2005, 11:28 AM
Ha ha ha, dude, you put the "nut" in Nutcais. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Fritz

MEGILE
09-17-2005, 11:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kuna15:

"sorry english not good" as legendary nakamura_kenji would say. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's very interesting to watch Kenji type English. His English for all intent and purposes is absolutely perfect, and he conveys what he means, even when using non-standard grammatical constructions.

Pirschjaeger
09-17-2005, 11:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Megile:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kuna15:

"sorry english not good" as legendary nakamura_kenji would say. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's very interesting to watch Kenji type English. His English for all intent and purposes is absolutely perfect, and he conveys what he means, even when using non-standard grammatical constructions. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I sekond dat. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Fritz

Hiriyu
09-17-2005, 11:40 AM
Heil to the Grammar Nazis. What bothers me most are the viral spelling errors that I encounter across the web. By viral, I mean that their usage seems to spread among people unconsciously. I generally don't comment, but since this thread is here...

Among my personal pet peeves:

1) "Rediculous" - It is spelled 'ridiculous' folks, as in 'Ridicule'. If in doubt, sound it out. Google search shows about 1,120,000 instances. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

2) "Retarted" - I see this one far too often. The word is '******ed'. One 'T'. Google search shows about 330,000 offenders. If you post a comment such as "This game is retarted", don't be surprised that some people think that you are. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

MEGILE
09-17-2005, 11:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:


I sekond dat. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Fritz </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yuo nice?

Dunkelgrun
09-17-2005, 12:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by -HH- Beebop:
Dunkelgrun;
I'm guessing your British. We never had "Grammer" Schools, just Grammer School, now known as Elementary School (ages 5-12) I was taught phonetics in 1st-3rd grade and grammer in 4th-6th grades. As a result I can actually pronounce words by looking at the sylables and sounding them out. (Some of the medical stuff takes a bit though) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Does it show that much? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Our grammar schools are (or were, changes to the education system did away with a lot of them) secondary schools, age 11-16+ depending on when you decide to leave.
I have just looked up why a grammar school is called so, I knew it wasn't anything to do with the teaching of English grammar. So, historically it was a school founded for the teaching of Latin, they became academic secondary schools much later on. Interesting that in the US the grammar schools are elementary; I wonder how that name started with you.

Here's something else that I found out when looking this up. 'Grammar' comes from the French 'gramaire' and Latin 'grammatica'. In the Middle Ages 'grammatica' was often used to mean 'learning', and because many people associated scholarship with magic, 'grammar' seems to have taken on the meaning 'enchantment, magic'. In the 18th Century in Scottish English 'grammar' changed to 'glamour' which became used for 'magic' and later, 'attractive and enchanting'.
So the **** Scots have been mangling the English language for a long time! (Waits patiently for the traditional anti-English riposte from the Scots among us http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif).

Just as well that the Scots changed it though; imagine thinking that (insert favourite model/movie star/girlfriend etc.) is very 'grammarous'! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Cheers!

Pirschjaeger
09-17-2005, 12:57 PM
I used to worry about my grammar and spelling much more than I do now. But I've come to realise that it's not so important. Often, I feel the grammar mistakes or even spelling mistakes make the text a little more interesting, especially in a forum such as this one.

When we are face to face and conversing we hear the differences in voices, tones, and accents which gives us character identities. In the forum we lose the audibles but we gain consistant writing styles which identifies character. I don't mind the mistakes.

These mistakes are what keeps the languages evolving and interesting. Do you guyz know that the "wh" combination in words such as "who, what, where, why" is not properly pronounced like "w"? It's a little hard to explain but if you know any Welsh they will be glad to say it properly for you. This is just one example of thousands.

What is proper English? Tire and Tyre are equally accepted, the latter being most correct a hundred years ago. The former is most correct today.

In my opinion, proper English, based on the arguments I hear, can be easily answered. I submit "Beowulf".

Language evolves.

Fritz

Ankanor
09-17-2005, 02:15 PM
Pirschjaeger, ju neis? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

and if we're thinking about the same "who" like in who the f*ck are you? it's not pronounced like which, why, whether, etc.

To quote Al Pacino form "Heat"
[After a certain guy repeatedly says "who?"]
Hu-hu, what are you, a f*cking owl? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

horseback
09-17-2005, 02:25 PM
Back in my day (I'm 52), grammar was taught throughout elementary (grades 1-6, ages 6 -11) junior high (grades 7 & 8), and high school (grades 9-12). It was an ongoing battle, but I (and many others) found that English grammar became vastly clearer when I began studying a foreign language.

When I returned to college several years after high school (a hitch in the military and a 'road job' intervening), things had changed. My English instructors (one with a ludicrously thick Hispanic accent) informed me that English is an 'evolving' language, defined by the people who speak it, which I take to mean that anything goes, everybody is right, and being 'politically correct' is more important than communicating clearly.

Once upon a time, radio and television news announcers, the local newspaper, and national magazines could be counted on for examples of 'proper' grammar, but they have been the victims of the new interpretation of current usage. Often, the radio news is the very worst source of public bad grammar.

English is, however, a very flexible communications tool, and I believe that it is one of the primary reasons for the success of Anglo-American dominance of recent history. English speakers have access to a huge vocabulary for expressing ideas and concepts, and have almost always shamelessly borrowed words and concepts as needed from other languages to express new ideas.

Grammar and apostrophes aside, I think English will continue to be a major language because of that flexibility, much like Greek remained a powerful influence long after Greek dominance of ancient world (okay Mediterranean) affairs.

cheers

horseback

foxyboy1964
09-17-2005, 02:57 PM
@ Dunklgrun...what anti English riposte are you talking about? I was deilghted by your teams recent success in the cricket. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

JG52Uther
09-17-2005, 03:20 PM
Please hurry up Oleg,its getting crazy in here http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

PBNA-Boosher
09-17-2005, 04:04 PM
Anyone here seen My Fair Lady?
I might suggest the song: Why can't the English Learn to Speak

Aaron_GT
09-17-2005, 05:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I am British, the Scottish variety, and as far as I can remember grammer [sic] was only taught to those staying on at school beyond the age of 16. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

We had plenty of grammar taught to us when I was at school in the 1970s and 80s. Perhaps it is not emphasised as much these days?

Aaron_GT
09-17-2005, 05:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> I (and many others) found that English grammar became vastly clearer when I began studying a foreign language. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think studying a foreign language certainly helps, not least because you need to know the grammar of the new language, but you should know the basic terminology (nouns, verbs and the like beforehand). Mind you, some of the tenses available in some languages (Portuguese for example, which seems to have a special tense for something you might do next next Thursday, on condition it is wet) take a lot of explaining. The logic of doing Latin at the school I attended was that it shed light on grammar and would help with English.

Aaron_GT
09-17-2005, 05:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The Smith's are coming to dinner. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What plural objects belonging to someone called Smith are coming to dinner?

It should be "The Smiths are coming to dinner".

Apostrophes should be used for possessives or missing letters. There is some confusion over the latter, though, as technically a valid plural for several televisions is TV's, but these days TVs is also valid, and also something belonging to a single TV is TV's. These days TVs is preferred as the plural form. The same applies to the 1970's, which are typically referred to as the 1970s these days. Also the opposite of don'ts are do's with an apostrophe. But contrary to what many market traders believe the plural of carrot is not carrot's!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">These planes' guns </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It gets difficult if you want to refer to the many bullets fired from the many guns of the many planes.

Jester_159th
09-17-2005, 05:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by -HH- Beebop:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by EURO_Snoopy:
So which is correct here?

A: The yolk of an egg is white
B: The yolk of an egg are white </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
They are both correct.
A. Singular
B. Plural </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Actually, neither of those options is correct.

The yolk of an egg is YELLOW!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

......Or should that have been "Neither of those options ARE correct?"

Luftwaffe_109
09-17-2005, 07:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">seem to remember being taught that a comma before the 's' "pluralized" (not a real word) the noun while a comma after the 's' gave it possesion.
i.e.:
The Smith's are coming to dinner. (Several members of the Smith family will be present).

Smiths' Office Supplies. (The business belongs to a person named Smith). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dear me, no that is not right.

Your two examples should be, respectively:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The Smiths' are coming to dinner. (Several members of the Smith family are coming).

Smith's Office Supplies. (The office supplies belong to Smith). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Apostrophes, whether before or after s', are used to form the possessive of a word. Apostrophes are always to be placed before an s when creating a possessive unless the word already ends in an s, in which case simply adding an apostrophe is enough to make it possessive (you may still add an s after the apostrophe if you wish, but I don€t).

Eg:

-The Cat. The Cat's dinner.
-George Stevens. George Stevens' car.
-The ducks (note, in this case the word ends in s because it is plural, not because the singular noun ends in s as before). The ducks' lake.

An apostrophe after an s may also be used to transform a singular word ending in s to plural.

Eg:

Geroge Stevens, Mary Stevens and James Stevens are, together, the Stevens'.

Hope that helps. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Best Regards

Pirschjaeger
09-17-2005, 09:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ankanor:
Pirschjaeger, ju neis? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

and if we're thinking about the same "who" like in who the f*ck are you? it's not pronounced like which, why, whether, etc.

To quote Al Pacino form "Heat"
[After a certain guy repeatedly says "who?"]
Hu-hu, what are you, a f*cking owl? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually I posted that at 3 am. But, I must add that "who" is not properly pronounced "hu" and is slightly different than the "wh" in "what".

Let's see if I can explain in regards to "what, when, where, why, white, whether". Imagine the shape of your lips when blowing out a candle. Now, imagine the sound made when blowing out the candle. Now put this together with the "w" but not voiced. The common pronounciation today is a voiced "w" but this is not the original.

With the "wh" in "who", it's the same except instead of pronouncing the "w'w we pronounce the "h" and blow out the candle at the same time.

I was taught this by an old Welsh English teacher (Mr. Nickerson) when I was a child, going back a little over 30 years. To be honest I didn't really know if should believe before I read the same thing in a linguistics book. I have however, always practice what he had preached and over the years have received compliments.

I didn't post this to argue over what is right or wrong as much as I wanted to point out the differences over time and demographics.

In 2000, in a paper from Oxford, it was stated the English has over 600,000 words and 200,000 technical terms. Oxford also accepts around 4000 new words annually. Now here we are aguing over what is right or wrong?

I've studied German, French, Arabic, and Chinese. English is an amazing language and maybe the most unique. So many languages have contributed so much to English and non more so than French and Latin, thanks to a 200 year occupation of England by France. English is a great language for communicating ideas or feelings. You can say so much with so little. In legal form it's totally annoying where as French and German is so practical. Compare same contracts written in English, French, and German. You'll find English requires much more wood.

I can go on with this forever but I'll spare you guyz.

I agree with the corrections of obvious spelling errors or grammar uses but it also depends on the context and where they are posted. I still believe effective and efficient communication is what is most important.

Got it? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Fritz

panther3485
09-18-2005, 12:30 AM
Hi guys!

Somebody mentioned the time factor, with one spelling of a word being predominant 100 years ago and a different spelling being more accepted today. The example given was 'Tyre' and 'Tire'.

With this particular example (and many others) the validity of the statement depends heavily on geography. No doubt, if you are a citizen of the USA 'Tire' would be widely (if not totally) accepted as correct. Elsewhere in the English Speaking world the exact opposite is the case.

Bear in mind that English is the primary language in a good number of countries and spelling considered correct in one might be held to be incorrect in another. (I've seen some instances where these differences have attracted laughter and even ridicule.)

An even greater range of differences (and sometimes a lot more laughter) applies when it comes to Pronunciation.

There a far fewer regional differences (regarding 'correct' vs 'incorrect') when it comes to Grammar and Punctuation. This would seem to make sense to me, as these are more important for clear communication.

On another note, I would agree with some of the other posts on this thread regarding examples and what is being taught. 30 to 40 years ago, in my experience, Radio and TV News Readers could be thoroughly relied upon as near perfect examples of spoken English. Today, forget it.

Ever wondered why some kids' spelling seems so bad and swear blind to yourself that you, and most of your peers, could spell better at that age? Check out the teachers! Some of them could not write a page without spelling and grammatical errors.

To be fair, in Australia at least, awareness of this has been raised in recent years and efforts have been made to address the problem. I have seen some improvement. I remember back in the 70's, the Education Departments here (in their infinte wisdom) introduced the 'Word Recognition' method for teaching younger kids.

The idea was to teach pronunciation WITHOUT breaking a word into its component syllables, but relying instead on visual recognition of the whole word. This was then combined with the general idea that spelling was no longer to be a priority in written English. It was thought that correct spelling could 'come later', when the kids had mastered the basics of sentence structure and context.

This produced rather dubious results and some of the kids who were products of this trendy educational 'experiment' are now the teachers!

And now, the latest trend here is the so-called 'Outcomes Based' teaching method. Each child is to proceed at his/her own pace. Kids are no longer to be compared with each other or benchmarked to any set standards. When reports come home, they will be couched in very vague terms and parents will have no real idea how their kid has measured up over the year.

The proposition has met with widespread protest, even from among the teachers themselves, who have been given no clear guidelines as to how this will actually work. It is still being vigorously debated here.

Food for thought.

Best regards,
panther3485

Luftwaffe_109
09-18-2005, 12:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I remember back in the 70's, the Education Departments here (in their infinte wisdom) introduced the 'Word Recognition' method for teaching younger kids.

The idea was to teach pronunciation WITHOUT breaking a word into its component syllables, but relying instead on visual recognition of the whole word. This was then combined with the general idea that spelling was no longer to be a priority in written English. It was thought that correct spelling could 'come later', when the kids had mastered the basics of sentence structure and context.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Curious. When I learnt English (I learnt it as a second language) we were first taught the alphabet and the sounds that each letter made. Then we were taught how to pronounce words using these sounds, and in which cases different sounds are used.

After learning the basics of pronunciation we began to study the vocabulary (including spelling) and the grammar rules (which are, thankfully, not overly complex but still essential). We also learnt the punctuation rules.

For me spelling is by far the hardest part of English compared with its relatively easy grammar. How a teacher can expect the student to use "word recognition" to spell unfamiliar words rather than sounding them out by each syllable, especially when they are still learning the language, puzzles me greatly.

Kuna15
09-18-2005, 01:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by EURO_Snoopy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kuna15:
"Is" version. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

If subject is single (one) then "is" if it is multi then "are". I think. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So you can say the yolk of an egg is white for one egg and the yolk of more than one egg are white? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Confusing isn't it? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes I can see that. I would say that this is maybe the exception from rule...
"Yolk" word is then the same for singular and plural, TBH I didn't know what yolk even means before. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif
If there is "yolks" word in existence, then maybe in that case "are" would be appliable. Anyway i am learning... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jester_159th:
Actually, neither of those options is correct.

The yolk of an egg is YELLOW!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

lol I didn't even noticed. Anyway E-Snoopy can say now: "Gotcha!!!" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Kuna15
09-18-2005, 01:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Megile:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kuna15:

"sorry english not good" as legendary nakamura_kenji would say. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's very interesting to watch Kenji type English. His English for all intent and purposes is absolutely perfect, and he conveys what he means, even when using non-standard grammatical constructions. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes. Since I don't know the spirit of Japanese language (I presume that he's Japanese) it is very likely that he is speaking (writing) in the spirit of his native language. I often succumb to that also. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Stackhouse25th
09-18-2005, 01:34 AM
the people who have had an education have not known any better in an institutionalized life, you cant help but realize they dont like anything outside of this institution whether it contain certain grammer mistakes, or improper spelling/punctuation.

is it hard to believe? no. Should you treat them poorly because theyve been through an institution? Not at all. I feel sad for those who want nothing but to blame them.

Go study some books!

carguy_
09-18-2005, 06:11 AM
Ok so when do I type "who,who`s,whoose,whom" bits?

luftluuver
09-18-2005, 07:54 AM
How many times do you 'noone' written?

This should be written 'no one'.

geoffspear
09-18-2005, 08:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Ok so when do I type "who,who`s,whoose,whom" bits? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Who" asks a question: "Who developed this game?"

Or it refers back to someone already mentioned: "The guy who developed this game"

In this case, grammatically, "who" is also the subject of the verb that comes after it; in other words, you'd say "he developed this game" (not "him developed this game")

Now, strictly speaking, if the person referred to is grammatically the object not the subject, then you should say "whom": "The guy whom I saw" ("I saw him", not "I saw he"; "I" is the subject of the verb). In practice, however, you can normally use "who" here too - most people don't make the distinction. Some might tell you that "The guy who I saw" is wrong, but many native speakers don't feel it's necessary to say that.

"Who's" is short for "who is" or "who has". The apostrophe shows that something has been left out: "The guy who's done most to improve this game" ("who's" = "who has") or "Who's going to correct this?" ("Who's" = "Who is")

"Whose" shows possession, who it belongs to: "The guy whose name appears on the box" (it's his name) or asks a question about possession: "Whose game is this?"

It's difficult to explain, but less complex than in German, for example, where all these endings are strictly adhered to (except in Swiss German, which has just one word for "who", "which", "that" and "whom")

panther3485
09-18-2005, 09:02 AM
Hi, Luftwaffe_109

quote:
I remember back in the 70's, the Education Departments here (in their infinite wisdom) introduced the 'Word Recognition' method for teaching younger kids.

The idea was to teach pronunciation WITHOUT breaking a word into its component syllables, but relying instead on visual recognition of the whole word. This was then combined with the general idea that spelling was no longer to be a priority in written English. It was thought that correct spelling could 'come later', when the kids had mastered the basics of sentence structure and context.
________________________________________________

Curious. When I learnt English (I learnt it as a second language) we were first taught the alphabet and the sounds that each letter made. Then we were taught how to pronounce words using these sounds, and in which cases different sounds are used.

After learning the basics of pronunciation we began to study the vocabulary (including spelling) and the grammar rules (which are, thankfully, not overly complex but still essential). We also learnt the punctuation rules.

For me spelling is by far the hardest part of English compared with its relatively easy grammar. How a teacher can expect the student to use "word recognition" to spell unfamiliar words rather than sounding them out by each syllable, especially when they are still learning the language, puzzles me greatly.
________________________________________________


I remember those times very well. It puzzled most parents greatly here too. It also made some of us angry and frustrated. Our protests fell on deaf ears.

The 'Word Recognition' method was introduced here during the late 70s and was intended as the new, 'enlightened' way to teach kids how to pronounce words. It was not used to teach spelling.

It's just that this new method for teaching pronunciation appeared around the same time as another 'trendy' idea was starting to take hold, this idea being that spelling was henceforth to be regarded as relatively unimportant.

25 to 30 years down the track, the results speak for themselves.

I don't know about other countries, but here we have had a number of things done by governments and bureaucracies (not just in education) that clearly go against what most people would regard as sensible or fair.

We now have this 'Outcomes Based' nonsense to be imposed upon us and once again, we face a battle. As before, the government and senior bureaucrats seem deaf to all the protests.

It's tempting to digress to other areas of government decision making that have obviously been driven by vocal ****head minorities. (They often have warped agendas and an obsession with political correctness, combined with more influence than they rightfully deserve.) As it's not relevant to this thread, I'll resist that temptation!

Best regards,
panther3485

ImpStarDuece
09-18-2005, 09:12 AM
Having just taught grammar in a Japanese High School and Junior High School for a year, I can inform you all the the English language is both cunning and pernicious.

One of the farewell notes I recieved from my students had a sentnece that ran something like this:

"Saimon is very goog English Teach"

I loved the sentiment, but dispaired of the execution.

I acted as a PAID grammar Nazi. That makes me a little bit more evil than the rest of you, I guess.

FI_Willie
09-18-2005, 10:45 AM
I was taught English by 2 very old grammar gestapo teachers. I relish the memory of their English wisdom.

The first teacher that comes to mind was Mrs. Jesse Short. I'm sure that she was educated during the Spanish Inquisition. Her constant companion was an 18" wooden ruler that was applied liberally to offending hands and heads. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif.

The other teacher of note was Mr. D. P. Morris. He was an anti aircraft gunner in the USN during WWII. He was aboard 2 different ships in the Pacific that were sunk whilst he was stationed aboard them. The first was torpedoed and the second was sunk by a kamikaze. He never spoke of his service in class and I found out about his story after his death.

Horseback wrote;
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">When I returned to college several years after high school (a hitch in the military and a 'road job' intervening), things had changed. My English instructors (one with a ludicrously thick Hispanic accent) informed me that English is an 'evolving' language, defined by the people who speak it, which I take to mean that anything goes, everybody is right, and being 'politically correct' is more important than communicating clearly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sad but true. I encountered much the same after I went back to college upon returning from Viet Nam and working for several years before my re-entry into college.

The world could use a few more Mrs. Short and Mr Morris types these days.

carguy_
09-18-2005, 12:02 PM
Thanks, geoffspear! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Airmail109
09-18-2005, 02:42 PM
Quite frankly my good sirs, I dont give a ****. The only time I use English to such a high standard is when I am writing an essay. I write it on a computer, and so therefore have no need to use my intelligence but instead choose to use the Spellcheck/Grammar tool. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

waffen-79
09-18-2005, 04:53 PM
To English native speakers:

I often read here something which I think it's a Typo error, correct me if I'm wrong.

THAN & THEN

Correct forms according to me:

the spitfire is faster THAN the 109.
I performed a split-s THEN I returned to base.

And here in the forums some people mix them, as a non english native speaker http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I ask: Is that allowed/correct??

cheers

Luftwaffe_109
09-18-2005, 05:09 PM
"than" is a conjunction and a preposition. It is used to introduce the second element in a comparison,

-he was much smaller than his son

or to in expressions introducing an exception or a contrast,

-they observe rather than act

or in expressions indicating one thing happening immediately after another,

-scarcely was the work completed than it was abandoned.


"then" is an adverb which means "at that time",

-I was living in Cairo then

or "after that",

-she won the first and then the second game

or "therefore",

-well, that's okay then

Bit tricky, huh?

waffen-79
09-18-2005, 05:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Luftwaffe_109:
"than" is a conjunction and a preposition. It is used to introduce the second element in a comparison,

-he was much smaller than his son

or to in expressions introducing an exception or a contrast,

-they observe rather than act

or in expressions indicating one thing happening immediately after another,

-scarcely was the work completed than it was abandoned.


"then" is an adverb which means "at that time",

-I was living in Cairo then

or "after that",

-she won the first and then the second game

or "therefore",

-well, that's okay then

Bit tricky, huh? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

@Luft109

Thank GOD, I was right! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by waffen-79:
Correct forms according to me:

the spitfire is faster THAN the 109.
I performed a split-s THEN I returned to base.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Luftwaffe_109
09-18-2005, 05:26 PM
Yes indeed waffen-79, and if I may say so you have an excellent command of English. I never realised you were not a native English speaker.

If I may be so bold as to make a slight correction for you.

"I performed a split-s THEN I returned to base."

"Then" is sort of being used as a conjuction (I think so anyway, a native English speaker can confirm).

Instead it should be, "I performed a split-s and THEN I returned to base.

panther3485
09-19-2005, 04:15 AM
Hi there, waffen-79 and Luftwaffe_109
_______________________________________________
Quote:

"I performed a split-s THEN I returned to base."

Instead it should be, "I performed a split-s and THEN I returned to base.
_______________________________________________

This particular 'native English speaker' can confirm that the second version is, strictly speaking, the correct one. The first version, however, is so widely used and accepted in spoken English that it frequently carries over into written English and few ever question it.

If I may say so, you both have an excellent command of English. Luftwaffe_109, in particular, easily surpasses many 'native English speakers' I know.

Of course, this is not to say that we should expect everyone to conform to a certain perceived standard. That would be arrogant. Nevertheless, I note with interest the many people I have met who speak and write extremely good English as their SECOND language.

Best regards to all,
panther3485

neural_dream
09-19-2005, 04:25 AM
Not really. English is not one of my first languages, but i can say for sure that the correct alternatives, widely used in spoken (very rarely in written) English, are:
"I performed a split-s. Then I returned to base."
or
"I performed a split-s; then I returned to base.",
while
"I performed a split-s, then I returned to base." is out of the question.

Alright, now i am the grammar Nazi. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif Attack!!!

Pirschjaeger
09-19-2005, 04:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by panther3485:
Hi there, waffen-79 and Luftwaffe_109
_______________________________________________
Quote:

"I performed a split-s THEN I returned to base."

Instead it should be, "I performed a split-s and THEN I returned to base.
_______________________________________________

This particular 'native English speaker' can confirm that the second version is, strictly speaking, the correct one. The first version, however, is so widely used and accepted in spoken English that it frequently carries over into written English and few ever question it.

If I may say so, you both have an excellent command of English. Luftwaffe_109, in particular, easily surpasses many 'native English speakers' I know.

Of course, this is not to say that we should expect everyone to conform to a certain perceived standard. That would be arrogant. Nevertheless, I note with interest the many people I have met who speak and write extremely good English as their SECOND language.

Best regards to all,
panther3485 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A comma could replace "and". The first example is wrong without the use of a comma or the word "and".

Fritz

Pirschjaeger
09-19-2005, 04:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by neural_dream:
Not really. English is not one of my first languages, but i can say for sure that the correct alternatives, widely used in spoken (very rarely in written) English, are:
"I performed a split-s. Then I returned to base."
or
"I performed a split-s; then I returned to base.",
while
"I performed a split-s, then I returned to base." is out of the question.

Alright, now i am the grammar Nazi. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif Attack!!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The best way would have been to say "I had performed a split-s before returning to base.". You need the auxilary verb in order to be grammatically correct.

Another example would be "Before returning to base, I had performed a split-s.".

The use of the auxilary verb is to put the two events, that happened at different times, into a clear chronological order.

The two events happened in the past and one before the other, therefor you need a past and a past participle. The past participle always has an auxilary helper. In this case, "had".

Fritz

neural_dream
09-19-2005, 04:56 AM
No, the comma isn't correct. It would be correct in a sentence like "If you choose the Wildcat, then remember to assign a key to ...", but not in our case.


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif Oh God what have i done http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif
Forgive me. I am the worst Nazi of all. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Pirschjaeger
09-19-2005, 05:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by neural_dream:
No, the comma isn't correct. It would be correct in a sentence like "If you choose the Wildcat, then remember to assign a key to ...", but not in our case.


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif Oh God what have i done http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif
Forgive me. I am the worst Nazi of all. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The correct way would be "If you choose the wildcat remember to assign a key......"

You don't need to use the word "then" in this case since it is a conditional. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

You grammar Goehring. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Fritz

Pirschjaeger
09-19-2005, 05:04 AM
IMHO, the biggest joke of all in regards to learning grammar in school is this rule:

"You cannot use a preposition at the end of a sentence."
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I got detention for my reply.

Raising my hand I asked "Sir, where did you get this idea from?"

How many of you have heard the same grammar rule from your teachers?

How many of you know why this rule has been used for so many years although logically, you know it doesn't apply to English?

Fritz

neural_dream
09-19-2005, 05:15 AM
I see. I'll never have the last word with you my friend grammar Himmler http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif. Now it's time you apologised for suggesting a while ago that <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">A comma could replace "and". The first example is wrong without the use of a comma or the word "and" </div></BLOCKQUOTE> implying that in either spoken or written form "I performed a split-s, then I returned to base." would not be incorrect. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Regards

G. Goering

Pirschjaeger
09-19-2005, 06:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by neural_dream:
I see. I'll never have the last word with you my friend grammar Himmler http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif. Now it's time you apologised for suggesting a while ago that <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">A comma could replace "and". The first example is wrong without the use of a comma or the word "and" </div></BLOCKQUOTE> implying that in either spoken or written form "I performed a split-s, then I returned to base." would not be incorrect. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Regards

G. Goering </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In written/spoken English it would be acceptable but in written/legal it would be wrong. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

The comma would be used to emphasize tone and pause.

But, for for true Nazi grammar you would use the auxilary verb as I have already explained in "Mein Kampf".

G. Himmler

neural_dream
09-19-2005, 06:13 AM
You forgot the comma before "as i have already ...".
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Keep editing. Oops, i may have to go back and edit stuff too, before you catch them. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Regards,

G. Goering


PS I don't like "But" as the beginning of a sentence, and definitely not with a comma after it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1241.gif I let you say the last word and go back to work. I am in the forum all day long http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif.

Pirschjaeger
09-19-2005, 06:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by neural_dream:
You forgot the comma before "as i have already ...".
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Regards,

G. Goering </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ha ha ha, the comma after the "but" and the repeated "for". Since you cannot fit into a cockpit of anything dangerous, I'm putting you in charge of the Luftwaffe. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

G.Hitler, formally known as G.Himmler

Pirschjaeger
09-19-2005, 06:20 AM
Dued, I tink wi nied u pach.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

neural_dream
09-19-2005, 06:20 AM
Hahahaha, how do you think I got the job. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
See ya Fritz and thanx for the nice chat. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Pirschjaeger
09-19-2005, 06:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by neural_dream:
Hahahaha, how do you think I got the job. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
See ya Fritz and thanx for the nice chat. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Was fun dude http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

MEGILE
09-19-2005, 09:23 AM
I must say I did enjoy Sir.Robin's "flowery prose" as chuck older once called them.

panther3485
09-19-2005, 10:19 AM
Hi there, neural_dream and Pirschjaeger

Just to clarify my last post, I was commenting ONLY on the two alternatives mentioned by Luftwaffe_109. I wanted to offer him some friendly support in his efforts to help somebody. I did not want to complicate the situation.

My statement that the first version is widely used but not strictly correct, while the second version is correct, still stands.

I was NOT trying to say that the second version is the ONLY correct alternative. Please do not read more into my post than I intended to say.

Aside from the above, I appreciate the value of your comments in the general sense and you have both made a worthwhile contribution to this discussion (with or without the jokes).

neural_dream, if English is not your first language (or not "one of your first"), then you also seem have a better grasp of it than many 'native English speakers' I know.

Best regards to you both,
panther3485

blindpugh
09-19-2005, 10:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WarWolfe_1:
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif Your a grammer NAZI!!!!!

English is a strange langauge, it doesn't help with all the local dialicts either.

Em Fools up north can do nothing right. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>only a southerner would sae thins lyk thaatt

Dunkelgrun
09-19-2005, 10:45 AM
What an excellent thread. I heartily approve and, more than that, realise that my own use of English grammar could do with a brush up!

The sad part is that English is my first, and almost only, language. I do possess a smattering of French, German, Italian and Lakhota (a very small smattering of the last-named) but meaningful conversations are beyond me. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Good stuff chaps,
Cheers!

Pirschjaeger
09-19-2005, 12:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by panther3485:
Hi there, neural_dream and Pirschjaeger

Just to clarify my last post, I was commenting ONLY on the two alternatives mentioned by Luftwaffe_109. I wanted to offer him some friendly support in his efforts to help somebody. I did not want to complicate the situation.

My statement that the first version is widely used but not strictly correct, while the second version is correct, still stands.

I was NOT trying to say that the second version is the ONLY correct alternative. Please do not read more into my post than I intended to say.

Aside from the above, I appreciate the value of your comments in the general sense and you have both made a worthwhile contribution to this discussion (with or without the jokes).

neural_dream, if English is not your first language (or not "one of your first"), then you also seem have a better grasp of it than many 'native English speakers' I know.

Best regards to you both,
panther3485 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I didn't even realize who had posted that originally. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Thanx for the heads-up. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Fritz

panther3485
09-20-2005, 03:46 AM
Hello Pirschjaeger,

No worries, mate! I have enjoyed the exchange with all you guys.

Best regards,
panther3485

Capt.LoneRanger
09-20-2005, 03:58 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Funny how somebody spending so much effort on putting words right uses the word "Nazi" with such ease wrongly - LOL.

B16Enk
09-20-2005, 06:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dunkelgrun:
I don't remember any English grammar lessons at school, just corrections in red all over my essays! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Cheers! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Let me guess, a 60's/early 70's child.

We were part of a brave new experiment in the UK, when they decided for some inane and totally incomprehensible reason (which is probably why the reason has never been published http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif) to cease the teaching of grammar. Even at the Grammar School I attended http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

My wife went to live and school in the 'States when 11 or 12, and her US teachers were appalled at her non-existent grammar skills.

So my English wife was taught grammar by American teachers, and runs rings around me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Aaron_GT
09-20-2005, 07:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Let me guess, a 60's/early 70's child. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm a product of the same time period and a Grammar school. We definitely learned grammar, in fact repetitively so both at primary and secondary school. Perhaps I was just lucky, although I didn't feel quite so lucky at the time!

luftluuver
09-20-2005, 09:39 AM
Dunkelgrun,

is not the use of <span class="ev_code_RED">red</span> frowned upon now in schools? Bad for the self esteem of the student. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

I took 2 English classes, grammer and literature and both were manditory subjects all the way through school. Penmanship was also emphisized.

plumps_
09-20-2005, 11:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by carguy_:
Ok so when do I type "... who`s ..." bits? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Never, because " ` " is not an apostrophe (" ' ") but a grave accent that is used on vowels in some languages: ¨ ²
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

BaldieJr
09-20-2005, 11:37 PM
I aint got time for this ****ty thread. I'm too busy countin the ****** wad of cash i got from being a network egnineer. Word.