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Beaufort-RAF
06-16-2005, 02:16 AM
Hi,

the RAF flew the B25J (called Mitchell III in the RAF) but unlike the Americans the British considered the B25 unsuitable for low level ops and operated her strictly as a conventional medium bomber, so the strafing guns were not needed.

You can see from this photograph of RAF B25J's that they don't have the blister pods or the fixed gun in the nose, there being no point carrying around the extra weight of guns they don't use.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/Beafort/RAFMitchellIIIs.jpg

With the current flyable B25 with the gun pods and the fixed gun in the glazed nose (I don't mean the defensive gun) the AI has a habit of diving down on targets to shoot at them after releasing their bombs, even from thousands of feet up and this can ruin attempts to fly historical RAF missions on the Normandy & Ardennes maps.


If we could have a sub-variant without pods to go along with the existing Pacific B25 (it could be named Mitchell III) we would have a flyable bomber suitable for RAF operations.

This just needs a simple modification of the gun armament.

It was also common for American B25J's to operate without pods.

Cheers http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/Beafort/B25JCorsicacolour.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/Beafort/B25JUSAAFItaly.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/Beafort/B25JCorsica.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/Beafort/B25JUSAAFwithcrew.jpg

Beaufort-RAF
06-16-2005, 02:16 AM
Hi,

the RAF flew the B25J (called Mitchell III in the RAF) but unlike the Americans the British considered the B25 unsuitable for low level ops and operated her strictly as a conventional medium bomber, so the strafing guns were not needed.

You can see from this photograph of RAF B25J's that they don't have the blister pods or the fixed gun in the nose, there being no point carrying around the extra weight of guns they don't use.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/Beafort/RAFMitchellIIIs.jpg

With the current flyable B25 with the gun pods and the fixed gun in the glazed nose (I don't mean the defensive gun) the AI has a habit of diving down on targets to shoot at them after releasing their bombs, even from thousands of feet up and this can ruin attempts to fly historical RAF missions on the Normandy & Ardennes maps.


If we could have a sub-variant without pods to go along with the existing Pacific B25 (it could be named Mitchell III) we would have a flyable bomber suitable for RAF operations.

This just needs a simple modification of the gun armament.

It was also common for American B25J's to operate without pods.

Cheers http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/Beafort/B25JCorsicacolour.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/Beafort/B25JUSAAFItaly.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/Beafort/B25JCorsica.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/Beafort/B25JUSAAFwithcrew.jpg

Tater-SW-
06-16-2005, 06:34 AM
Punt!

Good idea.

tater

SeaNorris
06-16-2005, 10:30 AM
I want this http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

new-fherathras
06-16-2005, 02:51 PM
this would be great! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


only difference in flight model would be very small changes in climb, acceleration and top speed

Monguse
06-17-2005, 05:07 PM
I concur on having the ability to remove the cheek guns from the B25's. It really would add to the hostorical accuracy of not only RAF bombers but MTO USA B25's as well.

That being said, since you posted some really nice photos I'd like to identify some of them.

Top to bottom:

Not sure
340th BG 486th BS SN 43-27784 6Q NOAH'S ARC
** 310th BG [379th BS or 428th BS] formation
* 340st BG 487th BS SN 43-28074 7C (Bill Mauldin’s Dog Face Art)
* 321ST BG 445TH BS SN 43-27716 **** HOUSE MOUSE

All ac marked with an * and can downloaded at http://www.warwingsart.com those with a ** are not present but their companions are available

Enjoy

'Guse

Tooz_69GIAP
06-17-2005, 11:14 PM
I'd certainly like this mod, but there would be some modelling work involved, but I'm not sure how extensive it would be.

Obviously, the cheek pods go, but I'd assume that's not not TOO big of a deal.

The fixed .50 in the nose goes, but that will require interior model changes in the nose, which could be a bit complicated - or not, what do I know?

And then the gunsight in main pit would need to go, but again I dunno how big of a deal that would be.

And then there's the flight model changes. Oleg would have to get the correct flight data for these stripped Mitchells. There'd be CoG changes, airspeed differences, different drag coefficients, etc, etc.

I doubt we'll see the stripped Mitchells, but they would be cool!

ImpStarDuece
06-17-2005, 11:42 PM
It would be very nice to have a Mitchell III, particularly as I am (STILL) working on a Normandy/ OPeration Diver/ OPeration Crossbow/ D-Day/ Falaise Gap Campaign. The Mitchell II would fit right in there.

However, I doubt it's something that is likely to happen soon, or at all.

As Tooz rightly pointed out there dwould need to be quite a few changes;

1) External Modeling changes - maybe the easiest part
2) Internal modelling changes - cockpit and bombadier station alterations, which are often very time consuming, even with only small alrerations
3) Flight model and Damage model changes- the CoG would be pushed back, less drag, new DM for the nose section, other less obvious differences as well.
4) AI changes- youd need to reclassify the Mitchell 3 as a level bomber, program it into the game.


It's not like the Mustang 3 or P-38 late where the internal and external models are identical and the only thing requiring alteration is the FM. Redoing the B-25 into Mitchell III would actually be a pretty major undertaking.

Maybe if there is a modeller out there with sufficient information and talent and time, they could petition Oleg to release the model to make some changes.

charlielima
06-19-2005, 11:23 PM
If ya'll get can get those 50s of the cheeks of your plane can I have them? I fiercly want a PBJ or B-25H. V/R, CL

Beaufort-RAF
06-27-2005, 06:46 AM
Aha! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I've been doing some experimenting in the FMB with some interesting results. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

The AI B25C has a fixed gun in the nose (but no gun pods) & I assumed even the single gun would make it behave as a strafer, but this is not the case.

I've made missions with many targets to attack and sure enough the B25J with pods blasts away with the fixed guns.

But the B25C with the single gun doesn't straf.

So this is it.

A sub variant of the B25J, simply without the gun pods (which would require no internal modelling changes) would provide a 'pure bomber' without a heavy ground attack capability.

As can be seen in the pics of the USAAF aircraft (and many others that are available) this would be a historically accurate modification. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

ImpStarDuece
06-27-2005, 06:57 AM
Good news and nice testing!

Fingers crossed for another B-25 flyable, just don't get your hopes up!