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acer1939
09-02-2008, 05:18 PM
Hi
I'm a newbie and sorry if this is the wrong spot to post. But wanted advice on the above stick. I know it's not the best but am having great difficulty getting it to work on IL 2 I have used all the advice on http://www.airwarfare.com/tech/sticks.htm#010

to calibrate. Is it the stick being poor or am I not getting something right. I have adjusted all the controls and axis using Oleg and crazyivan settings etc and nothing seems to work. Planes handle attrociously.

Help appreciated

acer1939
09-02-2008, 05:18 PM
Hi
I'm a newbie and sorry if this is the wrong spot to post. But wanted advice on the above stick. I know it's not the best but am having great difficulty getting it to work on IL 2 I have used all the advice on http://www.airwarfare.com/tech/sticks.htm#010

to calibrate. Is it the stick being poor or am I not getting something right. I have adjusted all the controls and axis using Oleg and crazyivan settings etc and nothing seems to work. Planes handle attrociously.

Help appreciated

Cajun76
09-02-2008, 08:05 PM
First of all, welcome.

The problem you stated is that "Planes handle attrociously."

This simulation/game is propbaly the most realistic you've tried. Torque, wind, gyroscopic action are all modeled.

What this means is that the plane will almost never fly striaght and level at all power settings. They need to be trimmed, and don't react well to hamfisting the controls, ie. pushing full forward and full left or right.

Until you get a feel for the a/c your are flying, be gentle, plan ahead. A good plane to start with is the Bf-109F4. Good balance and forgiving.

Some more specifics would be welcome to help you further. Hope this helps, good luck and

acer1939
09-02-2008, 09:40 PM
Thanks Cajun, I will give the plane recommended a try and see if its any more stable than those so far. I have just tried a single mission Russian front flying a Spitfire and it was a lot more predicatble if the overall sim was slower than previous attempts. There seems quite a range of speed. Guess I've got a lot to learn - that's what makes it enjoyable. Will come back with specifics on stick, but using IL 2 1945 version V 407M and I've now set all the stick controls to default. I find the planes fly better using the ctrl F1 keys view - but can't figure out why? Also use auto pilot when looking as though out of control - cheating?

Cajun76
09-02-2008, 11:22 PM
There's also a sticky at the top of the forum, very good place to start.

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/9121094645

This recent topic addresses trim from a beginners point of view.

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/9701069386

Some planes have no trim, while others only have elevator trim, and still others have all 3 axis covered. Your not doing anything wrong if the plane drifts or rolls with no input, or tries to climb all the time. Higher speeds means more lift, and since we can't change the shape of the wing, trim is used to relieve stick pressure for the pilot.

I would focus first on just flying around, smoothly. Pick any a/c that strikes your fancy, you may already have a favorite. Fly it gently, and as your skill and confidence grows you can gradually get more aggressive. Pay attention to the wind and shuddering, it will let you know when your wing is approaching a stall. Some a/c give more warning than others. Just like anything worth doing, your patience will be rewarded.

WTE_Ibis
09-03-2008, 02:38 AM
Be warned, once you start there's no way back.
You can check out but you can never leave.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif


Got another one. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif



.

acer1939
09-03-2008, 05:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cajun76:
There's also a sticky at the top of the forum, very good place to start.

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/9121094645

This recent topic addresses trim from a beginners point of view.

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/9701069386

Some planes have no trim, while others only have elevator trim, and still others have all 3 axis covered. Your not doing anything wrong if the plane drifts or rolls with no input, or tries to climb all the time. Higher speeds means more lift, and since we can't change the shape of the wing, trim is used to relieve stick pressure for the pilot.

I would focus first on just flying around, smoothly. Pick any a/c that strikes your fancy, you may already have a favorite. Fly it gently, and as your skill and confidence grows you can gradually get more aggressive. Pay attention to the wind and shuddering, it will let you know when your wing is approaching a stall. Some a/c give more warning than others. Just like anything worth doing, your patience will be rewarded. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Thanks again Cajun,

There is a lot more to this than meets the eye. I have had a quick look at the nuggets item and will study this in detail. Also now I know what trim is this seems to be what needs adjusting. I have been using one a/c as recommended - Spitfire VB N1 in defensive patrol single mission (USSR). I have put difficulty settings on easy and normal to see difference. Now getting used to handling one a/c. Any ideas how I can change the trim on this a/c?

Cajun76
09-04-2008, 01:40 AM
Your welcome, always glad to help.

Well, Spitfire is pretty good choice, and the Vb 1941 does have trim control over all 3 axis.

You'll have to map keys in controls to use trim. My personal method is to use the 4 arrow keys and the ,&lt; &gt;. keys.

Up arrow for nose (elevator) down
down for elevator up

left and right arrows for yaw (rudder)

and the others for roll (aileron)

Part of the reason for this setup is that while setting up trim should be intuitive, there's times when you want to cancel all trim adjustments, such as landing or perhaps combat, or mismanaging the trim settings and starting fresh.

To that end for me, canceling trim for elevator is Ctrl Up, for rudder is Ctrl Left and aileron is / which is right beside ,&lt;&gt;.

So it's rather fast to reset, because sometimes it's a liability.

The thing to remember about trim is that its a pilot assist. Changing power, attitude, altitude and other factors all require changes is trim. In real life. Here, not so much. Rudder can also be used to counter roll, that should be your first method.

Once your proficient, you'll be able to tap in the correct trim for cruising, or combat. In my beloved P-47 I usually set it once and mostly forget it until landing, although there's a slight difference in trim settings between summer and winter maps. That's how detailed the sim/game is.

It's definitely deeper than meets the eye, mostly because so few products out there have so much detail. There's no "super moves" or power ups or aircraft that will guarantee victory, so the rewards of sticking with it really make it worthwhile.

A good way to practice is to set up some friendly transports (DC-3/C-47 are good) in Quick Mission Builder and fly some loose formation and then practice attacking from rear, above, below, sides and even front. The Nuggets Guide explains this in more detail. Good luck and

acer1939
09-06-2008, 02:55 PM
Again thanks Cajun,

A lot to learn but you IL 2 afficionados seem a well versed and friendly bunch - so can't wait to get a little more up to speed. I will be implementing the trim suggestions including the keys (great idea to have different settings for combat etc) and also try one or two different a/c. Spits as already mentioned, I have just tried a BF 109? and will try your P47. I will also see if I can get a CH stick as I'm pretty sure my cougar is a cheapo - do you think it might also add to improvements? Any ideas what I should be paying for a CH and which model (perhaps second hand)?

I will digest the nuggets, try the DC practice missions and practice then come back with the results...hope to see you soon in combat.

Ps re online combat, I read somewhere that it's possible to view others online missions or even practice away from the frontline - Any ideas?

Acer1939

Aaron_GT
09-06-2008, 03:04 PM
There are some online training units. I can't remember the links (someone might) and online training might be useful, especially when you want to develop your air combat skills before going into a fighting server (some dogfight servers don't teach you the best skills right away as they are so unstructured).

acer1939
09-06-2008, 03:27 PM
Thanks Aaron - yes I think I read about flight school? maybe that is one. I am a bit intimidated about going online (which won't be for a while anyway) but I thought it might be useful to see what goes on?

Stingray333
09-06-2008, 03:43 PM
There is a great online flight/training school called Joint Ops, www.joint-ops.com, (http://www.joint-ops.com,) they have their introductory "Basic Flight School" coming up in October, its very good! The course is 2.5 weeks, 3 nights a week with each class being 3 hours.. lots of flying and you learn a lot!

Stingray

Fehler
09-06-2008, 04:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by acer1939:
I am a bit intimidated about going online (which won't be for a while anyway) but I thought it might be useful to see what goes on? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I believe you actually learn more about flying online than off. The reason for this is that the off-line AI are generic. They all tend to fly the same way and they can be predicted. You cant predict a human pilot.

Also, off-line they do not succomb to G force and their planes never overheat because of the simplified AI models.

The great thing about this sim is the one thing real WWII pilots did not have a luxury with: learning from (most) of their mistakes. Here ya get shot down, you hit refly. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

We all get shot down. With experience, you get shot down less. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

So, my advice is work through the examples in the nugget's guide, gain some basic understanding on energy management, and go put your new found skills to the test. Record tracks and evaluate yourself.

Then go back and do it over and over again.

Oh, BTW: Hope you don't miss that soul you just lost when you started playing this game! LOL!

acer1939
09-06-2008, 04:43 PM
Thanks Stingray and Fehler (German for mistake?) which I am making many of right now. How addictive can this get. Yep as well as a lost soul...what about the hours...I intend to do an hor and end up doing....well I'm sure you all know. Anyway thanks for the tips and will be waiting for flight school.

This might seem a dumb question I have just been trying to trim the a/c - (BF 109) and I've now got the mapping keys (e.g. trim for Elevator is ctrl down arrow etc) but how does one actually apply this to the a/c? Do you do this whilst flying a mission? and do you just keep hitting the keys for all the elevator, aileron and rudder controls 'til the plane flies straight and narrow? Not clear.

Thanks again - Want to get this right and beat some of you guys!!

Crash_Moses
09-06-2008, 06:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by acer1939:
Thanks Stingray and Fehler (German for mistake?) which I am making many of right now. How addictive can this get. Yep as well as a lost soul...what about the hours...I intend to do an hor and end up doing....well I'm sure you all know. Anyway thanks for the tips and will be waiting for flight school.

This might seem a dumb question I have just been trying to trim the a/c - (BF 109) and I've now got the mapping keys (e.g. trim for Elevator is ctrl down arrow etc) but how does one actually apply this to the a/c? Do you do this whilst flying a mission? and do you just keep hitting the keys for all the elevator, aileron and rudder controls 'til the plane flies straight and narrow? Not clear.

Thanks again - Want to get this right and beat some of you guys!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, you apply trim while flying. I'm constantly changing trim as I progress through a mission and it's absolutely essential while level bombing (click the link in my sig for more on that). There isn't any textual indicator to indicate how much trim you've applied so you just have to keep hitting the trim key until you have it where you want it.

However you can use your cockpit instruments to judge your trimmed condition. For example, while cruising I'll apply rudder trim until the ball in the slip/turn indicator is centered. For aileron trim you'll need to keep your eye on your artificial horizon for an indication of how trim has affected your flight. And for elevator trim I use the climb indicator.

Be warned though, there is a slight delay between the time you press the trim key and when the plane responds. Wait a few seconds and then hit the trim key again if neccessary. Every plane is different but if you spend enough time in a certain one you'll eventually get a good idea of how much trim to apply in different conditions.

S!

acer1939
09-06-2008, 06:13 PM
I'm on it...

appreciated crash moses

Skoshi Tiger
09-06-2008, 07:37 PM
The other week I was flying in a Spitfire IX. Right from take off I couldn't get the plane trimmed. The nose was wobbling all around, either wing dropping when I turned. It was horrible. I flew around for about 10 minutes trying to sort it out. Extreamely frustrating!
....
..
.
Then I went to external view and saw that my rudder was missing! I must have been strafed during take off and haddn't noticed it!

D'Oh http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif